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Just thought I'd post up about an incident on the weekend and get some wider insight on it, as it riled me up a little, but now I've had time to think about it I'm not entirely sure what I should do about it?

So at the weekend I went into a hobby store to pick up some Vampire Counts Ghouls to use as bitz for a project. It wasn't my usual hobby store, but I'd been there a few times, andI got talking to a new staffer (I assume, I'd never seen him before), and naturally, the topic of conversation got onto the Hobbit. Which I thought, sure, okay, new "big thing", and it's your job to sell it. So I went ahead and told him I bought Escape From Goblin Town and split it with a friend so that I could use the Goblin bodies as conversion fodder, and that I planned to turn them into Tzeentch Horrors using head and armswaps. His reaction to this, is what really got me wound up, as he basically told me that the conversions would look gak (more colourful language was used, but this is a family forum...), and that the LOTR/Hobbit miniatures couldn't be used in WH40k because of licencing laws, and that the current Tzeentch Horror miniatures "are terrible, but they'll probably still look better than your crappy conversions".

Safe to say, I left the store without buying the minis, at this point I was suitably offended at the fact that he'd tried to tell me how to use the miniatures I'd bought, and at the assumptions he'd made about my painting/modelling skills. What would everyone else have done? Do I report him to his manager? I feel it's likely that an attitude like this would drive more people away from the store.

Do I have a right to be annoyed, or am I just being an ass?

Pretty dumb of him but I wouldn't bother getting offended at complete stupidity. Just don't go back.

No, that should be reported to his manager. That is ridiculous. AN employee should never treat ANY customer like that unless they are personal friends and they know your skills.

That employee lost his business money by giving a baseless opinion with foul language to a customer that didn't know him. I'd say he needs fired.

If that were a conversation with another hobbyist, I'd say it can't be helped, but since he was an employee on the clock I'd consider filing a complaint. It shouldn't be done with a negative tone but I mean, if he was as rude and cantankerous as you say, then he isn't suited for customer service work and you'd be helping the FLGS out by expressing your opinion. Chances are they might replace him with a lady or gentleman with a kinder disposition. That's just my two cents.

Thats a toughie. I myself arnt very good it situations like that, but yeah informing higher management might do something.

If GW didnt make shrines to money and stopped getting high of an increasingly disappointed fanbase, I'd suggest telling them that someone representing them is throwing cocked dice.

But theyd also point out they make them money, so... But definately tell a manager, in writing.

There are two different issues you describe:

*The concept that you can't mix models from LotR with other GW properties
*He flat out poo-pooed on your conversion ideas

The first one, I am assuming this was a GW store and he is somewhat correct. There is a big 'thing' about New Line not wanting LotR models used in Warhammer. So in GW events, GW stores, they will treat 40k/Fantasy conversions based upon LotR models the same way they do 3rd party models. GW is unable to take photos of LotR conversions with Warhammer parts and it is basically showing up at their event and now they have to censor every image of your models. I can't blame GW that much as this is the licence holder's decrees. Don't like it? Don't go to GW.

I think it is reasonable to 'warn' customers that they don't advise conversions which may not be welcome at GW events.

I think the part that got you mad is his crapping on your ideas and your implied skills. That is probably the rude part.

I am not sure why people always feel the need to tear people up and try to get them fired. At some point, voting with your wallet and feet is heard louder than customers who still give you their money but complain while they do it. People also are human and have bad days, and unless he really wronged you or did something immoral, I would let it go and just avoid shopping there.

Pretty much all of the opinions expressed here, are thoughts I've had myself. I should probably point out though, that this wasn't a GW store, it was a small local gaming store. And apart from the manager and his wife, I've never seen anyone other than this guy working there.

I would have sold you a G.I. Joe if you thought it would compliment your 40k game or any game for that matter. Sounds like he's just a jerk. However, maybe your delivery of the Hobbit miniatures being conversion fodder hurt HIS feelings.

 Byte wrote:
I would have sold you a G.I. Joe if you thought it would compliment your 40k game or any game for that matter. Sounds like he's just a jerk. However, maybe your delivery of the Hobbit miniatures being conversion fodder hurt HIS feelings.

How? Surely what I do with my purchases should be up to me?

 WaaaaghLord wrote:

 Byte wrote:
I would have sold you a G.I. Joe if you thought it would compliment your 40k game or any game for that matter. Sounds like he's just a jerk. However, maybe your delivery of the Hobbit miniatures being conversion fodder hurt HIS feelings.

How? Surely what I do with my purchases should be up to me?

Well, if you wanted to use YOUR models in HIS event, and he was bound by the rules of it being a GW event, then it does matter what you do with your models. If you came in and said you wanted to buy a bunch of GW models to convert into Warjack stand-ins and then use them in PP events at the store, then I feel a good staff member should warn you about PP events wanting PP models so you know your conversions may not be cool in a PP sponsored event at the store.

