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 TheCaptain wrote:

 Kasrkin229 wrote:
I'm going to piggy back if you don't mind , I take mech guard , what allies would be best?

How much artillery are you packing?

A manticore , couple Russ 's 5 chimeras , , 2 vendettas and mostly vets

 Kasrkin229 wrote:

 TheCaptain wrote:

 Kasrkin229 wrote:
I'm going to piggy back if you don't mind , I take mech guard , what allies would be best?

How much artillery are you packing?

A manticore , couple Russ 's 5 chimeras, 2 vendettas and mostly vets

Yeah, you don't need any allies.

Just a vulture and more chimeras. Maybe a Hellhound (what? someone suggested a Hellhound?) or another Vendetta

I would agree. When you go mech guard it is best to run with as many vets as possible. Unless your allies can really contribute to the list. This space wolves detachment will be perfect for my list as I normally use stormies but the stormy squad also is more fragile and easier to kill. With the pods there is always a better chance at them mishaping if they dont scatter off the board. FINALLY the biggest bonus to these allies is that they can score!!!!! stormies dont so it will allow me to do some hurt on my opponent while I also have the possibility to score of his objectives, get line breaker and if I go first possibly get first blood because of the turn 1 pod strike. With the Hunters in my opponents deployment terrorizing it allows the rest of my force to advance up the table and live a little more easily because the grey hunters will just tear anything apart if they are left alone. I really like this strategy, I just now need to create a list for it.

For a list similar to yours, I use a Rune Priest in TDA, and two 5 man GH squads in TL LC Razorbacks. I put the RP with the infantry, the armor is to give the IC a better chance at surviving sniping hits. The small GH packs go in to reserve, and usually when they come on I have a good use for them. IIRC this is 430 points.

Is a rune priest better off in power armor or if I have the extra points should I give him the terminator armor? Its for a more gun line based list.

tankboy145 wrote:
Is a rune priest better off in power armor or if I have the extra points should I give him the terminator armor? Its for a more gun line based list.

No reason to do so.

-Surviving Sniping

-Challenges

-TDA is super cool and tanky

None of these are important; TDA is a waste of points for a guy hidden in a blob.

Sniping is silly and non-threatening. 3+ save, Look out sir, and two wounds. He'll be fine.

Challenges should be taken with your sergeant. In any melee combat, you want to counter attack, get some hits in, lose, flee, and shoot him during your turn thanks to ATSKNF. Rune Priest shouldn't risk himself.

TDA is super cool and tanky, but there are better things to spend points on in the guard list.

Okay yea I wasnt sure but I see where your going, there will be more than enough guardsmen to take wounds for him.

So for the space wolves allies im looking at

Rune Priest 100pts (divination)

10 grey hunters with 2 melta guns, pod 195pts
10 grey hunters with 2 melta guns, pod 195 pts

totaling 490pts seems pretty legit and good enough to get some solid scoring units in the enemies DZ and the rune priest will make a blob of guardsmen do some nasty stuff.

tankboy145 wrote:
Okay yea I wasnt sure but I see where your going, there will be more than enough guardsmen to take wounds for him.

So for the space wolves allies im looking at

Rune Priest 100pts (divination)

10 grey hunters with 2 melta guns, pod 195pts
10 grey hunters with 2 melta guns, pod 195 pts

totaling 490pts seems pretty legit and good enough to get some solid scoring units in the enemies DZ and the rune priest will make a blob of guardsmen do some nasty stuff.

Should be plenty of allied goodness, without dumping so many points in that it cripples your army.

Unless this list is less than 1850.

If its 1750 or below, 500 points of allies is a bit too much.

Would TDA stop a blob from sweeping? if so, that is a good enough reason to stick with power armour.

 Trickstick wrote:
Would TDA stop a blob from sweeping? if so, that is a good enough reason to stick with power armour.

Indeed it would. Although as far as I can remember, I've never been given the chance to sweep, most of the assaults my blob is in are a loss even though I manage to kill a lot of enemies in reply. That's what ATSKNF is for!

I run my RP with power armor, just because I could never find those 20pts. After a few games I realised I didn't even need those 20pts, especially as you generally have 3+ sergeants to take those challenges.

Oh yea forgot to mention most of my games are at 2000pts, and I would agree that anything less than 2000pts allies will cost too much and wont be effective much. So anything less and I will have pure guard but anything 2000+ I will be experimenting with the wolves.

The Captain: I agree that SWs are best ally for foot guard, but you get the counter-attack rule wrong. It will not transfer to the whole unit. Only RP gets extra attack...

btw. I am running mostly 1000 points guard. Do you think that allies can be used even in this list, or is it too low points wise?

 Lothar wrote:
The Captain: I agree that SWs are best ally for foot guard, but you get the counter-attack rule wrong. It will not transfer to the whole unit. Only RP gets extra attack...

btw. I am running mostly 1000 points guard. Do you think that allies can be used even in this list, or is it too low points wise?

Wrong. Read the BRB "A unit that has at least one model with this special rule"

1000pts it's best to stick to what the codex does best imo. Cheap units and lots of them, people struggle with it at the low point range.

I was thinking of IG w/CSM as an ally. The CSM would serve mainly as a close combat threat along with an extra shooty squad. The CSM in the Rhino can do some shooting and with the Dirge Caster, prevent overwatch on the Lord/Spawn unit. The Havocs basically serve as T5 Devastators.

Maybe something like this:

Khorne Lord, Juggernaut, Axe of Blind Fury, Sigil of Corruption, VotLW
5x CSM, Plasma Gun, Rhino, Havoc Launcher, Dirge Caster
3x Spawn (for the Lord to run with)
5x Havocs, Nurgle, 4x Autocannon

btw. I am running mostly 1000 points guard. Do you think that allies can be used even in this list, or is it too low points wise?

