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@JY2 Yep that's the uber screamer.

@SCP Thanks. Everyone I played this year was cool, even the guy who beat me like a read headed stepchild.

@ Jantkin It's very understandable for the 180 degree rule to be upsetting in your situation, however other factors help balance out the meta. First and foremost with the presence of forgeworld ack ack meant Cron air stayed home, and the couple lists that had 3 or flyers weren't at the top tables. That means nids have to deal with fewer flyers.

Having a vendetta the only time the the 180 rule effected me was in my round against sisters a Vendetta with heavy bolters was able to go into hover mode, move 12" and rear shot an exorcist that was already down 1 hull point instead of going 6" and giving the exorcist a side shot against AV11. The difference was minuscule, it blew up without needing the AV10, and in hindsight math hammer favors the side shot.

Most importantly to me was I had no arguments over what a 22.5 degree down angle is. I didn't have to model my flyer at a 22.5 degree down angle to reduce it's minimum range from about 12" to about 3" while maintaining no penalty to it's maximum range. I didn't have to use a level and a protractor to find an exact 22.5 degree angle when attaching my flyer to it's base. I didn't have to argue if modeling the angle a flyer flies at is modeling for advantage. I didn't have to argue anything, or waste time in calculating or debating what a 45 degree arc without bringing the proper tools to accurately measure the firing arc of a flyer. All I had to do was move models, roll dice, and have fun.

Which guy beat you like a red headed step child? What did they run?

Your list was rough and just kept coming. I saw enough Screamers and Flamers for my like!

SCP Yeeman wrote:
Which guy beat you like a red headed step child? What did they run?

Your list was rough and just kept coming. I saw enough Screamers and Flamers for my like!

I saw 24 flamers and 26 screamers!

 yakface wrote:

 Kingsley wrote:

~Consider revisiting the flyer 180 degree vertical line of sight ruling. I totally understand why you guys did this, but contrary to predicted effects it played a role in two out of three games that I faced enemy flyers in, allowing shots that would typically be prohibited.

Can you please elaborate on the in-game situations you describe? The more detail the better.

In one game, I had a unit of Scouts about 19" away from a Dakkajet, which moved to about 1" away and fired down on them, killing several. The rulebook flyer rules would not allow this attack and the Dakkajet would not be able to move into position to attack the Scouts because it has to move at least 18." Ultimately my opponent wasn't able to kill all the Scouts, so it didn't cost me the game, but with different dice it could have. I don't remember the specifics of the other event and it's possible my opponent in that game could have moved differently to get the same shot he took. My impression at the time was that cramped board space meant that he couldn't have done it without the FAQ allowing him to approach closer than normally allowed and still get shots.

I ended up winning both of those games and I'm not sour about it at all, but predictions about the ruling having no effect were not borne out in my experience.

It just occurred to me that I didn't ask anyone at BAO who they were on Dakka. It would have been nice to put more faces to names.

 schadenfreude wrote:

Most importantly to me was I had no arguments over what a 22.5 degree down angle is. I didn't have to model my flyer at a 22.5 degree down angle to reduce it's minimum range from about 12" to about 3" while maintaining no penalty to it's maximum range. I didn't have to use a level and a protractor to find an exact 22.5 degree angle when attaching my flyer to it's base. I didn't have to argue if modeling the angle a flyer flies at is modeling for advantage. I didn't have to argue anything, or waste time in calculating or debating what a 45 degree arc without bringing the proper tools to accurately measure the firing arc of a flyer. All I had to do was move models, roll dice, and have fun.

THIS. 100x this.

 yakface wrote:

 Janthkin wrote:
I had a Vendetta go into hover mode, and shoot straight down at the Doom of Malan'tai, 1" from the Vendettas base. Later, a different Vendetta Zoomed over and shot straight down at some Termagants sitting on an objective, again 1" away from the Vendetta's base (the following turn, the Vendetta off-loaded passengers, which made its relative position extremely important).

Obviously flyers shooting straight down is not an example that needs to be given...that was the point of the ruling.

