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I'm making my first steps towards building an IG army. starting at 500pts; later on I'll go up to 1,000 (by adding LR variants and a Vendetta). Here's a tentative list:

HQ:
CCS, 70pts - Vox, 3 Snipers. Role: issuing commands and sniper support.

TROOPS #1:
PCS, 145pts - Lieutenant w/Melta Bombs, Commissar, Vox, 3 Flamers, Chimera. Role: grabbing far objectives and guarding them.
Infantry 'Blob' (2 Squads), 160pts - Commissar, Vox, 2 Autocannons. Role: grabbing near objectives and anti-infantry support.

TROOPS #2:
Veteran Squad, 125pts - Vox, Lascannon, 2 Plasmas. Role: anti-armour support.

Total 45 soldiers, 1 Chimera.

What do you think?

Hey, welcome to the Guard. Polish your flashlight, keep your boots clean, and never retreat from battle!

The list you built features two different setups wound into one. It may be OK to learn the lay of the land, but ultimately it won't be that competitive. Don't mix and match mechanized and footslogging elements, as you'll be providing clear targets for enemy AT and AI weapons to shoot at using maximum effectiveness.

Some stuff I can see in there is that you over-upgraded the platoon you took. A Commissar at 500 pts is pretty wasteful, as is a platoon, which is just a bit too points heavy for the 500 pt range. Also, plasma guns on the veterans? Good if you expect to see some Termies, but quite costly at this level. If you want to keep them, get full plasmavets for mobility (3 plasmas, no LC).

A Vox network is OK, but what are you going to use it for? Don't go for FRFSRF, you don't have enough models to take advantage of that. BiD for Autocannons isn't the best way to use the order, and FomT seems to be your best bet, but drop the PCS Vox-they won't be able to order anything since there are only two infantry units that can take orders anyway, which is well within the CCS's capabilities.

Talking about the CCS, snipers aren't ideal either, being mainly good against MCs/high T units which you won't see often with a 500 pts limit. Consider upgrading to meltaguns (if going mech) or getting flamers (at 500 pts, 3-4 plasma guns become overly expensive).

The PCS doesn't have enough bodies to grab an objective and hold it indefinitely, even if you use cover. They can be useful for that purpose late game, but that's it.

Here is a sample mech list:
HQ
CCS (3 meltaguns) - 80 pts
Chimera (ML,HHF) - 55 pts

Troops
Vets (2 meltaguns) - 90 pts
Chimera (ML, HHF) - 55 pts
Vets (2 meltaguns) - 90 pts
Chimera (ML, HHF) - 55 pts

Heavy Support
Griffon or Hydra - 75 pts

Not the strongest list, but you get the idea-all AV12, no infantry in the open.

i like Hedkrakka's list for mech but if you decide to go footsloggin try and pick up a primaris psyker at this low points values it will be tough for your opponent to recover from a blow that knocks half a squad a troops from one shot

Hmmm... Weren't Mech lists nerfed a bit in 6E (or so tell me the local wargamers here in Israel)? And isn't a Hydra ineffective against anything but Flyers (do you get a lot of Flyers at 500pts anyway?).

But good point about choosing between Mech and Footsloggers. So let's whip up two lists and see which is better in your opinion:

500pts Footsloggers (AKA Guardsmen Spam) IG List:

HQ:
CCS, 65pts - Vox, 2 Flamers

Troops #1: Infantry Platoon
PCS, 40pts - 2 Flamers
'Blob' (Squads #1 and #2 combined), 125pts - Vox, 2 Meltas

Troops #2: Infantry Platoon
PCS, 40pts - 2 Flamers
'Blob' (Squads #1 and #2 combined), 125pts - Vox, 2 Meltas

Troops #3: Veteran Platoon
Veteran Squad, 100pts - Vox, 2 Plasmas

Total 500pts, 65 soldiers.

