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I'm looking, and with two of my Heavy support slots soaked up with Storm Ravens already, I'm left with my troop choices, DTs and 3 fast attack slots.

what should I be taking as anti-tank?

I equip my assault marines with melta guns, and meltabombs.

Melta guns, Infernus Pistols, Power Fist. Job done.

Hmmm... if only there was a very common weapon in SM lists that could ...melt...a... tank or armour. Perhaps one that allowed 2D6 on armour pen rolls if you're within 12".


What could it be... hmmm....



EDIT: I don't think this question warranted 2 threads.

It wasn't intentional.

I'm not sure how it works though. You're right that I should be taking melta, but they don't really have a dedicated anti-tank weapon. (SM have things like predators, I'm used to taking that kind of option.)

Scipio Africanus wrote:
It wasn't intentional.

I'm not sure how it works though. You're right that I should be taking melta, but they don't really have a dedicated anti-tank weapon. (SM have things like predators, I'm used to taking that kind of option.)

Blood angel's have access to predators; Baal Predators; Storm Ravens; etc.

You don't need a dedicated anti-tank weapon. Your assault marines can zip around the battlefield, with infernus pistols, meltaguns and powerfists plus Furious Charge and Feel No Pain, they can withstand a fair bit of damage for their points cost and can threaten all types of unit - light and heavy vehicles with the guns and fist, and can threaten light infantry with huge numbers of high strength attacks and heavy infantry will get a melta volley followed by a power fist.

Use your other slots for las-preds and dakka preds.

 Testify wrote:
You don't need a dedicated anti-tank weapon. Your assault marines can zip around the battlefield, with infernus pistols, meltaguns and powerfists plus Furious Charge and Feel No Pain, they can withstand a fair bit of damage for their points cost and can threaten all types of unit - light and heavy vehicles with the guns and fist, and can threaten light infantry with huge numbers of high strength attacks and heavy infantry will get a melta volley followed by a power fist.

Use your other slots for las-preds and dakka preds.

You forget that you need anti-flyer (or, at least in my meta I do. I've got at least 2 opponents taking necron flyer spam.)

So, How should the Assault marines be taken then?

215 points for 10 guys with 2 guns and meltabombs? (since the fist would only be used against things like dreadnoughts and monsters, the latter of which can just challenge and knock me out.)

and, should I leave them as jump infantry, or give them a transport?

Baring in mind, I would want to run at least two units of troops with Priests, which would either get a jump pack or a fist.

1-2 Assault squads with Melta
squads of 3 attack bikes with MM
+
Stormravens

THats alot alot of anti tank

10 assault marines making a disorganized charge (so no bonus attack) get 21 s5 attacks with furious assault. That is 14 hits on moving vehicles, 2 pens and 2 glances. of course if you only assault one vehicle this goes up by 50 percent, and with a fist and shooting it goes up father still.

It takes 18 s9 fist attacks to crack open av14 rear vehicles, so really the only thing an assault squad can't kill with a charge is flyers and av14 all around units. Melta guns on these units help make up for this weakness, as does storm ravens firing on enemy flyers with blood strike missiles. Finally, a BA Libby with prescience can give a boost to hit flyers or make the assault marines hit better in close combat for a win win force multiplier to help the op deal with flyers and vehicles.

Scipio Africanus wrote:

 Testify wrote:
You don't need a dedicated anti-tank weapon. Your assault marines can zip around the battlefield, with infernus pistols, meltaguns and powerfists plus Furious Charge and Feel No Pain, they can withstand a fair bit of damage for their points cost and can threaten all types of unit - light and heavy vehicles with the guns and fist, and can threaten light infantry with huge numbers of high strength attacks and heavy infantry will get a melta volley followed by a power fist.

Use your other slots for las-preds and dakka preds.

You forget that you need anti-flyer (or, at least in my meta I do. I've got at least 2 opponents taking necron flyer spam.)

So, How should the Assault marines be taken then?

215 points for 10 guys with 2 guns and meltabombs? (since the fist would only be used against things like dreadnoughts and monsters, the latter of which can just challenge and knock me out.)

and, should I leave them as jump infantry, or give them a transport?

