Israel whacks Hamas commander in response to rocket attacks from Gaza

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**whembly**

It's Baghdad Bob all over again!

**sebster**

The issue with these attacks is that everyone stares at this issue through the tiny window of what the news covers right now. And the news, of course, shows the most dramatic, exciting moments of fighting. And fair enough, seeing the Iron Dome shoot down a rocket is pretty damn cool, and seeing the damage on both sides of the border is pretty emotional. It's just plain good tv, no fault on the news companies for showing that.

But the problem is everyone walks away afterwards, and begins spouting opinions based on nothing more than that little window of news they saw, they don't consider the greater context of events. Well sure, Israel has a right to defend itself, and if Hamas leaders are going to remain among the civilian population then civilian deaths are going to happen.

But the bigger issue remains the settlement of Palestinian land, and the quarantine enforced upon Palestine. The reality is that if the whole of Israeli society really wanted an end to the violence, then they'd stop the settlements, and they'd work towards a solution that gave Palestine a chance at a viable economy.

But that isn't happening. And all the while we get all this debate nonsense about who has the right to shoot missiles at who.

whembly wrote:
Okay seb... I'll bite.

Where do you draw the line and hold a group of people responsible for their government?

I don't have a problem with the people of Palestine being held responsible for the actions of Hamas. If they don't want Israeli helicopters blowing up their homes and children, they should stop firing rockets at Israeli homes.

Similarly, I don't have a problem with Israeli civilians being held responsible for the actions of Israel. If they don't want to come under rocket attack, then they should stop settling Palestinian land.

The problem I had with AustonT's post is with the mentality of calling a group of people, any group of people, as "untrustworthy violent snakes". That's just straight up crazy talk.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

whembly wrote:
Wait... am I wrong? Didn't the Palestinian elect the Hamas?

Yes, they were. There was supposed to be another election this year but it was postponed to next year due to in-fighting between Hamas and Fatah.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ensis Ferrae wrote:
I suspect very much that Auston, like myself have had many dealings with people of Muslim persuasion over in the Middle East. As a result of these experiences, as well as those of other people in more public venues have led to a fairly legitimate reason to see entire nations as untrustworthy, violent snakes. To me, it is not nonsense to think of them this way; They have done NOTHING to dissuade people from this notion.

No, it's crazy pants nonsense.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
That only showed that you do NOT gak with Israel - the Israel gak you.
Seriously, after what Israel did in 1967 I would never go in war against them. Especially now when they have on of the most elite military and nukes.

So what would you do when they kept settling your land? Just let them do it?

**Andrew1975**

"Over the past three days, 737 rockets from Gaza were fired upon Israel: 492 landed, but 245 were intercepted by the system, Israel Defense Forces said Saturday"

You know, this is how you wage a war, shoot $800 rockets at the enemy and they block them with $62,000.00 missiles fired from a $50 million dollar battery. Its just crazy.

**whembly**

Andrew1975 wrote:
"Over the past three days, 737 rockets from Gaza were fired upon Israel: 492 landed, but 245 were intercepted by the system, Israel Defense Forces said Saturday"

You know, this is how you wage a war, shoot $800 rockets at the enemy and they block them with $62,000.00 missiles fired from a $50 million dollar battery. Its just crazy.

No really crazy when the benefactors will open their wallets.

**sebster**

Andrew1975 wrote:
"Over the past three days, 737 rockets from Gaza were fired upon Israel: 492 landed, but 245 were intercepted by the system, Israel Defense Forces said Saturday"

You know, this is how you wage a war, shoot $800 rockets at the enemy and they block them with $62,000.00 missiles fired from a $50 million dollar battery. Its just crazy.

It isn't that much of a problem, when you've got much, much deeper pockets than the other side. Take a look around Palestine some time - an $800 rocket is a fair chunk of resources.

**Harriticus**

Andrew1975 wrote:
"Over the past three days, 737 rockets from Gaza were fired upon Israel: 492 landed, but 245 were intercepted by the system, Israel Defense Forces said Saturday"

You know, this is how you wage a war, shoot $800 rockets at the enemy and they block them with $62,000.00 missiles fired from a $50 million dollar battery. Its just crazy.

Not when firing those $800 rockets mean you'll get blown up or have to spend the rest of your short life in hiding. Hamas leaders can choose to either fire rockets or die, and the self-proclaimed martyrs leading these Jihadist groups are rarely as brave as they make themselves out to be (Hezbollah is a good example, which hasn't lifted a finger against Israel for 6 years).

