are tau to "good" for 40k?

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Grey Templar**

Anfauglir wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:
They simply don't have the numbers needed to resist the attacks of other races.

The Daemocles Gulf crusade illustrates this. It was a very small imperial crusade, yet it managed to pierce deep into the Tau empire. They only left because there were more important threats then some puny alien empire.

There's a few issues, here, starting with that being a very Imperial-centric take on it. Let's look at things a little more evenly. First, the Damocles Gulf Crusade proved that the Tau do indeed have the numbers and the capability of standing up to its galactic neighbours. It may have been a small Imperial effort, but that's all that the IoM can afford to send their way, meaning that the Tau are already powerful enough to fight them off. Why? Because the things that are impeding the Imperium from turning and facing this new threat sufficiently aren't going away any time soon. In fact, they're only going to get worse, and the Imperium itself is no closer to halting or reversing its own decline.

Second, you say "yet it managed to pierce deep into the Tau Empire", whereas a more accurate assessment would be; "yet it was halted on the very first major Sept of the Empire it encountered". At the time of the Crusade, the Empire's borders didn't really reach beyond the Del'yth system. The Gulf region and the Imperial worlds just beyond were being probed by Water Caste trade and political advisors/negotiators, and Del'yth itself was more a centre for trade and commerce in the Empire. Therefore, the Imperial Crusaders smashed their way through some human secessionists and minor trade fleets before hitting a wall at the first sign of Tau space/territory proper. They didn't get deep by any means. After Del'yth, they would need to conquer both Vior'la and Sa'cea, whilst keeping their flanks secure from the Gulf and the Perdus Rift regions, maintaining a constant and stable supply line. Both these Septs are major, military population centres, providing the Empire with its most skilled and numerous supply of Fire Warriors. This would need to be done before an assault on the Tau's core systems (including its homeworld) could even begin to be conceptualised, and would need successive waves of Crusaders (troops, ships, supplies) and perhaps a decade or more of campaigning, at least. Lastly, the orders that called for the recall and redeployment of all Eastern-based forces in light of Behemoth was only half the reason the DGC failed, the other half being that they were caught in a stalemate on Del'yth with little hope of securing it for further advancement, let alone any chance of launching new offensives into deeper, more heavily contested zones of Tau space.

All in all, the DGC was a tough lesson for both sides. The Imperium, in its ignorance and arrogance, set off thinking its meagre force, that soon found itself spread thin with little to no supply line to call on, facing an alien race they had vastly, vastly underestimated, would be enough to quell this small, upstart xenos realm. The Tau, at last, caught a glimpse of what the Imperium's true, militaristic and highly xenophobic face looked like, and learnt that the galaxy was a much wider and much darker place, and that their continual spheres of expansion will not come so much through prosperity, trade and peaceful negotiation, but through much, much bitter bloodshed.

Again, its no surprise the Crusade was stopped on a major sept world(which was almost exterminated) because it was a fething tiny crusade. Only a few IG regiments, a handful of Space Marines, and a couple Titans.

The fact that such a small crusade almost got a Sept world, and a buch of other planets, just illustrates what would happen if the Imperium launched a real crusade. Something having thousands of IG regiments, several full chapters, and a couple Titan Legions.

Of course this will never happen because the Tau just arn't a major threat.

The Gulf Crusade was like the Imperium scratching an annoying itch and then being distracted by something more important. The Tau, in their simplicity, think that the crusade was a major flexing of the Imperium's muscle. When it truth it was nothing.

**nomotog**

1068SCP wrote:
I love how people are unironically stating the Tau have more plot armor than Space Marines. Next you're going to tell me that the Orks are the Mary Sues of the franchise.

There are people who think that too. I have heard orks called Mary sue a lot. (40k is invested with mary sues though, so whatever.)

**1hadhq**

jwr wrote:
.

Come on, it's not like the Tau have a "rainbow gun" that fills your CSM's helmet with butterflies and happy thoughts.

May I point out, I is no traitor...

