Screw White Dwarf reviews, I just wrote a complaint to White Dwarf Editor Jes Bickham

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**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
I admit I had hopes when a new lineup was announced and an improvement to the content promised.

It would appear 'what we are producing is considered crap' got through as a message, especially via the medium of sales. It would also appear that what was required to improve the magazine was not conveyed and the senior management's distance both from the fan-base and the product they sell was telling in this.

I believe we have seen a steady deterioration over the last 10 years and beyond as the company's higher echelons were moved over from people who'd come up through the company and were hobbyists, to recruited corporate management who had no interest in the product or it's consumers.

I have it on good authority from two people who worked at moderately senior positions in sales and the design/art studio, that several of the senior management have a directly antagonistic attitude to the 'nerds' that buy their products past a certain age (mid teens) and also a similarly low regard for their own devoted store employees recruited from enthusiastic gamers.

So, these elements are responsible for approving the content of the magazine and ensuring it has the 'correct' levels of advertising new stock and conveys the new stock's saleability. Is it any wonder it remains without merit as a hobbyists magazine when it's overseen by people who have a negative perception of the people who buy it?

You see it is crass nonsense when people cry Games Workshop hates us, because the folks in the stores don't and the folks in the design studio don't and the authors and the painters don't... But a number of the senior management have a very strong disdain for us and if I were running a company that makes 'the best model soldiers in the world' and discovered that several of my management team, that I'd brought into the company from other corporate positions, considered the product and it's customer base as 'sad nerds', I'd take those sharp suited lads out to the back yard and put a bullet in them, figuratively speaking... And even if I didn't do that, I'd remove them from the product approval process.

Spot on as usual. As I said earlier, If a company treats you with contempt, treat them with contempt. By this I mean, if you can get the same product cheaper somewhere else, go there. The modern corporate world is not interested in loyalty, and neither should you be. Vote with your wallet.

A friend of mine who once worked in a GW store got in trouble for encouraging people to buy their glues elsewhere in craft shops (you were getting triple the amount for half the price of GW)

I know what your thinking, but he's a decent guy who believed in customer service even if it meant pointing them in another company's direction. They way he saw it was that why should low income kids get ripped off. Needless to say, he didn't last much longer at GW and the store suffered as a result. But for me, it summed up GW's thinking - i.e squeeze customers til they're dry.

**Pacific**

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
I

You see it is crass nonsense when people cry Games Workshop hates us, because the folks in the stores don't and the folks in the design studio don't and the authors and the painters don't... But a number of the senior management have a very strong disdain for us and if I were running a company that makes 'the best model soldiers in the world' and discovered that several of my management team, that I'd brought into the company from other corporate positions, considered the product and it's customer base as 'sad nerds', I'd take those sharp suited lads out to the back yard and put a bullet in them, figuratively speaking... And even if I didn't do that, I'd remove them from the product approval process.

I heard a similar thing a couple of times, although the term I heard bandied about referred to a certain 4-legged wooly mammal that has a propensity for following others of its kind

**BluntmanDC**

Mr. Burning wrote:
sarpedons-right-hand wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
To be fair I doubt the editor gets called into a room and told "You must put out bland crap!"

Anyway, WD being bad (or still bad as the case may be) isn't the worst part. It's the people who were sucked in by the flashy new paper and big photos saying the 'new' WD is 'better' that I find disturbing. It's a little too "sheep like" for me.

I do agree with this, the biggest problem that I can see with the 'new look' WD is that it's become an even bigger catalogue of "NEW, SHINY WANT!" than it's ever been.. And that makes me sad
The lack of actual articles is extremely telling, it just smacks of journalistic lazyness to me. I used to read, that's READ, a copy of WD over a nice long cup of tea or three. The chances of me doing that now is almost zero....Damn shame.

No journalists have ever been hurt in the production of WD.

Hence no exposes of Priestly and Chambers Cocaine addictions. No 'Kirby gaks in each batch of molten finecast' shocks.

Before GW sold walls with skulls on™ It was a hobby mag, there was some relevant content. Now GW is about kids, new entrants and shifting everything with skulls on, the content reflects this.

