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DaddyWarcrimes wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Unfortunately, shrike's claws took a kick in the nuts.

They are still Rending, which actually matters now.

I know, but I never count on rending to actually work when it matters.

madtankbloke wrote:
As they are, assault marines are fairly weak as assault units go. they will suffer horribly if you use them to spearhead attacks. That said, they can make a useful counter assault unit if the enemy is locked in combat. their range, and HoW attacks can go a long way.

I agree with this, although losing HoW by moving 12" really hurts them. I've had vanilla assault marines charge my GHs, more often than not the GHs beat the so called "assault" marines off. I'm aware that GHs are amazing and under costed, but for a unit which has an implied role in their name, they're pretty shocking at it.

The way I've seen them used best is a cheap bullies. Keep them cheap and only assault things which don't have much of a chance of fighting back. Still, the points could be better spent elsewhere.

 Griddlelol wrote:

madtankbloke wrote:
As they are, assault marines are fairly weak as assault units go. they will suffer horribly if you use them to spearhead attacks. That said, they can make a useful counter assault unit if the enemy is locked in combat. their range, and HoW attacks can go a long way.

I agree with this, although losing HoW by moving 12" really hurts them. I've had vanilla assault marines charge my GHs, more often than not the GHs beat the so called "assault" marines off. I'm aware that GHs are amazing and under costed, but for a unit which has an implied role in their name, they're pretty shocking at it.

The way I've seen them used best is a cheap bullies. Keep them cheap and only assault things which don't have much of a chance of fighting back. Still, the points could be better spent elsewhere.

Fluff wise GHs are much better at assault than Smurfs because Space Wolves are all badass at assault. Smurfs are Smurfs. The Codex may be based on their stories but they're not the ones that make it great.

 enooNaMI wrote:

 Griddlelol wrote:

madtankbloke wrote:
As they are, assault marines are fairly weak as assault units go. they will suffer horribly if you use them to spearhead attacks. That said, they can make a useful counter assault unit if the enemy is locked in combat. their range, and HoW attacks can go a long way.

I agree with this, although losing HoW by moving 12" really hurts them. I've had vanilla assault marines charge my GHs, more often than not the GHs beat the so called "assault" marines off. I'm aware that GHs are amazing and under costed, but for a unit which has an implied role in their name, they're pretty shocking at it.

The way I've seen them used best is a cheap bullies. Keep them cheap and only assault things which don't have much of a chance of fighting back. Still, the points could be better spent elsewhere.

Fluff wise GHs are much better at assault than Smurfs because Space Wolves are all badass at assault. Smurfs are Smurfs. The Codex may be based on their stories but they're not the ones that make it great.

Except Space Wolves are borderline heretics due to not following the Codex, having multiple mutations, and defy the Inquisition and Ecclesiarchy at every turn.

And, out of all the Codex Adherent Chapters, the Ultramarines are probably the best of them.

Gameplay Wise, a unit called "Assault Marines" should probably be better than a troop choice in most Codices. >.> As they are now, they are Tactical Marines with a Jump Pack and BP/CCW.

I miss the 4th Ed codex where you can take True Grit on all of your bolters.

Crazyterran wrote:

 enooNaMI wrote:

 Griddlelol wrote:

madtankbloke wrote:
As they are, assault marines are fairly weak as assault units go. they will suffer horribly if you use them to spearhead attacks. That said, they can make a useful counter assault unit if the enemy is locked in combat. their range, and HoW attacks can go a long way.

I agree with this, although losing HoW by moving 12" really hurts them. I've had vanilla assault marines charge my GHs, more often than not the GHs beat the so called "assault" marines off. I'm aware that GHs are amazing and under costed, but for a unit which has an implied role in their name, they're pretty shocking at it.

The way I've seen them used best is a cheap bullies. Keep them cheap and only assault things which don't have much of a chance of fighting back. Still, the points could be better spent elsewhere.

Fluff wise GHs are much better at assault than Smurfs because Space Wolves are all badass at assault. Smurfs are Smurfs. The Codex may be based on their stories but they're not the ones that make it great.

Except Space Wolves are borderline heretics due to not following the Codex, having multiple mutations, and defy the Inquisition and Ecclesiarchy at every turn.

And, out of all the Codex Adherent Chapters, the Ultramarines are probably the best of them.

Gameplay Wise, a unit called "Assault Marines" should probably be better than a troop choice in most Codices. >.> As they are now, they are Tactical Marines with a Jump Pack and BP/CCW.