But additionally they have "happy thougths" for their vespids it seems..
*ducks*

BoomWolf wrote:
1hadhq wrote:

Take away that plot-armor and the Tau are down in seconds.

Fluff-wise Tau firewarrios, while not as genetically mighty, and not as well armored, pack standard rifles that make space marines heavy weapons look bad in comparison.

Crisis suits pack more firepower each then a squad of tactical marines.

Heck, the "heavy infantry" railgun (devestator equivilant) is, by fluff, able to take down multiple takes by shot if aim correctly, and even kill entire platoons of enenmy soldiers just flying next to them.

Feel free to join Archonate on his fan-course. Just don't expect me to take such "but we have x and y and z " as a serious answer. We know how these debates end, right?

Zweischneid wrote:
1hadhq wrote:

Take away that plot-armor and the Tau are down in seconds.
But we know they will be kept because:

Take away ... <snip>

Etc.. .

If one switches into FAN-mode a reply about plot armor is in order in my book. So, context with the post i have quoted would help you. I didn't say its a Tau - only feature.

Anfauglir wrote:
Something which is equally applicable to every single one of 40K's races.

See above.

Anfauglir wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:
They simply don't have the numbers needed to resist the attacks of other races.

The Daemocles Gulf crusade illustrates this. It was a very small imperial crusade, yet it managed to pierce deep into the Tau empire. They only left because there were more important threats then some puny alien empire.

There's a few issues, here, ..

Yes, first its D a l yth

Second:

Anfauglir wrote:
The Tau, at last, caught a glimpse of what the Imperium's true, militaristic and highly xenophobic face looked like, and learnt that the galaxy was a much wider and much darker place, and that their continual spheres of expansion will not come so much through prosperity, trade and peaceful negotiation, but through much, much bitter bloodshed.

The issue of the Tau is, they don't take the info about others seriously. Rogue Traders told them about the IoM. Did they listen? Of course not. Because its easier to stick with your own idea of the Galaxy. Another thing they share with many others.

**Grey Templar**

I can never remember how its spelled

**Ronin_eX**

I think Tau largely suffer from the problems of Necrons and Dark Eldar. The three combine to make the newest races to the 40k verse (yes, some are over a decade old by now). But the problem is basically that, like the others, when they were initially introduced they were tossed in and welded on as a basic concept. Then, instead of building them from the ground up as a fixture in 40k, the basic concept was just piled on with a bunch of cruft. I think the Tau could fit in to 40k quite well. On the face they are an Orwellian nightmare that works nicely as the "in any other universe, they would be the evil empire" foil. But their background is shallow and often seesaws in tone. One minute mentioning how they would crumple if a larger galactic power sneezes and the next blunting a 'Nid hive fleet without taking casualties.

Like the Necrons and the Dark Eldar their fluff needs to evolve and grow in to 40k. They need to focus more and take the basic concept and actually figure out where it fits in the grand scheme of things. I have know doubt that the Tau could work, but right now they feel just like the other new races of 40k. Underdeveloped, anemic and out of place. I hope their next codex does for them what the Dark Eldar codex did for that army.

**spears**

Anyone read asimovs foundation books? The tau kinda feel like an eldar version of the first foundation.

**Zweischneid**

spears wrote:
Anyone read asimovs foundation books? The tau kinda feel like an eldar version of the first foundation.

#

The "1000-year plan" was pretty much the direct inspiration for the Tau Empire. A "fail-safe" / "safety-net" that would mitigate the chaos from the "inevitable/foretold" fall of the big galactic Empire.

I vaguely remember even reading an interview reference on this inspiration way back when, but I couldn't ever find it on the net. Maybe I was just imagining it.

Either way, the fit is of course perfect, especially with all the shenanigans going on around the Tau Empire's creation... conveniently shielding Warp Storm, sudden appearance of Ethereals from thin air, etc.. ,etc..

Likewise, I like to entertain the (entirely unsupported) possibility their might be more artificial "Tau Empires" out there from other more-or-less civilized races who got turbo-boosted to the "seriously-space-faring" level by whoever is behind the Tau. If the Tau are a civilization artificially accelerated (and controlled via the Ethereal-proxies)... sort of a mirror to the Emperors Space Marines/Primarch programme but infinitely more vast in scale ... than there's little that would stop the "creators" behind the Tau to do it again.. and again.. and again..

