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Im actually 27 and still stuck in the same job, part-time that i started 9 years ago. But yes im aware it's the lowest paid sector, even for managers. Anyway....

Well it shows how expensive living in america is. $33,000 a year is just over £20,000 over here in the UK. Most people here in the UK would love to earn that much money a year, though on average people earn less than £15k.

It shows little about cost of living really. Using exchange rates to compare salaries/cost of living across countries is not very viable. E.g between early 2008 and early 2009 $33000 went from being about £16000 to about £23000. I think inflation/deflation in either country on that scale would have been major front page news!


The average doesn't really tell us much. It includes all professions and all ages and includes all regions. E.g.the UK average is heavily skewed by London, I can't remember the year, but it wasn't that long ago, the london average was about 50% higher than the average for those areas north of the midlands (the average in my region at the time was about 18000 compared to 27000 in London).

 Become Legendary NA wrote:

No Games Workshop Manager position starts less than 33,000 a year for Games Workshop NA. I have no information on the UK which is different so you can not use the rate i have provided for any other Country.

So we open a new store that manager makes 33,000 at the end of the first year they make 20% of the growth they achieved. So we opened around 10 stores this year in several instances of the managers making 20K plus in performance related pay. Which would put them over 50K first year. If it is an existing store, you use it's last year of recorded volume.

This makes it sound much better than I originally understood. 33k is mediocre, especially in California, but allowing for commission is a bonus.

Now you said that it's 20% of GROWTH, which means that older stores with very stable sales won't see much commission at all. Basically the only store one would want to work at is a new one and then bail when sales peaked and growth slowed down.

A single store can not possible grow it's local business forever. What happens when you already sell to every person possible in the area?

I ran into this when working at the slave pens known as Game Stop. They want you to sell their little subscription to X amount of people per month, but some 95% of business there is repeat customers who either already have said service or have already and constantly turn it down.

Whether GW want to believe it or not(and using my local store as my example), the vast majority of their sales are repeat customers and most of them have rather consistent spending habits. For those customers, you only see growth for the first year from their sales, which are then considered baseline the next year.

Expecting local GW stores to continually be beating their sales every year is unreasonable. Maintaining sales is a realistic goal, perhaps even a little growth, but at what point does the 20% of a whopping 5k/yr growth stop being worth the job compared to other jobs?

 Aerethan wrote:

 Become Legendary NA wrote:
So we open a new store that manager makes 33,000 at the end of the first year they make 20% of the growth they achieved. So we opened around 10 stores this year in several instances of the managers making 20K plus in performance related pay. Which would put them over 50K first year. If it is an existing store, you use it's last year of recorded volume.

This makes it sound much better than I originally understood. 33k is mediocre, especially in California, but allowing for commission is a bonus.

See, I don't read that as you get a bonus at the end of the first year equal to 20% of the growth in sales, but that your pay for the next year is $33k + 20% of growth. I'm happy to be corrected on this; as I say it is just how I read what he has said.

 SilverMK2 wrote:

 Aerethan wrote:

 Become Legendary NA wrote:
So we open a new store that manager makes 33,000 at the end of the first year they make 20% of the growth they achieved. So we opened around 10 stores this year in several instances of the managers making 20K plus in performance related pay. Which would put them over 50K first year. If it is an existing store, you use it's last year of recorded volume.

This makes it sound much better than I originally understood. 33k is mediocre, especially in California, but allowing for commission is a bonus.

See, I don't read that as you get a bonus at the end of the first year equal to 20% of the growth in sales, but that your pay for the next year is $33k + 20% of growth. I'm happy to be corrected on this; as I say it is just how I read what he has said.

The GW rep speaks of 20k in performance related pay in the first year. I think the calculation has something to do with profit rather than growth in such an instance.

Any monetary incentives should be outlined up front as they dramatically impact the potential candidates. If you say 33k per year then you have crowd X, and are likely missing out on higher end candidates who just ignore jobs at that pay.

Now if you say 33k base + X% profit/growth etc then you open the job to those who know they can make more doing it.

The worst thing ever is to get a job in retail, only to find out it's actually a sales job, and even worse when you find out that there is no incentive to sell hard other than just not losing your job. That's how Game Stop is. It isn't retail, it's sales, and if you don't meet the goals you get canned, if you meet the goals your reward is not getting canned.

I hope you all had a Merry Christmas, Just a reminder that there is only three days left to apply for the Seattle battle bunker Store Manager Position. One of the top 5 stores in the US.

A Merry Christmas to you as well.

As you can see from my previous comments, I am no great supporter of GW. However, their bunkers are their best stores. They have multiple staff members, so that you will have some weekends off. Also, if you are sick you will not have to choose between taking time off and losing sales by closing the store. It is certainly one of the best retail positions in the company.

BLNA,

Could you give some insight as to why the single man stores are the current trend for GW's retail shops?

Alf, he's a recruiter. Policy decisions happen way above his pay grade. Other than the GW line we've already heard, he's not likely to be able (or allowed) to provide you with any insights.

 Breotan wrote:
Alf, he's a recruiter. Policy decisions happen way above his pay grade. Other than the GW line we've already heard, he's not likely to be able (or allowed) to provide you with any insights.

I know, but wishful thinking ya know?

 Aerethan wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Well, they are one person stores. So they won't be managing anybody but themselves.

They'll be managing the 12 year olds that GW is trying to recruit into the HHHobby. That alone is worth $20/hr.

THIS. I'm still in retail, and the 9$/hr I get paid is nowhere near enough for the idiot and extremely rude customers I have to deal with. I doubt that one-man stores have less stress or fewer jerk customers.

I can can venture into The One man concept.

Games Workshop has grown and changed through time as an employer. It has changed the requirements it had placed on staff and how we interacted with customers over time. The problem with a lot of it is there is a a lot of History of those interactions and the road is littered with employees who left for some reason or another. Some of this was right and some of it was wrong as any employer will face with 35 years of being in business. The thing to remember when former employees chime in is what time frame they worked for Games Workshop. anything sub 2009 isn't current. There is no policy about not hiring former employees.

What the one Person stores are is a change in how Games Workshop is allocating it's resources. It used to be that Store managers spent a large part of their time training staff. Most stores had 3 to 5 employees. The training manuals were 3 to 4 inch binders for each employee. On top of that we had Regional managers, District managers and GW carpet bombing areas with stores like LA, Seattle, and Chicago.

The One person model allows GW to have one employee, with single market stores, So the three new stores that are listed in the first post are not competing against other GW stores. Our training has been reduced to 50 pages. Although learning the Hobby is most likely a life time experience, We don't require it, but people fail if they feel no attachment to the product.. We no longer have District/Area Managers, we do have a few Regional Managers who fill a coach/ mentor type role, help you set goals for your business. With the One person concept we have managers who are running their businesses and those stores are doing far better with one employee than they ever did with 3 - 5.

Business wise it allows the manager to focus on the customer interaction instead of training staff. It reduces cost while allowing us to be the most effective with the locations we have.

I was part of Game Workshop in the former model and the Current one. I can say that they are very different from one another.

Thanks again for your patience and highlighting some issues.

I guess the main critic coming from us customers derives in the recent changes towards customer policy in regards to how GW handles their stores...I can hardly call the local GWs I attend to "hobby centers" anymore.

Given your experience, you know of how GW stores used to look like: several gaming tables, ready to be played by customers. Nowadays, with the rise of 1-man stores, this has changed. Until recent days, we still had gaming tables, but the one person handling the store certainly could not just drop in and have a game as he had other customers to please. That's sad, but fully undnerstandable. The thing is that, at least in the local GWs I go to, even the gaming tables have now been replaced by demo tables. GW cut support for many events and tournaments had increases entry fees along with there being fewer overall.

It's this change that angers people, fellow GW customers, all over the globe. I guess most of us could get along with some price hikes (except those really nasty and unfair ones like LotR with more than +150% price rises!), but the image we get is GW withdrawing from a hobby supplyer and going straight into a retail-only business.

That's the fatal flaw in my eyes though - if GW stores are meant to be retail only, why would we buy there instead of buying online where each customer easily gets 15-20% off the retail price?

When I started GW back in the days (like...uh...10 years ago?), it really felt like a hobby ran by a hobby supplyer. Nowadays, it feels like a normal company, showing us veterans the cold shoulder. And that might be a wrong decision in the long run.

 Become Legendary NA wrote:
I can can venture into The One man concept.

Games Workshop has grown and changed through time as an employer. It has changed the requirements it had placed on staff and how we interacted with customers over time. The problem with a lot of it is there is a a lot of History of those interactions and the road is littered with employees who left for some reason or another. Some of this was right and some of it was wrong as any employer will face with 35 years of being in business. The thing to remember when former employees chime in is what time frame they worked for Games Workshop. anything sub 2009 isn't current. There is no policy about not hiring former employees.

What the one Person stores are is a change in how Games Workshop is allocating it's resources. It used to be that Store managers spent a large part of their time training staff. Most stores had 3 to 5 employees. The training manuals were 3 to 4 inch binders for each employee. On top of that we had Regional managers, District managers and GW carpet bombing areas with stores like LA, Seattle, and Chicago.

The One person model allows GW to have one employee, with single market stores, So the three new stores that are listed in the first post are not competing against other GW stores. Our training has been reduced to 50 pages. Although learning the Hobby is most likely a life time experience, We don't require it, but people fail if they feel no attachment to the product.. We no longer have District/Area Managers, we do have a few Regional Managers who fill a coach/ mentor type role, help you set goals for your business. With the One person concept we have managers who are running their businesses and those stores are doing far better with one employee than they ever did with 3 - 5.

Business wise it allows the manager to focus on the customer interaction instead of training staff. It reduces cost while allowing us to be the most effective with the locations we have.

I was part of Game Workshop in the former model and the Current one. I can say that they are very different from one another.

It's interesting to get this perspective on GW, not something we usually see, thanks for sharing!

I do find it somewhat funny that BLNA has the 'H' in History and Hobby capitalized

I'd love to be an accountant for GW.

Hopefully a position will be available once I get enough experience under my belt.

 Become Legendary NA wrote:
I can can venture into The One man concept.

Games Workshop has grown and changed through time as an employer. It has changed the requirements it had placed on staff and how we interacted with customers over time. The problem with a lot of it is there is a a lot of History of those interactions and the road is littered with employees who left for some reason or another. Some of this was right and some of it was wrong as any employer will face with 35 years of being in business. The thing to remember when former employees chime in is what time frame they worked for Games Workshop. anything sub 2009 isn't current. There is no policy about not hiring former employees.

What the one Person stores are is a change in how Games Workshop is allocating it's resources. It used to be that Store managers spent a large part of their time training staff. Most stores had 3 to 5 employees. The training manuals were 3 to 4 inch binders for each employee. On top of that we had Regional managers, District managers and GW carpet bombing areas with stores like LA, Seattle, and Chicago.

The One person model allows GW to have one employee, with single market stores, So the three new stores that are listed in the first post are not competing against other GW stores. Our training has been reduced to 50 pages. Although learning the Hobby is most likely a life time experience, We don't require it, but people fail if they feel no attachment to the product.. We no longer have District/Area Managers, we do have a few Regional Managers who fill a coach/ mentor type role, help you set goals for your business. With the One person concept we have managers who are running their businesses and those stores are doing far better with one employee than they ever did with 3 - 5.

Business wise it allows the manager to focus on the customer interaction instead of training staff. It reduces cost while allowing us to be the most effective with the locations we have.

I was part of Game Workshop in the former model and the Current one. I can say that they are very different from one another.

Thank you for providing thoughtful, well-written information on the company. It is very good to know.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Thanks again for your patience and highlighting some issues.

I guess the main critic coming from us customers derives in the recent changes towards customer policy in regards to how GW handles their stores...I can hardly call the local GWs I attend to "hobby centers" anymore.

Given your experience, you know of how GW stores used to look like: several gaming tables, ready to be played by customers. Nowadays, with the rise of 1-man stores, this has changed. Until recent days, we still had gaming tables, but the one person handling the store certainly could not just drop in and have a game as he had other customers to please. That's sad, but fully undnerstandable. The thing is that, at least in the local GWs I go to, even the gaming tables have now been replaced by demo tables. GW cut support for many events and tournaments had increases entry fees along with there being fewer overall.

It's this change that angers people, fellow GW customers, all over the globe. I guess most of us could get along with some price hikes (except those really nasty and unfair ones like LotR with more than +150% price rises!), but the image we get is GW withdrawing from a hobby supplyer and going straight into a retail-only business.

That's the fatal flaw in my eyes though - if GW stores are meant to be retail only, why would we buy there instead of buying online where each customer easily gets 15-20% off the retail price?

When I started GW back in the days (like...uh...10 years ago?), it really felt like a hobby ran by a hobby supplyer. Nowadays, it feels like a normal company, showing us veterans the cold shoulder. And that might be a wrong decision in the long run.

There is a lot here that I can't respond to some of it is History of what the Hobby was to us as an individual. I honestly don't want to comment on that, because it is special to each individual and I can't/don't want impact that. I'm not going to go into pricing mainly because I disagree and a discussion on it will shoot my thread in the head.

Here is the thing if there is demand for events and tournaments what is stopping you from organizing it yourself. People flock to leadership. Go to a local independent and start working with them bring them business. Grow your gaming group to a size where it makes sense for that Independent to expand their space. Start working with other gaming groups. Build your base and run those things you love to do. At the end of the day you don't need Games Workshop to do that for you. It just takes value based leadership and organization.

 Become Legendary NA wrote:
There is a lot here that I can't respond to some of it is History of what the Hobby was to us as an individual.

"the Hobby"...

Okay, sorry, just had to point that out...

Although I do love your santa hat avatar!

I want to defend BLNA's last statement. I live in Middle TN, about three hours away from the bunker. I work 5 minutes from a GW. I frequent the GW to get direct order stuff, or things that my local shop doesn't stock regularly.

However, besides my personal enjoyment from playings, modeling, painting, hobbying, etc, I get as much out of my local community of gamers that frequent the FLGS and the events ran there and by those that are part of our community.

For the record, this is no slouchy community either. ATC, Battle For Stones River, Battle For Supremacy, even the Kalm before the WAAAAG! are all events that are either sponsored, organized or attended by many, many members of the group. These events are the big ones but the same group allies with the FLGS for leagues and monthly tourneys that honestly are just as fun.

These events are run, not for retail sales(there is some aspect of that but selling isn't the focus), but for community, fellowship, fun, hobby, etc. I use the local GW, run by a great guy, as a convenience stop. I have played there and it was fine, had a blast stomping my buddy, but it's not a community store. It's a place that will ALWAYS have what you need or can get in a short time and is a place you can learn or bring folks to learn what the products are all about.

Honestly, I think that the local club or FLGS scene is the most important one in my region and while it feels like we are abandoned by GW when the stop hosting events, really, this allows other folks to rise up and run them like they want, without corporate objectives. It's a liberating thing we should be grateful for.

Hope that makes sense.

MM

Not only does GW stores no longer being the "place to play" allow FLGS to flourish... they also allow other manufacturer's games to be played at said FLGS

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
Outside of that you might want to review the basic pay rate based on the metro's you are hiring for. I can't speak for Ohio or Toronto but the base pay rate for San Diego is not a livable work wage outside of young adults still living at home.

He did say that the more the store sells, the more money you make, but that still seems a little low to start. As a comparison, the starting wage level for a clerical job in the federal government is usually a GS5, which would be $34067 in San Diego.

Fresh out of college and in my first 9-5 office job has me pulling that amount, after taxes. At 22. I can't imagine living in a city with those wages. I hope they're aiming these jobs at college kids with Associates in General Studies

Well good luck to them, I hope the benefits/insurance helps out their salaries if they have families.

If your expecting to make tons of coin...retail (whether at GW or ANY company) likely isnt the way to go....

 ironicsilence wrote:
If your expecting to make tons of coin...retail (whether at GW or ANY company) likely isnt the way to go....

Food services, either.

Still as far as temporary employment (six months to a year) after/before college or after military service, etc. it can be a good deal.

Question about the 1 person store idea.. just been wondering, what happens if that 1 and only employee is sick and can't come to work? or wants a vacation? Does a regional manager take over or does the store just close till he comes back?

They do have "on call" employees who only work those days where full timers called in sick or had PTO.

Yes, there are advantages and disadvantages that can be made. But my main concern with 1 person stores? By far the biggest (and the reason I would never work there) is that the staff member is not 'protected'. Having another member of staff in the store at the same time (something that always used to be the case.. many moons ago the small store I worked in used to have 2 staff members, a manager and often a part timer on weekends at the same time!) protects the members of staff there.

I will be specific: Imagine the scenario that a child in the store makes an 'accusation' of an unsavoury nature against the member of staff. Regardless of that accusation being not true, the implication will be there are the staff member has no-one of adult age to support his side of the story. The consequences for that worker could be terrible, and go beyond his career even working at that store, potentially destroying his life.

Of course the flip-side of this is that some form of assault does happen on a child in the store, again while there is only the one adult working there. I don't think I need to go into details into why that, if something like that were to happen (or actually, even a story to come out of it happening) it could do far more damage to GW's financial situation than any amount of money they might have saved from cutting back on staff.

There is a very real reason why schools, kindergartens and care centres have very strict policies in place determining children being left under stewardship of adults, and specifically children not being left with a single adult for an extended period of time, in order to prevent the kind of problems above happening. GW completing ignoring those factors, like always just to help that bottom line, is I think an immensely ill-advised and potentially fatal decision considering what they could stand to lose.

 Pacific wrote:

There is a very real reason why schools, kindergartens and care centres have very strict policies in place determining children being left under stewardship of adults, and specifically children not being left with a single adult for an extended period of time, in order to prevent the kind of problems above happening. GW completing ignoring those factors, like always just to help that bottom line, is I think an immensely ill-advised and potentially fatal decision considering what they could stand to lose.

The GW manager should simply not allow unsupervised children in his store alone without an adult. Pretty easy to tell unsupervised children to leave and to tell parents who are walking out 'what are you doing about your children?'

No other company out there allows it. And dozens of other retail companies have a single employee working so this idea that GW is the only retail company with lone cashiers and is responsible for child supervision the same way a schoolteacher is isn't reality.

Children shouldn't be left alone at a GW store, or any store... and any unsupervised child needs to be handed over to the police for detainment.

Anyone anywhere can accuse anyone of rape or assault with zero claims so no ADULT should ever be alone in public without someone with them to bear witness. I can tell you multiple times I have been in stores where there was only one employee working. I feel like a good policy and security footage is all a company needs to do to protect themselves from lying children and negligent parents, not double the size of their work force and change industries to be officially child-care licensed and approved as part of their business model.

Stores I have been in recently with a single employee and no one else working the store:
Coffee Shop
Cupcake Boutique
Beer and Wine
Deli
Comic book store
FLGS
7-11
Gas Station
Card/gift store
Redskins store
UPS store

Over half of those are places Children would go unsupervised and have shifts or whole days when there is a single staff member who is at risk of 'accusations' from any number of random people... and a good store policy is to throw them out and call the police if they are loitering long enough to put anyone at risk and be backed up by security cameras.

 Necros wrote:
Question about the 1 person store idea.. just been wondering, what happens if that 1 and only employee is sick and can't come to work? or wants a vacation? Does a regional manager take over or does the store just close till he comes back?

In most instances the store closes, as subs are hard to come by even in my region which has tons of GW stores. Given that this means the earnings will take a hit, lots of GW managers will come in even when they are deathly ill.