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I think we've all learned that lesson by now...

And that doesn't minimize his responsibility. A little victim blaming, maybe?

 greywulf wrote:
And that doesn't minimize his responsibility. A little victim blaming, maybe?

Huh?

I'm not sure what it is you're getting at there...

Wait, when was he hit by a car? Was it two years ago? Because he hasn't been updating more than once every six month anyway.

Sigh....he's making it very hard to not be a horrible person here.

Alp: First sentence was following up what you said. Second sentence was in response to this little bit of *wisdom* (sarcastic face)

ced1106 wrote:
No, but I think you've learned your lesson about the risks of backing the first KS project of a creator.

Ah, gotcha!

Now it all makes sense - thanks!

As for the 'accident' here - the timing of it all...if it 'just' happened, shouldn't he have had 2 or 3 more miniatures sculpted?

Or did he get hit by a car right after he posted his previous update?

Either way, we're borked.

Doesn't he have a new baby? Maybe he just needed some quiet time to himself and just happened to be on his motorcycle when the idea struck.

 greywulf wrote:
And that doesn't minimize his responsibility. A little victim blaming, maybe?

Maybe. I've noticed that Dakka backers tend to repeat mistakes in KS because they're not acknowledging the behavior of KS and repeat the same-old same-old behavior.

So far, this falls into several patterns:

Dakka backer calls KS a pre-order and refuses to acknowledge that KS isn't a pre-order.
Project is delayed or fails to deliver.
Backer gets upset that the KS project is not behaving like a pre-order.

International Dakka backer is upset that a KS project isn't fulfilling his pledge like a domestic backer.
International Dakka backer backs another KS project that's not domestic.
Project does not fulfill international pledges like domestic ones.
International Dakka backer gets upset.

Dakka backer says they have consumer rights or a project must fulfill its obligations, and refuses to acknowledge that, in practice, this means nothing.
Dakka backer gets upset.

It shouldn't be news that a "first time" KS project by a "one man shop" fails to deliver or is severely delayed. I back such projects, both accepting the risk, and reducing it by not backing it with much money (eg. $10 or $25).

What I'm not seeing are posts which attempt not to repeat this cycle. Will backers of this project find themselves in a similar situation in a later project? Will history be repeating itself?

Beyond Dakka, I follow BGG, and am noticing that, for CMON, the cycle is being repeated. CMON has a clear history of its treatment of backers (eg. shipping costs, no communication, etc.) yet the same complaints appear post-funding.

Could be, however, that these complaints are made by new backers, while those who have experienced these problems have moved on. However, that doesn't mean anyone new to KS doesn't have a wealth of information to research KS from previous forum posts on various boards.

Not me, I've stopped backing kickstarters, gave up on this one. So, stick that in your pipe and smoke mr high and mighty I'm to good to complain about kickstarters.

Hard to see how Jody doesn't deserve the OCCASIONAL criticisms/pokes he gets on this one.

 Alpharius wrote:
Hard to see how Jody doesn't deserve the OCCASIONAL criticisms/pokes he gets on this one.

I would agree with this sentiment. It's not like the guy is providing regular weekly progress updates like Soda Pop, Conan or Dream Pod 9.

SPM ran late on SDE, but they were consistent in showing where the money went, and what they were doing with it. They were clear and direct about problems. NAS is getting similar weekly updates, following the excellent precedent in the SDE KS. .

Conan is following the same path, demonstrating professional management and transparency with backer money.

The Pod always has something to say each week, even when 80% of the time they're just holding out their hand to ask for more money.


If he were showing actual WIP that demonstrated actual weekly progress, I think he might deserve a little slack. Rather than a parade of excuses for showing zero progress over months.

