Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
@tezerel sorry to tell this but your 100% wrong.

3 x river trolls with complex moulds and excellent detail £28.50 - 3 x overly simplified and horribly sculpted hobbit trolls £50

Cities of Death building with 3 sprues and more plastic £20 - goblin town nicely sculpted 2 spruces but lighter gauge £35

You see where I'm going with this? GW has rinsed costs to the bone with this range and then overcharged for it. If people pay these prices then expect next years price rises to reflect this. Acceptance is permission in GWs eyes. They have chosen to run this experiment with the hobbit as trend buying will make this a success in corporate eyes and then they will believe there entire range should be this price as that is what they think the market will stand. Do not buy overpriced substandard miniatures, it only encourages them to carry out future crimes against the hobby.

I think they're appealing to the LOTR/Hobbit non-wargamer fans too, and especially near Christmas, people will be more than likely tempted to buy this for their loved ones. I know the last lot of LOTR did phenomenally well when it was released. People will buy this.

I know I am, I've already got my order in for a limited edition set and the scenery. I like LOTR, whether it gets opened depends on whether or not people at my local gaming store collect it too

@stubacca I thought us northerners where more canny with their cash ;-)

Something interesting that I've heard quite a few times from people I've spoken with from GW suggests that the Lord of the Rings players would only come in to pick up new releases, instead playing at home.

Whether that is true or not, considering the general attitude that 40k/Fantasy players have towards them I would not be surprised if LOTR players had home clubs rather than playing in store.

 stubacca wrote:

Tezerel wrote:
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. Everyone is saying the price of the starter is obscene, and yet to me I think it is a great deal.

Dark Vengeance is 99 dollars for 48 minis, this limited edition Goblin Town is 125 for 56. Obviously I'm ignoring the differences in miniatures, but the goblin town set comes with 13 dwarf HEROES aka each one is a unique leader, gandalf, bilbo, radagast, and the goblin king. So lots of unique sculpts.

And on top of the massive number of heroes, it comes with terrain, which dark vengeance did NOT come with. So to me it seems like a pretty sweet deal. 56 minis plus rules, terrain, dice, extra crap all for 125- much better deal that GW usually offers.

Also like others have pointed out, the 3 trolls save you money when you look at the prices of trolls individually. The white council also could have easily just been 4 blister packs at $20 or more considering GW pricing.

Really most of these sets are usual GW pricing or less, it's just all bundled instead of broken up into small packets, which I guess everyone is used to.

What scenery? You don't get scenery included in this, you have to pay £35 EXTRA for the privilege of scenery, all you get in this is a chair for the goblin king to stand on

"Limited Edition contains 56 Citadel Miniatures including: Gandalf the Grey, Bilbo Baggins, Thorin Oakenshield, the limited edition Radagast the Brown, Oin the Dwarf, Gloin the Dwarf, Nori the Dwarf, Ori the Dwarf, Kili the Dwarf, Fili, the Dwarf, Dwalin the Dwarf, Bombur the Dwarf, Bofur the Dwarf, Bifur the Dwarf, The Goblin King, Grinnah the Goblin, The Goblin Scribe, Goblin Captain, 36 Goblin Warriors, and The Goblin King's platform. Also included is a 48 Page full colour 'Your Journey Begins Here' booklet, 1 Play Sheet, a 112 page full colour rules manual, 8 Dice, and 1 Ruler"

Not to be argumentative...but check out all the photos running across the bottom of the link.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat970009a&prodId=prod1820008a

The set appears to include a Goblin catapult/ set of scales and the scenery sprue (also available separately as you state).

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
@stubacca I thought us northerners where more canny with their cash ;-)

haha it's released on payday, and my FLGS offers 10% off. What can I say, more money than sense? haha

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
They have chosen to run this experiment with the hobbit as trend buying will make this a success in corporate eyes and then they will believe there entire range should be this price as that is what they think the market will stand. Do not buy overpriced substandard miniatures, it only encourages them to carry out future crimes against the hobby.

Whether or not this is an "experiment", GW hasn't been running the upper end of the price range for some time now. Not with miniatures, not with terrain (Example)

Compared what others are putting out these day, GW's almost starting to look like a discounter

alphaecho wrote:

 stubacca wrote:

Tezerel wrote:
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. Everyone is saying the price of the starter is obscene, and yet to me I think it is a great deal.

Dark Vengeance is 99 dollars for 48 minis, this limited edition Goblin Town is 125 for 56. Obviously I'm ignoring the differences in miniatures, but the goblin town set comes with 13 dwarf HEROES aka each one is a unique leader, gandalf, bilbo, radagast, and the goblin king. So lots of unique sculpts.

And on top of the massive number of heroes, it comes with terrain, which dark vengeance did NOT come with. So to me it seems like a pretty sweet deal. 56 minis plus rules, terrain, dice, extra crap all for 125- much better deal that GW usually offers.

Also like others have pointed out, the 3 trolls save you money when you look at the prices of trolls individually. The white council also could have easily just been 4 blister packs at $20 or more considering GW pricing.

Really most of these sets are usual GW pricing or less, it's just all bundled instead of broken up into small packets, which I guess everyone is used to.

What scenery? You don't get scenery included in this, you have to pay £35 EXTRA for the privilege of scenery, all you get in this is a chair for the goblin king to stand on

"Limited Edition contains 56 Citadel Miniatures including: Gandalf the Grey, Bilbo Baggins, Thorin Oakenshield, the limited edition Radagast the Brown, Oin the Dwarf, Gloin the Dwarf, Nori the Dwarf, Ori the Dwarf, Kili the Dwarf, Fili, the Dwarf, Dwalin the Dwarf, Bombur the Dwarf, Bofur the Dwarf, Bifur the Dwarf, The Goblin King, Grinnah the Goblin, The Goblin Scribe, Goblin Captain, 36 Goblin Warriors, and The Goblin King's platform. Also included is a 48 Page full colour 'Your Journey Begins Here' booklet, 1 Play Sheet, a 112 page full colour rules manual, 8 Dice, and 1 Ruler"

Not to be argumentative...but check out all the photos running across the bottom of the link.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat970009a&prodId=prod1820008a

The set appears to include a Goblin catapult/ set of scales and the scenery sprue (also available separately as you state).

my bad!

Stubacca the platform is scenery http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2780360a_01011499006_EscapeFromGoblinTown08_873x627.jpg

The piece here is not the goblin town add on, it is the platform with throne.

Unclebadtouch, river trolls are nice models but are not only not lord of the rings models, but are also smaller and come on smaller bases. Compared to the mordor and moria trolls from lotr, the new ones save you money.

So yeah, cool they are cheap. So are chaos cultists but pricing for finecast and metal has always been more, no surprise.

@zweis get off your high horse and stop trying to bring pointless hyperbole into every discussion. Hawk wargames have only just released those scenic items yet you make out like that is the norm for the industry. That is bull and you know it. I presented the most accurate like for like comparison, one that involves GWs own products. Your comments are meant to distract and fill yourself with some sense of smug fulfillment that you are smarter than others, you are not and you are irrelevant to this discussion. this is my one and not response to you in this thread.

@everyone else I suggest you block zweis as he will insist on trolling yet another discussion on these forums.

Aren't you a happy soul...

 Zweischneid wrote:

 Eiríkr wrote:


The Wargs we'll be seeing in the Hobbit are far closer to Tolkien's vision of them, wolf-like and rabid!

If I remember the book correctly, Tolkien's vision of them was wolf-like and quite chatty, as well as a bit arrogant.

Correct!

@tezerel are you suggesting that those Hobbit trolls are nearly 100% bigger? Because they are not yet they are nearly 100% more expensive with worse detail. They are changing a hobbit tax and don't you doubt it.

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
@tezerel are you suggesting that those Hobbit trolls are nearly 100% bigger? Because they are not yet they are nearly 100% more expensive with worse detail. They are changing a hobbit tax and don't you doubt it.

You know that the trolls are smaller?

And "worse detail" is not the case here. The fact that they do not have scales, fish to slap you with, etc does not make them any less detailed.

You're entitled to not like the models. But continually hating on them along with suggesting people just "block" a person who disagrees with you is a bit silly, don't you think?

@kan yes I am 100% certain that the hobbit trolls are not 100% bigger than the trolls in either volume or height, as the bases are known sizes you can work out the scaling photo and discern dimensions that way.

And yes that is exactly what more detailed means, also you will note on the hobbit trolls areas where texture has been blended away to allow components be larger yet still release from the mould so there can be less components, taking up less sprue space, meaning they can have less sprues and are diminishing detail to reduce costs.

As for @zweis feel free to search his forum posts and you will see his"contributions" in all their "glory"

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
@kan yes I am 100% certain that the hobbit trolls are not 100% bigger than the trolls in either volume or height, as the bases are known sizes you can work out the scaling photo and discern dimensions that way.

They're on 60mm round bases. The same size as a Dreadnought base.
The River Trolls are on 40mm square bases.

That doesn't make for a good scale comparison.

And yes that is exactly what more detailed means, also you will note on the hobbit trolls areas where texture has been blended away to allow components be larger yet still release from the mould so there can be less components, taking up less sprue space, meaning they can have less sprues and are diminishing detail to reduce costs.