---

500pts Mechanized IG List:

HQ:
CCS, 80pts - 3 Meltas
Chimera, 55pts - Multilaser, Heavy Flamer

Troops #1: Veteran Squad
Veteran Squad, 90pts - 2 Meltas
Chimera, 55pts - Multilaser, Heavy Flamer

Troops #2: Veteran Squad
Veteran Squad, 90pts - 2 Meltas
Chimera, 55pts - Multilaser, Heavy Flamer

Heavy Support:
Griffon, 75pts

Total 55 points, 25 soldiers, 3 Chimeras, Griffon

What do you think? Would these lists work well under 6E? Which one is better?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Leaning towards the footslogger list...

Mech lists weren't nerfed at all, let's just say that they have changed. I believe people overreacted to the introduction of HP-now mech is more vulnerable to lower S weapons due to the real possibility of being glanced to death, but you can keep moving and firing even if you get glanced. I'd call that a bargain.
And don't underestimate the parking lot; there's so much AV12 in such a list that your opponent simply won't have enough to deal with them. Get lots of cheap, redundant vehicles, and you're set.

Concerning your lists: I believe you made no change at all to my mech sample list, and it should do fine (I would have picked a Griffon as well). In the platoon list, you really should consider how effective two BS3 meltaguns will be in a footslogging list-You'll simply struggle to get close to the enemy, especially if he brings blasts and rapid firing weapons. Considering that footslogging meltas are your only dedicated AT on that list, you simply won't be able to cover enough ground. Footslogging meltas are good when you're trying to discourage the enemy from getting close, i.e. if you're fielding several HW teams in your blob, but usually better only in larger points limits where you can also filed alternate forms of AT. I would suggest dropping (at least some) meltas and getting Lascannons or some other form of AT.

There is no "better" list-it all depends on your preference and aptitude-som people just tend to be naturally inclined to command mech lists, others feel better having a lot of men, rather than metal cans, to throw around. My advice would be to try both (500 pts lists shouldn't cost you much) and decide accordingly, then expand from there.

I think I'll use both lists in different games. After all, soldiers are soldiers; I have already bought 2 battleforces (1 Cadian and 1 Catachan) and a Chimera, so I already have most of the troops. All I have to buy now are two more Chimeras and a Griffon for the Mech list.

In the footslogger list, I'll also replace the two meltas of each infantry "blob" with one plasma and replace the veteran squad with a Heavy Weapon Team with either Missile Launchers or Lascannons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, let's look on some of my local to-be opponents here in central Israel:

One is Dark Eldar, 500pts -

TROOPS
10 wyches
Hekatrix with Phantasm granade luancher and Agonizer
Raider

10 wyches
Hekatrix with Phantasm granade luancher and blast pistol
Raider

Heavy support
Raveger

The other is Orks, 500pts -

HQ
Warboss (120) warbike
5 Tankbustas (75)
10 'Ard Boyz (100)
10 Gretchin (40)
+1 Runtherd
3 Warbuggies (160)

Would both of my lists be effective against them?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Updated 500pts Footsloggers (AKA Guardsmen Spam) IG List:

HQ:
CCS, 65pts - Vox, 2 Plasmas

Troops #1: Infantry Platoon
PCS, 45pts - 2 Flamers
'Blob' (Squads #1 and #2 combined), 115pts - Vox, Grenade Launcher
HWS, 115pts - 3 Lascannons - main long-range AT unit

Troops #2: Infantry Platoon
PCS, 45pts - 2 Flamers
'Blob' (Squads #1 and #2 combined), 115pts - Vox, Grenade Launcher

Total 500pts, 61 soldiers.

How does it look now?

Do NOT give statlines for units in the forum, GW goes crazy if you do. I suggest you edit your post.

I strongly suggest you refrain from switching the Veterans for a HWS, since they're just too prone to ID and have poor Ld. To top it off, they can't take Voxes for BiD, FomT or GBitF. Considering you have no other AT, this can be hazardous. I suggest distributing the LCs to your IS within the platoons. It's cheaper (you can get 4 instead of 3 for less points!), can take advantage of a Vox, and is more difficult to ID because of wound allocation. Flamers are also usually better buys than GL, and if you have two battleforces, you already have more than enough flamers available.