But considering I can't see why anyone outside a GW store or event would care about Licencing issues. I am not even sure why that would come up from an indy FLGS staff member.

Warning you it wouldn't be 'GW legal' makes sense.
Saying it would look like gak is stepping way over the line and yes you do have a right to be annoyed.

 WaaaaghLord wrote:
and that the LOTR/Hobbit miniatures couldn't be used in WH40k because of licencing laws

Tell him to call New Line and tell them you're doing it.

That legal comment don't know about that, but that he talks down on your skills and ideas, shows me that has no sales skills, i would have commended on your idea why stop there buy another box for more conversions! (even if your skills sux )

I would have at least have talked to the manager about his people skills.

I'm a bit more direct when it comes to things like this. I'd have raised my order to two boxes and then invited him to shove them both up his arse.

But that's me..

Lesson learned for you. When you walk into a store that is known for going the big up sell, it's best to just play your cards close to your chest. "What are you working on?" is the classic line. I'm guessing things went downhill from there.

You could follow the advice given so far. Or you could just not blow everything out of proportion and simply take your business elsewhere. Whatever you want to do.

 WaaaaghLord wrote:
Just thought I'd post up about an incident on the weekend and get some wider insight on it, as it riled me up a little, but now I've had time to think about it I'm not entirely sure what I should do about it?

So at the weekend I went into a hobby store to pick up some Vampire Counts Ghouls to use as bitz for a project. It wasn't my usual hobby store, but I'd been there a few times, andI got talking to a new staffer (I assume, I'd never seen him before), and naturally, the topic of conversation got onto the Hobbit. Which I thought, sure, okay, new "big thing", and it's your job to sell it. So I went ahead and told him I bought Escape From Goblin Town and split it with a friend so that I could use the Goblin bodies as conversion fodder, and that I planned to turn them into Tzeentch Horrors using head and armswaps. His reaction to this, is what really got me wound up, as he basically told me that the conversions would look gak (more colourful language was used, but this is a family forum...), and that the LOTR/Hobbit miniatures couldn't be used in WH40k because of licencing laws, and that the current Tzeentch Horror miniatures "are terrible, but they'll probably still look better than your crappy conversions".

Safe to say, I left the store without buying the minis, at this point I was suitably offended at the fact that he'd tried to tell me how to use the miniatures I'd bought, and at the assumptions he'd made about my painting/modelling skills. What would everyone else have done? Do I report him to his manager? I feel it's likely that an attitude like this would drive more people away from the store.

Do I have a right to be annoyed, or am I just being an ass?

You have a right to be mad, but unless you are going to do something about it, you are really just going to have to suck this one up as a WTF moment.

Aside from that, someone just peed on your idea, I can see that as maybe being the bottom line issue here. Feth them. If you want to paint those Grots up as pin up models, be my guest.

Honestly life is to short to be letting this do anything for you.

Your choices are easy. You have an idea on what you want to do. If it is fiesable, or something more of just game store talk, I think miss fancy pants took it a little too far and peed all over it.

The thing to do is to forgive then this little slight and move on. If it isn't going to bernifit you, it honestly just neds to be forgotten and move on to the more important things at hand, (In your case, I guess it means hobbit guys?)

My question in reference to the subject-

Why not just use the horrors? The old ones are not really that bad. You paint them up as pinks or blues, and call it a day. To me, the whole issue that you got slighted over seems a little strange.

Not worthy of anything other then a clever ancedote.

@grot 6
I just fancied something a bit different for my army I suppose, 90% of the stuff in it is going to be converted in some way, so I didn't really want to break the theme on the core of the army.

I guess it's not so much that I was offended by it, as I said before, I felt like an attitude like that would drive people away from the store, but the couple that run the store honestly couldn't be nicer people. I really wouldn't like this to impact on them in any way.

There are many people involved in these situations it is always difficult to know what to do. It is probably best for the manager, if he knows about the situation. It may be best for you if you tell the manager as well, although I do not think that it will make much of a difference to you. It is not best for the employee if the manager knows. Then you have other customers, the employee's family, etc.

On a different tack, although the employee was rude, there may have been a grain of helpfulness in his comments. If you convert the gobbos, then you may not be able to use them in official GW events. He may have been trying to help you avoid disappointment at not being able to use the figures. Now the new horrors are bad. So he was honest. However, that fact did not support his initial point of warding you off of using the proxies. This could have led to his hurtful comments about the conversion looking worse.

I am aware that I wouldn't be able to use them in GW stores/tournaments. I rarely play outside of the shop in my town, which have no problems with conversions of this nature. I realise that this comment was an attempt at helpfulness at least, but all in all I feel he could have handled it a lot differently, or at the very least been nice in place of offensive?

Report the incident to the store manager. No salesman should talk to their customers like that. He'll either learn to hold his tongue or be on unemployment.