Stormravens themselves are very good against other flyers. Assault Marines can potentially help too, as 1/6 objectives provide Skyfire, and another 1/6 give re-rolls on 1s for shooting, both of which help your meltaguns hit flyers. With your 12" move you can threaten a fairly large area with the meltaguns while trailing models back to hold the objective so you can use the benefit.

Nowadays I mostly run AMs with 2x melta and a power sword on the sgt. I used to run a squad in a rhino as well, but they're less useful now.

Scipio Africanus wrote:
Bearing in mind, I would want to run at least two units of troops with Priests, which would either get a jump pack or a fist.

I think they get too expensive if you buy a priest for every unit. Usually with good positioning you can protect all or nearly all your squads with half that many priests, or even fewer. I usually run 1-2 priests in an army.

I find it a pain to actually use meltaguns for anti tank. The best two weapons for anti tank work are the multimelta and the lascannon.

To this effect, I'm a big fan of FNP attack bikes and auto/las predators.

How many points are you playing? 2 stormravens seem like overkill, especially since one of them is likely to be delayed till turn 3. My stormravens have actually helped me win a shockingly few amount of times.

And, yes you DO need dedicated anti tank weapons. If you try to zip around the field like the above poster stated, you will be zipping your guys into coffins. There is no safe way to approach a vindicator or Leman Russ with an assault team.

To approach a battle cannon type weapon, which I have done many times with ras BA, simply spread out and use cover. They miss half the time, hit 3 models when they do hit, and with cover or if they roll a 1 you lose 2 models. Then you assault them on turn 2 and they die.

The turn 2 blood angels army is not infallible, and your whole list needs to be aggressive to have it work, but it demolishes the standard gun line in long board edge games now that you can actually hit tanks in cc instead of on 6s.

A friend of mine who plays Blood Angels takes his anti-tank in the form of MSU melta sqauds.

Several 5 an assault sqauds (usually 3 or 4) with melta guns Deep Strike in (only scattering 1D6 thanks to DoA), land reliably close enough for 2D6 in the rear armour of his chosen target.

Poof.

With FNP they can usually survive the retribution fire and they then join up with other teams and chareg the crud out of any infantry in range.

Martel732 wrote:
How many points are you playing? 2 Stormravens seem like overkill, especially since one of them is likely to be delayed till turn 3.

While these guys are totally awesome, if they get delayed even a single turn it hurts. If they come in, I would think two twin linked multi meltas would be fine. It should be relatively easy to pop what ever is in your way with minimum harm to yourself.

Usually I dedicate a squad of 10 Sternguard to taking out what ever they largest threat is. A turn one drop can be pretty brutal for your opponent. Don't forget to combat squad them. You get first blood guaranteed. You can make them espcially bad A if you throw Brother Corbulo in with them. This will cost you though, but its how I deal with the AV 14. They are pretty durable with Corbulo standing in the front like a boss. They'll be there second turn.

Not being a BA player, I can only comment on what I've read in the Codex and what I've seen either on the table or on the Internet. I might suggest a Librarian Dread with Blood Lance and Wings of Sanguinius. Fast and they seem like they can dish it out too. Am I correct in thinking that they take up an Elite slot as well? *Shrugs* They seem pretty cool.

Blood Lance is pretty nasty.

A Baal pred with a TL Assault Cannon can do a fair amount of damage as well.

5man assault guys with a melta gun. You deepstrike 1D6 instead of 2D6. And can't you also reroll the reserve roll?

 Goat wrote:
5man assault guys with a melta gun. You deepstrike 1D6 instead of 2D6. And can't you also reroll the reserve roll?

These are all true statements. ALSO. THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE.

 Goat wrote:
5man assault guys with a melta gun. You deepstrike 1D6 instead of 2D6. And can't you also reroll the reserve roll?

