Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Testify wrote:

Sigvatr wrote:
Oh wait, you mean like Bioware adding additional endings after a massive outburst by their fan base? The same Bioware that's part of EA, the biggest publisher around? The same Bioware that maintains a huge forum with regular developer feedback.

Making something that fans want and then selling it to them, that counts as "caring" to you?

The DLC was free. Get your facts straight. And even if they sold it: yes! That's how a company should work. Produce the stuff people want and you will sell more.

While there are (and were) threads like this, such as threads asking for AdMech or non-Cadian guard, these are in the overwealming minority. You can't expect GW to listen to them when they're drowned out 10 to 1 by butthurt and "pls give us free models".

Red Herring, not related to any post yet made on this matter.

 Kingsley wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:
[I don't buy GW products anymore, and I haven't for a while now, but they'll never know why I stopped buying. With that in mind, they can do an endless amount of different things, but unless it addresses why I'm not buying their products anymore, they still won't be able to fix the issue.

You could solve that problem by writing a letter to GW and explaining why you don't buy anymore. It's possible that your input won't be taken in to account, but if many people all stop buying for the same reasons and complain, change could result.

In my opinion 1 or 1000 or 10,000 letters wouldn't see GW change the current course they seem to be set upon.

Any letter, regardless of eloquence, logic and fact (from writers perspective) would just be wasted.

'I am not buying x' 'I am buying x' would have equal standing and would get the same response. Stock words or none at all.

10,000 people decrying, for example, a ruleset still doesn't mean anything, they had to have brought it or played it at some time, GW's job is done.

 Mr. Burning wrote:

 Kingsley wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:
[I don't buy GW products anymore, and I haven't for a while now, but they'll never know why I stopped buying. With that in mind, they can do an endless amount of different things, but unless it addresses why I'm not buying their products anymore, they still won't be able to fix the issue.

You could solve that problem by writing a letter to GW and explaining why you don't buy anymore. It's possible that your input won't be taken in to account, but if many people all stop buying for the same reasons and complain, change could result.

In my opinion 1 or 1000 or 10,000 letters wouldn't see GW change the current course they seem to be set upon.

Any letter, regardless of eloquence, logic and fact (from writers perspective) would just be wasted.

'I am not buying x' 'I am buying x' would have equal standing and would get the same response. Stock words or none at all.

10,000 people decrying, for example, a ruleset still doesn't mean anything, they had to have brought it or played it at some time, GW's job is done.

Exalted.

 Testify wrote:
But if you don't like how they act, don't buy from them.

And do you know what? I don't buy anything from GW. And I, like a number of other people now, rather than try to get people to play GW's games, tell them about other games like Infinity, PP, FoW, etc. Walking past my local GW every now and then over the last few years and it seems to get emptier and emptier as more of the older players leave and stop recruiting younger players.

Gaming clubs that used to be pretty much GW games only now have healthy groups playing other games - I think it was chormedog who said that the two gaming groups that he has historically attended have switched in the last 2 years to play a lot of Infinity. My local gaming store mostly has people playing card games - they very rarely have GW game events.

Once you hit a critical mass of players advocating other games you see things change more and more quickly. GW is doing nothing to stop people leave, and doing nothing to leave them feeling like they want to promote GW, and indeed are leaving them like they want to make sure people stear clear of GW.

Thought id throw in my 2 cents and offer we do kind of have this. Or at least someone got the local GW to sign onto the county wargaming board, to the point the 3 staffers are all acounted for and the store has their own sub-forum. Admitidly its mostly things like "game/event on this date" but theres still a smattering of "what does this mean" and what have you.

I don't blame GW for not having a community rep. Imagine having to listen to somebody moan done the telephone about a certain Grey Knights character, or being forced to break up a flame war between two geeks arguing about Batman.

If it were me, I'd want to rip somebody's lungs out. This is one decision that GW has got spot on.

Testify wrote:
Nice to know personal attacks on dakka are allowed against anyone who disagrees with the neverending torrent of beard-rage.

Testify wrote:Not buying something signals your dislike for the market. Or did they not teach you that in whatever arts class you attended?

Nice to know hypocrisy is rampant.



Please learn how to argue, for the sake of good discussion. Because what i said is true: you can't argue to save your life. Red herrings, strawmen and irrelevant arguments disguised as relevant. Really? It's insulting to those who wants a good discussion.

 SilverMK2 wrote:

GW is doing nothing to stop people leave

And thats a very positive thing if you ask me. ALL other competitors say thanks and me as a consumer that is more concerned with the overall health of this industry rather than GW share prices or profits also say Thanks GW! There's always a positive twist on the things most consider negative and in this case we don't even need to twist that much, it's all good.

The way I see it;

Little joe is introduced to wargaming by the mainstream GW, after a few starters and armies he starts to check alternatives, GW does nothing to keep him entertained, he goes elsewhere and is now a more informed wargamer. Win Win for Little Joe. It's not a linear thing because some are so into GW that are quite defensive/ passionate about it... well if it works for them then its OK.

All in all, GW got some money from Little Joe but is more interested on little Stuart now... while other companies will most likely get Big Joe disposable income in the future.