Instead, I'm looking for specific examples where the player would not have been able to simply alter their location to get those same shots in some variety.

Your 2nd example you say that the Vendetta then off-loaded passengers, but would the model having to be back a few inches to get the shots really have changed the ability for the models to disembark and claim the objective?

The more specific examples of things that happened that could not possibly have happened otherwise (if the ruling was not in effect and the player controlling the flyers could not have done something slightly differently to achieve the same results), the better.

Ah. More specifics, then:

In the first example, the Vendetta could not have shot the Doom at all that turn, but for this ruling. It couldn't have lined up for a shot any other way - we were near a corner, with tall impassable terrain nearby, and other models on the ground would have kept it from backing off far enough to get a shot using "normal" weapon angle rules. (Zooming wouldn't have worked - he would have overflown the Doom by about 14", and couldn't shoot backwards.)

In the second example, the Termagants he was shooting at were at the base of a ruin - no LoS from most angles, including the angle the Vendetta was approaching from - it stopped literally right over their heads. But for this ruling, the Vendetta could not have affected the Termagant unit at all. (He also needed to be able to disembark his Troops the next turn near the objective, which he couldn't have done had he held back - they would not have been able to disembark & reach the objective.)

I was an anomaly at this event - I encountered relatively few fliers (1 Night Scythe, 2 Storm Talons, 2 Vendettas). In 1/3 of the games where I saw fliers, this ruling played a part.

 schadenfreude wrote:
@ Jantkin It's very understandable for the 180 degree rule to be upsetting in your situation, however other factors help balance out the meta. First and foremost with the presence of forgeworld ack ack meant Cron air stayed home, and the couple lists that had 3 or flyers weren't at the top tables. That means nids have to deal with fewer flyers.

No emotional content here; I'm not upset. I do disagree with the ruling, and provided my experiences with it per Yak's request.

Sabre defense platforms did far more injury to my Tyranids than anything the fliers I encountered did. Ouch.

 schadenfreude wrote:
I didn't have to model my flyer at a 22.5 degree down angle to reduce it's minimum range from about 12" to about 3" while maintaining no penalty to it's maximum range

So in other words, you didn't have to model for your advantage to maximize your firing capability.

Voodoo wrote:

Post text removed for being extremely rude. If you would like to bring up an issue involving another player, please do so in a polite fashion, even if you feel that they don't deserve it. --yakface

I guess a "my bad" is in order, so my bad. I will try to rephrase it more diplomatically. I was really just asking in too direct a fashion (mostly of reece and crew), something that really deserved a much more nebulous, general question. So what I'd like to know is, when some of the more "soft" prizes were given out, I'd like to understand the criteria for them being handed out. Specifically one prize, but I mean I guess you could ask it of ALL the prizes so as not to offend anyone.. Would any of your awards at the end have been given to reward such behavior such as profuse swearing, yelling, cheating, and dramatic arm movements? I'm guessing this one in particular was given ironically, but maybe I was alone in witnessing said behaviors, and in my tiredness failed to report it. Still I feel it would be a shame to let that kind of thing go completely unremarked. As I'm pretty sure we would all like to join an event that rewarded behavior like that, I feel it might be a very stress relieving activity!

So sorry again for being a little too direct, typing from a phone, you know? I really need to take it easy and give these things the time they deserve.

Voodoo wrote:

I guess a "my bad" is in order, so my bad. I will try to rephrase it more diplomatically. I was really just asking in too direct a fashion (mostly of reece and crew), something that really deserved a much more nebulous, general question. So what I'd like to know is, when some of the more "soft" prizes were given out, I'd like to understand the criteria for them being handed out. Specifically one prize, but I mean I guess you could ask it of ALL the prizes so as not to offend anyone.. Would any of your awards at the end have been given to reward such behavior such as profuse swearing, yelling, cheating, and dramatic arm movements? I'm guessing this one in particular was given ironically, but maybe I was alone in witnessing said behaviors, and in my tiredness failed to report it. Still I feel it would be a shame to let that kind of thing go completely unremarked. As I'm pretty sure we would all like to join an event that rewarded behavior like that, I feel it might be a very stress relieving activity!

So sorry again for being a little too direct, typing from a phone, you know? I really need to take it easy and give these things the time they deserve.

Prizes at tournaments are very seldom handed out in an ironic fashion, and if they are it is usually done so very clearly tongue-in-cheek.

So if you have an actual issue with someone that you feel didn't deserve said award, then you should probably contact Reece directly and let him know what you experienced. And in the future, if you encounter someone who you feel legitimately deserves low marks for something by the rules given for the event, then by all means you should give them low marks. *Not* marking someone down and then complaining after the fact helps neither you, the person who was displaying bad behavior or the event in general.

Voodoo wrote:

Voodoo wrote:

Post text removed for being extremely rude. If you would like to bring up an issue involving another player, please do so in a polite fashion, even if you feel that they don't deserve it. --yakface

I guess a "my bad" is in order, so my bad. I will try to rephrase it more diplomatically. I was really just asking in too direct a fashion (mostly of reece and crew), something that really deserved a much more nebulous, general question. So what I'd like to know is, when some of the more "soft" prizes were given out, I'd like to understand the criteria for them being handed out. Specifically one prize, but I mean I guess you could ask it of ALL the prizes so as not to offend anyone.. Would any of your awards at the end have been given to reward such behavior such as profuse swearing, yelling, cheating, and dramatic arm movements? I'm guessing this one in particular was given ironically, but maybe I was alone in witnessing said behaviors, and in my tiredness failed to report it. Still I feel it would be a shame to let that kind of thing go completely unremarked. As I'm pretty sure we would all like to join an event that rewarded behavior like that, I feel it might be a very stress relieving activity!

So sorry again for being a little too direct, typing from a phone, you know? I really need to take it easy and give these things the time they deserve.

BAO rules packet was extremely clear in deciding whether a player deserves a thumbs up or thumbs down. The criteria for a thumbs down included:
-Being 15 or more minutes late to a round
-Verbally abusive or insulting
-Intentionally cheating
-Slow playing

There's a series of penalties for each thumbs down a player receives. There are four penalty levels based on the number of thumbs down received. First one is turning the thumbs down player's win to a lost. Second is the first in addition to being disqualified from prize support. Third and fourth is expulsion from the event, the later being no refund. This system deters unsportsmanlike behaviors.

Overall for my experience at my first and probably last BAO was really not a pleasant one. This being only my second main tournament I was intially disappointed with the venue being placed in a barn in a run down park in what appeared to be a bad part of town. I dont know if it was because my first tournament was at Duel Con which was held in a very nice hotel. Secondly I performed pretty badly with my Orks having gone 0-3 in the team tournament and 1-5 in the singles. The massive amount of weaponry that ignored cover meta was just too harsh for what many would call a good balanced tournament list. There were many games where I didn't get saves of any kind and it just seemed like I could have played on a blank table with no terrain whatsoever and it would not have changed much. Dual thunderfire cannons, double-triple heldrakes, forgeworld collossus', noise marines, drop podding armies with lots of flamers is just too rough for Orks right now. Thirdly the venue was far too small for the amount of people that were there. Given the "girth" of a good majority of the people that were there it made moving around almost impossible and good luck playing a game with someone directly behind you the entire time. Mentally and physically it was exhausting and given the 14 hour drive it took for me to get there in my opinion just was not worth it for me. I am glad to have met some great people and to have gotten to say hello to friendly faces I have met at Duel Con. Please do not let my personal experience disuade you from future attendance do experience it for yourself as everyone takes what they want from their own experiences. Thanks to Reece, Frankie and everyone else involved with running this event. I will be looking forward to Duel Con this year!

 MightyGodzilla wrote:
It just occurred to me that I didn't ask anyone at BAO who they were on Dakka. It would have been nice to put more faces to names.