I remember having issues filled with completely new unit and in some cases army rules (new world norse list was good), in depth conversion articles (how a guy made an awesome Huron from bits), a massive article, with real paragraphs of writing about great player armies (the airborne jungle army was one of the best, IG rough riders on judge dread hover boards and IG Tanks made with landspeeders antigrav drives).

The new WD is just made of glossy pictures and information you can freely view on the internet, if it continues having no exclucive content then there is no reason to buy it.

**Balance**

Backfire wrote:
insaniak wrote:

The correct answer from customer service would have been that Space Marines aren't sold as specific armour marks, and it's generally assumed that it's ok to build them in mismatched armour.

I've always thought this is actually a nice touch. Historical armies usually did not have matching armour or uniforms (that is a very recent developement). Your average Crusade-era feodal army had knights and men-at-arms in all type of armour. Even Roman legions often mixed different sets of armour types and weapons. Often people don't realize this as they only see such armies in movies, where extras and CGI models often have identical props to cut production costs.

Although to be picky, Space Marines are not historical.

But yeah... even though modern forces seem more standardized (and are) there seems to be a lot of irregularity scattered around... Selected places for gear, specialist gear itself, etc. Personalization depending on the force and era. And variations in vehicle model production variants can be a huge rabbit hole to explore.

**Loricatus Aurora**

My own experience with GW

Wrote polite complimentary letter in 2009, no response.

Will say masterclass painting articles they published few years back were good. I saved them all in a plastic sleeve folder, looked up painting white yesterday actually in the White Scars / Khan masterclass.

Having said that have not bought WD for over a year and each time I look through it there is nothing there for me

Also find a huge amount of pressure when i go into a store. Inevitably get swooped on by sales rep who wants to probe what i play and align latest release for marines. Dont like having to interrupt them if i only have a few minutes and just want to have a browse so sometimes its just easier to avoid going in.

**Breotan**

Wasn't "content" one of the promises from GW when they reorganized WD? Aside from the battle reports (which were never a priority of mine) what are they actually doing to deliver on that promise?

**maskedman504**

When did feth become a curse word? That is fething ridiculous.

FWIW, I sent my e-mail:

"To Whom it May Concern,

I have been playing your games since the mid nineties; I used to subscribe to White Dwarf; in fact, I did for about a five year period.

As the prices began to rise, I began picking up issues at my local store, if they had interesting articles or meaningful content.

The price of the magazine has long outpaced any meaningful content; my opinion is the magazine is nothing more than a catalog of product.

I think it is unfortunate that I have to scour the internet for information I am looking for, blogs for topical subjects within the hobby and YouTube for painting tips and tricks; but I am also lucky to have these options because none of them are provided by the White Dwarf.

I still buy the your models, I think they are expensive, but they do have value. White Dwarf is seriously lacking.

A concerned fanboy,

- Ben"

**Herzlos**

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
A friend of mine who once worked in a GW store got in trouble for encouraging people to buy their glues elsewhere in craft shops (you were getting triple the amount for half the price of GW)

I know what your thinking, but he's a decent guy who believed in customer service even if it meant pointing them in another company's direction. They way he saw it was that why should low income kids get ripped off. Needless to say, he didn't last much longer at GW and the store suffered as a result. But for me, it summed up GW's thinking - i.e squeeze customers til they're dry.

The sad thing is many people will respect someone who points them to competitors for something that is more suitable (it's a fairly common trait in the wider industry, as most of the staff are genuine hobbyists), and will buy more from someone who is honest and not out to shaft them, so he may have lost out on a glue sale but made up in other areas with repeat customers.

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

Herzlos wrote:
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
A friend of mine who once worked in a GW store got in trouble for encouraging people to buy their glues elsewhere in craft shops (you were getting triple the amount for half the price of GW)

I know what your thinking, but he's a decent guy who believed in customer service even if it meant pointing them in another company's direction. They way he saw it was that why should low income kids get ripped off. Needless to say, he didn't last much longer at GW and the store suffered as a result. But for me, it summed up GW's thinking - i.e squeeze customers til they're dry.