Indeed. Stupid cheesey cheating Blood Angels and their stupid jump packs. (j/k)

I saw your army list in a different thread. You will be right on with 10x Assault units with 2 meltaguns and meltabombs (if you have the extra points). And as has been noted, the ability to combat squad and deepstrike with the melta is a nice option to have in your back pocket.

I've had luck combat-squading my 10 man/2 melta assault squads. Drop the two meltas in as a sacrificial unit and they usually get the job done against rear armor.

In addition, multi-melta attack bikes make a great accessory for any jump-list, as they can stay near the priest for FNP and can keep up with the jumpers.

Next, Stormraven Multi-Meltas are great, being TL and having POTMS to allow you to snipe a separate target.

Finally, in 6th edition the Vindicator got a huge buff, with the entire large blast hits at S10 against vehicles. And since it's a fast vehicle, it gets a 36" threat range (12" move + 24" shoot). Add in a libby prescience buff for scatter reroll and it can put the hurt on one, maybe two tanks if you're lucky.

oh the vindicator. getting to roll 2d6 and picking the highest is nice, esp on a s10 weapon.

i personally like either 2 preds w/ss LC or 2 vindicators. I've been moving to more mech here lately and find these two units awesome. I'm going to try 1 pred and 1 vindicator this weekend and see how she works out.

g0atsticks wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
How many points are you playing? 2 Stormravens seem like overkill, especially since one of them is likely to be delayed till turn 3.

While these guys are totally awesome, if they get delayed even a single turn it hurts. If they come in, I would think two twin linked multi meltas would be fine. It should be relatively easy to pop what ever is in your way with minimum harm to yourself.

Usually I dedicate a squad of 10 Sternguard to taking out what ever they largest threat is. A turn one drop can be pretty brutal for your opponent. Don't forget to combat squad them. You get first blood guaranteed. You can make them espcially bad A if you throw Brother Corbulo in with them. This will cost you though, but its how I deal with the AV 14. They are pretty durable with Corbulo standing in the front like a boss. They'll be there second turn.

I understand this tactic, but if said LR is filled with assault terminators, they will massacre your entire squad plus Corbs the very next turn, as they are allowed to assault out of the wreckage. If it is Deathwing, you didn't even get a pinning roll.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Goat wrote:
5man assault guys with a melta gun. You deepstrike 1D6 instead of 2D6. And can't you also reroll the reserve roll?

It's not hard to bubblewrap key vehicles against a gun that needs to be within 6". I do it all the time. DoA is kind of rubbish.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Praxiss wrote:
A friend of mine who plays Blood Angels takes his anti-tank in the form of MSU melta sqauds.

Several 5 an assault sqauds (usually 3 or 4) with melta guns Deep Strike in (only scattering 1D6 thanks to DoA), land reliably close enough for 2D6 in the rear armour of his chosen target.

Poof.

With FNP they can usually survive the retribution fire and they then join up with other teams and chareg the crud out of any infantry in range.

How does each squad have FNP? Do they each have their own priest? Furthermore, even with a rear shot, a single melta shot has a low chance of actually *killing* a tank.

Martel732 wrote:

g0atsticks wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
How many points are you playing? 2 Stormravens seem like overkill, especially since one of them is likely to be delayed till turn 3.

While these guys are totally awesome, if they get delayed even a single turn it hurts. If they come in, I would think two twin linked multi meltas would be fine. It should be relatively easy to pop what ever is in your way with minimum harm to yourself.

Usually I dedicate a squad of 10 Sternguard to taking out what ever they largest threat is. A turn one drop can be pretty brutal for your opponent. Don't forget to combat squad them. You get first blood guaranteed. You can make them espcially bad A if you throw Brother Corbulo in with them. This will cost you though, but its how I deal with the AV 14. They are pretty durable with Corbulo standing in the front like a boss. They'll be there second turn.

I understand this tactic, but if said LR is filled with assault terminators, they will massacre your entire squad plus Corbs the very next turn, as they are allowed to assault out of the wreckage. If it is Deathwing, you didn't even get a pinning roll.