Your math is off IIRC. 2 IS with a Vox and a single GL should cost 110 pts. A HWS with three Lascannons should cost 105 pts. A CCS with Vox and 2 plasmas should cost 85 pts. A PCS with 2 flamers should cost 40 pts. You should check the points costs in your codex.

Fortunately, both of your opponents are bringing weak lists and you should be able to take them out easily. Some tactics for you:

DE
Footslogging list: You won't have many problems, you have enough flamers to rape charging Wyches, and enough AT to pop their transports before that. The enemy Ravager has nothing to shoot at (yes, it will vaporize 1.67 Guardsmen per turn, but you can live with that) and you should have a decisive advantage right from the start. Just watch out for Nightfighting.

Mech list: This is a bit more involved.The Wyches will be useless but your opponent is bringing five DL, which may be quite dangerous to your transports. You have a lot of Multilaser shots to hopefully destroy the Raiders, and Meltas if they get too close. Once a Raider drops, the Griffon will make mincemeat of the Wyches inside. The problem is that if the enemy is content to sit back and run from you, your meltaguns won't be able to catch them. Focus on the objectives and sit tight, and you should be fine.

Orks
Footslogging list: His buggies and Tankbustas will be close to useless, and his Grots will probably be sitting on a backfield objective. 10 'Ard Boyz are no match for your Autocannons or good old massed flashlight fire, and all you need to watch for is the Warboss. He can't join the Buggies, so he's probably hanging out with the Boyz or by himself-in the first case he's slow, so just pummel him like any other Ork, and in the latter case he's just got no ablative wounds, use FomT if you have to. Lascannons or Autocannons are the go-to in this case.

Mech list: The Griffon will beat the crap out of both the Boyz and the Warboss unless they manage to get close. Prioritize your targets. If the Tankbustas get in range, just shoot them with Multilasers, and they'll probably run before they get in Rokkit range. And tell your friend to bring Lootas next time, they're infinitely better. Same goes for the Buggies; use your range advantage to thin them down.

If you're willing to tailor your list, I would suggest you get Autocannons rather than Lascannons against those lists, since neither has any vehicle above AV11. For the mech list, you may want to swap some meltaguns for flamers as well, since you don't need them to kill the vehicles or to punch through MEQ/TEQ armor.

Good luck!

omg, nice topic! Am planing on doing an IG ally blob for my other armies (BA, CSM, daemons) and this list has given me loads of insight on how to build a small points list for IG. any hope of getting a decent ally detatchment list for mainly camping own end objectives while my main detatchement takes the fight to the enemy table half.

Sorry for the stat-lines; I copy-pasted them from a local (Israeli) site and didn't notice their excess deatils. edited.

My updated Mech list:

HQ:
CCS, 80pts - 2 Plasmas
Chimera, 55pts - Multilaser, Heavy Flamer

Troops #1: Veteran Squad
Veteran Squad, 90pts - 2 Meltas
Chimera, 55pts - Multilaser, Heavy Flamer

Troops #2: Veteran Squad
Veteran Squad, 90pts - 2 Meltas
Chimera, 55pts - Multilaser, Heavy Flamer

Heavy Support:
Griffon, 75pts

Total 500 points, 25 soldiers, 3 Chimeras, Griffon

Updated Footslogger List:

HQ:
CCS, 70pts - Vox, 3 Plasmas

Troops #1: Infantry Platoon
PCS, 45pts - 3 Flamers
'Blob' (Squads #1 and #2 combined), 145pts - Vox, 2 Lascannons

Troops #2: Infantry Platoon
PCS, 45pts - 3 Flamers
'Blob' (Squads #1 and #2 combined), 145pts - Vox, 2 Lascannons

Total 480pts, 55 soldiers. Any idea what to do with the remaining 20 points?

What do you think?

The point costs are off again. A CCS w/3 Plasmas and Vox costs 100 pts, while 2 IS w/one Vox and 2 LC costs 135 pts. The footslogger list all adds up to 460 pts.

What to do with the points you saved depends on how you want to play it. If you wish to counter your opponents' lists, I would replace the LCs by ACs to get a new IS w/AC. If you want to keep the LCs and the plasma guns, I would suggest just throwing some upgrades around, this is a legit case of leftover points. Maybe add special weapons to the platoons-2 meltaguns for each platoon or 2 flamers and 2 plasmas would fill the points limit nicely, and you can also experiment with other combinations, or get meltabombs, krak grenades, improve your CCS... Anything you want, really, but I'd go for more special weapons.

I see no big problems with the mech list, although I like to bring more meltas just in case some get destroyed. Give your list a try and adjust as your experience in your local metagame develops.

Updated Footslogger List:

HQ:
CCS, 100pts - Vox, 3 Plasmas

Troops #1: Infantry Platoon
PCS, 45pts - 3 Flamers
'Blob' (Squads #1 and #2 combined), 135pts - Vox, 2 Meltas, 2 Lascannons

Troops #2: Infantry Platoon
PCS, 45pts - 3 Flamers
'Blob' (Squads #1 and #2 combined), 135pts - Vox, 2 Meltas, 2 Lascannons

Total 500pts, 55 soldiers.

What do you think?

Just to note, mech lists have had a nerf, but they're still better than foot lists.

55 men isn't that much for guard when you consider that they will run like little girls if someone looks at them. The metal boxes drastically help them to stay alive. Make them mech and you'll see how much more survivable they are.

The blob squads are actually worse for you here, your opponent essentially has 2 targets. They're going to get swept just as easily as the 10 man squads too. I recommend going to a MSU approach and keeping them in their 10 man squads.
Your opponent would have 4 targets to chose from. That makes it a lot harder for him to neutralise your fire power quickly.

I'm not sure you need the voxes, 4 LC shots should be enough to deal with any armor you come aross at 500pts, the voxes could be another plasma on your CCS to help with the MEQ threat.

Also, guard have the amazing ability to bring AV:14 to the game at the 500pts value. You're ignoring this and actually playing to a weakness. Lots of men get shot up very fast.
It can be risky but revolving your list around a demolisher can really devastate opponents who aren't prepared to deal with Av:14. And trust me, it's not easy to prepare for AV:14 at the 500pts range.
Similarly, a LRBT while your list doesn't need to revolve around it, will add some scary AV:14 to the mix that people will fear.

Eh, I am a foot-slogger and have done fine with it. It is just easier to make a 'gunline' list and sit back in cover with a foot list, while a mech list is a better attack list. You can switch roles and make it work, but I feel these are the natural strengths for each.

I would also like to point out that I like to give my BS 4 guys my main AT if possible, as I feel stuff like flamers are wasting that precious BS 4. Here is an example of what I would do for a gunline list at 500pts, done two ways.

CCS - 70pts
LC

#1 PPC - 50pts
4x Sniper Rifles/ 2x SR, AC/ 4x Flamers

#1 Platoon - 100pts (blobbed)
AC, Flamer, Commissar

#1 Platoon - 65pts (blobbed)
AC, Flamer

#2 PPC - 50pts
4x Sniper Rifles/ 2x SR, AC/ 4x Flamers

#2 Platoon - 100pts (blobbed)
AC, Flamer, Commissar

#2 Platoon - 65pts (blobbed)
AC, Flamer
500pts
Notes:
I hate not making use of the rest of the CCS, but the Commissars mean your blobs will stay around AND increase thier LD for getting Orders, so the re-roll from the Voxes may not be needed. The PPCs give you tactical flexibility point-wise (if your an attacker or want to sit back and snipe). The Snipers in-mass with a 'FomT' or 'BiD' can help take out MCs, Light armor, or cover save dependant troops. It also gives you something for high 2+ armor saves. I like sometimes putting a AC in for further firepower if the PPC is a dedicated light AT unit due to the Str 7 shots. The blobs have the AC if you want to camp or the Flamer to assault, with 3 Characters each for challenges.

CCS - 120pts
2x Plasma, LC, Camo

Vets - 165pts
3x Plasma, LC, Sentries

Vets - 165pts
3x Plasma, LC, Sentries

Aegis Defence Line - 50pts
500pts
Notes:
This is a 'true' gunline list, as you sit back and shoot the heck out of your foe at range behind the ADL. All of your guys are BS 4 and have 3+ cover saves. To make it sicker, you can still issue two Orders a turn, and 'FomT' and 'BiD' should be your most common. You do not want to move, you want them to come to you, which gets more and more dangerous for your enemy as they enter Rapid Fire range. If your forced to leave, stick to cover and keep foes at bay, preferably 10-12" away. Make them charge you and keep Sentries in mind, as it gives you defensive grenades. Your Rapid Fire weapons should also hopefully make them pay for charging you. Remember you can not charge if you fire a Rapid Fire weapon (lasguns and Plasma). As an option, you can replace a CCS Plasma for a Regimental Banner for Moral re-rolls if your concerned about leadership.

Good luck.

Aren't 10-man Veteran squads a bit too fragile when outside of vehicles? Also, aren't commissars useful in blobs to prevent them from running away?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Griddlelol wrote:

Also, guard have the amazing ability to bring AV:14 to the game at the 500pts value. You're ignoring this and actually playing to a weakness. Lots of men get shot up very fast.
It can be risky but revolving your list around a demolisher can really devastate opponents who aren't prepared to deal with Av:14. And trust me, it's not easy to prepare for AV:14 at the 500pts range.
Similarly, a LRBT while your list doesn't need to revolve around it, will add some scary AV:14 to the mix that people will fear.

An LRBT in a 500-points list? That sounds SCARY! Maybe I should try it out in my Mech list instead of the Griffon and some of the Vet squad upgrades...

I think Griddlelol means you shouldn't use combined squads on your platoon IS's. His point is another way to handle this points level, and I agree with him that mech is better, but if you footslog, you still can use combined squads-your Voxes are actually mostly for reliable success in GBitF rather than other orders, which are a bonus in this case. Yes, they will run, but you can bring them back. And by the way, remember that BS3 TL is better than BS4, so if your guys aren't running, you always have that.

Commissars are terrible IMO, especially so in 500 pts. They cost a lot of points, they don't really do much except make you rerollable Ld9 and Stubborn. Their combat ability is grossly overrated. Stubborn is useless, you want to get clear from combat so you can shoot the enemy rather than stab him with pathetic knives and bayonets. Ld9 is good for orders, yes, but even with Summary Execution it's not much better than rerollable Ld8 you get from the Sergeant+Vox. He is very easy to ID and can't hold his own in a challenge even if upgraded. Just pass on Commissars.

You can fit a LRBT into a 500 pt list, but check with the other players first. In some metas, AV14 is not allowed in 500 pt games. And if you can and do bring it, remember that all it takes is a meltagun and you're dead, and you're passing up many AT options yourself. Although my meta allows AV14 (and there's a lot of Land Raiders being used at that level), I never brought a Russ to a 500 pt game and never regretted it.

Sample list based on LRBT:

HQ
CCS (AC, 2 plasma guns) - 90 pts

Troops
Veterans (3 plasma guns, LC) - 130 pts
Veterans (3 plasma guns, LC) - 130 pts

Heavy Support
LRBT - 150 pts

That's the best I could come up with. The LRBT has the big strong pie plate for power armor and worse, the plasma guns take care of pesky Termies and you have some ranged AT. However, God have mercy on you if your opponent decides to return the favor and bring some AV14 on his own. It's also the worst list in terms of troop survivability (small numbers+no transport...ouch)-remember you still need to capture objectives most of the time. This list is cumbersome, and if your opponent manages to destroy your Veterans and has some guys sitting on a home objective, good luck getting there by Turn 5 to draw the game. But in terms of firepower, I concede that this list is the best. You decide.