And strangely, all the largest tournaments and conventions in the United States are still for 40k......

Well isn't that peculiar.

I still think its funny when people so adamantly compare privateer or (hahahhah) Corvus belli to GW. GW is larger than the next 4 largest manufacturing companies combined.

Since when do wifebeaters sit down and have a chat with their spouse about how they're feeling?

 cincydooley wrote:
And strangely, all the largest tournaments and conventions in the United States are still for 40k......

Well isn't that peculiar.

I still think its funny when people so adamantly compare privateer or (hahahhah) Corvus belli to GW. GW is larger than the next 4 largest manufacturing companies combined.

Then you look at how many less GW tournament and how many more other company tournament have grown in the last ten years. You see a trend. Then you look a the size of history wargames and see how small they GW and the others really are.

 cincydooley wrote:
And strangely, all the largest tournaments and conventions in the United States are still for 40k......

Well isn't that peculiar.

Not particularly, no. Given how long they were the only fish in the pool, it's not at all peculiar that the others haven't just taken over overnight.

It also has no bearing whatsoever on the comparative popularity of those other games... All it shows is that 40K has a larger tournament scene than other games. Which means nothing more than that more people are running tournaments for 40K than for other games.

Even just within the GW scene, tournament attendance proves nothing about sales. For a time, LOTR was outselling WHFB. But how many LOTR tournaments did you see?

They don't manage the store Facebook pages very well either. Any post that is a complaint or mentions other sites/ products gets your post removed. I had a post removed from my local stores page for mentioning Warhammer World and Forge World o.0

My cousin got a 24 hour ban from posting on there for asking for clarification on what can and cannot be posted!

pitboy2710 wrote:
They don't manage the store Facebook pages very well either. Any post that is a complaint or mentions other sites/ products gets your post removed. I had a post removed from my local stores page for mentioning Warhammer World and Forge World o.0

My cousin got a 24 hour ban from posting on there for asking for clarification on what can and cannot be posted!

I got removed when 6ed allies charts etc came to light and said about guard/ nids for genestealer cult when someone asked why nids couldnt ally.

 doc1234 wrote:

pitboy2710 wrote:
They don't manage the store Facebook pages very well either. Any post that is a complaint or mentions other sites/ products gets your post removed. I had a post removed from my local stores page for mentioning Warhammer World and Forge World o.0

My cousin got a 24 hour ban from posting on there for asking for clarification on what can and cannot be posted!

I got removed when 6ed allies charts etc came to light and said about guard/ nids for genestealer cult when someone asked why nids couldnt ally.

Sounds reasonable to me. Facebook pages are not for spammy discussion. It is for dissemination of store information, advertising the store and store events. If the facebook page was just rife with harmless chatter it defeats the purpose and makes it hard to use as well as spamming up newsfeeds.

I am on 2 GW store 'like' subscribes on facebook and they are fairly useful in telling me when products get in, events in the store and openings/closings. If there was any more on my feed, it would be annoying and defeat the purpose and then I would need to not follow it.

Discussing other stores? Go to those companies facebook walls.
Discussing other GW products? Go to those companies websites or facebook pages.
Discussing rules? not appropriate for the store's wall.
Being a general malcontent or complaining about corporate decisons? Not useful on a store wall as they cannot take your feedback and do anything with it, and they shouldn't deal with pointless comments.

I am glad they ban and remove worthless comments from the facebook pages. Makes them useful as a resource opposed to trashy and wasteful.

The reaction to the guy who advertised a job on here, with no connection to GW whatsoever, tells you everything about the community's relation to GW.

nkelsch wrote:

 doc1234 wrote:

pitboy2710 wrote:
They don't manage the store Facebook pages very well either. Any post that is a complaint or mentions other sites/ products gets your post removed. I had a post removed from my local stores page for mentioning Warhammer World and Forge World o.0

My cousin got a 24 hour ban from posting on there for asking for clarification on what can and cannot be posted!

I got removed when 6ed allies charts etc came to light and said about guard/ nids for genestealer cult when someone asked why nids couldnt ally.

Sounds reasonable to me. Facebook pages are not for spammy discussion. It is for dissemination of store information, advertising the store and store events. If the facebook page was just rife with harmless chatter it defeats the purpose and makes it hard to use as well as spamming up newsfeeds.

I am on 2 GW store 'like' subscribes on facebook and they are fairly useful in telling me when products get in, events in the store and openings/closings. If there was any more on my feed, it would be annoying and defeat the purpose and then I would need to not follow it.

Discussing other stores? Go to those companies facebook walls.
Discussing other GW products? Go to those companies websites or facebook pages.
Discussing rules? not appropriate for the store's wall.
Being a general malcontent or complaining about corporate decisons? Not useful on a store wall as they cannot take your feedback and do anything with it, and they shouldn't deal with pointless comments.

I am glad they ban and remove worthless comments from the facebook pages. Makes them useful as a resource opposed to trashy and wasteful.

Actually they had first posted "why would any army need to ally with nids wouldnt make sense" after someone asked. Merely making a fluffy example of why. Plus youd be surprised, as i said earlier this is the same store that interacts with the local game community via a local forum for the area.

The GW company page can't be posted on. My local stores page actively ask for people to post tips and offer advise to other people on the page and to post images of what you have been working on.

But nowhere on the page is a there anything saying what can and cannot be posted leading to many people getting bans and not knowing why.

All comments and posts that i, my relatives, friends and other people who post there have always been polite since i have been frequenting the page.

My cousins post that resulted in a ban was asking for clarification so we could all avoid having post removed in the future. He asked politely and received a ban for his trouble

These posts and comments do not clutter the feed. They don't even show on other peoples walls. the only thing that gets shown is posts by GW themselves, If you actually look at the layout of the GW pages the recent posts is a small area on the right of the screen. The last 4 posts are visible and can be expanded if you want to read them.

Posts that have been removed include basic modeling tips using filling plaster, cork and platicard. I had a picture removed due to a hazy out of focus and barely in frame bottle of Vallejo paint in it.

 doc1234 wrote:


Actually they had first posted "why would any army need to ally with nids wouldnt make sense" after someone asked. Merely making a fluffy example of why. Plus youd be surprised, as i said earlier this is the same store that interacts with the local game community via a local forum for the area.

All the GWs and FLGS around me have 'clubs' or communities who have forums. That is a much better place for 'discussion.

You wouldn't complain to the staff in your local GW about these things, I don't get why you think it's okay to harass the poor bastard who has to run the facebook page.

Who here thinks its ok to harass the Facebook guy?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Who here thinks its ok to harass the Facebook guy?

Evidently, well meaning conversation and genuine questions are 'harassment' these days.

Sorry Fafnir, I can't hear you over all the straw!

 Fafnir wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Who here thinks its ok to harass the Facebook guy?

Evidently, well meaning conversation and genuine questions are 'harassment' these days.

Harassment doesn't equate to abuse. I know what it's like to be working for someone and have people say stupid things like that to you. I also have no idea why you think GW are somehow worse than other countries. You're pissed off they don't have a guy spouting corporate bs all day just to keep you happy? For perspective, Gas companies in the UK outright lie about price rises in a poorly-regulated market. The fact that they have people on tv blaming the increases on the price of wholesale gas doesn't mean jack gak.

 Fafnir wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Who here thinks its ok to harass the Facebook guy?

Evidently, well meaning conversation and genuine questions are 'harassment' these days.

Let's not pretend that is all that was going on.

There were claims from a few posters here on Dakka that the BecomeLegendaryNA guy was spamming and/or "using the community". There were also people who even after the guy explained he had no say over policy, etc continued to pester him about GW stuff being "overpriced".

There was indeed some genuine questioning and conversation going on. But there were also people who, as is usually the case when a company official posts in a third party setting, chose to vent their frustrations with the company on that individual.

 Testify wrote:
I also have no idea why you think GW are somehow worse than other countries.

Wait... wait... hold on. What?

*filters thread to see only Fafnir's posts*

Umm... where did he say GW is worse than other countries? I've just searched this thread for the words 'country', 'countries' and 'nation' and found it once in heartserenade's post (where he used the word as an example of hating the government/loving your country).


The rest of your post is a bunch of nice big red fish but this... I must have missed it. Where did Fafnir say that he thinks GW are worse than other countries?

 Kanluwen wrote:
Let's not pretend that is all that was going on.

And the let the record also show that I was one of the first to say "Give the guy a break, he's just doing his job".

I meant "companies".

Ok then.

*re-filters thread*

Nope. He didn't say that either.

You know what a "strawman" is, right? I don't have to break out the long-winded explanation?

 insaniak wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
And strangely, all the largest tournaments and conventions in the United States are still for 40k......

Well isn't that peculiar.

Not particularly, no. Given how long they were the only fish in the pool, it's not at all peculiar that the others haven't just taken over overnight.

It also has no bearing whatsoever on the comparative popularity of those other games... All it shows is that 40K has a larger tournament scene than other games. Which means nothing more than that more people are running tournaments for 40K than for other games.

Even just within the GW scene, tournament attendance proves nothing about sales. For a time, LOTR was outselling WHFB. But how many LOTR tournaments did you see?

I hear what you're saying, but the fact that the GW tournament scene continues to grow is indicative of at least some growth in the player base. And let's not pretend that people playing in these growing tournaments aren't using new models. Plenty of people are running necron-air. Gotta buy some models for that.

And it's not like Privateer is any sort of new. That company has been around less than GW, sure, but they've still been around for more than 10 years. Do we see MULTIPLE very large tournaments where Warmahordes is the primary focus? No, we don't. And that ruleset is much better for tournament play!

Sure it's anecdotal, but the major 40k events at adepticon this year all sold out within the first day of registration. I don't think this can be discounted.....

 cincydooley wrote:

And it's not like Privateer is any sort of new. That company has been around less than GW, sure, but they've still been around for more than 10 years. Do we see MULTIPLE very large tournaments where Warmahordes is the primary focus? No, we don't. And that ruleset is much better for tournament play!

Warmachine Weekend, Lock and Load, DieCon, TempleCon, AdeptiCon... I can keep going if you like.