**sebster**

Harriticus wrote:
Not when firing those $800 rockets mean you'll get blown up or have to spend the rest of your short life in hiding. Hamas leaders can choose to either fire rockets or die, and the self-proclaimed martyrs leading these Jihadist groups are rarely as brave as they make themselves out to be (Hezbollah is a good example, which hasn't lifted a finger against Israel for 6 years).

Other than a broad stereotype, what made you proclaim the leaders of either Hezbollah or Hamas are self proclaimed martyrs?

**Jihadin**

They're not dead...yet to be martrys..

...and I think I've a hook for a Sebster mini

**sebster**

Jihadin wrote:
They're not dead...yet to be martrys..

Well, it's just the last time Israel sent ground troops in Hamas were the first to get the hell out of there. There wasn't any 'ha ha you guys aren't living up to your martyr ideals'.... because they don't profess martyr ideals.

It's just, despite the opinions of people who half watch the news and like to form general opinions about what people 'over there' are like, what we're seeing here isn't the result of people crapping on about dying for a cause. What we're seeing is the collapse of an unstable five year relationship in which Hamas stopped (most) rockets from being launched into Israel, and in exchange Israel sent in money that allowed Hamas to keep open hospitals and the like. This situation was always problematic because Hamas simply doesn't have complete control over every armed group in Gaza and so not every missile could be stopped. As such, when missiles were launched into Israel, how do the Israelis know that Hamas did everything they could? Eventually they decided that Jabari wasn't doing enough so they whacked him. Whether he wasn't doing enough was because he didn't want to or couldn't didn't matter, following the logic of Defense Minister Ehud Barak "In the Middle East there is no second chance for the weak."

Add in the West Bank, where peaceful co-existance is basically Israel settling more and more land... which leaves the people of Gaza to wonder exactly what their options are. Sure, shooting missiles at the country with the powerful military is pretty stupid, but what other plan is there? Peacefully co-exist until they've taken all your land?

Oh, and add in that both countries have elections in the near future meaning neither side is willing to look weak, and you get the situation we have today.

And in response to all that complexity people on the internet talk about the treacherous snake people of Palestine, and how Hamas are all self proclaimed martyrs.

...and I think I've a hook for a Sebster mini

Please do expand

**filbert**

Yes, Guido is an incredibly right wing and partisan blog but still....

http://order-order.com/2012/11/19/gazas-aqua-park-has-been-destroyed/

**AustonT**

Sanaa al-Dadah wrote:The Israelis are responsible. They are the enemy of God. What did we do? Did we carry any missiles? Did we launch any rockets?”

Maybe it's your attitude.

**Harriticus**

sebster wrote:
Harriticus wrote:
Not when firing those $800 rockets mean you'll get blown up or have to spend the rest of your short life in hiding. Hamas leaders can choose to either fire rockets or die, and the self-proclaimed martyrs leading these Jihadist groups are rarely as brave as they make themselves out to be (Hezbollah is a good example, which hasn't lifted a finger against Israel for 6 years).

Other than a broad stereotype, what made you proclaim the leaders of either Hezbollah or Hamas are self proclaimed martyrs?

Their own words, they invoke martyrdom whenever one of them dies and express their willingness to die.

It is not a "stereotype" to label the leaders of Jihadist terrorist organizations these things. I advise you look at the Hamas reaction to Jabari's death, where martyrdom was invoked by guys such as Haniyeh and Zahar.

**sebster**

Harriticus wrote:
Their own words, they invoke martyrdom whenever one of them dies and express their willingness to die.

It is not a "stereotype" to label the leaders of Jihadist terrorist organizations these things. I advise you look at the Hamas reaction to Jabari's death, where martyrdom was invoked by guys such as Haniyeh and Zahar.

You're confusing political theatre with political reality.

It's a bit like thinking US politicians are absolutely committed to the welfare of injured soldiers because they wear little American flag pins. Or like thinking Iran gives two gaks about the Palestinians because they make noise about their great suffering whenever it suits their political purposes.

