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 Dunklezahn wrote:


Of course the flip side and almost as likely alternative is that your squads aspiring champion who costs less than 50pts might explode into a Daemon Prince...

Which isn't fun either, certainly not for your opponent.

DA and BT/SW can take the Storm Talon if I'm remembering my WD correctly.

No, BRB faq said only vanilla marines for storm talon.

Also, the ability to take certain Elites as troops if you take certain models also exists in C:sm so nothing special there.

C:SM only allows bikes to be troops, you can take zerks, chosen, plauge marines, noise marines and thousand sons, so theres 5 other troops choices.
i could also argue that tau only have 2 different troops choices aswell and one of those is useless, and they cannot take anything else as troops.

Kind of agree with you there. I'm not thrilled about the price either, but really, this hobby isn't for the financially squeemish! lol

Probably the only thing we can agree on haha

No, BRB faq said only vanilla marines for storm talon.

Doh! Looks like you are right on that account, but like I said, it hardly matters considering fortifications.

C:SM only allows bikes to be troops, you can take zerks, chosen, plauge marines, noise marines and thousand sons, so theres 5 other troops choices.
i could also argue that tau only have 2 different troops choices aswell and one of those is useless, and they cannot take anything else as troops.

The generic Captain yes. If I'm not mistaken (don't have my Marine codex handy) some of the special characters allow you special options as well. Even if they don't, our ability to take "zerks, chosen, plauge marines, noise marines and thousand sons" is not a bonus in this edition. It's another penalty. They actually counted as troops right from the start before. That's the point and why some are upset at that. It forces certain arbitrary limits on things that weren't that powerful to begin with and really didn't need to be limited like that. The ability to give a lord a mark to "unlock" troop types is a step back. Not a bonus.

To your point about the Tau only having 2 troops. Yes that's correct. But the number of troops they have is in proportion to the number of entries in the other slots. You don't have a situation of internal balance where one entry has between 9/12 entries and the next has 2. It's a stupidly top heavy set of entries in the Chaos book with MANY entries in the wrong section. Maulerfiend should have been fast attack, and Warpsmith and DAs should both have been elites with the cult troops maintaining the price increase they got but staying put in troops (IMO anyway).

They set this book up to almost force you to play a mono-god army if you want to make heavy use of the cult troops, but then set it up so that a mono god army will be extremely difficult to run with any success. I'm more of a fluff player than a competitive one, but I don't want to get beat up all the time just for playing a fluff army.

Now on top of all that, let's just pretend that the new and long-awaited Tau dex is now out. Your troop section drops a LD point. Instead of adding all of the cool things you've been waiting for like Guevesa (probably butchered that - I'm referring to the infantry units the Tau raise from places like conquered human worlds), or new versions of crisis suits you get - no new troops at all. All of the crisis suits have been moved to Elites (so that you can now no longer fill your Elites slot with Crisis suits and your Heavy slot with Broadsides - they are now fighting for the SAME slot), and you get a second version of the Vespid entry that is exactly like the first entry minus everything that's good about the first entry and they are pointed way too high for what they do. You'd be miffed about all that wouldn't you? That, in a nutshell is the issue some of us have with this book.

Probably the only thing we can agree on haha

LOL probably true!

Ok Warp Angels how would you feel if your long awaited new Tau Dex was the exact same Dex as before with very little new material, very little changes to fix the problems from 5th ed and generally just weighed down all the things you actually *DID* like from the previous ed... and then you had to pay £30 for it... or $60 or however much it is over there? Simply put I don't get £30s worth of enjoyment out of this book... thats 10 pints at the pub for me... and I'd enjoy that one evening a lot more and a lot longer than this book.

 JbR of the Endless Spire wrote:
Ok Warp Angels how would you feel if your long awaited new Tau Dex was the exact same Dex as before with very little new material, very little changes to fix the problems from 5th ed and generally just weighed down all the things you actually *DID* like from the previous ed... and then you had to pay £30 for it... or $60 or however much it is over there? Simply put I don't get £30s worth of enjoyment out of this book... thats 10 pints at the pub for me... and I'd enjoy that one evening a lot more and a lot longer than this book.