The sad thing is many people will respect someone who points them to competitors for something that is more suitable (it's a fairly common trait in the wider industry, as most of the staff are genuine hobbyists), and will buy more from someone who is honest and not out to shaft them, so he may have lost out on a glue sale but made up in other areas with repeat customers.

Exactly. There are many people on this site who will tell you about popular GW managers trying to build a local gaming group, and sometimes they turned a blind eye to small things (rival minis or glue for example) and still being screwed by GW top brass. The end result was usually the store suffering and the gaming community suffering. I could tell you tales of people hassled for using a non GW tape measure in a GW store (despite spending $50 on stuff in the same store on a previous day), but most people would have similar stories to tell.

**Stranger83**

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
MeanGreenStompa wrote:
I admit I had hopes when a new lineup was announced and an improvement to the content promised.

It would appear 'what we are producing is considered crap' got through as a message, especially via the medium of sales. It would also appear that what was required to improve the magazine was not conveyed and the senior management's distance both from the fan-base and the product they sell was telling in this.

I believe we have seen a steady deterioration over the last 10 years and beyond as the company's higher echelons were moved over from people who'd come up through the company and were hobbyists, to recruited corporate management who had no interest in the product or it's consumers.

I have it on good authority from two people who worked at moderately senior positions in sales and the design/art studio, that several of the senior management have a directly antagonistic attitude to the 'nerds' that buy their products past a certain age (mid teens) and also a similarly low regard for their own devoted store employees recruited from enthusiastic gamers.

So, these elements are responsible for approving the content of the magazine and ensuring it has the 'correct' levels of advertising new stock and conveys the new stock's saleability. Is it any wonder it remains without merit as a hobbyists magazine when it's overseen by people who have a negative perception of the people who buy it?

You see it is crass nonsense when people cry Games Workshop hates us, because the folks in the stores don't and the folks in the design studio don't and the authors and the painters don't... But a number of the senior management have a very strong disdain for us and if I were running a company that makes 'the best model soldiers in the world' and discovered that several of my management team, that I'd brought into the company from other corporate positions, considered the product and it's customer base as 'sad nerds', I'd take those sharp suited lads out to the back yard and put a bullet in them, figuratively speaking... And even if I didn't do that, I'd remove them from the product approval process.

Spot on as usual. As I said earlier, If a company treats you with contempt, treat them with contempt. By this I mean, if you can get the same product cheaper somewhere else, go there. The modern corporate world is not interested in loyalty, and neither should you be. Vote with your wallet.

A friend of mine who once worked in a GW store got in trouble for encouraging people to buy their glues elsewhere in craft shops (you were getting triple the amount for half the price of GW)

I know what your thinking, but he's a decent guy who believed in customer service even if it meant pointing them in another company's direction. They way he saw it was that why should low income kids get ripped off. Needless to say, he didn't last much longer at GW and the store suffered as a result. But for me, it summed up GW's thinking - i.e squeeze customers til they're dry.

I haven’t read this entire thread so forgive me if the points I’m about to make have already been covered.

Whilst I agree somewhat that the “suits” in charge of GW have a degree of contempt for the mature gamer lets not forget that they have managed to change a company that was on the verge of going bust into a profitable and still successful business.

In “the good old days” when GW was being run by people interested in the hobby it may have been better for us as the customers that GW like it was, but the company was also making itself bankrupt due to poor business decisions as it was “better for the gamer”. The fact is if GW had gone bust 10 years ago (forgive me, I can’t remember exactly when GW was 'rescued' but it was around then) then a lot of the companies that have succeeded since them would have failed. GW are still responsible for giving the vast majority of gamers their first experience of wargaming.

Personally I quite like the current setup – GW aim at getting the kids in, those who become gamers ultimately moving to other companies that can focus on making games for gamers without having to worry about getting the kids interested in wargaming.

Would I take the old “we’re one of you” board of GW over the current “suits” – no I wouldn’t, I think that would be much worse for the hobby in the long term when GW went out of business. Of cause the best choice of would be a “suit” who is also a wargamer, but lets be honest, how many people who are capable of successfully running an international business also have the time to be fully into a hobby like wargaming? It’s probably few and far between.

