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Ok, Jes is showing off old sketches... Great. I've got that book and the old IG sketches still hold up well.

The following is all IMHO.
Templars.... long post about combining all non-codex followers into 1 book self-deleted cause it aint on topic...

It's pretty ridiculous people think Tau/Necron codex's are the same as 5 different Space Marine ones that all use the same weapons/vehicles/infantry besides minor visual and special rules differences.

 Harriticus wrote:
It's pretty ridiculous people think Tau/Necron codex's are the same as 5 different Space Marine ones that all use the same weapons/vehicles/infantry besides minor visual and special rules differences.

The same way that it's ridiculous that people think people deserve to have their Codex dropped because they use the same models as another army.

 Harriticus wrote:
It's pretty ridiculous people think Tau/Necron codex's are the same as 5 different Space Marine ones that all use the same weapons/vehicles/infantry besides minor visual and special rules differences.

Quite the opposite. I would wager that several of those 5 Space Marine codexes have a far larger player and fan base than Tau and Necrons taken together.

To sum up this news&rumours:
1.) IG Codex is not ready.
2.) Jes Goodwin made IG sketches 19 years ago.
3.) A redshirt is waiting for an IG release.

I don't think that we will see an IG release next year.

Kroothawk delivers!

Yeah, I didn't even list this in the accuracy thread it was so vague.

Anybody remember that leaked "release list" from a while back? Remember how they had an IG unit listed as "Iron Cloak veterans"? This is either just a proper "veteran squad box" (one can only hope for more than one of each special weapon) or, more likely, it's a white dwarf update with a new troop/elite slot for IG which will probably not be very good.

However, this does seem kind of wish listy, hasn't the rumor that those design sketches were going to be new IG kits been around for years?

And as for the "it's way too early to update them", GW has done stuff like this before. Who knows, maybe they'll actually balance the codex out a bit, or at least fix the vendetta a bit.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
The same way that it's ridiculous that people think people deserve to have their Codex dropped because they use the same models as another army.

Black Templars exist as a separate Codex because when Codex Armageddon came out they had a broken sub-list. This made them popular, and GW decided to capitalise on that by making them a full release Codex. The Codex wasn't as popular as the Armageddon list because it wasn't as powerful, and now here we are 2 editions later and they've yet to see an update. Is it any wonder there's talk of rolling them back into regular Marines?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:
It's pretty ridiculous people think Tau/Necron codex's are the same as 5 different Space Marine ones that all use the same weapons/vehicles/infantry besides minor visual and special rules differences.

The same way that it's ridiculous that people think people deserve to have their Codex dropped because they use the same models as another army.

Right, if you feel your Templar army is neglected use the 5th ed SM codex. It's more or less the exact same thing beyond some minute differences. This is not true with non-SM factions.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Any chance to re-balance those Vendetta would be good enough for me to accept another book from them.

I think they stay on the base quite well tbh

So really nothing. Not even really a rumor. Just some old drawings from 10 years ago?

Guard is the most stable, balanced codex in the game, and it has been for a while. Why does it need to be changed? Just give us veterans and a hydra, and a griffon, and be done with it.

 Captain Fantastic wrote:
Guard is the most stable, balanced codex in the game, and it has been for a while.

Because, even if these rumours meant anything, none of those reasons are reasons not to redo something. Releasing new models is the only factor that comes into play. The rules service them, and come after.

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:
IG is the last army that needs an update alongside any Space Marine faction. GW being GW, the opposite of what they should do is more or less their standard policy by this point.

Who has the oldest Codex in the game? I'll give you a hint: it's not a Xenos book.

Just in case he doesn't get it, I'll give him another hint: It's a book that should have never seen print and it would be good if they never got another update.

The same thing that could be said of Tau and Necrons then? After all, they were pulled out of nowhere and weren't part of the original game, so they clearly don't deserve their own books. Tau can just play counts-as Eldar or Imperial Guard anyway.

No, because they both have different styles of operation compared to the Imperial Guard and they have different stats so it wouldn't be entirely the same thing. The army that you're implying deserves a book has nothing to set it apart except for "hurr we put scouts in with our regular doodz". Nice try though. Also your army wasn't part of the "original game" either so that's a further strike.

Ooooo, can I make pointless arguments too? They shouldn't have updated or ever made Blood Angels cuz they're the same as SM in every way except they like blood! Dark Angels might as well be rolled into the main book cuz only difference is Belial and Sammael.

Now, grown up moment: These books have followings, same as Black Templars. You don't like it? Who cares. Black Templars play more differently from all other Power Armored codexes, except for maybe Space Wolves. They won't allow you to play with psyker allies (except GK), the Neophytes and Initiates are a mixed unit, they allow you to horde up, and when they get shot, they bum-rush the opposition instead of being able to make tactical retreats. Oh, and despite all chapters actually having their own EC, only the BT have him in their book. And when he came out, he was a true badass. Are these enough differences from the main book right now? No. But they were at the time, and I'm sure an update will give them more differences. So quit trolling.

You know what else had followings? Lost and the Damned, Eldar Craftworlds, Squats, the Catachans. But none of them are around anymore in their current incarnation. And they were all way different. So the "grown up" thing to do would be to accept it and move on.

Also the bolded is you agreeing with me.

>Implying that I'm trolling (which is against the rules here)
>Actually agrees with me several times in his post

If it doesn't count against Tau and Necrons, why does it count against Templars? Because it's cool to hate MEQ Codices? Wouldn't a much better solution be to differentiate the Black Templars Codex so that it isn't "the same as every other Marine Codex"?

Because 1. they're entirely different races with entirely different weaponry (pulse weapons aren't the same, gauss isn't even close to a lasgun) and you're just grasping at straws. And 2., the best solution would be to put them in a combined book that has all the "deviant" chapters of the Space Marines. Alternatively, have Forgeworld start producing Black Templar stuff. They do a good job with the Elysians and DKoK.

Did you just try to green-text on DakkaDakka?

orkybenji wrote:

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:
IG is the last army that needs an update alongside any Space Marine faction. GW being GW, the opposite of what they should do is more or less their standard policy by this point.

Who has the oldest Codex in the game? I'll give you a hint: it's not a Xenos book.

Just in case he doesn't get it, I'll give him another hint: It's a book that should have never seen print and it would be good if they never got another update.

The same thing that could be said of Tau and Necrons then? After all, they were pulled out of nowhere and weren't part of the original game, so they clearly don't deserve their own books. Tau can just play counts-as Eldar or Imperial Guard anyway.

No, because they both have different styles of operation compared to the Imperial Guard and they have different stats so it wouldn't be entirely the same thing. The army that you're implying deserves a book has nothing to set it apart except for "hurr we put scouts in with our regular doodz". Nice try though. Also your army wasn't part of the "original game" either so that's a further strike.

Ooooo, can I make pointless arguments too? They shouldn't have updated or ever made Blood Angels cuz they're the same as SM in every way except they like blood! Dark Angels might as well be rolled into the main book cuz only difference is Belial and Sammael.

Now, grown up moment: These books have followings, same as Black Templars. You don't like it? Who cares. Black Templars play more differently from all other Power Armored codexes, except for maybe Space Wolves. They won't allow you to play with psyker allies (except GK), the Neophytes and Initiates are a mixed unit, they allow you to horde up, and when they get shot, they bum-rush the opposition instead of being able to make tactical retreats. Oh, and despite all chapters actually having their own EC, only the BT have him in their book. And when he came out, he was a true badass. Are these enough differences from the main book right now? No. But they were at the time, and I'm sure an update will give them more differences. So quit trolling.

You know what else had followings? Lost and the Damned, Eldar Craftworlds, Squats, the Catachans. But none of them are around anymore in their current incarnation. And they were all way different. So the "grown up" thing to do would be to accept it and move on.

Also the bolded is you agreeing with me.

>Implying that I'm trolling (which is against the rules here)
>Actually agrees with me several times in his post

If it doesn't count against Tau and Necrons, why does it count against Templars? Because it's cool to hate MEQ Codices? Wouldn't a much better solution be to differentiate the Black Templars Codex so that it isn't "the same as every other Marine Codex"?

Because 1. they're entirely different races with entirely different weaponry (pulse weapons aren't the same, gauss isn't even close to a lasgun) and you're just grasping at straws. And 2., the best solution would be to put them in a combined book that has all the "deviant" chapters of the Space Marines. Alternatively, have Forgeworld start producing Black Templar stuff. They do a good job with the Elysians and DKoK.

Did you just try to green-text on DakkaDakka?

Yes... yes he did. I was quite confused.

If they did make a new IG kit for vets, it would probably be similar to the cadian box set. Although a box of greatcoat dudes would be awesome...

 Rainbow Dash wrote:
I`d like to see the armoured company make a return

Take a look at the most recent IA book from FW, there's a new updated one in there.

To be honest What I would most like to see for IG is the option to give Sgts lasguns again. A bit more distinction between regiments would be nice as well.

Individual SM chapters really don't need their own codex, aside from real non codex chapters like SWs. The reason why things like BTs get their own codex is becuase GW loves its marines and they sell well.
They don't deserve it but GW doesn't work on fairness. I have at least half a dozen armies for games that don't even exist anymore and 2 armies for a race that was killed off in a throwaway comment by Andy Chambers.

 Harriticus wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:
It's pretty ridiculous people think Tau/Necron codex's are the same as 5 different Space Marine ones that all use the same weapons/vehicles/infantry besides minor visual and special rules differences.

The same way that it's ridiculous that people think people deserve to have their Codex dropped because they use the same models as another army.

Right, if you feel your Templar army is neglected use the 5th ed SM codex. It's more or less the exact same thing beyond some minute differences. This is not true with non-SM factions.

Great idea! I'll have my BP/CCW Initiates go in... oh, wait. At least suggest Blood Angels or Space Wolves where, you know, the stuff has the same wargear.

Palindrome wrote:
To be honest What I would most like to see for IG is the option to give Sgts lasguns again. A bit more distinction between regiments would be nice as well.

Individual SM chapters really don't need their own codex, aside from real non codex chapters like SWs. The reason why things like BTs get their own codex is becuase GW loves its marines and they sell well.
They don't deserve it but GW doesn't work on fairness. I have at least half a dozen armies for games that don't even exist anymore and 2 armies for a race that was killed off in a throwaway comment by Andy Chambers.

How is Black Templars not a "real non codex chapter"? This argument gets thrown around a lot as though it's self-evident, but I've never understood it. Could you explain it (and this isn't supposed to be snark BTW, I'm genuinely curious)?

And why do Marine Chapters not "deserve" to have Codices? Because GW made a dumb move and removed diversity in other armies? Shouldn't the solution be MORE diversity, rather than just dropping the Codex alltogether?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

How is Black Templars not a "real non codex chapter"? This argument gets thrown around a lot as though it's self-evident, but I've never understood it. Could you explain it (and this isn't supposed to be snark BTW, I'm genuinely curious)?
And why do Marine Chapters not "deserve" to have Codices? Because GW made a dumb move and removed diversity in other armies? Shouldn't the solution be MORE diversity, rather than just dropping the Codex alltogether?

Black Templars could be easily represented via the Space Marine codex with the exception of Neophytes, everything else is basically the same. A unified Space Marine codex with a simple trait system would cover the majority of all Space Marine Chapters to a reasonable degree. SW have such a different structure that they will be hard to make fit although a WD mini-dex could easily accomodate them.

There are far more variety within IG regiments than Space Marine chapters and yet they are all encompassed (rather badly IMO) by a single Codex. Each regiment deserves its own codex but that is impossible and its a similar story with Marine Chapters.

There are a finite number of Codexes that 40K's development cycle can support and rather than introducing more genuinely different races or unusual human factions (Ad Mech) GW instead takes the easy route and focuses on SM chapters. The end result is that 40K is a game that revolves around marines with a smattering of Xenos thrown in.

TLR Marines sell so GW focuses on them to the detriment of its own games development.

Why aren't these posts about "x does not deserve y" auto-deleted?
They never contribute to anything...IMO.



On "topic":

I'd welcome missing kits, so a wave release of models would be ok, don't see a codex on the horizon just because old artwork is pulled forth.

Palindrome wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

How is Black Templars not a "real non codex chapter"? This argument gets thrown around a lot as though it's self-evident, but I've never understood it. Could you explain it (and this isn't supposed to be snark BTW, I'm genuinely curious)?
And why do Marine Chapters not "deserve" to have Codices? Because GW made a dumb move and removed diversity in other armies? Shouldn't the solution be MORE diversity, rather than just dropping the Codex alltogether?

Black Templars could be easily represented via the Space Marine codex with the exception of Neophytes, everything else is basically the same. A unified Space Marine codex with a simple trait system would cover the majority of all Space Marine Chapters to a reasonable degree. SW have such a different structure that they will be hard to make fit although a WD mini-dex could easily accomodate them.

How are Space Wolves so massively different that they could't be folded into a theoretical Codex: Astartes (hey, that's a pretty silly pun, I might actually support it! )?

And, again, shouldn't the answer be MORE diversity, not folding everything into one book? That way you don't have to get the feeling that you're fighting the same army with a different colour scheme all the time while no one has to have his or her Codex pulled. Best of both worlds?

The strongest argument that I feel could be made about watering down diversity is the codex release schedule. A Black Templar book would mean maybe 3-4 more months that they'd have to wait for their new book to come out.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

And, again, shouldn't the answer be MORE diversity, not folding everything into one book?

I think you missed out the last paragraph of my post. In fact did you even read it at all?

I wouldnt be surprised if we saw a new and even heavier tank making it into the IG codex this time around. Something that makes the good old Leman Russ a less ideal choice.
Not Baneblade sized but somewhere inbetween, justifying the sale of multiple kits for a decent sized force.

Plastic Ogryns are a given aswell...

Palindrome wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

And, again, shouldn't the answer be MORE diversity, not folding everything into one book?

I think you missed out the last paragraph of my post. In fact did you even read it at all?

I did, I just refused to believe that your solution would be "kick these guys out so that the guys I prefer get more attention", because that'd be silly.

 notprop wrote:

 Rainbow Dash wrote:
I`d like to see the armoured company make a return

Take a look at the most recent IA book from FW, there's a new updated one in there.

Maybe a sign that GW will release a plastic Griffon? Since you can take them 5 as a battery.
Or FW has back stock to sell.

I'd love to see Rough Riders make a return.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

I did.

Well you clearly didn't understand what i was saying then.

 BrookM wrote:
I'd love to see Rough Riders make a return.

*Looks in Codex*

When did they leave?

 Dysartes wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
I'd love to see Rough Riders make a return.

*Looks in Codex*

When did they leave?

Minis.