Switch Theme:

Which is the most versatile LRBT version?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Douglas Bader






 Ailaros wrote:
If something were both great against all targets, AND really cheap, well, we probably wouldn't see guard lists with anything BUT said unit.


And that is why Vendettas are a mandatory unit.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 Ailaros wrote:

If something were both great against all targets, AND really cheap, well, we probably wouldn't see guard lists with anything BUT said unit.

I've seen 9 Vendettas.

And before someone whines about the "all targets" part, they can carry 2x Heavy Bolter.

"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."

This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.


Freelance Ontologist

When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Vallejo, CA

For really cheap, too.

Of course, can we think of ANY russ loadout that's going to be good against 9x vendetta spam AND be versatile at the same time?


Your one-stop website for batreps, articles, and assorted goodies about the men of Folera: Foleran First Imperial Archives. Read Dakka's favorite narrative battle report series The Hand of the King. Also, check out my commission work, and my terrain.

Abstract Principles of 40k: Why game imbalance and list tailoring is good, and why tournaments are an absurd farce.

Read "The Geomides Affair", now on sale! No bolter porn. Not another inquisitor story. A book written by a dakkanought for dakkanoughts!
 
   
Made in au
Liche Priest Hierophant







For that matter, can we think of ANY russ loadout that will be good against 9x vendetta spam?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






There are great generalist units to be had besides vendettas if trying to damage av14 is off the table. Hydras are weaker but still have good shot count and twin linked when no flyers are around. The aegis 2+ cover save supported by spammed auto cannon teams are passable as well, as when firing at flyers the go to ground penalty is diminished. But I digress, vendettas are still the best choice around, and very few builds can deal with that many. For Russes to take them on, you would need to hide your rear and camp behind an aegis line with camo nets. You would probably have an easier time beating that force by choking the board so full of models that they can't ever come on the board, or by killing whatever is on the table turn 1 by some means so the vendettas never get to play
   
Made in us
Haemonculi Flesh Apprentice






 Ailaros wrote:
If only my opponents would ever go into hover mode. I would LOVE to get some non-snap-shot lascannon hits on them.

Oh, wait...




Not the point, the point is hover mode IS an option that makes the vendetta more maneuverable. That and the ability to leave combat space means it will always be able to out pace a Russ. Good for your crappy PIS las canon spam, that's what the rest of your opponents army is for. If your dedicating your heavy section and your troops to deal with a couple cheap vendettas then you already lost.

   
Made in us
Battleship Captain





NYC

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
For that matter, can we think of ANY russ loadout that will be good against 9x vendetta spam?


18 Leman Russ Annihilators with Hull Lascannon and Sponson Multimelta.

18 Leman Russ Exterminators with Hull Lascannon and Sponson Multimelta.

18 Leman Russ Vanquishers with Coaxial Stubber, Hull Lascannon, and Sponson Multimelta.

Dakka member since 2012/01/09 16:44:06

Rick's Cards&Games 1000pt Tourney: 2nd
Legion's Winter Showdown 1850: 2nd Place
Snake Eyes 1000pt Mixed Doubles: 3rd Place

Elysian 105th Skylance W:37-L:3-D:6 in 6th Edition

The Captain does HH:Imperial Fists! Tale of Four Gamers Plog (New Batrep posted!) 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 Ailaros wrote:
For really cheap, too.

Of course, can we think of ANY russ loadout that's going to be good against 9x vendetta spam AND be versatile at the same time?


Yes, the ensponsoned Eradicators.

9 Vendettas don't bother me. It's pretty easy to table them in the 2 turns before anything shows up.

2 Vendettas are much more useful.

"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."

This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.


Freelance Ontologist

When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. 
   
Made in us
Battleship Captain





NYC

 DarknessEternal wrote:
 Ailaros wrote:
For really cheap, too.

Of course, can we think of ANY russ loadout that's going to be good against 9x vendetta spam AND be versatile at the same time?


Yes, the ensponsoned Eradicators.