**Loricatus Aurora**

There are a few on Dakka. Problem is aligning their hobby with a CV the board would accept.

**legoburner**

FYI, I spoke to Jes at games day and he was very aware of the specifics of WD discussion on this forum. I would say it is highly probably that he, or others in the WD team, will read this thread. Posting letters to him here is quite a very possible to make contact (but dont expect any reply).

As for myself, I am bordering on cancelling my subscription too. The last 2 issues have been dross, I've got every issue dating back to 144, (and a few earlier) so it is not a light decision to stop buying as I've been collecting for many many years. I just view it as a waste of space on my bookshelves these days. The first re-jigged issue was a minor improvement in content, but it has quickly slid back the other way and is a waste of money and space at the moment.

**Jburch**

Unfortunatly I too bought into the "New & Improved White Dwarf", and started up a subscription. I hadnt even touched a White Dwarf since around 2001, but with all the new rules updates and whatnot, I figured it should be worth the cost.

Boy was I wrong, I have recieved 2 issues now, and they have been lackluster. The bck 1/4 of the mag is nothing but adverts, while the rest of the mag is just mindless rabble. Where are the "How to" articles?

I am going to assume that GW figures they should not give up the good stuff for free, so they can release some 40 dollar book.

The way I see it is they have us all over a barrel. If you want the new rules, then buy the Mag. The Mag kinda sucks because you dont get meaningful content. If you want the meaningful content, then buy this hobby book, but you had better not cancel the mag, or you will lose out on the rules. O, and all the useful painting tips and guides on the GW website, have been removed...nothing is free kiddies!

**p_gray99**

My subscription's ended as well. I simply don't see why I should pay that much for something worth more when burned than read (especially in this weather). If I want to find out about tactics, dakka's better. If I want a battle report, I can once again go to dakka, while I also enjoy youtube ones where I can see what's happening far more easily. If I want to see some good painting or ask for advice, once again it's dakka to the rescue.

**Herzlos**

legoburner wrote:
FYI, I spoke to Jes at games day and he was very aware of the specifics of WD discussion on this forum. I would say it is highly probably that he, or others in the WD team, will read this thread. Posting letters to him here is quite a very possible to make contact (but dont expect any reply).

If that's the case I feel I need to point out that I won't be renewing my subscription either (and subscribing to WS&S), they've become so bad lately it's barely worth opening them*. The last one contained 2 interesting articles (Rivals and the Hobbit design interview with the Perry's) even if they were lacking in detail. The rest of the magazine seems like poorly concealed advertising/informercial.

I seriously recommend the staff at WD have a look at any older issue (say from 2+ years ago) and the Wargaming section of WH Smiths to see what other magazines in the field are capable of.

For instance, this months Wargames Illustrated (£4.50?) contains a series of articles on The French & Indian Wars (North America in the 1700's), the first of which contained more content than all of WD, and whilst I've no real interest in the period it was interesting because it was well written, contained some background and ideas on how to re-create some of the battles, as well as a set of fairly generic scenarios that I can use with any other game.

Compared to that, WD contained a lot of adverts for The Hobbit complete with hard to follow battle report and a list of paints to buy, some cheesy reviews for Black Library stuff, some filler stuff about gaming, some photos of an army, a brief discussion on what units are best, some pages on how the staff are painting things, and a huge listing of where all the store are.

*They get delivered. If I'd got a store subscription I probably wouldn't waste the time collecting them.

**Loricatus Aurora**

legoburner wrote:
FYI, I spoke to Jes at games day and he was very aware of the specifics of WD discussion on this forum. I would say it is highly probably that he, or others in the WD team, will read this thread. Posting letters to him here is quite a very possible to make contact (but dont expect any reply).

As for myself, I am bordering on cancelling my subscription too. The last 2 issues have been dross, I've got every issue dating back to 144, (and a few earlier) so it is not a light decision to stop buying as I've been collecting for many many years. I just view it as a waste of space on my bookshelves these days. The first re-jigged issue was a minor improvement in content, but it has quickly slid back the other way and is a waste of money and space at the moment.

Its the public face of the business.

Jes, crack some heads, bruise some egos, sort it out.