At the doubles i meet some. People actually recognized me because of my costume

Prizes at tournaments are very seldom handed out in an ironic fashion, and if they are it is usually done so very clearly tongue-in-cheek.

So if you have an actual issue with someone that you feel didn't deserve said award, then you should probably contact Reece directly and let him know what you experienced. And in the future, if you encounter someone who you feel legitimately deserves low marks for something by the rules given for the event, then by all means you should give them low marks. *Not* marking someone down and then complaining after the fact helps neither you, the person who was displaying bad behavior or the event in general.

Yeah this was my bad, after messaging Reece he said there was no prize for best sports. Which is what I thought at the beginning. But they handed out all the best army prizes, and then afterward during the painting prizes and such handed out what sounded like best sports. But I think Reece just forgot the order or something, and his voice was giving out by then and it was noisy. So I think the prize was actually best ORKS, which makes more sense. So my bad, sorry to waste this much board space.

NVM

Thanks for the great tournament, guys. Check out the timelapse video of the Final match, shot by http://poweredplay.net here:

Results!

http://www.frontlinegaming.org/community/bay-area-open/bao-2013-results/

I will address questions tomorrow, tonight I need some rest.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and 40K is ranked by battle points, not combined score, so look to that column.

 jy2 wrote:

 SabrX wrote:

Nope, I haven't played SoB much this edition. I know the army you are talking about though. That was a beautifully painted SoB army. I heard there were 5 SoB players at the tournament.

I brought my Tau-Orks army. I believe I'm the only one who ran that combo.

No, there were several others who brought Torks. Got photos which I will probably be posting in my BAO batrep thread tomorrow.

Reecius just posted the 40k Championship results. I don't see anyone else running Tau/Orks combo. Perhaps the Orks or Tau were decorations for display?

Drats, George beat me by 15 points for best overall Tau player and 1 point in Battle Points. So close!

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 MightyGodzilla wrote:
It just occurred to me that I didn't ask anyone at BAO who they were on Dakka. It would have been nice to put more faces to names.

At the doubles i meet some. People actually recognized me because of my costume

Costume? You didn't dress like Twilight Sparkle did you? Because honestly until I meet a person IRL I mentally them as their avatar. So Kronk is literally Will Farrell the cowbell pirate, Killkrazy a small Asian girl, HBMC a whirling comissarr, etc etc.... I swear if saw someone wearing a purple horn, I'd have come up and introduced myself.

Voodoo wrote:

Voodoo wrote:
Post text removed for being extremely rude. If you would like to bring up an issue involving another player, please do so in a polite fashion, even if you feel that they don't deserve it. --yakface

profuse swearing, yelling, cheating and dramatic arm movements?

Except for the cheating, ** , I'm guilty of every one of these.

I roared in joy, arghed in agony. High fived opponents on *their* successes. I shot up my arms in V for Victory. And yep, swore. Not quite like my buddies who came with me (ex-navy?) . Pretty far away from Quentin Tarantino, but at least normal rated "R".

I was boisterous. I was loud. I had fun. Two opponents were wet blankets from the intro "My name is"/handshake onward, and I acccordingly toned it down.

Opponents 1, 3, 4 & 6 smiled and enjoyed themselves.
#2 was really mellow and calm. A quiet fellow and I brought it down to match him. My buddy played him later on and stated it was the same.
#5 quit at the end of Turn 1; he looked unhappy/serious from the start, and was demoralized when I destroyed 500 points of stuff on Turn 1. I didn't have the chance to be excited or boisterous.
There was no #7. I chose a 10 PM bedtime (instead of after midnight) after having to drive home to Los Angeles.

My point Voodoo, as I'm (hopefully) politely making, is that with 150 dudes in a room, testosterone is going to come forth, bad words being a product of that. We are getting out our baser, more brutal violent nature ... with plastic spacemen and dice. I think if we went back 80,000 or 800 years in time, there'd still be profuse swearing and dramatic arm gestures after bringing down an elk, deer, or, having just killed an enemy tribesman.