I'd generally go for the "I had a bit of a problem with one of your staff, I think he could do with a bit more training" line rather than "FIRE THIS MORON NOW". I've done this before (not in a hobby shop) and it's made an enormous difference. Generally makes everyone happier.

Um... Not sure where this idea that you can't use LOTR or Hobbit minis in WHFB or 40K came from...

The only reason could be that it would come under the proxy rules:

Miniatures
...
• Every miniature and component must be produced by Games Workshop (Citadel, Forge World or Warhammer Forge).
• We know many people like to take the opportunity to convert models for thematic and creative reasons. We actively
encourage this, but do ask that if you are going to do so, please check with the events team first. We may ask you to
make allowances at the event in order to ensure there is no confusion for your opponents.

Proxies
• A “proxy miniature” is a model that is standing in for something else and has not been changed in any way. Examples
include using plastic Cadian Shock Troops as Stormtroopers, plastic Tyranid Raveners as Fiends of Slannesh or plastic
MORIA Goblins as Gundabad Blackshields.
• We do not allow any proxy miniatures at our events. If Games Workshop produces a model for a unit entry, we expect
you to use the correct model, for the sake of clarity to your opponent. (For conversions, please see the point above in
the ‘Miniatures’ section)....

So you can't use a LOTR Gobiln as a WHFB Goblin if it is a proxy. Given the size diffrent however, it seems fair. Conversions using LOTR or Hobbit minis would be fine though.

On to the point of the guy being rude. Please do report him. I used to work in a place with a guy who was a total ass. The management would not do anything about him as he was carefull to be nice infront of them, and when we complained they said they needed proof (very bad management). If customers complain you may be doing other staff a favour.

So you can't use non GW figures in a GW store, that makes sense. But now you can't use certain GW figures with other ones? GW having a license is one thing, but expecting customers to abide by that is going a bit far. Asking that you buy GW only is going as far as reasonable, asking that you only mix certain products is fairly ridiculous. Many examples of equivalents in other companies?

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
So you can't use non GW figures in a GW store, that makes sense. But now you can't use certain GW figures with other ones? GW having a license is one thing, but expecting customers to abide by that is going a bit far. Asking that you buy GW only is going as far as reasonable, asking that you only mix certain products is fairly ridiculous. Many examples of equivalents in other companies?

It is a misunderstanding brought about by something which was part of the Golden Daemon competition.

It used to be that if you had a conversion with any LOTR parts, they could not publish the photograph because of licensing restrictions. It did not prevent you from winning or anything, just prevented them from publishing the photos of your entry on their website or in White Dwarf.

Sounds like a gakker.

report him to his manager, see if they apologize to you sufficient to appease your sense of insult, if not, never go there again, if so, rejoice and enjoy your consumer experience with this store.

Graphite wrote:
I'd generally go for the "I had a bit of a problem with one of your staff, I think he could do with a bit more training" line rather than "FIRE THIS MORON NOW". I've done this before (not in a hobby shop) and it's made an enormous difference. Generally makes everyone happier.

When I was a retail manager, while calls complaining about staff were annoying, they did show me where the weak spots in my staff were. Any business that's trying to succeed values feedback on it's staff.

OTOH, why bother?

I'd report this. I doubt any decent store owner wants that gak amongst his employees

 Polonius wrote:

Graphite wrote:
I'd generally go for the "I had a bit of a problem with one of your staff, I think he could do with a bit more training" line rather than "FIRE THIS MORON NOW". I've done this before (not in a hobby shop) and it's made an enormous difference. Generally makes everyone happier.

When I was a retail manager, while calls complaining about staff were annoying, they did show me where the weak spots in my staff were. Any business that's trying to succeed values feedback on it's staff.

OTOH, why bother?

Well, he bothered to post it on the internet, so it would take about that level of effort to post a copypasted email to the owner.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Sounds like a gakker.

report him to his manager, see if they apologize to you sufficient to appease your sense of insult, if not, never go there again, if so, rejoice and enjoy your consumer experience with this store.

Why stop there? I would kill him where he stood for this dishonour! [/Worf]

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 Polonius wrote:

Graphite wrote:
I'd generally go for the "I had a bit of a problem with one of your staff, I think he could do with a bit more training" line rather than "FIRE THIS MORON NOW". I've done this before (not in a hobby shop) and it's made an enormous difference. Generally makes everyone happier.

When I was a retail manager, while calls complaining about staff were annoying, they did show me where the weak spots in my staff were. Any business that's trying to succeed values feedback on it's staff.

OTOH, why bother?

Well, he bothered to post it on the internet, so it would take about that level of effort to post a copypasted email to the owner.

It's not a question of effort, but of return.

Posting on the internet brings feedback and discussion. Complaining to a manager or owner can bring confrontation.

I mean, he's alleging outright hostile behavior on the part of a sales clerk, and his question was if he had "a right to be annoyed." Color me cynical, but this doesn't look like a guy seeking solutions or change, but merely validation and attention.