You mean like 4th edition tau? It was kinda the same thing between 3rd and 4th, it's infact the SAME situation they had between editions, with points changes around the book, with worthless new units that don't do much more for them (Vespids were added in 4th for note)

The fact that a tau player doesn't know this is almost lolworthy.

 ShatteredBlade wrote:
The book was bland enough that the final two chaos players at my FLGS finally sold their CSM on ebay.

This is what I'm toying around with. What I absolutely dislike is that marks do not transfer weapons options, like Havocs with blastmasters, Bikers with sonic blasters, etc. Another point is the loss of leadership or fearlessness, look at Obliterators.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 ShatteredBlade wrote:
The book was bland enough that the final two chaos players at my FLGS finally sold their CSM on ebay.

This is what I'm toying around with. What I absolutely dislike is that marks do not transfer weapons options, like Havocs with blastmasters, Bikers with sonic blasters, etc. Another point is the loss of leadership or fearlessness, look at Obliterators.

yeah it is a huge letdown. The endless rehash of the 3rd edition book is getting tired.

dafuq are these ?

you dont take a farseer in an eldar army or a reaper exarch to man your aegis/icarus ?

i never said all chaos players were slowed but its you wont figure out the best possible combinations in the codex on day 1 will you and those codeces have been out for quite a while - giving the players of those codeces time to figure out what all the powerful combinations are.

how fast do you guys read ? I mean If I see a flyer tri las armed and it costs like a tri las pred , which doesnt fly , and on top of that I have the option to put stuff in to that flyer , then how long do I need to think about how good it is ?

Or If my troops get a dedicted flyer transport , with bonus rules to not kill the pasangers inside and some realy great firepower for low points , how long do I design my list.

Or if my csm ignore Ld[because they have ATKF] build in ultra grit . they also have one of the best chaos icons ever[aka the wolf totem] on top of a hidden power ax and a free chaos mark giving me counter attack and that is not all unlike other csm my csm get drop pods possible termi squad leaders , a rending upgrade for one model etc etc how long does it take me to test an army to start spaming them and not taking those much worse claw guys ?

It's not a broken dex, it's mid tier,

no one likes a mid tier dex. dex rarly age well in w40k and if they do then they are awesome dex [IG/SW] and not mid tier stuff. If your codex is the first in an edition and people say its "mid tier" then in 2 years its going to suck hard. it will suck hard against the older and good dex and it will be totaly unfun comparing to the dex coming after it .

It's not a great book, I have played a few games with it but my chaos marines will be sitting in the war cupboard until the next codex comes out......it's pants in my opinion. Thank goodness I have some other armies to use in the meantime lol

Selling at ebay but keeping an ally detachment: Lord on bike, winged DP, Sorcerer, 2x 10 CSM, some Cultists, Bikers, NM, Havocs, and Obliterators.

Well I FINALLY won a game with the new book yesterday. 6th attempt at though. Against armies I've pwned in the past with the previous codex.

Really missing the choice of troops, now we HAVE to take lords. AND remember we only get two. Goodbye my two DPs till I play Apoc games again.

My main peeve is the lack of Drop Pods. I can live with the rest of it. Even the pointless mutilators and the warp talons (why did they think we even needed them?). But the only way I can seem to do well is going back to boring old gun line CSMs. Really really sick of that being the only way to win these days. I'll keep trying to get across the board. But LRs got more expensive and you quickly run out of fast attack slots. Which can't score. Helbrutes got nerfed, If they'd only been given the deamon 5+ save, I'd have understood. And what's up with the Noise Marines now? No cc weapon with SBs? So much use for a previously assaulty unit with assault weapons. You're basically as well just going vanilla SMs across the board. Kinda making it a bit pointelss that they're "different" from regular marines, when that's all you can take to hold anything. don't even get me started on how pointless cultists are. If I wanted to play meat shield, I'd have played Guard.

But most importantly, they didn't check their facts. There's some glaring mistakes in there, I mean being able to give Possessed a fearless icon? Really? Just plain obvious mistakes.

I was very dissapointed. I got the customisation I was asking for, got it up the ying yang.