Wayyyyy too low. A cheap allied detachment will still be around 300 points; 700 points for a primary is not enough for a cohesive force.

MascisMan wrote:
I was thinking of IG w/CSM as an ally. The CSM would serve mainly as a close combat threat along with an extra shooty squad. The CSM in the Rhino can do some shooting and with the Dirge Caster, prevent overwatch on the Lord/Spawn unit. The Havocs basically serve as T5 Devastators.

Maybe something like this:

Khorne Lord, Juggernaut, Axe of Blind Fury, Sigil of Corruption, VotLW
5x CSM, Plasma Gun, Rhino, Havoc Launcher, Dirge Caster
3x Spawn (for the Lord to run with)
5x Havocs, Nurgle, 4x Autocannon

I don't like it.

What does it bring that IG can't? The only thing I see that IG can't do better is a fast assault unit. Although you've put a lot of points into that, and it's not even that useful, taking more guns would be better than taking a unit that has no back-up and will charge off on its own.

Oh wow I completely forgot that the rune priest gave the blob counter attack. This unit could be deadly as if you Prescience to re-roll your to hits and if you have a PCS or CCS give the order of FRFSRF, Thats also even deadlier with And they shall no no fear, As the squad will probably fall back if not locked in combat which then means when they auto regroup they will be in rapid fire range for more crazy deadly shooting!

Also I am fairly new to psykers and this will be the first time EVER using one. Ive read the rules but couldnt find clarification BUT lets say the blob is out of range of firing, can the rune priest use prescience on my LRBT to allow them to reroll the scatter dice?(wasnt sure if you could use psychic powers on vehicles).

 Griddlelol wrote:

 Lothar wrote:
The Captain: I agree that SWs are best ally for foot guard, but you get the counter-attack rule wrong. It will not transfer to the whole unit. Only RP gets extra attack...

btw. I am running mostly 1000 points guard. Do you think that allies can be used even in this list, or is it too low points wise?

Wrong. Read the BRB "A unit that has at least one model with this special rule"

 TheCaptain wrote:


C'mon man, don't correct someone unless you're sure that you're right. Check the rulebook. It's the whole unit.

-Tournament player that needs to be sure of rules like that.

Incredible that people still play this wrong! Just because TonyK played this wrong in a big tournament some time ago does not mean it is correct.

It isn't Lothar who needs to check the rulebook....The blob does NOT get counter attack. Griddlelol even started quoting the right passage in the rules. I suggest you continue reading the Counter-Attack USR in full instead of stopping after the first sentence.

 TheCaptain wrote:

 Lothar wrote:
The Captain: I agree that SWs are best ally for foot guard, but you get the counter-attack rule wrong. It will not transfer to the whole unit. Only RP gets extra attack...

C'mon man, don't correct someone unless you're sure that you're right. Check the rulebook. It's the whole unit.

-Tournament player that needs to be sure of rules like that.


.

"every model with the CA rule in the unit gets +1 Attack" pg 35 BGB

Yes it is only the models with the Counter attack rule. Also as noted above are you able to use prescience to reroll scatter dice for the LRBT? wasnt sure if you could use psycker powers on vehicles.

To be technical, the Blob DOES get to counter attack if the unit contains a single model with counter attack. The +1 attack, however, only applies to models that actually have counter attack.

Counter attack has 2 parts, the leadership check which applies to the entire unit, and the +1 attack bonus that only models with counter attack get if successful.

Kind of like how the leadership ability of fearless applies to an entire unit if even one model has it, the leadership part of counter attack applies to the entire unit.

 TheCaptain wrote:


C'mon man, don't correct someone unless you're sure that you're right. Check the rulebook. It's the whole unit.

C'mon man, don't correct someone unless you're sure that you're right. Check the rulebook. It's NOT the whole unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Griddlelol wrote:

Wrong. Read the BRB "A unit that has at least one model with this special rule"
.

You know what? You should read the rule in the book...before you begin to correct me...

 Lothar wrote:

 TheCaptain wrote:


C'mon man, don't correct someone unless you're sure that you're right. Check the rulebook. It's the whole unit.

C'mon man, don't correct someone unless you're sure that you're right. Check the rulebook. It's NOT the whole unit.

Know what's cute?

Snarky attitude.

 TheCaptain wrote:

 Lothar wrote:

 TheCaptain wrote:


C'mon man, don't correct someone unless you're sure that you're right. Check the rulebook. It's the whole unit.

C'mon man, don't correct someone unless you're sure that you're right. Check the rulebook. It's NOT the whole unit.

Know what's cute?

Snarky attitude.

Posting rules interpretations that are clearly wrong with some rough words to someone who posted the correct interpretation calls for a like-for-like response, no need to be surprised at that. That you signed your post with something like "a tournament player who needs to know this" makes it even more ridiculous.

And editing out your post doesn't change the fact.

Aleinikov wrote:

Posting rules interpretations that are clearly wrong with some rough words to someone who posted the correct interpretation calls for a like-for-like response, no need to be surprised at that.

Out stateside, as kids we learn that two wrongs don't make a right.

I'm actually thinnking of running SW with my mech guard. I want to take 2x Grey Hunters Squads with Meltas + Wolf Standards and a 5x Wolf Guard Squad Loaded up Combi-Plasma and Rune Priest in a Drop Pod.

This will add something to my list that I lack. 2x Melta gun units hitting AV14 in melta range turn 1 I find Mech Guard losts lack the ability to drop heavy tanks turn 1. The Wolf guard are there to give me a third Drop pod to get 2 down turn 1 and they make a nice unit to put in the Rune Priest.

The rest of the army moves forwards and hits the enemy.