**RegalPhantom**

blood lance wrote:
There's also the stories of Tau Concentration Camps and the Tau's assassination of one of their own commanders (Brightsword) to avoid a political catastrophe which sort of already happened.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sigvatr wrote:
LoneLictor wrote:

1) I doubt that. Progress usually ends badly in 40k. Look at the Necrons

Uhm...what. Necrons used to be a civilization where everyone died in their youngsters and now, they are will-less yet immortal and unstoppable machines led by their dark gods, the C'tan. I don't see how that turned against the Necrons though as they were able to strip from their mortal bodies and became ever-faithful and ever-living (pun intended) servants to their gods.

In the end, they became far mightier than before and are now much closer to their ultimate goal: destroying all life there is.

Actually, its even better than that. They are the only faction to successfully kill a god. Not even that, a selection of Gods. They are now one of the only factions that can afford to have its own inner political systems and conflicts on grand scales and does it all the time. They view organizing their files as not a boring task, but a way of using up the infinite years they have to use. Seem more advanced to me.

I know that this is a late reply, but it's even better than you make it out to be. With the new fluff, the Necrons are not only immortal, they have not only defeated their former oppressors (who were gods on par with, if not more powerful than, the Chaos Gods), but they now keep them locked up and use them for Pokemon battles. They also get to fly around in Space Croissants and kill anybody they don't particularly like. There is even an Overlord who spends his time popping around the galaxy screwing with people and taking anything remotely shiny that isn't tied down. 'Crons have it pretty good.

**Vaktathi**

The Tau are only "good" by the standards of 40k, by which the next nicest guys are the totalitarian military theocracy that treats human life as the most abundant and expendable resource it has and the *really* bad guy are literally armies of daemons from a universe of unreality and terror.

The Tau's greater good seems like a laudible, high minded goal, they want everyone to work together towards peace and prosperity and the promise of a better future. But you'll do it their way on their terms and they're more than willing to bomb your planet from orbit, right down to the bedrock, if you don't go along with the plan. You *WILL* join the greater good, you *WILL* work together under the helpful guidance of the Ethereal caste. You do the job you are assigned and have no say in the affairs of state or governance and relatively little to say about what you do.

Now, by 40k standards, that's almost sickeningly cute. By everyone else's standards, it's a very 1984/Brave New World/Stepford-y type deal that's very dark and dystopian.

**PullsyJr**

From the tone of those who answer "yes" (the Tau are too good for 40k) it seems that one of the reasons you don't like these guys is because they're new. Talking about the Democles Crusade it has been posited that if the IoM went all out the Tau wouldn't stand a chance. Fair enough - I don't think you're wrong. But then the argument goes down the slope of "anything new would die immediately" and this would stagnate the game as well as the setting.

In saying that, I really do think the Tau background needs a lot more work. They ARE the realtive good guys who always lead with offers of capitulation rather than just shooting things. The GW stories give some hints at a mean streak, but it's never really explored.

However my question becomes "What is wrong with having a good faction?" It would need some careful and very well articulated background (of which the current stuff is neither) but why can there not be an agent for hope in the universe? We're talking about a game that explores the 'endless possibilities of the infinites of space' yet the argument is that we should not use that possiblity. I understand that 40k is 'the Grim-Dark (TM)', but EVERY race fights with hope of salvation/victory/conquest/whatever. Even the Emperor went into his first crusade with the goal of peace; would have achieved it too if it wasn't for Horus. So should the pre-Heresy setting be looked down on because it was all for... well... the greater good?

Not that I'm saying there needs to be a Rainbows and Unicorns faction - having a dark side is very nice. :-)

Personally I just like the idea of a race who is technologically advanced and still advancing, poking holes in armour with their guns. As I said before I really do think their background could use a fair bit of (non-Ward [ie, not completely spastic]) expansion.