G

 Grumzimus wrote:


My main peeve is the lack of Drop Pods. I can live with the rest of it. Even the pointless mutilators and the warp talons (why did they think we even needed them?). But the only way I can seem to do well is going back to boring old gun line CSMs. Really really sick of that being the only way to win these days. I'll keep trying to get across the board. But LRs got more expensive and you quickly run out of fast attack slots. Which can't score. Helbrutes got nerfed, If they'd only been given the deamon 5+ save, I'd have understood. And what's up with the Noise Marines now? No cc weapon with SBs? So much use for a previously assaulty unit with assault weapons. You're basically as well just going vanilla SMs across the board. Kinda making it a bit pointelss that they're "different" from regular marines, when that's all you can take to hold anything. don't even get me started on how pointless cultists are. If I wanted to play meat shield, I'd have played Guard.

But most importantly, they didn't check their facts. There's some glaring mistakes in there, I mean being able to give Possessed a fearless icon? Really? Just plain obvious mistakes.

I was very dissapointed. I got the customisation I was asking for, got it up the ying yang.

G

I knew there'd be no Drop Pods, as they claim to be afraid to make CSM too similar to regular SM. Goes against the fluff and common sense, but oh well.

It irks me how badly mobile the army is, though. No vehicle in the Codex is Fast. Nothing is Open-topped. Nothing Infiltrates or Scouts naturally. A single piece of tricky, expensive wargear guides reserves. It's like they were rationing USRs.

And yes, it's bad comedy that they give many units tons of options, 95% of them so terrible you end up fielding plainer, boring units most of the time.

There's some decent ideas here, but they are mild and don't make up for the general lack of inspiration and theme. It's a lesser codex that will get steamrolled by whatever Ward codex that comes next.

There's some decent ideas here, but they are mild and don't make up for the general lack of inspiration and theme. It's a lesser codex that will get steamrolled by whatever Ward codex that comes next.

It's a pity when it shows that Ward is probably one of the better, innovative writers when it comes to doing an army now, at the very least we'd have some of the new options for the old stuff. It's like Kelly redid the points, than added in the new units separate, which makes an odd case of there being very few cases of the new weapons except on the new stuff..

Probably one of the most innovative codex you could get creative with, and we got one that was playing it like it was gav thorpe.

 Grumzimus wrote:


But most importantly, they didn't check their facts. There's some glaring mistakes in there, I mean being able to give Possessed a fearless icon? Really? Just plain obvious mistakes.

This annoyed me too, the more I go through the book, the more I notice a constant overlapping of rules. For instance The Axe of Blind Fury gives you Rage, but to take it you need the mark of Khorne, which gives you Rage...
or Berzerkers taking the Icon of Wrath giving them double furious charge!

Just points to a lack of care in writing and checking the book, such a shame.

I can wait for DA dex. I wont play them am too much of an IG player . But 3 new builds , probably with drasticly different game play and the possibility of mixing it up and maybe adding ally and it will be tons of fun . The DA fandom deservs it . the chaos did too , but as chaos isnt eldar , kelly could only do a SW light codex.

Well, I guess that Kelly will also write the new Eldar codex. Mix feelings here.

and it is going to be glorious

Do check the icons though. They also offer a bonus in combat, so they're not completely useless, and if I recall correctly they're cheaper for squads where that is the only bonus.

Icon of Khorne allows you to re-roll charge distances.

Icon of despair is pretty useless though.

Played it during my November break. Getting a prince from the terminator champ was a pretty fun game changer

Outside of that I had a blast scaring the opposing team with my "cheap-marine" horde and a Chaos Lord that can break face

 GMR wrote:

 Grumzimus wrote:


But most importantly, they didn't check their facts. There's some glaring mistakes in there, I mean being able to give Possessed a fearless icon? Really? Just plain obvious mistakes.

This annoyed me too, the more I go through the book, the more I notice a constant overlapping of rules. For instance The Axe of Blind Fury gives you Rage, but to take it you need the mark of Khorne, which gives you Rage...
or Berzerkers taking the Icon of Wrath giving them double furious charge!

Just points to a lack of care in writing and checking the book, such a shame.

Which is why they get the icon cheaper - they also cannot lose FC from shooting, so only want the icon for reroll of charge.