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The campaign rules and some good mission scenarios are actually roughly 2/3 of the book after fluff and army photos. I don't know where this "last few pages" nonsense comes from.
Been out of the game for awhile, trying to find time to get back into it.
tetrisphreak wrote: The campaign rules and some good mission scenarios are actually roughly 2/3 of the book after fluff and army photos. I don't know where this "last few pages" nonsense comes from.
IIRC only around 20 pages are about new rules, a very small part on a 100 pages book; i didn't meant the last 2-3 pages
Also i misunderstood the flyer duels (i didn't had much time to read the other day): the battle are not random: you have to hide the dice that marks your tactic instead of rolling them. sorry for that wrong info.
If someone is curious about the flyer duels the work in this way: in the movement phase your flyer can declare a chellange to another flyer whithin range, then both players roll a dice and add modifiers based on the direction of the attacker to see if the defender manage to escape the duel. Then there are 3 fight phases, and in every phase every player has secretly to choose a tactic to use (like aiming to the weak point or counter-attacking, in every phase there are 3 different tactics for each player) and then check the table to see the result, (some results allow the attacker to fire a signle or multiple weapons and modify his BS, other allow the defender to evade, escape or even fire back!) If you manage to kill an enemy flyer in a duel you gain an extra victory point
In addition evey flyer gains 2 special ability based on the race that can be used during the normal turns by passing Ld/S/I tests, and you can even buy an ace pilot for 50pts that gives other special rules to that flyer
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/12/01 20:29:42
Pages 15-37 are fluff regarding the subsector in which the campaign is fought, and army photos of the designers who participated. The rest of the book is either campaign rules (planetary layouts, special rules, rules for planetary empires tiles, campaign missions) or brand new rules (arena battles, dogfights). So 22/96 fluff, 74/96 content.
Been out of the game for awhile, trying to find time to get back into it.
2012/12/01 21:10:33
Subject: Re:New GW Campaign Book - Crusade of Fire
I wrote a pretty lengthy review about the book on my blog if anyone wants to check it out.
My take is that its not worth 41 bucks, especially if you compare it to other products from say Fantasy Flight or DnD, but for GW it is pretty good. There is a lot of filer from my vantage point, but enough real meat to make any player group very happy. My suggestion is split the cost between friends and have fun!
tastytaste wrote: The rules presented are nothing more than an add-on to Planetary Empires.
You make that sound like that's a bad thing?
The Planetary Empires book comes with one of the thinnest rule-sets in the world. It's maybe 2 pages if that, and printed in a billion languages. Anything that expands upon that paltry effort is a good thing in my book.
And no one thinks the book is worth the cost you pay for it, just like the hardback Chaos Codex isn't worth the price of admission. But it's worth it to me, given that to buy it locally would be over $70. It's all relative.
tastytaste wrote: The rules presented are nothing more than an add-on to Planetary Empires.
You make that sound like that's a bad thing?
The Planetary Empires book comes with one of the thinnest rule-sets in the world. It's maybe 2 pages if that, and printed in a billion languages. Anything that expands upon that paltry effort is a good thing in my book.
And no one thinks the book is worth the cost you pay for it, just like the hardback Chaos Codex isn't worth the price of admission. But it's worth it to me, given that to buy it locally would be over $70. It's all relative.
I took it more as a warning for those of us that don't buy everything that GW produces...kind of letting us know that it's missing a fairly large component if we want to get the most out of it.
Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do
2012/12/02 07:10:54
Subject: Re:New GW Campaign Book - Crusade of Fire
It is nice to see GW trying to actually go back to the old "SUMMER CAMPAIGN" thing they used to do.
Wish they would have set a team to work and run this through the idea ringer for about a year and actually put some meat on the bones here.
Start out with the book, add in the LE stuff.
Then you need some special characters.
Then you need a specific chapter/ faction. Possibly introduce a new race.
Add in a generic campaign system to add in your Planetary Empires,Battlefleet Gothic, the Planetfall, the Apocalypse stuff, the Citys of Death stuff, and introduce a skirmish game ala Necromunda.
Would have been a money maker, especially with LE Forgeworld stuff for all parties that could come to light.
civilians, some strongpoints, some goals, and the other lickies and chewies that can happen with a dedicated team to make it.
I for one am starting to lose the hate. I still want a good batch of the new chaose cultists, and a few of those other guys from that new boxed set, but other then that, I have enough chaos from the old days to put together a fairly meaty force of around 2,000 pts.
They are silly and stupid, but if they can get themselves together enough to at the very least START to go the right way with books like this, maybe they might have someone in there that is still a gamer, and not all bean counters and corperate shills.
I would like to see GW drop the holier then thouh act and actually go back to things like this.
Not a great book, crap price, but a good start, if they can continue in this line of thinking.
At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money.
I know someone who has got his hands on the book, after some flickering through he immediately Facebook-messaged me that he wanted to tell me something.
This guy has been playing 40k since 2nd ed or something and he is completely blown away about how cool this campaign is, he was planning events for our gaming group but threw it all away when he got his hands on crusade of fire.
To me this was a clear sign that it was good :p going to get it myself somewhere soon, he also mentioned some really cool necron stuff... still in the dark what that was all about :p except that I know that chaos devotees were digging in a necron planet (which we all know isn't good)
tetrisphreak wrote: The campaign rules and some good mission scenarios are actually roughly 2/3 of the book after fluff and army photos. I don't know where this "last few pages" nonsense comes from.
IIRC only around 20 pages are about new rules, a very small part on a 100 pages book; i didn't meant the last 2-3 pages
Also i misunderstood the flyer duels (i didn't had much time to read the other day): the battle are not random: you have to hide the dice that marks your tactic instead of rolling them. sorry for that wrong info.
If someone is curious about the flyer duels the work in this way: in the movement phase your flyer can declare a chellange to another flyer whithin range, then both players roll a dice and add modifiers based on the direction of the attacker to see if the defender manage to escape the duel. Then there are 3 fight phases, and in every phase every player has secretly to choose a tactic to use (like aiming to the weak point or counter-attacking, in every phase there are 3 different tactics for each player) and then check the table to see the result, (some results allow the attacker to fire a signle or multiple weapons and modify his BS, other allow the defender to evade, escape or even fire back!) If you manage to kill an enemy flyer in a duel you gain an extra victory point
In addition evey flyer gains 2 special ability based on the race that can be used during the normal turns by passing Ld/S/I tests, and you can even buy an ace pilot for 50pts that gives other special rules to that flyer
You pick the tactic, but I found it interesting. The extra maneuvers you can do seem pretty cool too.
warboss wrote: Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
I like it. I got the Fantasy campaign book and the 40k version is just what I expected. Old school campaign stories and fluff and then some fun rules on top. They've even got cut out pages of cards for the arena stuff at the back. It's nice inspiration for how to run a campaign, but rather than make it all fluff centric they've tried to make it player centric. It's the best bits of White Dwarf without the adverts.
2012/12/02 11:51:27
Subject: Re:New GW Campaign Book - Crusade of Fire
Grot 6 wrote: It is nice to see GW trying to actually go back to the old "SUMMER CAMPAIGN" thing they used to do.
I don't see these two as being related. After buying Blood in the Badlands and seeing that it was a glorified White Dwarf in hardback with fewer adverts, I just didn't see anything to get excited about with Crusade of Fire. I wish it were otherwise, I really do.
To be honest Crusade of Fire is enjoyable. It's the sort of thing that reminds me of their old articles from year's back. You know, the ones they would publish piece by piece in WD over six months?
It's basically a compilation of that - and cheaper than 6 WDs too.
Now only a CSM player.
2012/12/02 13:09:12
Subject: Re:New GW Campaign Book - Crusade of Fire
tastytaste wrote: The rules presented are nothing more than an add-on to Planetary Empires.
You make that sound like that's a bad thing?
The Planetary Empires book comes with one of the thinnest rule-sets in the world. It's maybe 2 pages if that, and printed in a billion languages. Anything that expands upon that paltry effort is a good thing in my book.
And no one thinks the book is worth the cost you pay for it, just like the hardback Chaos Codex isn't worth the price of admission. But it's worth it to me, given that to buy it locally would be over $70. It's all relative.
That's my opinion as well. The campaign book I would have liked to see, at minimum, would have been "Here is how you run Planetary Empires." This could include what the various bits and nubbins do, terrain generation charts for each tile type (and of course, what GW Brand Terrain goes on each tile...) and "abstract" rules for playing out other matters happening during the campaign. For instance, if two players are running a campaign against each other, they can move on other tiles with parts of their army, choose a strategy, choose an amount of resources to expend, then roll on a series of charts to determine the outcome. That way the two friends can focus on the important battles but still find out how things are going in the rest of the theatre, like the General personally taking part in one area, then receiving intel on the rest.
A greater book would include further scenarios for Defense, Raid, Battle (hey, anyone remember those from 3e?) and special skirmish rules for smaller games. If you include rules like that, it's a great in for new players as well. Say there's a big campaign at the LGS. New players walk in and say "Cool! I want in on that, but I only has the pocket monies for a single box of these Eldars or Guardsmen." "No problem!" says the GM. "There are skirmish rules for when we hire Mercs to do recon or sabotage missions. Assemble, Prime, and Paint your models with official GW Brand Glue and GW Brand Paints and you can take part in the fun by being a vital part of the campaign!" "Sweet!" says the noob. "How accessable and fun! And these rules! How Cinematic!(tm) I was going to get a Camero, but instead I should give GW ALL of my pocket monies!"
TL;DR I like PE as a tool. Now if only GW would give me a reason to buy them...
Therion wrote:
6th edition lands on June 23rd!
Good news. This is the best time in the hobby. Full of promise. GW lets us down each time and we know it but secretly we're hoping that this is the edition that GW gives us a balanced game that can also be played competitively at tournaments. I'm loving it.
I take it there are no new rules for faction specific fortifcations or for the defence line/bunkers?
Sounds like a number of reprinted rules and images from the Aeronautica supplement - which had quite a few reprints fromm previous supplements..................
I looked at Blood in the badlands and again did not buy - this looks similar
very disapointing again
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/02 13:36:58
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Nagashek wrote: TL;DR I like PE as a tool. Now if only GW would give me a reason to buy them...
The reason I haven't bought planetary empires yet is the cheeky business about keeping the hive city tile out of the box and selling it as an extra for £2.50 a time!
The bloody thing is on the cover of the product but not in the box!.
I emailed them my complaint, They did not respond. I protested with my wallet.
I've preordered the crusade of fire book, not received it yet but it sounds like I will like it a lot.
If it gives me the urge to run a campaign I may buy planetary empires... or I may just make do with settlers of catan tiles.
Or buy a map and draw a grid on it...
If only there was a new company selling plastic hex grids that can be stuck on anything?
Looks like you could possibly draw on that with a dry marker to track a campaign??
tetrisphreak wrote: The campaign rules and some good mission scenarios are actually roughly 2/3 of the book after fluff and army photos. I don't know where this "last few pages" nonsense comes from.
There are a few pages of rules at the back of the book in addition to the rules in the front, that you probably wouldn't notice from an initial readthrough. I looked at it yesterday in a bit of detail and can't remember what the rules were for offhand, but since there seems to be 60 pages of filler (the playthroughs that should have been in WD) I'd already decided I wasn't getting it.
The UK stores seem to have a lot of copies left
Automatically Appended Next Post:
DarkStarSabre wrote: To be honest Crusade of Fire is enjoyable. It's the sort of thing that reminds me of their old articles from year's back. You know, the ones they would publish piece by piece in WD over six months?
It's basically a compilation of that - and cheaper than 6 WDs too.
Not if you've already got a WD subscription
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/03 09:06:59
2012/12/03 12:06:16
Subject: Re:New GW Campaign Book - Crusade of Fire
I actually used some 1" hex graph paper to do some maps with one time. It worked about the same as using the adjustable tile system of Mighty Empires/ Planetary empires.
They sell it by the pad for around 6-10.00 at staples. The sheets cover a butcher block and can be set up on a standing easal. each hex is an inch, and you can use it in the same way as your 8" X11" paper.
I'm getting interested in the book, by the way. As much as I hate GW, it sounds good that they are starting to do things like this again.
Hope its a trend.
At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money.