9 Vendettas don't bother me. It's pretty easy to table them in the 2 turns before anything shows up.

2 Vendettas are much more useful.


With 9 vendettas, something is all but guaranteed to show up the second turn.

And no good player running 9 vendettas will be table-able. Its as simple as hiding out of LoS for a turn.

Dakka member since 2012/01/09 16:44:06

Rick's Cards&Games 1000pt Tourney: 2nd
Legion's Winter Showdown 1850: 2nd Place
Snake Eyes 1000pt Mixed Doubles: 3rd Place

Elysian 105th Skylance W:37-L:3-D:6 in 6th Edition

The Captain does HH:Imperial Fists! Tale of Four Gamers Plog (New Batrep posted!) 
   
Made in au
Liche Priest Hierophant







 TheCaptain wrote:
 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
For that matter, can we think of ANY russ loadout that will be good against 9x vendetta spam?


18 Leman Russ Annihilators with Hull Lascannon and Sponson Multimelta.

18 Leman Russ Exterminators with Hull Lascannon and Sponson Multimelta.

18 Leman Russ Vanquishers with Coaxial Stubber, Hull Lascannon, and Sponson Multimelta.


Hehe... good point.

   
Made in us
Battleship Captain





NYC

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
 TheCaptain wrote:
 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
For that matter, can we think of ANY russ loadout that will be good against 9x vendetta spam?


18 Leman Russ Annihilators with Hull Lascannon and Sponson Multimelta.

18 Leman Russ Exterminators with Hull Lascannon and Sponson Multimelta.

18 Leman Russ Vanquishers with Coaxial Stubber, Hull Lascannon, and Sponson Multimelta.


Hehe... good point.



I'm a well of brilliance.

Dakka member since 2012/01/09 16:44:06

Rick's Cards&Games 1000pt Tourney: 2nd
Legion's Winter Showdown 1850: 2nd Place
Snake Eyes 1000pt Mixed Doubles: 3rd Place

Elysian 105th Skylance W:37-L:3-D:6 in 6th Edition

The Captain does HH:Imperial Fists! Tale of Four Gamers Plog (New Batrep posted!) 
   
Made in au
Liche Priest Hierophant







Yes. Yes you are.
   
Made in se
Regular Dakkanaut





The LR with battle cannon is versatile.

5115 points
2000 points 
   
Made in us
Battleship Captain





NYC

 Tomten wrote:
The LR with battle cannon is versatile.


Tomten, buddy. I've noticed with several of your posts; you usually just make a short post with a statement and no justification.

At dakka, we like explanations and math.

Because any advice here may lead to someone buying new models.

If I start a thread saying "What is IG's best tank?"

and you say "LR with battle cannon" I'm not going to feel very comfortable buying an LR with battle cannon, because I have no idea why.

You need to explain your posts. Give reasoning why, and maybe put some math behind it as proof. It will make your posts much more useful.

-TheCaptain

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/19 16:28:09


Dakka member since 2012/01/09 16:44:06

Rick's Cards&Games 1000pt Tourney: 2nd
Legion's Winter Showdown 1850: 2nd Place
Snake Eyes 1000pt Mixed Doubles: 3rd Place

Elysian 105th Skylance W:37-L:3-D:6 in 6th Edition

The Captain does HH:Imperial Fists! Tale of Four Gamers Plog (New Batrep posted!) 
   
Made in us
Heroic Senior Officer





Western Kentucky

Either the LRBT or the Executioner with full plasma sponsons.

LRBT is decent against almost anything but Termis, cover abuse infantry, fliers, and MC.

Plasmastorm Exectuioner is good against anything not AV 14/fliers and cover abuse infantry. The sheer weight of fire gives it enough wounds to handle MC's (not to mention it's got an easier time hitting them) and spaced out elite units like termi squads, and at the same time makes it a threat to hordes. The fact that templates hit at full strength now makes it a threat to parking lots, as it'll strip hullpoints like crazy against a packed in line. The AP also gives you a 1/3 explosion chance (1/2 if open topped) meaning against things like rhinos you even have a chance to kill it outright.