Meanwhile, look at the actual actions of Hamas. Look at their actions the last time Israel invaded - they got the feth out of town. Look at the very realpolitik deal they struck with Israel after that - they negotiated to police the various armed groups and stop more rocket fire in exchange for humanitarian aid. And so, like the PLO before them, Hamas became the next administrator for hire for the Israelis in Gaza (albeit a lot less corrupt than the PLO). Now, whether Hamas chose not to stop every rocket, or whether they simply weren't capable of stopping every rocket is up for debate, but the reality is they were stopping most of them. But, with elections around the corner (in both Israel and Palestine), they weren't stopping enough rockets, and so Israel took action.

That's the political reality of the situation. But hey, learning all that and thinking about what it means and where to go from here is complicated and hard. Better to just declare one side a bunch of martyr loons and move on.

**Inquisitor Ehrenstein**

Why do people seem to think that Israel is the enemy here?

I watched a documentary about blaming Israel and Antisemitism.

I also recently had an epiphany about why the Holocaust happened. I think anyone who says it could happen here needs to be evaluated, but it's the same sort of thinking going on. Just blame the Jews.

**AustonT**

Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:

I also recently had an epiphany about why the Holocaust happened.

ORLY what's that?

**Mannahnin**

It's off topic?

Why do people seem to think that Israel is the enemy here?

Whose enemy?

They are the guys with vastly more money and vastly superior military force, who keep the other side brutally poor and keep taking more of their land. Culturally and historically, as an American I certainly feel more friendly toward Israel than Palestine, but I don't think their conduct toward the Palestinians is admirable.

**AustonT**

Mannahnin wrote:
I don't think their conduct toward the Palestinians is admirable.

Neither do plenty of Israelis, B'tselem comes to mind first.

**sebster**

Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
Why do people seem to think that Israel is the enemy here?

We don't. You've just read the thread very poorly, in order to justify a simplistic political position you already held.

Neither Israel nor anyone within Israel is to blame for this situation. Nor is Palestine or anyone within Palestine.

The situation is the product of a very understandable politcal view held by many Jewish and non-Jewish people (in the wake of the holocaust it was believed the only way for the Jews to be safe was to have a homeland), which was complicated when the Palestinian people did something very few people expected (they didn't leave and settle elsewhere, but instead stayed and began slowly to form their own national identity).

That situation would be difficult enough, before you factor in the politcally powerful minority within Israel who believes they have a right to claim even more land in Gaza and on the West Bank.

Despite those problems, a hell of a lot of people on both sides have done a hell of a lot of things to try and stop the violence and resolve this issue. The problem is that finding a conclusion that will satisfy not just the leaders of both sides, but all the various sub-factions within each side has proven near impossible, and it only takes a few people to start another cycle of violent reprisals.

I also recently had an epiphany about why the Holocaust happened. I think anyone who says it could happen here needs to be evaluated, but it's the same sort of thinking going on. Just blame the Jews.

bs. Absolute 100% bs.

The holocaust happened because people who had a great deal of power came to see an ethnic minority as sub-human.

To the extent that has been seen in this thread, it's from people talking about Palestinians being treacherous snakes.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

AustonT wrote:
Neither do plenty of Israelis, B'tselem comes to mind first.

It's always interesting to compare the complexity of the debate within Israel itself, to the nonsense you get outside of Israel. There you'll find ex-Defense and ex-Mossad people on and off record talking about the need for a long term strategy for peace and a willingness to make concessions in order to secure Israel's security long term*. But when similar arguments are put forward in places like this, they get called anti-semitic.

The whole thing is quite baffling.

*A common thread is that, no matter what anyone thinks of the Palestinians, the situation is bad for Israel, and a long term threat to its security. From a defence POV its bad because having an army touring an urban environment places a terrible grind on military resources and destroys morale - something most US citizens would now understand after the experience in Iraq. And from an intelligence POV there is a massive concern that if another conflict is waged with Hamas the IDF might be too successful and Hamas could collapse... and in that power vortex Israel might have to give up all pretence and become a governing power in their own right, which would be a political and administrative nightmare.

**AlmightyWalrus**

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?id=292466

Ariel Sharon's son Gilad Sharon argues that Gaza should be deprived of fuel and electricity entirely, seeking a "decisive solution". Why he'd even use an expression that will immediately draw comparison to the Final Solution is beyond me.

Jerusalem Post wrote:There is no middle path here – either the Gazans and their infrastructure are made to pay the price, or we reoccupy the entire Gaza Strip.