I miss the 4th Ed codex where you can take True Grit on all of your bolters.

The guys who claim that the Space Wolves are heretics are the Ecclesiarchy, the very first guys whom the Emperor will slaughter once he gets his uber macho body back. Bjorn said once "God? Calling him a God was what put us in this mess in the first place".

The Emperor never wanted the Imperium to have a religion because religion breeds heresy. The Adeptus Mechanicus don't really have a religion. They're just nerds who think soldering needs to be mixed with D and D. The Inquisition can't really touch the Space Wolves because the Space Wolves are the original Inquisition. Read the entire backstory and you'll know why. Even the other Legions were scared of the Space Wolves which is why Sanguinius kept the Red Thirst and the Black Rage classified.

As for the Ultramarines being the best Codex Adherent Chapter, well dude, that's a little bit on the nose as the guy who happened to write the Codex Astartes was the Primarch of the Ultramarines, Row-boat Gilly-man, and the guy who wrote the Codex: Space Marines just happened to own an Ultramarines army. That's why their fluff is so overly fluffy. Vanilla Smurfettes.

Jump Packs are awesome but Vanillas can't compare to BAs who use them. Vanillas should stick to their strengths which are Terminators, Tacticals, and Devastators. Hold the objective until you backup arrives or your enemy all dies. Smurfs.

As a cc squad, no they aren't good at all. However, i can see them being useful to protect some of your more expensive squads that are horrible at cc. You jump pack in front of the unit and assault the enemy before they can hit your sterngaurd or something..

 farrowking37 wrote:
As a cc squad, no they aren't good at all. However, i can see them being useful to protect some of your more expensive squads that are horrible at cc. You jump pack in front of the unit and assault the enemy before they can hit your sterngaurd or something..

That's a very expensive meat shield. Tac marines would fill that role better, especially as you have to take them.

Actually, BA assault troops themselves are no better than Ultramarine equivalents. They just get meltas, sanguinary priests, and count as scoring. But in a vacuum, they are no better at killing or surviving.

Also, using jump troops as a spoiling attack is better than being a meat shield. Especially given that some abilities on work on the charge.

Assault marines do well in vulkan drop pod lists, as the drop pod is free, the flamer and thammer improved, and there only needs to be 5 guys meaning its not too expensive of a way to improve the pod count.

I love to bring against very strong shooty armies such as necrons and tau. get there faster than terminators and tie up there firepower. they have there purpose is denial of their best units but just alone cannot really carry Vanilla marines.

 Griddlelol wrote:

 farrowking37 wrote:
As a cc squad, no they aren't good at all. However, i can see them being useful to protect some of your more expensive squads that are horrible at cc. You jump pack in front of the unit and assault the enemy before they can hit your sterngaurd or something..

That's a very expensive meat shield. Tac marines would fill that role better, especially as you have to take them.

Not saying its a good idea. Just a potential use. Tac marines can only move 6" though, the extra 6 that the jumpack gives would help you stop the enemy earlier, and if anyone survives, get away.

Martel732 wrote:
Actually, BA assault troops themselves are no better than Ultramarine equivalents. They just get meltas, sanguinary priests, and count as scoring. But in a vacuum, they are no better at killing or surviving.

Also, using jump troops as a spoiling attack is better than being a meat shield. Especially given that some abilities on work on the charge.

The ability to destroy tanks and FnP. F F*CKING N F*CKING P! Plus they're all handsome and drink blood while being badass and hating Twilight for making Vampires look gay. BAs are clearly more awesome than Smurfs.

P.S.
The Red Ranger is always the leader. Blue always sulks coz hes's not as awesome as Red.

I was talking about their stat line and ability to win close combats. Even with FNP, there are so many units out there they can't beat consistently. This is a major problem for jumper lists.

I still hesitate to call anything in the BA codex "awesome" in 6th edition. You want "awesome"? Go look in the Space Wolf codex.

Plus, its not like sanguinary priests are free or anything. The initiative nerf to furious charge kicks the BA in the balls so hard it's actually been questioned whether sanguinary priests are still worth it. I think that they are worth it, because of FNP on stuff like bikes.

I used Korvydae (assault marine become troop choice) with my assault marine. 3 smalls squad of 7 assault marines. The other players are not used to fight again a fast mobile army. Using the assault marine for my principal strike force, I need to be very agressive and thinking outside the box to kill tanks and disturbing your ennemies.

 enooNaMI wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Actually, BA assault troops themselves are no better than Ultramarine equivalents. They just get meltas, sanguinary priests, and count as scoring. But in a vacuum, they are no better at killing or surviving.

