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The Powers knew that Sauron and other evil beigns were still around, so they sent the Istari to lend a hand to the sons of Ilúvatar.

Thing is, they weren't to make displays of their divine power, so they were incarnated in the bodies of old men and were forbade to use their full powers until it was fully needed.

Tibbsy wrote:

 Dark wrote:

Still, they didn't held the rights on The Silmarillion, so they couldn't even quote stuff from there (like the Blue Wizard's names, Allatar and Pallando), but they still held rights over The Lord of the Rings, and that made the appendices fair game.

So that's why Gandalf conveniently forgot their names I was wondering why that was, because it doesn't strike me as being much like Gandalf to forget something like that....

I'm guessing it was more of a joke, since Tolkien couldn't seem to decide on the names of the blue wizards (he gives them different names in a couple different works). Not having the rights to other books shouldn't prevent them from referring to the two other wizards by name if they wanted to, as character names cannot be copyrighted.

Tibbsy wrote:

 Dark wrote:

Still, they didn't held the rights on The Silmarillion, so they couldn't even quote stuff from there (like the Blue Wizard's names, Allatar and Pallando), but they still held rights over The Lord of the Rings, and that made the appendices fair game.

So that's why Gandalf conveniently forgot their names I was wondering why that was, because it doesn't strike me as being much like Gandalf to forget something like that....

I didn't even know they were named- most of the time they're just referred to as the blue wizards, and in the works Tolkein released when he was alive, they weren't named, so it's more of an in-joke.

Frazzled wrote:What was the point of the wizards again?

to lend a hand to the free folk of middle earth against any and all evils.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:


And it’s kinda sad having Balin in the film, knowing his eventual fate.

FETHING SPOILER ALERT.

Hahahahaha!

He's talking about Balin's fate in Lord of the Rings movies!

Plus I reckon 99% of the people watching the hobbit have seen lord of the rings... also sad to know the fates of Ori and Oin...

Ah, n/m. I couldn't place Balin for the life of me but it comes together now.

No worries.

What are they going to add to these films to make 3 movies at nearly 3 hours each?

Lots of grinding. A couple hours of them killing giant rats, bears and the odd displacer beast or two. Gotta level after all.

 kronk wrote:
No worries.

What are they going to add to these films to make 3 movies at nearly 3 hours each?

I'm guessing the next one will have beorn, mirkwood, dale and then the misty mountain (ending with smaug's death), then the second will have the necromancer vs the white council about an hour in, then the lead-up to the battle of five armies.
Not sure what they'd have as filler, but mirkwood has enough fight scenes to keep the audience interested long enough for smaug.

 kronk wrote:
No worries.

What are they going to add to these films to make 3 movies at nearly 3 hours each?

-Some battle with the necro after more evil forboding.
-Legolas will appear and kill a troll, and maybe Smaug. In fact I'm sure of it. He will be the one that shoots Smaug, after wasting 437 orks.
-four more ork battles in the second book as Azog pursues them. Indeed, its Azog's invasion of the woods that frees them from the elves.

And why do these computer orks look so different (and less scary) than the LOTR orks?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 shrike wrote:

 kronk wrote:
No worries.

What are they going to add to these films to make 3 movies at nearly 3 hours each?

I'm guessing the next one will have beorn, mirkwood, dale and then the misty mountain (ending with smaug's death), then the second will have the necromancer vs the white council about an hour in, then the lead-up to the battle of five armies.
Not sure what they'd have as filler, but mirkwood has enough fight scenes to keep the audience interested long enough for smaug.

interesting. If they whack Smaug in the 2nd movie I've no real interest in the 3rd...

My wild guesses for second movie:

Beörn right after the movie starts, hints of Azog, Mirkwood with Elven kingdom and reaching Esgaroth (not Dale, that one was destroyed).

It'll have ore White Council, and perhaps (and it's a big if) Gollum pursueing Bilbo and getting captured by the elves.

 Frazzled wrote:
-Some battle with the necro after more evil forboding.
-Legolas will appear and kill a troll, and maybe Smaug. In fact I'm sure of it. He will be the one that shoots Smaug, after wasting 437 orks.

-four more ork battles in the second book as Azog pursues them. Indeed, its Azog's invasion of the woods that frees them from the elves.

I doubt very, very, very much Legolas will kill smaug. Unless you're being sarcastic, of course.
...what about the barrel riding?
FOUR orc battles? They already have the spiders and the necromancer- I was thinking one, maybe two.