Still, I'm genuinely bummed that you had somebody who would direct anger (profuse swearing) when his game was going crappy (or otherwise).

I guess you know to expect swearing, "WAAAGH!" Wolf Howls and other celebratory outbursts. And hey, if it's causing a headache, ask the opponent to tone it down.

And report those cheaters!

**
I screwed up the FNP/Force Weapon sequence and was able to whack/ID Corbulo with my Rune Priest, not working in the chance for Corby's FNP. I did catch up with that opponent the next day, tell him I screwed up (we had a Draw) and he *still* put out his hand, said 'thanks' for telling him, and he wished me good luck for the day!

 chrisamichaels wrote:
Thanks for the great tournament, guys. Check out the timelapse video of the Final match, shot by http://poweredplay.net here:

Man, that crater in the center moved an awful lot during the game.

 Reecius wrote:
Results!

http://www.frontlinegaming.org/community/bay-area-open/bao-2013-results/

I tied for 7th in Appearance Score! I know that "Top 10 Painting Score" doesn't have the same ring as "Top 10 Battle Score" but that definitely met my major goal for the weekend (the secondary goal was "Top Eldar" but I played like ass. )

Thanks for hosting the event, organizers! This was my first two-day event since GT Los Angeles in like 1998, and I had a good time. I wasn't even too annoyed at the registration delay (since honestly that was more likely the fault of the fairgrounds having the front gate closed so people had to hunt for the event), but I'll definitely be looking forward to it moving to a location with a carpeted floor next year.

Brothererekose wrote:

I screwed up the FNP/Force Weapon sequence and was able to whack/ID Corbulo with my Rune Priest, not working in the chance for Corby's FNP. I did catch up with that opponent the next day, tell him I screwed up (we had a Draw) and he *still* put out his hand, said 'thanks' for telling him, and he wished me good luck for the day!

Actually, GW's FAQ says that Force Weapon activation happens before FNP, so if you get the Force Weapon activated then FNP cannot be used as the wounds now inflict instant death.

So unless I'm misunderstanding, it sounds like you played it RIGHT on the first day.

 Magc8Ball wrote:

 Reecius wrote:
Results!

http://www.frontlinegaming.org/community/bay-area-open/bao-2013-results/

I tied for 7th in Appearance Score! I know that "Top 10 Painting Score" doesn't have the same ring as "Top 10 Battle Score" but that definitely met my major goal for the weekend (the secondary goal was "Top Eldar" but I played like ass. )

Congrats! You really did have a beautifully painted Eldar army. The custom made cards for keeping track of psychic powers and warlord traits was a nice touch.

 MightyGodzilla wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 MightyGodzilla wrote:
It just occurred to me that I didn't ask anyone at BAO who they were on Dakka. It would have been nice to put more faces to names.

At the doubles i meet some. People actually recognized me because of my costume

Costume? You didn't dress like Twilight Sparkle did you? Because honestly until I meet a person IRL I mentally them as their avatar. So Kronk is literally Will Farrell the cowbell pirate, Killkrazy a small Asian girl, HBMC a whirling comissarr, etc etc.... I swear if saw someone wearing a purple horn, I'd have come up and introduced myself.

Where you at the doubles? Because i was the guy in the commissar costume with the hat that had the stars.

 SabrX wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

 SabrX wrote:

Nope, I haven't played SoB much this edition. I know the army you are talking about though. That was a beautifully painted SoB army. I heard there were 5 SoB players at the tournament.

I brought my Tau-Orks army. I believe I'm the only one who ran that combo.

No, there were several others who brought Torks. Got photos which I will probably be posting in my BAO batrep thread tomorrow.

Reecius just posted the 40k Championship results. I don't see anyone else running Tau/Orks combo. Perhaps the Orks or Tau were decorations for display?

Drats, George beat me by 15 points for best overall Tau player and 1 point in Battle Points. So close!

I thought I had more pictures but this was the only one I could find:



BTW, this is SabrX's army (pictured below). SabrX, congrats on a very successful tournament run with an army you had very little practice with. The Torks are definitely a force to be reckoned with.