Also, using jump troops as a spoiling attack is better than being a meat shield. Especially given that some abilities on work on the charge.

The ability to destroy tanks and FnP. F F*CKING N F*CKING P! Plus they're all handsome and drink blood while being badass and hating Twilight for making Vampires look gay. BAs are clearly more awesome than Smurfs.

P.S.
The Red Ranger is always the leader. Blue always sulks coz hes's not as awesome as Red.

Not to mention that they have boosted stats, like +1 WS and +1 Attacks. Give them jump packs, and hammer of wrath gifts an extra attack for a total of 5(most DC have chainswords anyway, which is the same as the HoW) on the charge w/ strength 5 via FC Sang Priest.

Martel732 wrote:Plus, its not like sanguinary priests are free or anything. The initiative nerf to furious charge kicks the BA in the balls so hard it's actually been questioned whether sanguinary priests are still worth it. I think that they are worth it, because of FNP on stuff like bikes.

How does furious charge get an initiative nerf? I'm reading the rule book and it says that a squad with this rule gets +1S on the charge. I'm not familiar w/ Blood Angels, does anyone one know whats this means?

Furious charge was +1S and +1 initiative when you charged in 5th edition. Basically allowed BA assault marines to do significant damage to I4 targets before they got a chance to swing back. So it was more of a defensive bonus then offensive, since there were fewer guys left to swing back. Combined with the FnP nerf from 4+ to the current 5+, it makes BA assault marines significantly less survivable then they used to me.

Thats right

 Carnage43 wrote:
Furious charge was +1S and +1 initiative when you charged in 5th edition. Basically allowed BA assault marines to do significant damage to I4 targets before they got a chance to swing back. So it was more of a defensive bonus then offensive, since there were fewer guys left to swing back. Combined with the FnP nerf from 4+ to the current 5+, it makes BA assault marines significantly less survivable then they used to me.

The -1 initiative really hurts considering the massive buff the Chaos Space Marines got with the Mark of Slaneesh (+1 initiative). Furious Charge would have evened up the field though the +2 Attacks that Rage gave to the DC makes them much more viable.

A lowered point cost for Sanguinary Priests or adding Rage effect to the Red Thirst would have been a nice contrast to the Furious Charge and FnP nerfs.

We're still more awesome than Smurfs because we're red and they're blue. And, if you believe 1d4chan, Bjorn is in the BA army.

Space Wolves are Werewolves. Blood angels are Vampires. Both are awesome. Twilight sucks.

FNP is not nerfed

It is nerfed vis a vis surviving torret of attacks. Which is what usually happens in HTH.

You still get the FNP against power swords and such.

Martel732 wrote:
It is nerfed vis a vis surviving torret of attacks. Which is what usually happens in HTH.

Overall, its better IMO. Being able to take it against everything except ID means you can take it more often than in 5th edition. Which is superior to passing it on 1 point better.

But you are easier to kill with small arms fire

Yeah, but the trade off is worth it.

FnP was rediclous against small arms in 5th anyway. It made 3+ saves effectivly 2+, 2+ saves became almost impossable to kill.

Ordinary assault marines dont get FNP

I'm a big fan of torrent, rather than bothering with AP. I might slowly change, but there still seems to be many 40K battles fought conveniently in ruins for 4+ cover not to be taken into consideration.

Just compare how many IG flashlight wounds you have to FNP vs power sword attacks. I still think its a small, but consequential nerf. Just like all the other nerfs the BA took, small, but they add up to trouble.

Everyone is easier to kill with small arms fire, even vehicles. Its just how it is right now.

Just beacause we are Blood Angels does not make us an assualt army, we're a mobile army.

I have moved away from assault and moved towards to the Tac squads. It may be a bit more expensive for a handful of tac squads in rhinos, but you can back them up with a really REALLY fast army....literally.

Martel732 wrote:
I'm a big fan of torrent, rather than bothering with AP. I might slowly change, but there still seems to be many 40K battles fought conveniently in ruins for 4+ cover not to be taken into consideration.

Just compare how many IG flashlight wounds you have to FNP vs power sword attacks. I still think its a small, but consequential nerf. Just like all the other nerfs the BA took, small, but they add up to trouble.

Just shoot a Battle cannon shot at them and they are dead

Battle cannons have annoying tendency to whiff when you need it most. I have seen many an assault terminator squad die to flashlights

Flashlights are awesome they kill stuff if you have a lot of them