**Atheos**

1hadhq wrote:

Atheos wrote:

Also... communism isn't evil it's never REALLY been done or taken in proper context to be executed correctly.

Deal with the fall-out of attempts at communism like we do in europe and you start to think otherwise..

Still a lot of the Tau fluff doesn't fit into the franchise as well as it could, so the question if they are "too good" may return again and again until they are "updated" for 6th ed. Which may happen so just wait where they go...

You could easily put that down to totalitarianism/fascism, sticking a label on it even though it doesn't fit what you're doing doesn't make it that thing.

At least that's what I've taken from actually reading the Manifesto in it's historical context, etc, etc.

As for the Tau stuff... I'm sure there will be a lot of new fluff in their book (HOPEFULLY... been forever since we got some) so I'm sure some stuff will stick out that makes them less goody goody. A lot of stuff has happened in the intervening years

**IcedAnimals**

It really just depends on how the tau are written. If the next codex focuses more on their enslavement of other races. More on the mind control of their own species. More on the tau's own civil war with their farsight rebellion and his reasoning for it.

If the author writes them with their "grim dark" nature instead of their "good of the galaxy" spin then the tau will fit right in. Also please don't start the whole tau vs other factions discussion in here. Neither side will ever see the other sides point. It doesn't matter that tau plasma technology puts the imperiums to shame. It doesn't matter that there are more humans in a single hive city than in an entire tau sept. Neither side will win this arguement and its off topic.

**KingDeath**

IcedAnimals wrote:
It really just depends on how the tau are written. If the next codex focuses more on their enslavement of other races. More on the mind control of their own species. More on the tau's own civil war with their farsight rebellion and his reasoning for it.

If the author writes them with their "grim dark" nature instead of their "good of the galaxy" spin then the tau will fit right in. Also please don't start the whole tau vs other factions discussion in here. Neither side will ever see the other sides point. It doesn't matter that tau plasma technology puts the imperiums to shame. It doesn't matter that there are more humans in a single hive city than in an entire tau sept. Neither side will win this arguement and its off topic.

I disagree. While some darker aspects are ok it could be argued that the Tau would lose much of their rather unique appeal if you overdo the grimdark with them.
Some people do not like them for their fluff but that's ok. I dislike Spacewolves for the same reason but that's no reason to completely change a faction's entire fluff.

**AnomanderRake**

nomotog wrote:
1068SCP wrote:
I love how people are unironically stating the Tau have more plot armor than Space Marines. Next you're going to tell me that the Orks are the Mary Sues of the franchise.

There are people who think that too. I have heard orks called Mary sue a lot. (40k is invested with mary sues though, so whatever.)

...Everyone in 40k is a Mary Sue because the vast majority of the fluff about any race is propaganda written from that race's perspective...

Automatically Appended Next Post:

IcedAnimals wrote:
It really just depends on how the tau are written. If the next codex focuses more on their enslavement of other races. More on the mind control of their own species. More on the tau's own civil war with their farsight rebellion and his reasoning for it.

If the author writes them with their "grim dark" nature instead of their "good of the galaxy" spin then the tau will fit right in. Also please don't start the whole tau vs other factions discussion in here. Neither side will ever see the other sides point. It doesn't matter that tau plasma technology puts the imperiums to shame. It doesn't matter that there are more humans in a single hive city than in an entire tau sept. Neither side will win this arguement and its off topic.

You're missing the point of the Tau. Just because they tell you that they're on a crusade to bring peace to the galaxy doesn't mean they're nice people, that that's they're actual objective, or that they're not generally just as nasty and evil as anyone else, all it means is that they're cloaking their objectives behind an illusion of righteousness, just like a lot of people in the Imperium. Based on what I've read they're a militant Orwellian dystopia using manifest destiny to unify their citizens behind the objective of going out and conquering the rest of the galaxy. They're no different from the Imperium, except that they're willing to make slaves of other races instead of shooting them on sight.

**nomotog**

AnomanderRake wrote:
nomotog wrote:
1068SCP wrote:
I love how people are unironically stating the Tau have more plot armor than Space Marines. Next you're going to tell me that the Orks are the Mary Sues of the franchise.