We did a small mighty Empires campaign over the space of a weekend. One of the players didn't show up which threw a spanner in the works (and created something of an imbalance in Order vs Chaos) but overall it was a lot of fun and something I'd want to do again.
I hope this book - whenever BattleFront gets around to shipping it - works for such an event.
I was a little confused when I first got the book as I didn't realize it was an add-on to PE. There are some rules for specific planet "death world" mission types. Which I cannot find in the book. Not sure if those are in the PE rules or not. If someone could shed some light on it, I would be very appreciative. I looked back into my WD's and found the Death World expansion (IIRC it is April 2012). One of the planets in Crusade of Fire is also mentioned there, Alfrost. But no rules for the planet missions in the CoF book or WD's.....
I love the new fliers rules. The fighter ace upgrades are awesome and I can't wait to try out the dogfight rules in a game.
Harriticus wrote: Well this sounds like a fairly big disaster. Glad I didnt bite.
"Good. but not $41 good." doesn't exactly sound like a disaster to me. I'm curious what your definition of "disaster" is.
You get the book home, and read it. You put it in a bookshelf. You go to sleep. Later, after the arson investigator submits his report, you learn that GW used a chemical in the binding agent that causes the pages to spontaneously combust after reading it. You were the sole survivor of of the blaze, which consumed everyone you loved and all of your belongings, including of course your warhams.
Later, GWS has a charity for you to get you back on your feet; and give you a complimentary battleforce. It's Tau.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
My local GW Battle Bunker had six copies of Crusade Of Fire to sell upon opening on Saturday, Dec. 1. All six copies were gone within about 90 minutes. Not surprising since it sold out on the GW North America website in less than two days during advance ordering.
There are more than a half dozen copies on eBay right now. Checking the completed listings there shows quite a few copies already sold for $80-$100 and one that went for $150 US. The list price of the book in the US is if I recall $41.25. Glad I got mine by advance order.
"I hate movies where the men wear shorter skirts than the women." -- Mystery Science Theater 3000
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Check out Cinematic Titanic, the new movie riffing project from Joel Hodgson and the original cast of MST3K.
See my latest eBay auctions at this link.
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Mine is still being shipped and won't be here until tomorrow. Feels lame getting it days late. Boo. They shipped it on time, I'm guessing FedEx is being stupid.
GW uses FedEx ground (not express/overnight) as their basic shipping. They also ship so that advance orders arrive shortly after (not before) release date these days unless it's being shipped for pickup to one of their stores. This has been their policy for about two years now.
"I hate movies where the men wear shorter skirts than the women." -- Mystery Science Theater 3000
"Elements of the past and the future combining to create something not quite as good as either." -- The Mighty Boosh
Check out Cinematic Titanic, the new movie riffing project from Joel Hodgson and the original cast of MST3K.
See my latest eBay auctions at this link.
"We are building a fighting force of extraordinary magnitude. You have our gratitude!" - Kentucky Fried Movie
Ebay is why making this a limited release is such a bad idea on GW's part. They get less revenue than they would as a full release and the big winners are those that sell it right after receiving it is since they're almost guaranteed to double your money. The effect for GW is that the item is only available for regular sale for a couple of days leaving regulars like myself ticked off because I'm not willing to plop $41 without looking at it first, and there's no way I'm paying $100+ for a rules expansion. I think they're doing this to avoid internet resellers, but this is a stupid way of doing it.
Of course if you do want to sell it on ebay the key is not to hold onto it for too long. The limited release dark vengeance is a perfect example of this. I saw that box going for $175+ soon after release and I managed to get one for $83, about what I would have paid using a discounter.
Unix wrote: ...leaving regulars like myself ticked off because I'm not willing to plop $41 without looking at it first...
Trust me, you're not missing out on much. Unless battle reports and "look at my army" articles are a strong selling point with you, this book is not worth the purchase price. I learned that the hard way with Blood in the Badlands.
I'm actually a very, very big fan of this book. The arena rules look to be a lot of fun, and the demon world rules, if not perfect, are a great starting point for many fun and interesting campaign ideas (much like the majority of the book.) Considering the amount GW fans throw at GW for absolute crap (see 6th edition various collector's edition books) I'm perfectly happy with this purchase.
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