Frazzled wrote:And why do these computer orks look so different (and less scary) than the LOTR orks?

I didn't really notice, though remember- they're Gundabad orcs, as opposed to Mordor- same with the wargs. Plus, the hobbit's more lighthearted generally, maybe it was deliberate.

Frazzled wrote:interesting. If they whack Smaug in the 2nd movie I've no real interest in the 3rd...

well it is called the desolation of smaug... and you're willing to miss out on the battle of five armies?



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dark wrote:
My wild guesses for second movie:

Beörn right after the movie starts, hints of Azog, Mirkwood with Elven kingdom and reaching Esgaroth (not Dale, that one was destroyed).

It'll have ore White Council, and perhaps (and it's a big if) Gollum pursueing Bilbo and getting captured by the elves.

Esgaroth, Dale, same thing
though yeah, good guess about Gollum as said in the LotR... didn't think of that.

I doubt very, very, very much Legolas will kill smaug. Unless you're being sarcastic, of course.
...what about the barrel riding?

I was being sarcastic. There will only be two.

FOUR orc battles? They already have the spiders and the necromancer- I was thinking one, maybe two.

They won’t hit the necromancer until three. In fact, Legolas won’t whack Smaug until three.
So it will be spiders scary! Complete with Radagast and the vorpal bunnies to the rescue. Then they will get trapped by the elves and freed by the Ork Attack. Along the way they will meet up with Legolas, (who can be seen doing his hair in the background when they are first captured by elves). Legolas will almost singlehanded wipe out the second attack. Special guest star Don Henley as the head eagle, Peter Jackson as a young Mouth of Sauron.

I didn't really notice, though remember- they're Gundabad orcs, as opposed to Mordor- same with the wargs. Plus, the hobbit's more lighthearted generally, maybe it was deliberate.

Seriously for a moment, please clarify. Whats the difference?

Frazzled wrote: Seriously for a moment, please clarify. Whats the difference?

Not as much as Moria's orcs from the rest, but still different.

What do you even mean legolas whacking smaug? If i remember some gaunt human that was noted as 'brooding' shoots some lucky arrow into smaug's underside and he dies (as given through a note or 'whisper speech BS' sent by a bird from bilbo). Apparently you should never mess with a guy that whispers to birds.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
What do you even mean legolas whacking smaug? If i remember some gaunt human that was noted as 'brooding' shoots some lucky arrow into smaug's underside and he dies (as given through a note or 'whisper speech BS' sent by a bird from bilbo). Apparently you should never mess with a guy that whispers to birds.

No no thats the Book. Who reads books? Legolas will slide down the steps we send at the end of the first movie, on a shield. As he lands the thrush will tell him what to do. He'll pop an arrow and Smaug will come crashing down. Later he will get into a drinking contest with Gloin and his fingertips will start to tingle.

Yeah i wasn't sure if you were joking or not.

I hate elves anyway. I think Tolkien supposedly secretly wanted to be an elf and maybe had it as a fetish he used to get in the mood. Was the part where they have to speak the elvish word for 'friend' to open up the doorway to Moria a part of the books too? I never read the LotR trilogy (only 'the hobbit') but the dwarves and elves hate each other so why is some secret passageway that dwarves made opened only in the elvish tongue. It's kind of dumb to me.

Ugh somebody should totally change how elves are. They are just so hippie-like and arrogant. It's really disgusting to go through.

One thing peter jackson did i really liked was that he avoided almost all the songs. Dear god did i hate those songs. A friend said there was 20 pages of Sam singing about gandalf's fight against balrog in LotR even though they never witnessed it or something. How does he even know what happened?

I was kind of bothered by the one song the dwarves sing in bilbo's hobbit-hole during 'The Hobbit'. Dude the dwarves were a bunch of d**chebags by eating all of bilbo's food, mishandling all his stuff and then making fun of him. Then gandalf laughs at all this merriment. I half expected some *sshole to jump out and say "You go Punk'd!" to bilbo's face or something. God poor Bilbo. What a bunch of fantasy d**chebags.

Dude, the Songs are the best part of the Hobbit. Book and Movie.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Yeah i wasn't sure if you were joking or not.