There are people who think that too. I have heard orks called Mary sue a lot. (40k is invested with mary sues though, so whatever.)

...Everyone in 40k is a Mary Sue because the vast majority of the fluff about any race is propaganda written from that race's perspective...

I don't think that's the reason. Most of the fluff dosen't come from their own perspective it comes from the IoM. I think it's just the writing style for the setting on it's own. Not that it's a huge problem though. It seems to work.

**reaper with no name**

Yes, they are good for the setting, because they demonstrate why the Imperium is the way it is.

The Tau aren't "better" than the Imperium. They simply aren't in a desperate situation. The Imperium doesn't have it's citizens working 16 hour days in war factories because they want to; they're doing it because if they didn't mankind would be wiped out. They aren't shooting dissenters for the fun of it; they're doing it because they can't afford to have everyone not on the same page. They don't treat guardsmen as expendable because their lives are meaningless; they do it because the lives saved by their sacrifice far outweigh the cost.

If the Tau ever became significant enough to attract the kind of attention the Imperium has, they would perform the same horrors as the Imperium. Or they would be wiped out.

And that's before we get into the evils of their caste system (don't want to be a warrior? Too bad, you're fire caste! Now go out there and die!) and the apparent mind control.

**chromedog**

They may be too "good" but a lighter faction is needed, if only for a comparative pov.

Without light, how do you know what darkness is?

**BoomWolf**

Actually the caste system is a very bad example of what's "not right" about them, as the different castes are pretty much subraces who are VERY different from one another, like some kinds of bugs have different subraces that are all genetically the same race, but have vastly different bodies that serve vastly different roles.

A fire caste HAS to be a soldier not because it's the will of the ethreals, but because he is incapeable of manual labor, incapeable of making careful calculations, incapeable of doing pretty much anything-but being far more bloodthirsty, agressive, violent and lethal then any other Tau. (they pale compared to more other races, but the other castes are far less hardy, strong and fierce)

Same for the earth caste, being only good at manual labor and things that require a calculational mind, water caste being good only at mental tasks and air caste being good at navigation and manipulating transport devices, they are genetically made to fit one job, and it happened naturally-so nothing is wrong with it.

Tau do, however, feel a bit apature to me. "we do what we must, because we can.". clean, efficient, and emotinally distant of their actions, in a disturbing way.

**Micky**

BoomWolf wrote:

Tau do, however, feel a bit apature to me. "we do what we must, because we can.". clean, efficient, and emotinally distant of their actions, in a disturbing way.

Except for all the Farsight hotheads who have found freedom through anger.

**ZebioLizard2**

Micky wrote:
BoomWolf wrote:

Tau do, however, feel a bit apature to me. "we do what we must, because we can.". clean, efficient, and emotinally distant of their actions, in a disturbing way.

Except for all the Farsight hotheads who have found freedom through anger.

Which makes for a nice contrast when it comes to the Tau Empire. Having a schism does help show what type of tactics one can use when they are not apart of "Ethereal Way"

**Kroothawk**

AnomanderRake wrote:
You're missing the point of the Tau. Just because they tell you that they're on a crusade to bring peace to the galaxy doesn't mean they're nice people, that that's they're actual objective, or that they're not generally just as nasty and evil as anyone else, all it means is that they're cloaking their objectives behind an illusion of righteousness, just like a lot of people in the Imperium. Based on what I've read they're a militant Orwellian dystopia using manifest destiny to unify their citizens behind the objective of going out and conquering the rest of the galaxy. They're no different from the Imperium, except that they're willing to make slaves of other races instead of shooting them on sight.

Well, how about this:

Original Tau designer notes wrote:In contrast to other races, we wanted the Tau to be altruistic and idealistic, believing heartily in unification as the way forward. This meant that they would happily incorporate other races into their empire without subjugating them, instead enticing them in with the benefits of mutual protection, trade and technology.