Since drop pods can be put in the closest safe place for the most part, you can drop them in awesome paces. Sternguard can usually make their points back, and with Corbulo giving them all FnP and he has a 3+2+, it can get pretty knarly. 10 sternguard is a guarenteed kill, once you combat squad them you can use the other 5 guys to hit them with their combi flamers. They are quite the versatile unit.

This is just "A" way to deal with the high AV. It works. EVERYTIME.

Martel732 wrote:
It's not hard to bubblewrap key vehicles against a gun that needs to be within 6". I do it all the time. DoA is kind of rubbish

Deepstrike is an option. 10-man assault squads with meltaguns are a very versatile anti-tank unit. I'm not sure how a re-rollable 3+ deep strike with only 1D6" scatter for no additional cost to a unit is "rubbish".

reps0l wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
It's not hard to bubblewrap key vehicles against a gun that needs to be within 6". I do it all the time. DoA is kind of rubbish

Deepstrike is an option. 10-man assault squads with meltaguns are a very versatile anti-tank unit. I'm not sure how a re-rollable 3+ deep strike with only 1D6" scatter for no additional cost to a unit is "rubbish".

It's rubbish because you are a) piecemealing your army for me b) risking 10 meqs to pop off 2 meltagun shots c) DoA does not prevent bubblewrapping d) you can't assault the turn you descend , and BA tricks rely on charging.

It's better to kill the tanks in question the old fashioned way: shoot them with big guns. Even with this, it makes LRs a pain in the ass. Attack bikes will hit them from 11" away. This is well within charge range of any assault terminators that survive the explosion (assuming it explodes). But at least I can set up a counter attack to protect my attack bikes and I'm losing a non-scoring unit and coming out 100+ points ahead in the trade.

Unfortunately for the BA, deep strike was crap in 5th and its still pretty crappy in 6th. Because this is what we get instead of combat tactics. Bullocks!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

g0atsticks wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

g0atsticks wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
How many points are you playing? 2 Stormravens seem like overkill, especially since one of them is likely to be delayed till turn 3.

While these guys are totally awesome, if they get delayed even a single turn it hurts. If they come in, I would think two twin linked multi meltas would be fine. It should be relatively easy to pop what ever is in your way with minimum harm to yourself.

Usually I dedicate a squad of 10 Sternguard to taking out what ever they largest threat is. A turn one drop can be pretty brutal for your opponent. Don't forget to combat squad them. You get first blood guaranteed. You can make them espcially bad A if you throw Brother Corbulo in with them. This will cost you though, but its how I deal with the AV 14. They are pretty durable with Corbulo standing in the front like a boss. They'll be there second turn.

I understand this tactic, but if said LR is filled with assault terminators, they will massacre your entire squad plus Corbs the very next turn, as they are allowed to assault out of the wreckage. If it is Deathwing, you didn't even get a pinning roll.

Since drop pods can be put in the closest safe place for the most part, you can drop them in awesome paces. Sternguard can usually make their points back, and with Corbulo giving them all FnP and he has a 3+2+, it can get pretty knarly. 10 sternguard is a guarenteed kill, once you combat squad them you can use the other 5 guys to hit them with their combi flamers. They are quite the versatile unit.

This is just "A" way to deal with the high AV. It works. EVERYTIME.

I'm not challenging any of these assertions, really. I'm just pointing out that the assault vehicles rules makes a LR of assault terminators a tricky target. To pop it, you must end up in meltarange, which means you will be charged guaranteed on the next turn unless they get pinned. Sternguard + Corbs for a LR is not that great of a trade, especially in firepower terms, since LR have very medicore throw weight for their point cost.

Infernus pistols, meltas, TL las razorbacks, TL las pred with las sponsons, speeders with multi meltas and/or typhoons spitting krak missiles. plenty of choices!

I think he was looking for guidance on which of those to select.

The short answer to me, is this: Primary antitank is multimelta and lascannon. Meltaguns, infernus pistols and such are secondary antitank. I say this because it is much more difficult to get those short range weapons into position. The enemy gets a movement phase, too. And an assault phase.

The storm raven with multimelta and those melta missiles are pretty nasty anti armor.