Anyone who thinks Hamas is going to beg for a cease-fire, that Operation Pillar of Defense will draw to a close and quiet will reign in the South because we hit targets in the Gaza Strip, needs to think again.

With the elimination of a murderous terrorist and the destruction of Hamas’s long-range missile stockpile, the operation was off to an auspicious start, but what now? This must not be allowed to end as did Operation Cast Lead: We bomb them, they fire missiles at us, and then a cease-fire, followed by “showers” – namely sporadic missile fire and isolated incidents along the fence. Life under such a rain of death is no life at all, and we cannot allow ourselves to become resigned to it.

A strong opening isn’t enough, you also have to know how to finish – and finish decisively. If it isn’t clear whether the ball crossed the goal-line or not, the goal isn’t decisive. The ball needs to hit the net, visible to all. What does a decisive victory sound like? A Tarzan-like cry that lets the entire jungle know in no uncertain terms just who won, and just who was defeated.

To accomplish this, you need to achieve what the other side can’t bear, can’t live with, and our initial bombing campaign isn’t it.

THE DESIRE to prevent harm to innocent civilians in Gaza will ultimately lead to harming the truly innocent: the residents of southern Israel. The residents of Gaza are not innocent, they elected Hamas. The Gazans aren’t hostages; they chose this freely, and must live with the consequences.

The Gaza Strip functions as a state – it has a government and conducts foreign relations, there are schools, medical facilities, there are armed forces and all the other trappings of statehood. We have no territorial conflict with “Gaza State,” and it is not under Israeli siege – it shares a border with Egypt. Despite this, it fires on our citizens without restraint.

Why do our citizens have to live with rocket fire from Gaza while we fight with our hands tied? Why are the citizens of Gaza immune? If the Syrians were to open fire on our towns, would we not attack Damascus? If the Cubans were to fire at Miami, wouldn’t Havana suffer the consequences? That’s what’s called “deterrence” – if you shoot at me, I’ll shoot at you. There is no justification for the State of Gaza being able to shoot at our towns with impunity. We need to flatten entire neighborhoods in Gaza. Flatten all of Gaza. The Americans didn’t stop with Hiroshima – the Japanese weren’t surrendering fast enough, so they hit Nagasaki, too.

There should be no electricity in Gaza, no gasoline or moving vehicles, nothing. Then they’d really call for a ceasefire.

Were this to happen, the images from Gaza might be unpleasant – but victory would be swift, and the lives of our soldiers and civilians spared.

IF THE government isn’t prepared to go all the way on this, it will mean reoccupying the entire Gaza Strip. Not a few neighborhoods in the suburbs, as with Cast Lead, but the entire Strip, like in Defensive Shield, so that rockets can no longer be fired.

There is no middle path here – either the Gazans and their infrastructure are made to pay the price, or we reoccupy the entire Gaza Strip. Otherwise there will be no decisive victory. And we’re running out of time – we must achieve victory quickly. The Netanyahu government is on a short international leash. Soon the pressure will start – and a million civilians can’t live under fire for long. This needs to end quickly – with a bang, not a whimper.

The views expressed in this op-ed do not reflect the editorial line of The Jerusalem Post

**Frazzled**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?id=292466

Ariel Sharon's son Gilad Sharon argues that Gaza should be deprived of fuel and electricity entirely, seeking a "decisive solution". Why he'd even use an expression that will immediately draw comparison to the Final Solution is beyond me.

Jerusalem Post wrote:There is no middle path here – either the Gazans and their infrastructure are made to pay the price, or we reoccupy the entire Gaza Strip.

Anyone who thinks Hamas is going to beg for a cease-fire, that Operation Pillar of Defense will draw to a close and quiet will reign in the South because we hit targets in the Gaza Strip, needs to think again.

With the elimination of a murderous terrorist and the destruction of Hamas’s long-range missile stockpile, the operation was off to an auspicious start, but what now? This must not be allowed to end as did Operation Cast Lead: We bomb them, they fire missiles at us, and then a cease-fire, followed by “showers” – namely sporadic missile fire and isolated incidents along the fence. Life under such a rain of death is no life at all, and we cannot allow ourselves to become resigned to it.

A strong opening isn’t enough, you also have to know how to finish – and finish decisively. If it isn’t clear whether the ball crossed the goal-line or not, the goal isn’t decisive. The ball needs to hit the net, visible to all. What does a decisive victory sound like? A Tarzan-like cry that lets the entire jungle know in no uncertain terms just who won, and just who was defeated.