Seems the designers also missed your point

**FenixZero**

Kroothawk wrote:
AnomanderRake wrote:
You're missing the point of the Tau. Just because they tell you that they're on a crusade to bring peace to the galaxy doesn't mean they're nice people, that that's they're actual objective, or that they're not generally just as nasty and evil as anyone else, all it means is that they're cloaking their objectives behind an illusion of righteousness, just like a lot of people in the Imperium. Based on what I've read they're a militant Orwellian dystopia using manifest destiny to unify their citizens behind the objective of going out and conquering the rest of the galaxy. They're no different from the Imperium, except that they're willing to make slaves of other races instead of shooting them on sight.

Well, how about this:

Original Tau designer notes wrote:In contrast to other races, we wanted the Tau to be altruistic and idealistic, believing heartily in unification as the way forward. This meant that they would happily incorporate other races into their empire without subjugating them, instead enticing them in with the benefits of mutual protection, trade and technology.

Seems the designers also missed your point

I was going to post something about how in the Codex, it states that Tau (the race, not the empire) seek be the first among equals.

Reading this, and the various other things, like they don't integrate the Kroot because the Tau (as a society) find the Kroot offensive (they are cannibals after all), tells me that they honestly want the best for all of their subjects; Tau, Human or what have you.

**Plumbumbarum**

Peregrine wrote:

2) History says that it's all superstition. That whole "pray to the machine god or your tank doesn't work" thing? That's just some idiot ten thousand years ago declaring that the user's manual is a sacred text and the startup checklist is a religious ritual to the machine god. And then of course thousands of years of equally idiotic theocracy pushing things to the point that even the slightest questioning of the sacred dogma or attempt to use real science or engineering is heresy and punished by death. Of course it didn't work that way in the past, when all of Imperial technology was first invented, so it's pretty stupid to argue that the machine god is anything but superstition.

Isn't that they believe it so it becomes real? Like machine spirit exist and can be corrupted etc?

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
They are a alternate shade of grey in the sometimes way to dark 40k setting, and serve to show off how truly dark the likes of Dark eldar, Chaos truly are.

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
...if everything is dark evil and genocidal..it kinda waters down the evil.

I disagree with the whole Tau for contrast thing, "everything is ultimate grimdark hopeless evil evilness" is a great flavour of the universe. The more grimdark and genocidal 40k gets, the more of a parody of everything else and itself it becomes but remains incredibly cool doing that. So you got serious grimdark not being serious the same time, something unique imo.

One thing that was great about our WFRP rpg sessions was that you had no chances ever to keep your belongings, sanity, moral code for more than a few days, no matter how succesful you were it always turned out to be some outside plot to use you or one big mistake with tragic consequences. You step down into a sever without Sigmar avatar with you, you die or get out with few additional eyes and good luck in the forest there. Grimdark is no hope, no chance, no sanity, no good, no middle ground - that's what makes it great.

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
so yes they fit..thats why they are in it, variety is the spice of life.

There are 100s other universes with variety, why can't this one be grimdark bolter round to the face chainsaw to the spine, only hopelessness simple and unvaried... it looses its character being diluted with races like Tau or Kroot and all those really serious stories with serious motivations.

Maybe on the end of the road there's only another Star Wars or Mass Effect or sth, just another pulp sf galaxy only with different aproach on design.

All that said I can live with Tau, after Newcrons I don't care anymore anyway as those are evil for 10 year old kids if so and silly in the bad way. If GW emphasised the communist type dichotomy in Tau (it's all for good of everyone! If you don't follow our orders, you go down for good of everyone!) it would be ok, I kind of like the idea of grimdark greys in 40k but Tau are just not evil enough.

But the worst part of them is XV8 battlesuit model, it is so unbearably toyish and nice that it hurts my brain watching at it. I know Dreadnought is kind of there too but still not the same league and at least it's a walking coffin, XV8 has nothing to explain itself. It could be a LEGO 3+ toy and noone would notice really, GW should redesign it asap imo

chromedog wrote:
They may be too "good" but a lighter faction is needed, if only for a comparative pov.

Without light, how do you know what darkness is?

You know because of gazillion of books, games, movies and life itself. You don't need contrast race to be put particularly into 40k to know everyone is evil there.