There's a few things here that are off:

Projects fail to deliver. That's a possibility for many projects.
However, there are several aspects to this:
1. Many of the projects that fail are generally started in the concept phase. Looking at Clang's failure, that KS was started in order to develop the technology for that type of game. Outside of miniatures, the factors of Kickstarter failures are much higher. Miniatures however are incredibly simple in the concept to production phase process. Whether is is done via digitally, or physically sculpted, miniatures follow a very basic path: Concept > Sculpting > Masters > Mold production > Production Mini's.
2. Failed Kickstarters also must disclose how the funds were used. Having that documentation can show where funding ran out, and make sure that it wasn't just some big fraud. Again, mini's have a very straight forward set of objectives that need to be funded. While they can have some problems in design when it comes to making the masters, there isn't nearly as risky as something like a software development. That's the reason why for any game I kickstart, I only put in for $10-$25.

As for delays, at this point everyone should expect kickstarters to be delayed. The big difference in delays however is for there to be clear signs of progress. Communication is a very big part of this. If a project is far behind schedule, but regularly posting updates showing progress, people are generally fine with it. It's when there is a distinct lack of shown progress that things have problems.

The attitude of backers usually reflects upon how the creator acts. Looking at other kickstarters in comparison it's easy to see why there seems to be such animosity with this kickstarter.

1. The Troll Forged Assimilation Aline Host. This is another long delayed kickstarter, which is now 2 years past it's projected delivery date. And much like Imbrian's project, people have received some miniatures. However, Ed over for TF has been very open with communication, has been showing his progress, and has been producing the mini's to be ready for shipping. He's also been very open with that the KS was a bit too much and it would take more time due to the increase in models and running his company, producing other companies's models. People seem to have some unhappiness over the delay, but due to the shown progress, there is a general "We will get it eventually". With the Imbrian's there is considerable doubt that everything will even get finished. There is little communication beyond "Oh X problem has happened. I haven't been able to work on this"

2. Troll Outpost Miniatures. This was a smaller kickstarter that funded last summer. For something that was supposed to primarily fund the productions of old and already completed sculpts, the project went several month past due. Mixed with the poor communication from the creator, several half truths and potential lies, there were many backers getting rightfully upset with the project. Now there there seems to be a stream of backers confirming delivery, myself included, the project has a much better light to it. Are there still some issues with the campaign? Yes, but people are now getting their models, and it shows that money was not run off with or wasted.

The International Backer getting upset bit is fine

I generally agree with RivenSkull.

Software games are inherently risky, which is why I simply won't back them. The problem is that it can appear to be done, but be very far from it.

Miniatures show very clearly how far any given object is from completion. Some of the stuff is binary (e.g. tool cut; all minis produced), so there's no question about completion status.

Delays are very common, far too common and accepted, IMO. What is good is that we are starting to see more professional management, as I noted above. That is going to make a big difference if KS games are going to sustain after the initial surge of 2013.

Backer attitude ties very much to creator action, and justly so.

Kingdom Death is something I backed a very long time ago, and it looks to run about a year and a half late; however, the scope is enormous, and real progress has been shown. Also, uncompromising, masterwork quality. I'm not much bothered by the lateness, thinking it's hurt Adam more than me. The awesomeness is covering for the lateness.

Good comments.

So how do you *avoid* getting in a situation where you're making an angry comment? I doubt a creator who mismanages a project will read these comments, so they won't improve their behavior.

Posting angry comments gives anyone who tries to do a search when checking out a creator before backing future projects something to go by.

ced1106 wrote:Good comments.

So how do you *avoid* getting in a situation where you're making an angry comment? I doubt a creator who mismanages a project will read these comments, so they won't improve their behavior.

I find the best thing is to try and act professionally/like an adult when commenting. Well laid out criticisms usually get a response, at least the first few times. If a creator is so far in the hole, such as this KS, comments usually do nothing except inform other people to stay away.

Joyboozer wrote:Posting angry comments gives anyone who tries to do a search when checking out a creator before backing future projects something to go by.

Yeah, after a while it becomes less a point to try and get a response from the creator and more to make sure other people know to stay away.

With his latest update we now know theres been progress since he last showed us the Death Knight 6 months ago. It's almost mind boggling how little progress that is, but at least theres some.

Right then...

Update #60

May 9 2015
The Bimonthly Progress Report
5 Comments
6 likes

Alright! I've made some good progress on the Death Knight. I redid the entire stomach section to make the ringmail cleaner. The most challenging part of this model has been symmetry and resisting the urge to go full steam ahead and laying on the details. A mistake would mean having to remove the fine detail to get the shape identical on both sides. It's a lot harder than sculpting cloth or muscle!





I also had the pleasure of getting a fantastic artist to work his magic on the Lich for the "box art". Jaime De Garnica sent over some photos of the lich I gave him and it's just awesome. I'll be looking forward to what he does with the rest




And lastly, I've been researching witchcraft, Wicca, and Norse runes for new insights and ideas to incorporate into the rules and the bone reading mechanic. One element of Wicca that I think would lend itself well to a game of magic and summoning is the idea of waxing and waning powers. Certain creatures might be stronger in one phase than in others and it would lend an extra element of complexity to combats and warband construction. Sound fun?

Just don't look back at the November 2014 update... Sigh.

 plastictrees wrote:
Just don't look back at the November 2014 update... Sigh.

He's got a sash now! Totally took months of sculpting for that sash!

6 months to be exact.

The most challenging part of this model has been symmetry and resisting the urge to go full steam ahead and laying on the details.

Points for being the most creative way to say "I did absolutely nothing these last six months" ever, though

 RiTides wrote:

The most challenging part of this model has been symmetry and resisting the urge to go full steam ahead and laying on the details.

Points for being the most creative way to say "I did absolutely nothing these last six months" ever, though

I like the idea that he sat down to sculpt every day but forced himself away. "NO Jodi! Restrain yourself!"

And by like I of course mean that I am deeply saddened.

TO really get the tears (of frustration? of rage?) flowing:

NOVEMBER 2014 Update pic of the Knight:



5 Months later, the MAY 2015 Update pic of the Knight:

This evening, I'm going to play "spot the differences" with my 5-year-old, and see how he does!

...another update?!?

Update #61

May 24 2015
Update #61
0 Comments

Here's more WIP on the Death Knight.




The inventory on the Beer & D6's and ifrit has taken a good beating lately so I'll be spending some time replenishing stock and getting some more resins done and up in the shop.

That's all!

Have a great weekend

Just over two weeks to do some scroll work on his hip, Jody is accelerating his pace to dangerous, some might say reckless levels!

This is why Imbrian arts is so money while Reaper is in the poorhouse; one company just keeps pumping out decent product while the other takes their time to do it right, no wait, now it's right, nope, start again, better slow down here.

Good times!

GOOD TIMES!

Tim The Enchanterer on July 18

3DG, I switched to completed sculpts years ago. Never recieved an answer or minis.

Creator Jody Siegel on July 19

Hey Tim! If you were expecting a package you should not have waited this long! Message me what you want.

Alpharius 5 days ago

Well, we've all been expecting a package for some time now...

Creator Jody Siegel 4 days ago

Hehe, but seriously guys, if you requested finished models be sent to you, don't wait six months and not follow up. I'm still waiting for Tim to get back to me on his order. If I don't give you a shipping confirmation and it's been more than a week, ask again.

Updatewise, I had one of my clients come back to me in need of some alterations/repairs so I'll try and have it done asap so I can get back to the death knight.

Atomic facepalm!

So yeah, this campaign's money is long gone, and the only way for stuff to happen here is if Jody makes more money...somewhere else.

And before Rhode Island's First Son chimes in, I don't want any stupid little fething mushroom men!!!

He's....still working on the Death Knight.
Which I'd comfortably say was 50% done over two months ago.

This is not the pace of a man who does this for a living.