To accomplish this, you need to achieve what the other side can’t bear, can’t live with, and our initial bombing campaign isn’t it.

THE DESIRE to prevent harm to innocent civilians in Gaza will ultimately lead to harming the truly innocent: the residents of southern Israel. The residents of Gaza are not innocent, they elected Hamas. The Gazans aren’t hostages; they chose this freely, and must live with the consequences.

The Gaza Strip functions as a state – it has a government and conducts foreign relations, there are schools, medical facilities, there are armed forces and all the other trappings of statehood. We have no territorial conflict with “Gaza State,” and it is not under Israeli siege – it shares a border with Egypt. Despite this, it fires on our citizens without restraint.

Why do our citizens have to live with rocket fire from Gaza while we fight with our hands tied? Why are the citizens of Gaza immune? If the Syrians were to open fire on our towns, would we not attack Damascus? If the Cubans were to fire at Miami, wouldn’t Havana suffer the consequences? That’s what’s called “deterrence” – if you shoot at me, I’ll shoot at you. There is no justification for the State of Gaza being able to shoot at our towns with impunity. We need to flatten entire neighborhoods in Gaza. Flatten all of Gaza. The Americans didn’t stop with Hiroshima – the Japanese weren’t surrendering fast enough, so they hit Nagasaki, too.

There should be no electricity in Gaza, no gasoline or moving vehicles, nothing. Then they’d really call for a ceasefire.

Were this to happen, the images from Gaza might be unpleasant – but victory would be swift, and the lives of our soldiers and civilians spared.

IF THE government isn’t prepared to go all the way on this, it will mean reoccupying the entire Gaza Strip. Not a few neighborhoods in the suburbs, as with Cast Lead, but the entire Strip, like in Defensive Shield, so that rockets can no longer be fired.

There is no middle path here – either the Gazans and their infrastructure are made to pay the price, or we reoccupy the entire Gaza Strip. Otherwise there will be no decisive victory. And we’re running out of time – we must achieve victory quickly. The Netanyahu government is on a short international leash. Soon the pressure will start – and a million civilians can’t live under fire for long. This needs to end quickly – with a bang, not a whimper.

The views expressed in this op-ed do not reflect the editorial line of The Jerusalem Post

There are three options:
*do nothing. Hamas and Hezzbullah will continue to kill Jews.
*continued counter attacks. This gives Hamas power. As Iran's puppet Israel becomes more tightly bound between Hezzbullah and Hamas. There is no political interest in Hamas and the other radicals to not fire rockets.
*go Biblical. I see this as a growing threat that one side or the other is going to attempt to wipe out the other side to end it.

Yet the easy peaceful solution is there, but the guys who stay in power from the killing have the power to stop it.

**Doctadeth**

The problem is that peace won't be able to start because even if the Hamas leadership decide to stop, rocketting will still occur because it's the location, not the politics.

I'd much rather see israel deploy a suitcase nuke in the middle of palestine than for them to do nothing. Going peaceful will not achieve anything and both sides are not going to agree to anything that lasts more than a few weeks tops before the rockets go off again.

The only solution is a DMZ patrolled by UN troops, backed up by anti-rocket solutions.

both sides are at fault, and both sides don't want to admit they are at fault. Both sides issues ultimatums and destroy people.

I have a gut feeling that palestine will resort to civilan shielding, and that a war may actually be very close on the horizon.

**AustonT**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?id=292466

Ariel Sharon's son Gilad Sharon argues that Gaza should be deprived of fuel and electricity entirely, seeking a "decisive solution". Why he'd even use an expression that will immediately draw comparison to the Final Solution is beyond me.

"Zionism is the final solution of the Jewish question."
-Theodor Herzl, 1899.

**Zathras**

Israel rying to make peace with Hamas is impossible.....you can't have peace when the other side has it in their charter a declaration for your destruction as a nation and a people. The only way this is going to end is for Israel to move into Gaza in force and remove all traces of Hamas from there. Unfortunantly this will result in more civilian casualties due to how Hamas positions it's warfighters and gear amongst the population. Until this is done there can be no lasting peace, such as it would be, between the residents of Gaza (which Israel gave to them BTW) and Israel.

**KalashnikovMarine**

Doctadeth wrote:

I have a gut feeling that palestine will resort to civilan shielding, and that a war may actually be very close on the horizon.

Palestine/Hamas does this daily as a matter of course. The more of their own people they can get killed the better it seems.

**Frazzled**

Zathras wrote:
Israel rying to make peace with Hamas is impossible.....you can't have peace when the other side has it in their charter a declaration for your destruction as a nation and a people. The only way this is going to end is for Israel to move into Gaza in force and remove all traces of Hamas from there. Unfortunantly this will result in more civilian casualties due to how Hamas positions it's warfighters and gear amongst the population. Until this is done there can be no lasting peace, such as it would be, between the residents of Gaza (which Israel gave to them BTW) and Israel.

One could do that and then declare Gaza is a free country. Israel could restrict its borders, but any other border/airspace/water is sovereign territory. If rockets still come then declare war and make Gaza part of Israel, with the survivors being immigrants with whatever policy Israel has for immigration to citizenship.

**whembly**

Seems to me someone is poking a sleeping tiger...
Sweet Emprah... MODS, didnt' realize how big this image was... you can delete it if it causes problems.

yes, yes we will.
Reds8n

Thanks man...

Here's the website link for that infograph: http://blog.thejerusalemfund.org/2012/11/inbalance-of-power-understanding.html

**Luco**

TheHammer wrote:
I'm just glad we can all agree that because of what happened in 1947 that the Palestinians deserve anything they get.

As a Zionist who has been to Israel several times let me just say this: the vast majority of Israelis I've known or met, to be fair many are mostly secular and this likely does not apply to the Ultra Ortohodox, hate the way right wing Americans view Israel and how they should act within the region.

Good, then we should completely withdraw.

Frazzled wrote:
So anyone but me have a solution?

Turn it into a parking lot.

**AlmightyWalrus**

AustonT wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?id=292466

Ariel Sharon's son Gilad Sharon argues that Gaza should be deprived of fuel and electricity entirely, seeking a "decisive solution". Why he'd even use an expression that will immediately draw comparison to the Final Solution is beyond me.

"Zionism is the final solution of the Jewish question."
-Theodor Herzl, 1899.

The term "Final Solution" has a whole different meaning today than it did pre-WWII, which I'm sure you're aware of, especially when someone draws comparisons to Hiroshima and Nagasaki, i.e. the almost complete obliteration of a city. Stop being willfully obtuse.

**Frazzled**

Luco wrote:
TheHammer wrote:
I'm just glad we can all agree that because of what happened in 1947 that the Palestinians deserve anything they get.

As a Zionist who has been to Israel several times let me just say this: the vast majority of Israelis I've known or met, to be fair many are mostly secular and this likely does not apply to the Ultra Ortohodox, hate the way right wing Americans view Israel and how they should act within the region.

Good, then we should completely withdraw.

Frazzled wrote:
So anyone but me have a solution?

Turn it into a parking lot.

Well thats ALWAYS Frazzled Plan A, but I was thinking something less fireworky.

**Zathras**

Frazzled wrote:
Zathras wrote:
Israel rying to make peace with Hamas is impossible.....you can't have peace when the other side has it in their charter a declaration for your destruction as a nation and a people. The only way this is going to end is for Israel to move into Gaza in force and remove all traces of Hamas from there. Unfortunantly this will result in more civilian casualties due to how Hamas positions it's warfighters and gear amongst the population. Until this is done there can be no lasting peace, such as it would be, between the residents of Gaza (which Israel gave to them BTW) and Israel.

One could do that and then declare Gaza is a free country. Israel could restrict its borders, but any other border/airspace/water is sovereign territory. If rockets still come then declare war and make Gaza part of Israel, with the survivors being immigrants with whatever policy Israel has for immigration to citizenship.

I think we're already at the point of Gaza being a country in its own right. It has a functioning government in Hamas that was elected by the people of Gaza. The only solution to stop the rockets, IMO, is for Israel to take back Gaza. It will be ugly and condemned by the world community as usual but is the only way that I can see to stop the rockets being fired at Israel. A cease fire will not work because, eventually it will be broken, more than likely by Hamas, and will just start back up again to the pain and suffering of the residents of Gaza.

And I think the gak's about to hit the fan....there are reports of IDF aircraft dropping leaflets over a wide area warning residents to evacuate to the safer areas of Gaza City with directions on where to go to find shelter.