**reaper with no name**

BoomWolf wrote:
Actually the caste system is a very bad example of what's "not right" about them, as the different castes are pretty much subraces who are VERY different from one another, like some kinds of bugs have different subraces that are all genetically the same race, but have vastly different bodies that serve vastly different roles.

A fire caste HAS to be a soldier not because it's the will of the ethreals, but because he is incapeable of manual labor, incapeable of making careful calculations, incapeable of doing pretty much anything-but being far more bloodthirsty, agressive, violent and lethal then any other Tau. (they pale compared to more other races, but the other castes are far less hardy, strong and fierce)

Same for the earth caste, being only good at manual labor and things that require a calculational mind, water caste being good only at mental tasks and air caste being good at navigation and manipulating transport devices, they are genetically made to fit one job, and it happened naturally-so nothing is wrong with it.

Tau do, however, feel a bit apature to me. "we do what we must, because we can.". clean, efficient, and emotinally distant of their actions, in a disturbing way.

Don't be silly. War is all the Tau did before the Ethereals arrived. Every caste was fighting. That was why the Greater Good was such a big deal; it divided the Tau race into their different roles (which thereby implies that such was not the case before before).

**cox.dan2**

Don't you need goody-goodies to balance it out a little bit.

**BoomWolf**

reaper with no name wrote:

Don't be silly. War is all the Tau did before the Ethereals arrived. Every caste was fighting. That was why the Greater Good was such a big deal; it divided the Tau race into their different roles (which thereby implies that such was not the case before before).

Actually it was more of the fire being travelling pillagres who took everything by force, the earth trying to build themselves fortress-citys to defend themselves, the air just being too hard to catch and steal from everyone else, and the water going for a "strengh by numbers" thing by forging alliances with the other water tribes and bribing fire tirbes to leave them alone/defend them from other fire tribes.

They were not all bloodthirsty and warmonging, only the fire were, and the otehrs adapted to survive, and got into habit of killing as well because there was no other way with the fire tribes running wild and massacuring everyone too weak to defend themselves/run away.

The fire caste is the real risky part of the Tau empire. these guys are as bad as any other when it comes to warmonging, the others kind of balance them out. (air by cowadness, earth by passiveness and water by diplomacy)

Water can be just as nasty when it comes to the good/evil meter, because they WILL force you to your knees and enslave you without ethreals keeping them in check, just economically instead of militeristicly.

**Plumbumbarum**

Kroothawk wrote:

Original Tau designer notes wrote:In contrast to other races, we wanted the Tau to be altruistic and idealistic, believing heartily in unification as the way forward. This meant that they would happily incorporate other races into their empire without subjugating them, instead enticing them in with the benefits of mutual protection, trade and technology.

Is that true? What a pile of crap, space hobbits with a mission.

**Grey Templar**

Lets hope Farsight gives some sort of FoC bending ability in the new codex. Or maybe a melee weapon option for battlesuits!

**silence indigo**

"In the grim darkness of the future, there is only war".

Seems to me that the Tau, as they are now presented, don't fit too well with the overall 40k theme. On a personal level, I feel their gear looks too much like Robotech or Star Wars and their society looks too much like Star Trek, which makes them appear far less and dark-looking distinctive than the other 40K species.

It also has the inconvenient of making the Imperium's struggle against Chaos less justified, as if they could be nicer yet still succeed at preserving mankind, while a core element of the 40k universe IMHO is that "however bleak it is, the Imperium couldn't work otherwise and is Mankind's last hope". That, at least in the Black Library Pre-Heresy novels, seems to be the driving cause behind the Great Crusade in the face of future events foresworn by the Emperor, beloved by all.

I think the darker side of the Tau should at least be conveyed in the mechanics, perhaps with penal regiment units, brainwashed converts from other species or crowd control troops so that this society's uglier side shows more.

**Crimson-King2120**

The tau are having trouble enough dealing with the orks not to mention getting bitch slapped by Vect and Rakarth they won't be causing the gods of chaos any problems for a long time