With the LRBT, I have run into situations where its useless.

I've NEVER ran into a situation where my executioners couldn't kill something redonculously well in the opponent's army.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/19 16:36:11


'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in se
Regular Dakkanaut





 TheCaptain wrote:
 Tomten wrote:
The LR with battle cannon is versatile.


Tomten, buddy. I've noticed with several of your posts; you usually just make a short post with a statement and no justification.

At dakka, we like explanations and math.

Because any advice here may lead to someone buying new models.

If I start a thread saying "What is IG's best tank?"

and you say "LR with battle cannon" I'm not going to feel very comfortable buying an LR with battle cannon, because I have no idea why.

You need to explain your posts. Give reasoning why, and maybe put some math behind it as proof. It will make your posts much more useful.

-TheCaptain


Thank you for the info.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I will do that from now on.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/19 17:19:35


5115 points
2000 points 
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





Columbus, GA

I'm not good at math. I rely on you guys to do all that for me.

DaddyWarcrimes: "Playing IG means never having to use the end of a screwdriver to pound a nail because you always have the points to bring the hammer."
Valhalla130's Hobby Progress thread: Valhallans, 'Nids and Fists
 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




Given the nerf on lumbering behemoth, the answer to this is almost certainly some variant with a non-ordnance weapon, right?
   
Made in us
Battleship Captain





NYC

Martel732 wrote:
Given the nerf on lumbering behemoth, the answer to this is almost certainly some variant with a non-ordnance weapon, right?


Well, the good answer is "Guard don't "do" versatility."

Guard use

3 of Unit X that do job A
4 of Unit Y that do job B
2 of Unit Z that do job C
and
2 of Unit V that sing, dance, and do two things pretty good.

Basic formula for a guard list.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/19 19:46:12


Dakka member since 2012/01/09 16:44:06

Rick's Cards&Games 1000pt Tourney: 2nd
Legion's Winter Showdown 1850: 2nd Place
Snake Eyes 1000pt Mixed Doubles: 3rd Place

Elysian 105th Skylance W:37-L:3-D:6 in 6th Edition

The Captain does HH:Imperial Fists! Tale of Four Gamers Plog (New Batrep posted!) 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Springfield, VA

Martel732 wrote:
Given the nerf on lumbering behemoth, the answer to this is almost certainly some variant with a non-ordnance weapon, right?


Only if you like sponsons. If you're like me, and ran basic Russes with no upgrades commonly, then the nerf really didn't affect them. We only lost our heavy bolter, and not even completely because it still protects from Weapon Destroyed and can snap-fire.

I never fired their heavy bolters in 5th anyways because of wound allocation shennanigans. So no real loss honestly.
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




Ah, okay. I guess snap firing is less of a loss for the Guard than the Spess Mahreens
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Springfield, VA

Martel732 wrote:
Ah, okay. I guess snap firing is less of a loss for the Guard than the Spess Mahreens


That and it's a single heavy bolter - commonly agreed to be one of the most useless weapons ever period (since 4th iirc).
   
Made in us
1st Lieutenant




Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA

Simple answer is we don't really do "versatility"

The Guard rely on multiple redundant specialized units to get a job done. The unit has one purpose, and if it dies another takes it spot and it does the job. Once the job is over, it can provide support for other un-done jobs.

We CAN have versatile units, but thanks to us being only Guardsmen and not Space Marines the unit will be pretty OK at things but not great at anything.

Here is what I do when I play around with lists:
1: List out all the jobs you need to take care of in your meta (or all if you want to), like Heavy Armor killing, TeQ killing, Horde killing, etc.
2: Create 2-3 units to cover each section, and specialize them for that section (obviously, points may restrict what you do here so you may have to bring priorities or sacrifices)
3: Any gaps not covered, or not covered well enough, you can try to patch up with a few generalist units.