Brothererekose wrote:

Voodoo wrote:

Voodoo wrote:
Post text removed for being extremely rude. If you would like to bring up an issue involving another player, please do so in a polite fashion, even if you feel that they don't deserve it. --yakface

Opponents 1, 3, 4 & 6 smiled and enjoyed themselves.
#2 was really mellow and calm. A quiet fellow and I brought it down to match him. My buddy played him later on and stated it was the same.
#5 quit at the end of Turn 1; he looked unhappy/serious from the start, and was demoralized when I destroyed 500 points of stuff on Turn 1. I didn't have the chance to be excited or boisterous.
There was no #7. I chose a 10 PM bedtime (instead of after midnight) after having to drive home to Los Angeles.

My point Voodoo, as I'm (hopefully) politely making, is that with 150 dudes in a room, testosterone is going to come forth, bad words being a product of that. We are getting out our baser, more brutal violent nature ... with plastic spacemen and dice. I think if we went back 80,000 or 800 years in time, there'd still be profuse swearing and dramatic arm gestures after bringing down an elk, deer, or, having just killed an enemy tribesman.

Still, I'm genuinely bummed that you had somebody who would direct anger (profuse swearing) when his game was going crappy (or otherwise).

Lol, dude anyone thats ever played you (and I have) knows you're there to have a good time you're awesome to play, You could yell and scream all you wanted and it wouldn't annoy me, because I know it would be in good fun. Glad you had a blast.

 jy2 wrote:

 SabrX wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

 SabrX wrote:

Nope, I haven't played SoB much this edition. I know the army you are talking about though. That was a beautifully painted SoB army. I heard there were 5 SoB players at the tournament.

I brought my Tau-Orks army. I believe I'm the only one who ran that combo.

No, there were several others who brought Torks. Got photos which I will probably be posting in my BAO batrep thread tomorrow.

Reecius just posted the 40k Championship results. I don't see anyone else running Tau/Orks combo. Perhaps the Orks or Tau were decorations for display?

Drats, George beat me by 15 points for best overall Tau player and 1 point in Battle Points. So close!

I thought I had more pictures but this was the only one I could find:



BTW, this is SabrX's army (pictured below). SabrX, congrats on a very successful tournament run with an army you had very little practice with. The Torks are definitely a force to be reckoned with.

Wow, now I remember! I guess a lot of players listed their primary and didn't mention ally detachment. KFF Big Mek would have been useful on some of the tables.

I look forward to looking at the rest of your uploaded pics. A lot of my pics aren't good due to poor lighting.

Voodoo wrote:
Lol, dude anyone thats ever played you (and I have) knows you're there to have a good time you're awesome to play, You could yell and scream all you wanted and it wouldn't annoy me, because I know it would be in good fun. Glad you had a blast.

I will humbly accept that compliment.
...
'Course, now I'm trying to figure out who you are.

- - - - - - - - - - - --
A general note:
Liz set up her army during registration right next to mine and I now kick myself for not commenting on the army's conversions and at least introducing myself. I congratulated her on FB and I do so here, to.

 SabrX wrote:

Wow, now I remember! I guess a lot of players listed their primary and didn't mention ally detachment. KFF Big Mek would have been useful on some of the tables.

I look forward to looking at the rest of your uploaded pics. A lot of my pics aren't good due to poor lighting.

Yeah, my camera rocks! Most of my pictures came out awesome even in the poor lighting.

For those who want to check out the armies and my BAO experience, you can find them in my thread:


1750 - Jy2's Road to the Bay Area Open GT - Hive Fleet Pandora!

I'm still uploading all the army pics. Should finish them later tonight.

Reece,
First off, thanks for taking the time to run such a great event. I had a blast! And double thanks for the drinks on sunday night!

My name is spelled Ken Brunner, btw!

Congrats to Liz on the win, and to Allan, the runner up.

Best part of the event was all the great people I met. I'm looking forward to meeting up with y'all again next go around.

Cheers,
Ken