That's speculation not supported by the photos of the sprues.

It's the independent retailers I feel sorry for that GW will try to force this stuff on. Can you order only Fantasy and 40K or do they start getting awkward if you don't stock all three systems?

Seems this will be a tough sell at these prices. GW will probably get away with it because people just buy their stuff no matter what. But it's going to be crap for retailers buying into this Hobbit stuff and having it sit on shelves if it doesn't go fast enough. The higher the RRP the higher the wholesale price which is a big sting to the independent store owner.

@kan knowing the dimensions of the bases makes scale comparison very easy if for instance in a photo a 40mm base is 30mm when know it is 75% of actual size. Then by measuring height, arm span etc I can then apply that factor and discern the dimensions of the model. Yes actual factual numbers. Deny it all you want but the hobbit trolls are not 100% bigger than the river trolls, guaranteed, not even close no contest. Your assertions are wrong, get out a ruler and test it for yourself before you incorrectly nay say me.

I don't have to "incorrectly naysay" you.

Read the product descriptions.
The Trolls

This kit contains 44 components and three 60mm round bases with which to make three Stone Trolls.

River Troll Product Page

This box set contains three multi-part plastic River Trolls. This set includes a host of components that allow you to assemble the Trolls in a range of different ways, including: three different bodies, five different heads and five different pairs of arms. Models supplied with 40mm square bases.

The square v. round bases always make square based models seem much larger since they almost always use up the entire space(in terms of "volume") while the round based models tend to look like they do not fill the space even with a bulky model like a Dreadnought or Sentinel.

 Zweischneid wrote:

Whether or not this is an "experiment", GW hasn't been running the upper end of the price range for some time now. Not with miniatures, not with terrain (Example)

Compared what others are putting out these day, GW's almost starting to look like a discounter

Oh, Zwei. You do enjoy stirring the pot, don't you?

@kan the river trolls have 48 components and that doesn't involve a pointless fire piece of scenery.

You also seem to think I'm applying opinion as to the size of the miniatures, I am not as already stated you can take dimensions from the photos themselves as we know the size of the bases. Fact. Not opinion. It is fact that the hobbit trolls are not 100% bigger than river trolls.

So anyway. I might buy the starter box if/when I can find it on eBay for a cheap (ie US RRP) price. I like the look of the dwarves, and I'll just use LotR and even WFB/other fantasy figures for everything/anything else.

I think the trolls look like crap. Understandable if that's what they look like in the film, but for gaming, Existing LotR trolls in my collection or even suitably-modded fantasy trolls will work just fine. Same with orcs, warg riders, and so forth. Shame about the White Council, as they are very nice sculpts.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
@kan the river trolls have 48 components and that doesn't involve a pointless fire piece of scenery.
You also seem to think I'm applying opinion as to the size of the miniatures, I am not as already stated you can take dimensions from the photos themselves as we know the size of the bases. Fact. Not opinion. It is fact that the hobbit trolls are not 100% bigger than river trolls.

One of you should photochop pics from the two troll types together and settle the argument once and for all.

Keep in mind that
1.) the general design is done by the film crew. They designed the Trolls, Goblin town and dwarfs. If you find the troll design inferior to GW's river trolls, it certainly is not the fault of GW. If the battle against goblins takes place on plain planks, GW can't make a terrain set of beautiful Elven design. The GW prices are of course GW's responsibility.
2.) the Hobbit movie is not a 1-1 copy of the book, but, being a different medium and being extended to 3 movies, some things can only be understood or valued if you have seen the movie. In other words, the movie is an entity by itself, following its own rules and taking liberties. So I am quite certain, that some people will change their opinion after seeing the movie.

Also, the Hobbit trolls are considerably larger than the river trolls, as can be seen here:

Those trolls do look very big

I wonder it they'd look better with the hair the stills of the film versions have, it might make them look less plasticky... perhaps some painted static grass would work?

(a shame the film has the goblin king so large and 'blobby' too.... I can go with the new goblin, but the king, nope)

The art direction is 100% PJ/WETA/Newline. However the choice to take up the license was GWs, the choice to simplify models reducing quality to cut cost was GWs, the choice to set inflated prices was GWs. If people choose to buy at the prices then this increased pricing will become standard and that will be the consumers fault.

@kroot at most the hobbit trolls are no more than 40% taller with a similar volume to the river trolls, the price is nearly 100% greater. I'm not saying that these should have been the same price as the river trolls, I personally think £35 would have been appropriate. I also believe £25 for the scenery set would not have been unreasonable as I do believe the COD building are slightly underpriced however its obvious that GW has pushed the prices far beyond their worth.

GWs new motto "mantic quality at three times the price".

