Fitch says 'fiscal cliff' may cost US 'AAA' rating

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**d-usa**

Heck, I get constant emails about how Obama caved, how he is screwing over everybody because he is making concessions on social security and other welfare programs and was willing to go from $250,000 to $400,000 for tax cut extensions. There have been a lot of compromises in the proposals coming out of the WH. I've been ignoring and arguing back against the calls to pitchforks from the PACs and special interest groups, because if we want to make it through this everybody will have to get screwed equally.

Yet Boehner is introducing bills that ignore everything, is trying to undo the fiscal cliff by esentially ignoring the whole "if you guys can't compromise, then the cliff will screw everybody equally" compromise that was reached last year.

**sebster**

WarOne wrote:
Hard to tell. Gonna go consult the political pundits tomorrow about who is right on the morning news shows.

That said, it doesn't actually make sense to call the Republicans in the House a loyal opposition because they're not really an opposition at all. They're a majority and that makes them a proper arm of government, with the right to push their agenda as much as the Democratic majority in the Senate, or the President.

**Easy E**

After the Great Recession revealed that the rating agencies had no clue about anything and were ont the take; does anyone still take them seriously?

**Frazzled**

Easy E wrote:
After the Great Recession revealed that the rating agencies had no clue about anything and were ont the take; does anyone still take them seriously?

Yes actually.

**whembly**

Frazzled wrote:
Easy E wrote:
After the Great Recession revealed that the rating agencies had no clue about anything and were ont the take; does anyone still take them seriously?

Yes actually.

Well... you work for a Bank dontcha? You kinda have to...

**Frazzled**

whembly wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Easy E wrote:
After the Great Recession revealed that the rating agencies had no clue about anything and were ont the take; does anyone still take them seriously?

Yes actually.

Well... you work for a Bank dontcha? You kinda have to...

Financial investors have to. Investment funds typicaly have a mix of bonds depending on the risk profile they are telling their clients about. If a bond falls below investment grade, typically they have to get out. there is also something country risk, and has a similar issue.

The effect for the USA has been muted because frankly, its not that we're awesome, but because the rest of the world sucks even more.

**whembly**

Frazzled wrote:
whembly wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Easy E wrote:
After the Great Recession revealed that the rating agencies had no clue about anything and were ont the take; does anyone still take them seriously?

Yes actually.

Well... you work for a Bank dontcha? You kinda have to...

Financial investors have to. Investment funds typicaly have a mix of bonds depending on the risk profile they are telling their clients about. If a bond falls below investment grade, typically they have to get out. there is also something country risk, and has a similar issue.

The effect for the USA has been muted because frankly, its not that we're awesome, but because the rest of the world sucks even more.

Naw... we're awesome brah!

Yeah.... my mum been saying the same thing (she works for Ernst&Young international tax division)... saying things are looking bad now. o.O

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Time for Plan C? o.O

http://legalinsurrection.com/2012/12/plan-b-fails-now-the-house-needs-to-consider-plan-c/

Just flashed across the screens was that the final vote on the tax portion of so-called Plan B had been cancelled tonight because John Boehner did not have enough votes.

What a mess.

You don’t go there unless you are certain you can get there.

Plan C, The Christmas Plan, is the only alternative right now:

I say call his bluff. If a deal which tackles deficits from both revenue and spending can be reached this month, great.

If not, pass a 90 day extension of current tax rates and whatever else is needed to postpone the “cliff,” and go home for Christmas to give time for a Grand Bargain which puts Democratic sacred cows on the table.

Let Harry Reid refuse to bring it to a vote, and Obama refuse to sign it. Their inaction will be the reason for taxes rising for everyone.

Here’s Boehner’s statement:

“The House did not take up the tax measure today because it did not have sufficient support from our members to pass. Now it is up to the president to work with Senator Reid on legislation to avert the fiscal cliff. The House has already passed legislation to stop all of the January 1 tax rate increases and replace the sequester with responsible spending cuts that will begin to address our nation’s crippling debt. The Senate must now act.”

From my post earlier today:

Preserve the status quo pending negotiations on spending reductions and entitlement reforms until after the artificial year-end deadline, which is Obama’s big pressure point, passes.

It will be harder for Harry Reid to table, or Obama to veto, something which preserves the status quo pending further negotiations, even if they know it ultimately weakens their hand.

And if they do nix it, they will not have the smokescreen of claiming Boehner and the Republicans walked away from negotiations.

Update – For those of you who have not been following, Plan C has been my plan since early December, it is not a reaction to the failure tonight. The basic premise is that no agreement can be reached with Obama this calendar year because any deal Obama will offer when he thinks we are under the pressure of a year end “cliff” will be horrible. And sure enough, what little movement the White House has made has been horrible.

Remove the pressure point. Get passed Obama’s trump card, but in a way which makes it very hard for Obama to walk away and also does not concede substantive ground. That way is to kick the ball past New Year’s, because only with passage of more time will Obama have to negotiate on spending and entitlements.

Punting is better than fumbling. It looks like we are fumbling.

We've been fumbling these last couple of years...

**JEB_Stuart**

sebster wrote:
JEB_Stuart wrote:
Well we don't have a Federal sales tax, but most states do. Most people get double dipped on income tax as states and the Feds do that. Thankfully in Texas there is no state income tax though

That isn't really what double taxation means. To really be double taxation, it'd have to be a tax levied on the same form twice. So taxing income as corporations tax, and then taxing that income again as dividends is double taxation. But taxing something as income tax, and then taking further tax as sales tax isn't.

Correct, but that isn't what I was saying. Come on Seb, I know your reading comprehension is better then that. I commented on the existence of the Federal income tax, which of course exists, and then noted that most states also have their own income tax, with some glorious exceptions like Texas. If that isn't double dipping on taxes, then I am way off base.

**dogma**

Frazzled wrote:

Frankly if we didn't have to watch the sausage being made (like in the good old days) we'd be much happier about the situation.

You don't have to, you can choose to ignore political news much as, I imagine, you choose to ignore celebrity news.

The reality is that, for whatever reason, you choose to pay attention.

**KalashnikovMarine**

dogma wrote:
Frazzled wrote:

Frankly if we didn't have to watch the sausage being made (like in the good old days) we'd be much happier about the situation.

You don't have to, you can choose to ignore political news much as, I imagine, you choose to ignore celebrity news.

The reality is that, for whatever reason, you choose to pay attention.

Well this does directly affect his career field.... not to mention everything else.

Same reason I pay attention to anything even vaguely Second Amendment related.