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40k-noob wrote:Now you are just filling in the blanks.

There are no rules for vertical movement except for buildings or ruins, and the pad isn't either of those.

How is the rule that specifically says that units can move up there with a difficult terrain test not a rule that says that they can move up there?

Crablezworth wrote:The empty space isn't empty space? What?

Models can move up to the skyshield as if they are moving through difficult terrain. so that empty space is difficult terrain, not empty space. It can't be empty space, because models can't fly unless they have a rule that specifically says that they can.

So either the skyshield is granting everyone the ability to fly (which it isn't) or the space under it looks empty, but is actually terrain...

The skyshield is messed up, as I believe has been mentioned. If it had just included an access ramp, all of this silliness could have been avoided.

 insaniak wrote:

40k-noob wrote:Now you are just filling in the blanks.

There are no rules for vertical movement except for buildings or ruins, and the pad isn't either of those.

How is the rule that specifically says that units can move up there with a difficult terrain test not a rule that says that they can move up there?

Crablezworth wrote:The empty space isn't empty space? What?

Models can move up to the skyshield as if they are moving through difficult terrain. so that empty space is difficult terrain, not empty space. It can't be empty space, because models can't fly unless they have a rule that specifically says that they can.

So either the skyshield is granting everyone the ability to fly (which it isn't) or the space under it looks empty, but is actually terrain...

The skyshield is messed up, as I believe has been mentioned. If it had just included an access ramp, all of this silliness could have been avoided.

So wait, you're saying you can just melt through the floor? what?

Moving on to and off of via difficult terrain is one thing, melting is another. The path a model takes is really important. I still don't understand the whole occupying thin air concept. If you're doing the whole melting thing wouldn't models still need to start their move at one of the 4 legs?

What you're saying is a rhino can drive underneath a skyshield landing pad then tank shock up through the pad? Really?

 Crablezworth wrote:
So wait, you're saying you can just melt through the floor? what?

Yes, of course. Just as you can move through trees in a forest base.

What you're saying is a rhino can drive underneath a skyshield landing pad then tank shock up through the pad? Really?

Yes, because you can move through the elements of difficult terrain. Aside from for LOS purposes, the physical objects in a difficult terrain piece are just there to show that there is a piece of difficult terrain there.

 Crablezworth wrote:
What you're saying is a rhino can drive underneath a skyshield landing pad then tank shock up through the pad? Really?

And that same Rhino can move through walls of ruins and tank shock models inside the ruins too. No different.

 insaniak wrote:

40k-noob wrote:Now you are just filling in the blanks.

There are no rules for vertical movement except for buildings or ruins, and the pad isn't either of those.

How is the rule that specifically says that units can move up there with a difficult terrain test not a rule that says that they can move up there?

For vehicles, difficult/dangerous is not allowance to move vertically. All it does it make the vehicle test for immobilization.

my concern is how can a tank move vertically off the table?

If a vehicle can move vertically, then next time my flyer gets locked velocity or has no worth while place to go then I am going to say it flew straight up(what ever required amount of inches) and then back down to land in the same place so I can fire at my same target.

I am sorry but I have yet to see any allowance for vertical movement.

40k-noob wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

40k-noob wrote:Now you are just filling in the blanks.

There are no rules for vertical movement except for buildings or ruins, and the pad isn't either of those.

How is the rule that specifically says that units can move up there with a difficult terrain test not a rule that says that they can move up there?

For vehicles, difficult/dangerous is not allowance to move vertically.

In this case it is. Specifically.

Editing to add:
Or if you prefer, it is an allowance to move diagonally up or down.
Either way the allowance is there, as vehicles are units.

Perhaps you would be better server teleporting them up there?
In any case, the (sufficiently high) difficult terrain roll allows units to move on to the pad.

40k-noob wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

40k-noob wrote:Now you are just filling in the blanks.

There are no rules for vertical movement except for buildings or ruins, and the pad isn't either of those.

How is the rule that specifically says that units can move up there with a difficult terrain test not a rule that says that they can move up there?

For vehicles, difficult/dangerous is not allowance to move vertically. All it does it make the vehicle test for immobilization.

my concern is how can a tank move vertically off the table?

If a vehicle can move vertically, then next time my flyer gets locked velocity or has no worth while place to go then I am going to say it flew straight up(what ever required amount of inches) and then back down to land in the same place so I can fire at my same target.