I hate elves anyway. I think Tolkien supposedly secretly wanted to be an elf and maybe had it as a fetish he used to get in the mood. Was the part where they have to speak the elvish word for 'friend' to open up the doorway to Moria a part of the books too? I never read the LotR trilogy (only 'the hobbit') but the dwarves and elves hate each other so why is some secret passageway that dwarves made opened only in the elvish tongue. It's kind of dumb to me.

Dwarves and elves didn't hated each other since day one, and the noldor had busissness with them. If I recall later, things went ill when Fingon didn't payed a proper price for a couple dwarves that crafter the nauglamir, and in response they killed Fingon.

Ugh somebody should totally change how elves are. They are just so hippie-like and arrogant. It's really disgusting to go through.

You would have totally loved the (cut from the movie) song the elves sing when the company reaches Rivendell.

One thing peter jackson did i really liked was that he avoided almost all the songs. Dear god did i hate those songs. A friend said there was 20 pages of Sam singing about gandalf's fight against balrog in LotR even though they never witnessed it or something. How does he even know what happened?

To each their own, I would have loved to hear the previously mentioned song, and the cruel song sang by the orcs when the company was on the blazing pines.

I was kind of bothered by the one song the dwarves sing in bilbo's hobbit-hole during 'The Hobbit'. Dude the dwarves were a bunch of d**chebags by eating all of bilbo's food, mishandling all his stuff and then making fun of him. Then gandalf laughs at all this merriment. I half expected some *sshole to jump out and say "You go Punk'd!" to bilbo's face or something. God poor Bilbo. What a bunch of fantasy d**chebags.

Didn't they cleaned everything while they sang that? And after that adventure Bilbo was gonna be either dead or rich, so in both case it wouldn't matter :p

Frazzled wrote:

I doubt very, very, very much Legolas will kill smaug. Unless you're being sarcastic, of course.
...what about the barrel riding?

I was being sarcastic. There will only be two.

FOUR orc battles? They already have the spiders and the necromancer- I was thinking one, maybe two.

They won’t hit the necromancer until three. In fact, Legolas won’t whack Smaug until three.

why's the second one called the desolation of smaug? If the necromancer and smaug are both killed in three, what will the finale for the second film be? Sorry, but I reckon both deaths will be in the second.

Frazzled wrote:So it will be spiders scary! Complete with Radagast and the vorpal bunnies to the rescue. Then they will get trapped by the elves and freed by the Ork Attack. Along the way they will meet up with Legolas, (who can be seen doing his hair in the background when they are first captured by elves). Legolas will almost singlehanded wipe out the second attack. Special guest star Don Henley as the head eagle, Peter Jackson as a young Mouth of Sauron.

they escape in the barrels- it's shown in the production video and mentioned in several interviews "oh the barrel seen is going to be good", or "my favourite part is when we all went down the river in the barrels". Legolas (and some elf chick) will be fighting orcs in mirkwood, but that won't be how they are freed.

I didn't really notice, though remember- they're Gundabad orcs, as opposed to Mordor- same with the wargs. Plus, the hobbit's more lighthearted generally, maybe it was deliberate.

Seriously for a moment, please clarify. Whats the difference?

as in, they might look different because they're from a different area of middle earth, just like the wargs.

flamingkillamajig wrote:Yeah i wasn't sure if you were joking or not.

I hate elves anyway. I think Tolkien supposedly secretly wanted to be an elf and maybe had it as a fetish he used to get in the mood. Was the part where they have to speak the elvish word for 'friend' to open up the doorway to Moria a part of the books too? I never read the LotR trilogy (only 'the hobbit') but the dwarves and elves hate each other so why is some secret passageway that dwarves made opened only in the elvish tongue. It's kind of dumb to me.

Elves used to have a strong friendship with dwarves, and they often visited each other. It only really went downhill for Thorin after Erebor got taken (though there was hostilities before that with the dwarves of Khazad Dum). Anyway, Tolkein likes elves. Doesn't mean he gets off on the idea of them.

Ugh somebody should totally change how elves are. They are just so hippie-like and arrogant. It's really disgusting to go through.

that's the point- elves have to have flaws- when you're immortal and just about the best at everything (minus mining and metalwork), arrogance tends to fester.

One thing peter jackson did i really liked was that he avoided almost all the songs. Dear god did i hate those songs. A friend said there was 20 pages of Sam singing about gandalf's fight against balrog in LotR even though they never witnessed it or something. How does he even know what happened?

your friend seems to be pulling that out of somewhere other than the book, if you catch my drift- frodo sings six verses about him, and sam adds another about gandalf's fireworks.

I was kind of bothered by the one song the dwarves sing in bilbo's hobbit-hole during 'The Hobbit'. Dude the dwarves were a bunch of d**chebags by eating all of bilbo's food, mishandling all his stuff and then making fun of him. Then gandalf laughs at all this merriment. I half expected some *sshole to jump out and say "You go Punk'd!" to bilbo's face or something. God poor Bilbo. What a bunch of fantasy d**chebags.

...dwarves are stubborn, grouchy, blunt people who don't make time for formalities or politeness, especially when they think they've been invited. There are 14 of them- you think they're going to nibble a couple of scones and sip some tea? They made fun of him for him fretting about his dishes when they were completely fine, and gandalfs knows they're fine so he laughs too- have you never made a harmless joke at someone else's expense? I suggest you re watch it, adding in their natural bluntness, hunger from a long travel to the shire, camaraderie between the dwarves and them having a laugh at their worrysome friend.

@dark: Woah they killed some dude for not paying a 'good price'? How totally harsh and uncool not to mention over-reacting to something. Sheesh just throw the guy in jail or prison or something, demand payment, bar trade or similar but straight up killing somebody is a lot. Who is this Fingon anyway? I'm very clueless about anything outside of 'The Hobbit' book and the LotR movies which as i hear horribly portray the books.

Except i read 'The Hobbit' so i already read that stupid song the elves sang grudgingly.

Doesn't matter that they cleaned everything as they still barged in unwelcomed and then proceeded to eat his food and completely disregard any respect in the least to bilbo or his property. Not to mention they make fun of him and eat all his food. At the very least if you are going to show up regardless if somebody wants you to or not you should at least let them know you're coming first....except in wars. That'd be mighty odd to let them know you're coming. It's not like they'd warm up a spot by the fire for you...or in the fire. Also being dead is generally not favorable. It's a good thing nobody looted bilbo's house when he was gone. You never really know when you're gone for months at a time.

@shrike: You have to understand man. I am joking when i say most of the stuff i say. You're supposed to take it in a humorous way. That's why i mentioned bilbo getting "Punk'd" and the dwarves being fantasy d**chebags.

My hatred of elves extends beyond tolkien's fantasy. I'm just so sick of hearing their loot playing, hippie tree-hugging and arrogance every time they're involved. Like most fantasy races they follow a specific path. They're a dying species even though they live forever and ever having magical and martial prowess and are excellent shots with the bow not to mention have fantasy creatures on their side. They generally try to leave the fate of the world (galaxy in the case of eldar) in others' hands while they try to distance themselves from it so they pretend they're not a part of it or it doesn't matter anyway (at least not to them). Also despite dying out this doesn't take away their superiority complex even though they realize in most fantasy worlds they are slowly becoming more and more irrelevant as they are nearly wiped out. I mean sure being super good at everything is cool but if your species is dying out that sort of starts to eliminate your view of being the superior race.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Doesn't matter that they cleaned everything as they still barged in unwelcomed and then proceeded to eat his food and completely disregard any respect in the least to bilbo or his property. Not to mention they make fun of him and eat all his food. At the very least if you are going to show up regardless if somebody wants you to or not you should at least let them know you're coming first....except in wars. That'd be mighty odd to let them know you're coming. It's not like they'd warm up a spot by the fire for you...or in the fire. Also being dead is generally not favorable. It's a good thing nobody looted bilbo's house when he was gone. You never really know when you're gone for months at a time.

let me break this down for you:
- They thought Bilbo was expecting them, and didn't find out because of their natural bluntness and lack of politeness.
- There were 13 dwarves, tired from several day's (more likely week's) travelling.
- They don't care for the niceties Bilbo has- the doily, the chest, the fine ale.
So that covers:
- "barging in"
- "eat all his food"
- "let them know you're coming first"
- "disregard bilbo's property"
- "make fun of him."

 Frazzled wrote:
What was the point of the wizards again?