DS:90S++G++M--B++I++Pww211++D++A+++/areWD-R+++T(T)DM+

Miniature Projects:
6mm/15mm Cold War

15/20mm World War 2 (using Flames of War or Battlegroup Overlord/Kursk)

6mm Napoleonic's (Prussia, Russia, France, Britain) 
   
Made in se
Regular Dakkanaut





Is the demolisher less competitive thanthe LRBT? I mean who doesnt like a S10 AP2 large blast?

5115 points
2000 points 
   
Made in us
Honored Helliarch on Hypex




 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
Ah, okay. I guess snap firing is less of a loss for the Guard than the Spess Mahreens


That and it's a single heavy bolter - commonly agreed to be one of the most useless weapons ever period (since 4th iirc).


To be fair, there are a few platforms that can do heavy bolters well. Long fangs can pick up five BS4 heavy bolters for a mere 115 points in their long fang squads, though missile launchers are certainly more common. I'm not precisely sure why Long Fangs get a 5 ppm discount on such weird weapons, but it does add a bit of inter-codex variety to the devastator options (even if every devastator squad in that codex seems to be bringing the same weapon).

Of course, if you're really itching for S5 firepower, you can't do much better than the Imperial Armour Vulture (which brings a twin-linked punisher gatling cannon on a BS3 strafing run vector dancing AV12-12-10 flier.) The Leman Russ Punisher promises twenty shots with a complimentary heavy bolter. The vulture gets those shots to the target accurately, for 20% fewer points.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Vallejo, CA

TheCaptain wrote:Well, the good answer is "Guard don't "do" versatility."

And normally I'd agree with that, but I don't think this rule is actually that applicable to russes. Russes aren't cheap, and they have actually GOOD mixable weapons options.

MrMoustaffa wrote:LRBT is decent against almost anything but Termis, cover abuse infantry, fliers, and MC.

With the LRBT, I have run into situations where its useless.

And vehicles.

Anyways, I think the bottom line is telling, and a good way to judge versatility, actually. Being good at something is great, but if the thing you're good at causes you to have a unit that does basically nothing for half of your games, then you've got a problem. I mean, it's the main reason I eventually ditched ogryn. I want something that is reasonably useful or better every game, rather than something that alternates between beatface and pine riding depending on the circumstances.

Thankfully, due to russ hull weapon options, you're much less likely to fall into that trap.


Your one-stop website for batreps, articles, and assorted goodies about the men of Folera: Foleran First Imperial Archives. Read Dakka's favorite narrative battle report series The Hand of the King. Also, check out my commission work, and my terrain.

Abstract Principles of 40k: Why game imbalance and list tailoring is good, and why tournaments are an absurd farce.

Read "The Geomides Affair", now on sale! No bolter porn. Not another inquisitor story. A book written by a dakkanought for dakkanoughts!
 
   
Made in us
Heroic Senior Officer





Western Kentucky

They're actually not too bad against vehicles. I've often tossed shots at fire support vehicles since I know with ordnance, odds are I'll get a pen, and that I'll probably screw that vehicle's ability to shoot well.

But that being said, I'd much much MUCH rather shoot something else.

'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in se
Regular Dakkanaut





Would you take en Executioner over a LRBT? I mean the Executioner can put out 5 blast with AP2 but its 36 inch range while the LRBT has a range of 72 and can hurt vehicles very well and it kill MEQs.

5115 points
2000 points 
   
Made in us
Honored Helliarch on Hypex




If I didn't have to cripple my list elsewhere to get the points, I certainly would. A Guardsman with appropriate devotion does not fear death. If Executioners don't exemplify this, I don't know what does.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/20 11:44:29


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Springfield, VA

 Tomten wrote:
Would you take en Executioner over a LRBT? I mean the Executioner can put out 5 blast with AP2 but its 36 inch range while the LRBT has a range of 72 and can hurt vehicles very well and it kill MEQs.


Not in my Armored Battlegroup. I can't spare the ~100 points more that the Executioner costs.
   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: