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The rules for the Warpsmith's curse are not exactly clear - can anyone help me out?

1) Does the curse need a line of sight to hit an enemy vehicle? It says to use the Warpsmith's ballistic skill, so it would seem to make seem to need LoS - but it's not actually a shooting attack as far as I can see, it doesn't cause any direct damage, and nothing in the description says I need to see the target...

2) As per above, if it is a shooting attack does the enemy get to make a cover save against the effect?

Looks as if you need to see/roll to hit.

No cover saves as you do not cause a wound/glance/pen

OK, a follow up question would be whether I can snap-shot with it, and so use it if pinned, aiming from a fast-moving rhino, or hit a flyer?

You do not need LOS ive been wondering the same thing but because it dose not specificly say "this is a ranged/shooting/both attack" or state that "needs line of sight" you do not need to worry about it...

Hehe barrage tanks beware ...

 Hedgehog wrote:
OK, a follow up question would be whether I can snap-shot with it, and so use it if pinned, aiming from a fast-moving rhino, or hit a flyer?

I'd say yes to snap shot.
Edit: No as Pinned is Gone to ground
As long as you may make snap shots.
Again, a snap shot.


It seems like what you were trying to ask is can it be fired as a snap shot.

I see no reason it can't atm



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 happygolucky wrote:
You do not need LOS ive been wondering the same thing but because it dose not specificity say "this is a ranged/shooting/both attack" or state that "needs line of sight" you do not need to worry about it...

Hehe barrage tanks beware ...

Still say you need to draw LOS to the vehicle for this to work.
Reading Ballistic Skill kinda implies that

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 Hedgehog wrote:
OK, a follow up question would be whether I can snap-shot with it, and so use it if pinned, aiming from a fast-moving rhino, or hit a flyer?

I'd say yes to snap shot.
Yes, again snap shot
As long as you may make snap shots.
Again, a snap shot.


It seems like what you were trying to ask is can it be fired as a snap shot.

I see no reason it can't atm



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 happygolucky wrote:
You do not need LOS ive been wondering the same thing but because it dose not specificity say "this is a ranged/shooting/both attack" or state that "needs line of sight" you do not need to worry about it...

Hehe barrage tanks beware ...

Still say you need to draw LOS to the vehicle for this to work.

I Dont see anywhere where I need to draw LOS from it just simply states to hit but that is not the same as a shooting attack for an example you could say that you were going "to hit" your own units for an effect to happen and that would just be wording for it saying you need to roll to hit your own unit, I do not see anywhere in the rulebook or codex that states that if it says "to hit" means "is a shooting attack", nor can I see it stating in the entry of the rule or unit entry "requires LOS in order use the cursed effect".

Need to change one thing, Cannot use if pinned.

Units can snapshoot while Gone to Ground, P18

 Hedgehog wrote:
Units can snapshoot while Gone to Ground, P18

Now read the Warpsmith Entry pg 34 C:CSM
"The Warpsmith cannot use this ability
if he has gone to ground or is falling back"

Didnt know that JD, but I have allowed it to be used on my flyers before as you roll to hit, and I would totally agree you cannot use it without LOS,

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 Hedgehog wrote:
Units can snapshoot while Gone to Ground, P18

Now read the Warpsmith Entry pg 34 C:CSM
"The Warpsmith cannot use this ability
if he has gone to ground or is falling back"

Ah ha, that'll teach me to read things thoroughly next time

It gets me all the time, this time too as I had to correct myself.

While you roll to hit using BS, nothing states this is a shooting attack therefore you do not need LOS - currently. GW may change that.

Your right, nothing states is as a shooting attack but it is alluded to it is done in the shooting phase, rolled to hit using BS, it states instead of firing his weapon (only thing that could suggest it isnt a shooting attack).

RAW it doesnt say you need LOS I personnaly wouldnt play it as that, imo will get a FAQ at some point.

Just imagine " YE Chaos gods, bring forth the power of the warp and curse te something or other just over the other side of the building, no I do not know what it is but I am sure there something other there".


if it was a area effect I would have no problem with it but targeting one specifc model, with one attack, if there anything else in the game that does this and doesnt need LOS

Ok, slight revival to this thread because I wanted to add a question. Can the Warpsmith target a different unit (with his curse vehicle) than the one his attached squad is shooting at?

For instance if I attach him to a squad of obliterators do the oblits have to target the same vehicle that he is cursing?

Yes; the warpsmith isnt the one firing, the vehicle is, and his power is not a shooting attack (from memory)

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Yes; the warpsmith isnt the one firing, the vehicle is, and his power is not a shooting attack (from memory)

Not a shooting attack, but it is in lieu of shooting. It does use a to-hit roll using BS as well.

Still doesnt mean it follows the rules for shooting, as it doesnt pick a target - again, from memory, loaned out my codex....

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Still doesnt mean it follows the rules for shooting, as it doesnt pick a target - again, from memory, loaned out my codex....

It does pick a target, you choose a vehicle within 18" of him, roll to hit, curse if successful.

Granted, I don't know if I'd call it a shooting attack though as that would allow him to use it while embarked (unlike Anrakyr with an almost identical ability). It also doesn't appear to need LOS.

Choosing a vehicle != picking a target as per the shooting rules.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Choosing a vehicle != picking a target as per the shooting rules.

Sorry, but I really fail to see the difference here. You're limited in unit type you can choose from but you're still choosing a unit, within a range, and rolling to hit. There are plenty of other examples of shooting attacks that don't require LOS and/or force a limited target choice (I believe seeker missiles is the first example that comes to mind).

The shooting sequence rules are the base line that all units must follow, but there are obviously some units that can work around parts of, or all of, this base rule.

Also, if it can be fired as a snap shot then it must be a shooting attack.

The difference is one is stated as a target, as per the shooting rules, and the other isnt.

Running is in lieu of shooting. IS running a shooting attack now?

So if it is a shooting attack, is it assault, rapid fire heavy sqlvo, orordnance?

nosferatu1001 wrote:
The difference is one is stated as a target, as per the shooting rules, and the other isnt.

Running is in lieu of shooting. IS running a shooting attack now?

Of course it is! Be careful of dangerous terrain and its "Gets Hot! (tha feets!)" Special rule.

But yeah, on a serious note/question, if it's not a shooting attack (which I'm not convinced that it is) does that mean it hits flyers on a normal ballistic skill roll, or can it even hit them at all?

nosferatu1001 wrote:The difference is one is stated as a target, as per the shooting rules, and the other isnt.

Running is in lieu of shooting. IS running a shooting attack now?

? Not sure what running has to do with this. Sorry, I shouldn't have said earlier "in lieu of a shooting attack" I should have quoted the book directly "Instead of firing his weapons".

And no, sorry, still don't see the difference between "pick a target" and "pick only a vehicle as a target for this ability". You're comparing longhand descriptions to shorthand descriptions, they both do mean the same thing. Just as with long hand written weapon stats vs. profile weapon stats.

Happyjew wrote:So if it is a shooting attack, is it assault, rapid fire heavy salvo, ordnance?

Exactly! So that must mean it can't be fired as a snap shot, right? Now with your question in mind, does this also mean the warpsmith (and his unit, if attached) can't assault the cursed vehicle the same turn if he wanted?

It might not be a shooting attack, but it occurs in place of his shooting attacks. As the Warpsmith doesn't have permission to target a separate unit, I'd lean towards RAW is that he has to curse the target his unit is firing at. I've yet to see an ability that allowed you to your attacks at separate targets that didn't specifically say that it does.

There is no RAW requirement to target the same unit; it is not a shooting attack, and only shooting carries the requirement to target the same unit as the rest of the units shooting.

I thought the rules wording was pretty clear.

Instead of shooting a ranged weapon, choose an enemy vehicle within 18". Once you have chosen your vehicle (target), roll to hit using the warpsmiths BS (so 2 to hit). On a hti the vehcile is cursed.

I would guess that they put in the BS thing specifically to avoid all the arguments that came with Anrakyrs power (it uses BS therefore it can be used from a vehicle?).

Also, as you are not actually shooting a weapon atthe flyer (no S or Ap value) I would say you would still hit on 2s

 Praxiss wrote:
I would guess that they put in the BS thing specifically to avoid all the arguments that came with Anrakyrs power (it uses BS therefore it can be used from a vehicle?).

It is not a warp fire/PSA so not, it can't.

Look, it's a special rule, not a shooting attack. Special Rules do not require LoS by definition. Special Rules that DO require LoS specify that (ie-Master of Ordnance). Similarity to shooting attacks because of ballistic skill doesn't "imply" additional rules or restrictions to the Special Rule. There are rules that apply to anything that roles to hit or uses ballistic skill, and these would effect the Curse, but none of this makes it a shooting attack (which has and therefore requires specific designation).

My 2 cents anyway.