I think an extreme simplification might be that the wizards in Middle Earth are a mix between Arch-Angels and Demi-Gods. I want to say that in the background Gandalf and Sauron are basically the same kind of being.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 shrike wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Doesn't matter that they cleaned everything as they still barged in unwelcomed and then proceeded to eat his food and completely disregard any respect in the least to bilbo or his property. Not to mention they make fun of him and eat all his food. At the very least if you are going to show up regardless if somebody wants you to or not you should at least let them know you're coming first....except in wars. That'd be mighty odd to let them know you're coming. It's not like they'd warm up a spot by the fire for you...or in the fire. Also being dead is generally not favorable. It's a good thing nobody looted bilbo's house when he was gone. You never really know when you're gone for months at a time.

let me break this down for you:
- They thought Bilbo was expecting them, and didn't find out because of their natural bluntness and lack of politeness.
- There were 13 dwarves, tired from several day's (more likely week's) travelling.
- They don't care for the niceties Bilbo has- the doily, the chest, the fine ale.
So that covers:
- "barging in"
- "eat all his food"
- "let them know you're coming first"
- "disregard bilbo's property"
- "make fun of him."

They did also do the dishes and left the place very nice and clean.

Whoops, typo, Fingon wasn't the right elf, this was Finrod, also known as Felagund (or Felakgundû by the dwarves) which meant "cave digger" (or so, I've only read the books in Spanish) and he was a noldor prince.

Said dwarves were also killed on their escape, and things became bitter between the two species.

 shrike wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Doesn't matter that they cleaned everything as they still barged in unwelcomed and then proceeded to eat his food and completely disregard any respect in the least to bilbo or his property. Not to mention they make fun of him and eat all his food. At the very least if you are going to show up regardless if somebody wants you to or not you should at least let them know you're coming first....except in wars. That'd be mighty odd to let them know you're coming. It's not like they'd warm up a spot by the fire for you...or in the fire. Also being dead is generally not favorable. It's a good thing nobody looted bilbo's house when he was gone. You never really know when you're gone for months at a time.

let me break this down for you:
- They thought Bilbo was expecting them, and didn't find out because of their natural bluntness and lack of politeness.
- There were 13 dwarves, tired from several day's (more likely week's) travelling.
- They don't care for the niceties Bilbo has- the doily, the chest, the fine ale.
So that covers:
- "barging in"
- "eat all his food"
- "let them know you're coming first"
- "disregard bilbo's property"
- "make fun of him."

Yeah i read your post after i already answered to the other person's. I can understand some of this but it is still humorous to think of them as fantasy d**ches. I suppose in this case it's more gandalf at fault.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Yeah i read your post after i already answered to the other person's. I can understand some of this but it is still humorous to think of them as fantasy d**ches. I suppose in this case it's more gandalf at fault.

he always meddles, but never without a reason- if he hadn't all but forced Bilbo to go, he wouldn't have found the ring, or saved the dwarves from the trolls/spiders/elves, and so smaug would have lived, sauron might have found the ring, and all of middle earth would have fallen... butterfly effect

My guess is they will kill Smaug in the second movie. The third movie will focus on the Battle of Five armies.

Smaug gets killed a fair distance from the end of the book and there is quite a bit of story afterwards.

 Grey Templar wrote:
My guess is they will kill Smaug in the second movie. The third movie will focus on the Battle of Five armies.

Smaug gets killed a fair distance from the end of the book and there is quite a bit of story afterwards.

aye, I hope they do a bit of follow-up after the battle, with Bilbo walking home with that Martin Freeman charm about him, with a pocket handkerchief and a good walking stick

 shrike wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Yeah i read your post after i already answered to the other person's. I can understand some of this but it is still humorous to think of them as fantasy d**ches. I suppose in this case it's more gandalf at fault.

he always meddles, but never without a reason- if he hadn't all but forced Bilbo to go, he wouldn't have found the ring, or saved the dwarves from the trolls/spiders/elves, and so smaug would have lived, sauron might have found the ring, and all of middle earth would have fallen... butterfly effect

Oh come on even a force wielding (star wars) wizard of power level 9000 couldn't forsee all that BS. It just so happened they found the ring and then gandalf found out about it's power. It's not like he could forsee all that. He only mildly assumed once the power was used and the writing on the ring was viewed through flame. It's not like Gollum's presence in a cave in the middle of nowhere beneath a goblin lair would be noticed by the forces of good. It was basically right under evil's nose the whole time just like frodo's trek all the way through to mordor. Geez guys we couldn't throw a few guards around the huge freaking volcano within our own fortress walls? You know just on the off chance they sneak their way in even with a small covert force or you know 2 traveller's on a journey through time and space and....well self-exploration of each other ;O. Yes i am hinting at the odd close bond Sam and Frodo got the second they went off on their own away from the fellowship. I know quite a few that joke about the closeness those two shared on their journeys.