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As you can see from my posts, I am no fan of GW's corporate policies. However, I do not think that the criticism of the wages of managers is in any way justified. Their base salary and benefits package is higher than comparable retail jobs.

GW is opening a store in Dayton, OH?!? Really...Dayton...No offense to the fine residents of Dayton, and Nise, if you ever somehow read this, Dayton is lovely. But one would think that Columbus or even Cincinnati would be a far better choice for a shop.

Never mind! It seems that there is a GW both in C-bus and the Nati...odd. I wonder when they opened. It has been a while since I moved away from Ohio, but I was never cognizant of a GW store. There's so many good indy stores in Columbus. It is at the Polaris mall too. Huh.

AH, I see. It opened this February. GW is indeed expanding more aggressively that I had thought. Well, its pretty darn hard to do better than The Guard Tower. How that store manages to consistently stock the newest releases from the most obscure RPGs remains a business management enigma I will never understand.

The GW job in Dayton would pay more than my current job, but I couldn't move there due to student loans taking up "rent" money :-/


Hey BecomeLegendaryNA, are there plans to open one up in the Cleveland, Akron, or Canton area?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

weeble1000 wrote:
GW is opening a store in Dayton, OH?!? Really...Dayton...No offense to the fine residents of Dayton, and Nise, if you ever somehow read this, Dayton is lovely. But one would think that Columbus or even Cincinnati would be a far better choice for a shop.

Never mind! It seems that there is a GW both in C-bus and the Nati...odd. I wonder when they opened. It has been a while since I moved away from Ohio, but I was never cognizant of a GW store. There's so many good indy stores in Columbus. It is at the Polaris mall too. Huh.

AH, I see. It opened this February. GW is indeed expanding more aggressively that I had thought. Well, its pretty darn hard to do better than The Guard Tower. How that store manages to consistently stock the newest releases from the most obscure RPGs remains a business management enigma I will never understand.

I hear it's Wizardry... I've never been to the Guard Tower, but my buddies in Mansfield, Ohio would drive down to the Guard Tower once a month and pick up what they couldn't get at our flgs.

prplehippo wrote:

Expecting staff to work off the clock without pay is illegal, but as a former 7 year veteran of GW I can say you will be asked to put in more hours with very little notice. Yes you will get paid, but if you "had other plans" like spending time with your family then you'll be labelled unreliable and "not a good fit" with the company.

This reminds me of when I was fencing varsity at the Ohio State. The NCAA only allows you to force student athletes to practice so much, but the team had "optional" conditioning and "optional" evening practice with the club. You were not required to attend, but you weren't getting very far if you didn't. Ho hum. The world turns.

Its retail, its going to be crappy pay for horrid work. But all retail is going to be like that, if your going to end up in a retail job (god help you if you do) at least you'll be selling something you love.

 R3con wrote:
Its retail, its going to be crappy pay for horrid work. But all retail is going to be like that, if your going to end up in a retail job (god help you if you do) at least you'll be selling something you love.

My flgs owner told me to never make my hobby my job, because I'll come to hate my hobby...

 R3con wrote:
Its retail, its going to be crappy pay for horrid work. But all retail is going to be like that, if your going to end up in a retail job (god help you if you do) at least you'll be selling something you love.

And if the current trend is anything like when I worked there, the "life expectancy" for a GW red shirt is about 8 months. I'd hope this changed by now, but there is tremendous pressure to sell that not many can live up to.

I know other companies can be just a callous towards their staff, but remember that it's not "the company" that's doing it. It's other people. The company is just a name on paper.

It's the type of people GW attracts to their current management style you have to watch out for.

Hey BecomeLegendaryNA, are there plans to open one up in the Cleveland, Akron, or Canton area?



As far as i no at the moment no. But Games Workshop are looking to add about 20 stores a year depending on events and issues opening a store can get hung up on something.

I'm also announcing an opening for the Seattle Battle bunker, which is one of our 5 largest stores in the US. You can Apply here. http://workfor.us/914l or http://careers.games-workshop.com/ this positions will close on Dec 28th.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SilverMK2 wrote:

CptJake wrote:
[I honestly cannot think of a good reason to pay anyone for 'projected' anything. You base pay on performance. In a sales job you sell, you get the commission/bonus. In other jobs you prove yourself you get a raise. You don't increase starting pay because they MAY do well in the future.

Ok, you hire someone to do x job where you believe that they will make y sales, why would you pay them the base rate for the whole first year if not to be cheap?

It is like paying the manager of a new factory a lower wage because the plant hasn't actually produced anything yet. You know the capacity of the store and have a reasonable set of projections as to the sales you expect, so why not pay based on what you believe the store will turn over? I can understand paying based on a "worst case projection" and then making up the difference based on actual sales (rather than paying based on something wildly optimistic), but paying the absolute minimum for a store you expect to be doing a good turn over?

You open a store where your research shows your sales volumes will be high enough to justify the costs of the store. You hire employees to work that store so that the projected sales volume can be realized. If they meet or exceed the projections, you reward them. If they fail, you take other actions (which can range from training, a change in business model, firing an employee and other actions).

Of course, but why not set starting pay based on those projections rather than a random arbitrary, low sum?

Ok lets say we pay them based on Projections, What happens if they Fail?


Also it has come up again, just so it is clear I am a Corporate Recruiter for Games Workshop.

Here is the new Virginia Beach store!!

Games Workshop: Hilltop East

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Games-Workshop-Hilltop-East/253049881491009

 Become Legendary NA wrote:
Ok lets say we pay them based on Projections, What happens if they Fail?

One would hope that if you offered better money, you would get better applicants to help ensure this doesn't happen

is what I heard right, that you're opening another in Toronto?

Yes we are in the Burlington area.


The amount of money offered has nothing to do with the quality of a candidate.

 Alfndrate wrote:

 R3con wrote:
Its retail, its going to be crappy pay for horrid work. But all retail is going to be like that, if your going to end up in a retail job (god help you if you do) at least you'll be selling something you love.

My flgs owner told me to never make my hobby my job, because I'll come to hate my hobby...

There's a difference between making your hobby your job and doing what you enjoy. Hell, the first things a career counsel will ask you is what you like doing in your off hours, as being involved with a job pertaining to your interests helps keep someone motivated.

Just selling wargames wouldn't really be making your hobby your job, as you're not being paid to actually do the hobby, just sell it to people.

Something like commission painting would be more akin to making your hobby your job.

 Become Legendary NA wrote:
The amount of money offered has nothing to do with the quality of a candidate.

I hate to contradict someone working for a recruitment company about starting salary/benefis and applicant quality but I really don't want to get into an argument about this, so I think I am going to bob out now. I don't have anything against someone just doing their job (and as I said in the DCM forum would actually be interested in seeing some posts in the P&M forum of your stuff), but really?

 Become Legendary NA wrote:
Yes we are in the Burlington area.


The amount of money offered has nothing to do with the quality of a candidate.

hmm... might have to check it out once it opens

 SilverMK2 wrote:

 Become Legendary NA wrote:
The amount of money offered has nothing to do with the quality of a candidate.

I hate to contradict someone working for a recruitment company about starting salary/benefis and applicant quality but I really don't want to get into an argument about this, so I think I am going to bob out now. I don't have anything against someone just doing their job (and as I said in the DCM forum would actually be interested in seeing some posts in the P&M forum of your stuff), but really?

Some companies have flat pay bands for hire. Especially where commission is concerned.

 Alfndrate wrote:

 R3con wrote:
Its retail, its going to be crappy pay for horrid work. But all retail is going to be like that, if your going to end up in a retail job (god help you if you do) at least you'll be selling something you love.

My flgs owner told me to never make my hobby my job, because I'll come to hate my hobby...

Agree to that:

The Overjustification Effect

The Misconception: There is nothing better in the world than getting paid to do what you love.

The Truth: Getting paid for doing what you already enjoy will sometimes cause your love for the task to wane because you attribute your motivation as coming from the reward, not your internal feelings.

So, apparently the Manager of the Seattle Battle Bunker is headed to Memphis as part of a promotion. Anyone interested in managing a Bunker should submit their resume to the OP.

 SilverMK2 wrote:

 Become Legendary NA wrote:
The amount of money offered has nothing to do with the quality of a candidate.

I hate to contradict someone working for a recruitment company about starting salary/benefis and applicant quality but I really don't want to get into an argument about this, so I think I am going to bob out now. I don't have anything against someone just doing their job (and as I said in the DCM forum would actually be interested in seeing some posts in the P&M forum of your stuff), but really?

It's no issue SilverMK2, for some candidates money is a driver for why they work somewhere and expect to be paid based on a skill set that they have acquired over the years, which may or may not help them in our position. Doesn't mean they are the best fit person for one of our positions. You can read this to get a little bit more information. It really just depends on what you are looking for in a position.

http://careers.games-workshop.com/whats-it-like-to-work-for-games-workshop/

I'll put up some of my models for you and forward you the link, But have several deadlines coming up on the new year and I have been focused on those.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Breotan wrote:
So, apparently the Manager of the Seattle Battle Bunker is headed to Memphis as part of a promotion. Anyone interested in managing a Bunker should submit their resume to the OP.

Yes this is true we are currently looking for Someone that wants to run one of our largest stores in the chain. If your interested in the position you can ally through the Facebook site or by sending your Cover Letter/ Resume to retailcareers@gwplc.com

 Become Legendary NA wrote:

The amount of money offered has nothing to do with the quality of a candidate.

This is the problem. Obviously there are lots of potential candidates that will not even consider the job because of its pay. Presumably, higher quality salesmen will take better paying jobs. Thus, although GW may not adjust their pay to the quality of the candidate, they will likely lose out on high quality candidates because of their view.

This is an instance in which GW just does not get it. They live in a fantasy land that advertising has no importance, and that the location of a business does not matter.

 spaceelf wrote:

 Become Legendary NA wrote:

The amount of money offered has nothing to do with the quality of a candidate.

This is the problem. Obviously there are lots of potential candidates that will not even consider the job because of its pay. Presumably, higher quality salesmen will take better paying jobs. Thus, although GW may not adjust their pay to the quality of the candidate, they will likely lose out on high quality candidates because of their view.

This is an instance in which GW just does not get it. They live in a fantasy land that advertising has no importance, and that the location of a business does not matter.

Pay is for what is being done. You can be a 4 star chef, but if I need someone to flip burgers at my burger restaurant, the fact you can make 4 star dinners doesn't change that I am paying for the position I need filled, not what you are potentially skilled to do.

Now it is assumed if a overly skilled employee does well at the task at hand and justifies his position, then maybe he can be promoted to a level to better use his skills if the positions exist. Also, if there are higher level positions available then they can apply for those with the experience, but you don't just say "wow, you have all these skills and are really great! While I just need someone to do low-level retail management I will pay you a lot more for no reason except your resume even though you are not applying those skills."

I fail to see how GW is different from any other retail company... More pay comes from increase responsibility and proven track record through promotions and bonuses, not simply because someone says they are better and deserve more in an interview. If potential candidates are not considering the job, it is probably because they are 'overqualified' which is the way hiring positions work.

I have interviewed people who would have been great hires, but I needed a JR position not a SR one and the budget didn't allow for a SR person and his salary requirements. Doesn't mean there was anything wrong with the company or the job listing or the candidate.

Again, this is all delusional hatred which makes little to nos ense as this is how pretty much the entire world's hiring practices already work.

 spaceelf wrote:

 Become Legendary NA wrote:

The amount of money offered has nothing to do with the quality of a candidate.

This is the problem. Obviously there are lots of potential candidates that will not even consider the job because of its pay. Presumably, higher quality salesmen will take better paying jobs. Thus, although GW may not adjust their pay to the quality of the candidate, they will likely lose out on high quality candidates because of their view.

This is an instance in which GW just does not get it. They live in a fantasy land that advertising has no importance, and that the location of a business does not matter.

Not really, some candidates ARE overqualified and a company has no financial interest in paying for them. They pay for the skill/experience level needed for a position. They set the wage and bonus/commission structure to attract that level of candidate. They can see the applications they get, track success of previous hires, and adjust their offers as needed.

Additionally, what is being advertised is the starting point of a negotiation between the prospective employee and GW. Each employee will negotiate for the best terms he/she can get and then choose to sign a contract or not based on that. GW may very well be willing to negotiate better terms if a particular candidate seems especially qualified for a particular position, or may not. Again, they set a wage and benefit package to attract a certain level of candidate....

Glad to see you back and still making that offer. Lots of additional information that people might be interested in. Great job, keep it up.

Well it shows how expensive living in america is. $33,000 a year is just over £20,000 over here in the UK. Most people here in the UK would love to earn that much money a year, though on average people earn less than £15k.

22 November 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20442666
The average annual earnings of full-time workers in the UK rose by 1.4% to £26,500 in the year to April 2012

.

Yeah, cost of living is pretty insane, depending on where in this giant country you are of course . It's much higher where I am (in between Washington D.C. and Baltimore) than where my parents are (in a rural part of the south).

$33,000 is good for a retail position but still rather low... none of my good friends actually make that amount. But then again, I'm almost 30 and most have moved beyond the entry level retail positions for their work. We all made way less in college, of course

The recruiter's language is just reflective of GW's policy, and why they don't re-hire employees- those already trained expect to be paid as such, but GW would rather have a high turn-over and do more training, than to compensate trained employees appropriately, feeling that they can get the same work from somebody else for cheaper.

I personally disagree with that philosophy, but they've been consistent with it. It does make the idea that this (or really, any entry level retail position) could lead to a career rather ludicrous, though- I'd be interested in seeing the average but most people only last a year or two, I believe.

It's a decent job in some ways, though- just not a stable career by any stretch.

Must be retail that pays less than that, if I actually got full time I'd be paid just ow 14k a year, at max pay for my band. I.e a grunt.

@RGilbert26

I guess you are a young lad working in retail. That is basically the lowest paid job in the UK (aside from being a young lass in retail) and I assume the US.

http://career-advice.monster.co.uk/salary-benefits/pay-salary-advice/uk-average-salary-graphs/article.aspx

nkelsch wrote:

 spaceelf wrote:

 Become Legendary NA wrote:

The amount of money offered has nothing to do with the quality of a candidate.

This is the problem. Obviously there are lots of potential candidates that will not even consider the job because of its pay. Presumably, higher quality salesmen will take better paying jobs. Thus, although GW may not adjust their pay to the quality of the candidate, they will likely lose out on high quality candidates because of their view.

This is an instance in which GW just does not get it. They live in a fantasy land that advertising has no importance, and that the location of a business does not matter.

Pay is for what is being done. You can be a 4 star chef, but if I need someone to flip burgers at my burger restaurant, the fact you can make 4 star dinners doesn't change that I am paying for the position I need filled, not what you are potentially skilled to do.

Now it is assumed if a overly skilled employee does well at the task at hand and justifies his position, then maybe he can be promoted to a level to better use his skills if the positions exist. Also, if there are higher level positions available then they can apply for those with the experience, but you don't just say "wow, you have all these skills and are really great! While I just need someone to do low-level retail management I will pay you a lot more for no reason except your resume even though you are not applying those skills."

I fail to see how GW is different from any other retail company... More pay comes from increase responsibility and proven track record through promotions and bonuses, not simply because someone says they are better and deserve more in an interview. If potential candidates are not considering the job, it is probably because they are 'overqualified' which is the way hiring positions work.

I have interviewed people who would have been great hires, but I needed a JR position not a SR one and the budget didn't allow for a SR person and his salary requirements. Doesn't mean there was anything wrong with the company or the job listing or the candidate.

Again, this is all delusional hatred which makes little to nos ense as this is how pretty much the entire world's hiring practices already work.

We are just interpreting his statement differently. It can be read to mean that there is no relation between the amount of money that a job pays and the quality of the candidates that the job attracts. Obviously if I was hiring for an aerospace engineer and I was paying minimum wage, the quality of the candidates (if there were any) would not be very high. Thus it is my opinion that the amount of money offered has alot to do with the quality of the candidates that apply for the job.

To comment a bit on RITide's post, I think that GW is making a big mistake with their high turnover. It destroys the community of the store, and leads to loses of sales.

No Games Workshop Manager position starts less than 33,000 a year for Games Workshop NA. I have no information on the UK which is different so you can not use the rate i have provided for any other Country.

So we open a new store that manager makes 33,000 at the end of the first year they make 20% of the growth they achieved. So we opened around 10 stores this year in several instances of the managers making 20K plus in performance related pay. Which would put them over 50K first year. If it is an existing store, you use it's last year of recorded volume.