I am sorry but I have yet to see any allowance for vertical movement.

The rules say to move on or off the pad counts as moving through difficult terrain.
I suppose you're saying you can't drive up the hill on the board, as that's vertical too?

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

40k-noob wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

40k-noob wrote:Now you are just filling in the blanks.

There are no rules for vertical movement except for buildings or ruins, and the pad isn't either of those.

How is the rule that specifically says that units can move up there with a difficult terrain test not a rule that says that they can move up there?

For vehicles, difficult/dangerous is not allowance to move vertically. All it does it make the vehicle test for immobilization.

my concern is how can a tank move vertically off the table?

If a vehicle can move vertically, then next time my flyer gets locked velocity or has no worth while place to go then I am going to say it flew straight up(what ever required amount of inches) and then back down to land in the same place so I can fire at my same target.

I am sorry but I have yet to see any allowance for vertical movement.

The rules say to move on or off the pad counts as moving through difficult terrain.
I suppose you're saying you can't drive up the hill on the board, as that's vertical too?

If that hill has a cliff face, I'd say no to levitating up a cliff face. I guess I'm weird like that...


I guess we're back to this again.

 Crablezworth wrote:
If that hill has a cliff face, I'd say no to levitating up a cliff face. I guess I'm weird like that...

That is not being weird, that is being wrong. If there is a written rule allowing it, there is no legitimate reason to say the rule is wrong.


Editing to add:
Or read what insaniak wrote.


The rule makes perfect sense, even if what it is represented by does not.

Again, this is crable ignoring the actual wms rules in favour of a local house rule. You can, indeed, move onto the sky shield with a difficult terrain test, vexauses that's what the rules actually say.

None of those are actually legal, except for the skyshield one... and in actual practice, I suspect that the skyshield would only be allowed for assaulting. Most players would expect you to move either completely on or completely off.

Again, WMS doesn't give you permission to put the model somewhere it couldn't otherwise go. It just lets you consider a model to be position in a place where it is legally allowed to move but can not physically stand.

A model is allowed to move up to a skyshield despite there being nothing for it to actually stand on on the way up there. So the space leading up to it is a valid position for WMS.

There is no rule that lets a model balance on top of a tree on a branch that isn't big enough for it to actually stand on.

Still I would like to see the rule that allows for vertical movement off the table so I can make use of it with my Flyers and FMC's.

I Know for fact that Difficult/Dangerous mentions nothing about moving off the table

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Again, this is crable ignoring the actual wms rules in favour of a local house rule. You can, indeed, move onto the sky shield with a difficult terrain test, vexauses that's what the rules actually say.

Well to be fair the actual nature of the terrain rules states that you're supposed to define how terrain works before the game... and with Skyshields I'd make that a priority.

And if the space beneath a Skyshield is DT, then does that mean we still get LOS through it? Might be better to just scratch-build a Skyshield with access ramps on it and no empty space beneath...

40k-noob wrote:
Still I would like to see the rule that allows for vertical movement off the table so I can make use of it with my Flyers and FMC's.

There is no rule that allows for vertical movement off the table. That's not what is being discussed. The rule under discussion is one that allows you to move vertically up onto a Skyshield.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
And if the space beneath a Skyshield is DT, then does that mean we still get LOS through it?

Yes. Why wouldn't you? You get LOS through a forest.

 insaniak wrote:

40k-noob wrote:
Still I would like to see the rule that allows for vertical movement off the table so I can make use of it with my Flyers and FMC's.

There is no rule that allows for vertical movement off the table. That's not what is being discussed. The rule under discussion is one that allows you to move vertically up onto a Skyshield.

And how exactly does a rhino do that if not moving vertically off the table and then moved onto the Pad. What you are saying is that a Tank can do this ( See Red arrows)and I want to know what rule allows that?



PS Check out my awesome drawing skills!!! Woot!!

 kirsanth wrote:
The rule makes perfect sense, even if what it is represented by does not.

See your image and compare it to the rules text.

40k-noob wrote:
And how exactly does a rhino do that if not moving vertically off the table and then moved onto the Pad.

Yes, it's moving vertically. That doesn't give you permission to just move up into the air anywhere on the table. It is a specific permission given in the skyshield rules.

...and I want to know what rule allows that?

The rule has been pointed out numerous times.

A rule that says you can move up onto the skysheild means that you can move up onto the skyshield. I'm honestly boggled as to just what is unclear about that.

 insaniak wrote:

40k-noob wrote:
And how exactly does a rhino do that if not moving vertically off the table and then moved onto the Pad.

Yes, it's moving vertically. That doesn't give you permission to just move up into the air anywhere on the table. It is a specific permission given in the skyshield rules.

...and I want to know what rule allows that?

The rule has been pointed out numerous times.

A rule that says you can move up onto the skysheild means that you can move up onto the skyshield. I'm honestly boggled as to just what is unclear about that.

Again, Difficult/Dangerous for a vehicle is not an allowance to move vertically, it is purely a test for immobilization. Nothing more.

Per BRB
"Vehicles are not slowed down by difficult terrain. However, they treat all difficult terrain as dangerous terrain instead. A vehicle that fails a Dangerous Terrain test is instantly Immobilized "

Nothing in that rule say you can make your tank move vertically off the table and onto the Pad.

Lets just say, for arguments sake that you can, what happens to the tank if it fails the test and becomes immobilized?

Does end up like this:

40k-noob wrote:
Again, Difficult/Dangerous for a vehicle is not an allowance to move vertically, it is purely a test for immobilization. Nothing more.

Thankfully we have the (repeatedly quoted) Skyshield landing pad rules letting us know that the same roll allows a model to move up onto it.

Editing to add:
Your pictures have no cats, and so have no value in this conversation.

 kirsanth wrote:

40k-noob wrote:
Again, Difficult/Dangerous for a vehicle is not an allowance to move vertically, it is purely a test for immobilization. Nothing more.

Thankfully we have the (repeatedly quoted) Skyshield landing pad rules letting us know that the same roll allows a model to move up onto it.

Editing to add:
Your pictures have no cats, and so have no value in this conversation.

Cats are embarked

40k-noob wrote:

Nothing in that rule say you can make your tank move vertically off the table

Why do you keep saying that like anyone in this thread has said so except you?

It never leaves the table. It goes into terrain.

40k-noob wrote:
Again, Difficult/Dangerous for a vehicle is not an allowance to move vertically, it is purely a test for immobilization. Nothing more.

Once again, the Skyshield rules say that it can move up onto the skyshield. Why would you assume that this does not allow it to move up onto the skyshield?

Lets just say, for arguments sake that you can, what happens to the tank if it fails the test and becomes immobilized?

I already answered that. It stops at the point that it enteres the terrain, which would be level with the edge of the terrain piece.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBOKWCpwGfM

OIIIIIIO wrote:
Check this out for Jumping Tanks ... thats my bag BABY

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I loved that game

Again, what does an infantry model have to roll to be on the pad? What does it have to roll to get off the pad?

 Crablezworth wrote:
Again, what does an infantry model have to roll to be on the pad? What does it have to roll to get off the pad?

up: roll 2d6 you need a 4+ (its 3.5" tall)
down: roll 2d6 you need a 4+, or jump

 Crablezworth wrote:
Again, what does an infantry model have to roll to be on the pad? What does it have to roll to get off the pad?

Are you expecting a different answer?

Now is that 4 or higher if the model is in base with the skyshield or do they moonwalk at a 45 degree angle through the air (which is apparently difficult terrain)?

If infantry models can't see the unit they want to assault, does wobbly model syndrome get around it?

 Crablezworth wrote:
Now is that 4 or higher if the model is in base with the skyshield or do they moonwalk at a 45 degree angle through the air (which is apparently difficult terrain)?

Only the space contained by the terrain feature is difficult terrain. The space around it is not.

This really isn't as complicated as you seem intent on making it.

If infantry models can't see the unit they want to assault, does wobbly model syndrome get around it?

Why would WMS have anything to do with LOS?

 insaniak wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:
Now is that 4 or higher if the model is in base with the skyshield or do they moonwalk at a 45 degree angle through the air (which is apparently difficult terrain)?

Only the space contained by the terrain feature is difficult terrain. The space around it is not.

This really isn't as complicated as you seem intent on making it.

If infantry models can't see the unit they want to assault, does wobbly model syndrome get around it?

Why would WMS have anything to do with LOS?

Still not sure where you're getting the whole the air underneath it is terrain stuff from.