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
The art direction is 100% PJ/WETA/Newline. However the choice to take up the license was GWs, the choice to simplify models reducing quality to cut cost was GWs, the choice to set inflated prices was GWs. If people choose to buy at the prices then this increased pricing will become standard and that will be the consumers fault.

@kroot at most the hobbit trolls are no more than 40% taller with a similar volume to the river trolls, the price is nearly 100% greater. I'm not saying that these should have been the same price as the river trolls, I personally think £35 would have been appropriate. I also believe £25 for the scenery set would not have been unreasonable as I do believe the COD building are slightly underpriced however its obvious that GW has pushed the prices far beyond their worth.

GWs new motto "mantic quality at three times the price".

You're adorable.

_Tim?

 Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
The art direction is 100% PJ/WETA/Newline. However the choice to take up the license was GWs, the choice to simplify models reducing quality to cut cost was GWs, the choice to set inflated prices was GWs. If people choose to buy at the prices then this increased pricing will become standard and that will be the consumers fault.

@kroot at most the hobbit trolls are no more than 40% taller with a similar volume to the river trolls, the price is nearly 100% greater. I'm not saying that these should have been the same price as the river trolls, I personally think £35 would have been appropriate. I also believe £25 for the scenery set would not have been unreasonable as I do believe the COD building are slightly underpriced however its obvious that GW has pushed the prices far beyond their worth.

GWs new motto "mantic quality at three times the price".

You're adorable.

_Tim?

Why thank you x

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:

 Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
The art direction is 100% PJ/WETA/Newline. However the choice to take up the license was GWs, the choice to simplify models reducing quality to cut cost was GWs, the choice to set inflated prices was GWs. If people choose to buy at the prices then this increased pricing will become standard and that will be the consumers fault.

@kroot at most the hobbit trolls are no more than 40% taller with a similar volume to the river trolls, the price is nearly 100% greater. I'm not saying that these should have been the same price as the river trolls, I personally think £35 would have been appropriate. I also believe £25 for the scenery set would not have been unreasonable as I do believe the COD building are slightly underpriced however its obvious that GW has pushed the prices far beyond their worth.

GWs new motto "mantic quality at three times the price".

You're adorable.

_Tim?

Why thank you x

I was being affectionately sarcastic.

_Tim?

Just had a thought....

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DO NOT BUY THE RULE BOOK!

It will only last you a year if follows the lotr pattern with every movie :(

Oof. Personally I find the US pricing a bit...oof. But the only ones that made me roll my eyes were the characters. I mean, GW pricing has been a bit oof for a while now. But $20 for a character, or $40 for a mounted character, or $75 for four characters seems over the top.

But here's the thing, I know lots of people on the internet like to talk about how stupid GW is and how bad they are at business. But they are not. There's no other game company that's been around as long as they have, selling in the volume that they sell. All the companies people compare favorably to GW - Mantic, Privateer, Battlefront, etc - would be thrilled to have the longevity, sales and profit of GW.

So GW knows a bit about their business. And they know what sold with LoTR. And I bet they are pricing the White Council, etc with an eye towards collectors and not gamers. I bet a big chunk of those sets go to people who will never play a game of the Hobbit. Hell, a lot of them will never even be opened, they'll just sit in their shrink wrap, (not) rising in value. Because that's what collectors do. They collect. And they won't be put off by $20 extra here and there.

Just because I don't like GW's decisions doesn't mean those decisions are stupid.

That's exactly what I said *thumbs up*

 hubcap wrote:
Oof. Personally I find the US pricing a bit...oof. But the only ones that made me roll my eyes were the characters. I mean, GW pricing has been a bit oof for a while now. But $20 for a character, or $40 for a mounted character, or $75 for four characters seems over the top.

But here's the thing, I know lots of people on the internet like to talk about how stupid GW is and how bad they are at business. But they are not. There's no other game company that's been around as long as they have, selling in the volume that they sell. All the companies people compare favorably to GW - Mantic, Privateer, Battlefront, etc - would be thrilled to have the longevity, sales and profit of GW.

So GW knows a bit about their business. And they know what sold with LoTR. And I bet they are pricing the White Council, etc with an eye towards collectors and not gamers. I bet a big chunk of those sets go to people who will never play a game of the Hobbit. Hell, a lot of them will never even be opened, they'll just sit in their shrink wrap, (not) rising in value. Because that's what collectors do. They collect. And they won't be put off by $20 extra here and there.

Just because I don't like GW's decisions doesn't mean those decisions are stupid.

Can't disagree in principle.

However it is frustrating to see a company that's in a position to do so much for the hobby as a whole and generate so much goodwill and make so much money in the process constantly make sub-optimal decisions in favour of a short term, short sighted money grab.