BTW, the new footslogger list also looks OK.

Edit: Grammatical correction.

Hedkrakka wrote:

HQ
CCS ( 1 Plasma, 2 Melta) - 80 pts

Troops
Veterans (3 Melta) - 100 pts
Veterans (3 Melta) - 100 pts

Heavy Support
LR Demolisher - 165 pts

ADL

500pts

I updated Heldakka's list. Frankly I'd rather make it mech, but this is pretty nasty. You have a ton of AP2, a ton of Str:8 and a demolisher which will make anything cry, plus with the ADL it'll soak up so much fire-power, and be protected against deep strikers. It's really hard to make a mech list with a Russ, but as a previous poster put up, you can fit in a Griffin with a bunch of plasma vets, which is pretty nasty too.


Edit: The obvious weakness of this list is that it can't move very well. But note "very well" you can still plough forward using the demolisher as cover if you have to. Against other lists which rely on close/mid range (SW, GK, Orks and any CC army) this list will really worry them.

Three optional footslogger lists:

Option #1:

HQ:
CCS, 100pts - Vox, 3 Plasmas

Troops #1: Infantry Platoon
PCS, 45pts - 3 Flamers
'Blob' (Squads #1 and #2 combined), 155pts - Vox, 2 Flamers, 2 Lascannons

Troops #2: Infantry Platoon
PCS, 45pts - 3 Flamers
'Blob' (Squads #1 and #2 combined), 155pts - Vox, 2 Flamers, 2 Lascannons

Total 500pts, 55 soldiers.

Option #2:

HQ:
CCS, 100pts - Vox, 3 Plasmas

Troops #1: Infantry Platoon
PCS, 30pts
'Blob' (Squads #1 and #2 combined), 145pts - Vox, 2 Lascannons

Troops #2: Infantry Platoon
PCS, 30pts
'Blob' (Squads #1 and #2 combined), 145pts - Vox, 2 Lascannons

Aegis Defence Line, 50pts

Total 500pts, 55 soldiers.

Option #3:

HQ:
CCS, 75pts - Vox, 2 Meltas

Troops #1: Infantry Platoon
PCS, 30pts
'Blob' (Squads #1 and #2 combined), 180pts - Commissar, Vox, 2 Lascannons

Troops #2: Infantry Platoon
PCS, 30pts
'Blob' (Squads #1 and #2 combined), 180pts - Commissar, Vox, 2 Lascannons

Total 495pts, 57 soldiers.

---

Which would be the most effective?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Two Mech options:

Option #1:

HQ:
CCS, 80pts - 2 Plasmas
Chimera, 55pts - Multilaser, Heavy Flamer

Troops #1: Veteran Squad
Veteran Squad, 85pts - Plasma
Chimera, 55pts - Multilaser, Heavy Flamer

Troops #2: Veteran Squad
Veteran Squad, 85pts - Plasma
Chimera, 55pts - Multilaser, Heavy Flamer

Heavy Support:
Griffon, 75pts - Hunter-Killer Missile

Total 500 points, 25 soldiers, 3 Chimeras, Griffon

Option #2:

HQ:
CCS, 80pts - 2 Plasmas
Chimera, 55pts - Multilaser, Heavy Flamer

Troops #1: Veteran Squad
Veteran Squad, 90pts - 2 Meltas
Chimera, 55pts - Multilaser, Heavy Flamer

Troops #2: Veteran Squad
Veteran Squad, 90pts - 2 Meltas
Chimera, 55pts - Multilaser, Heavy Flamer

Heavy Support:
Griffon, 75pts

Total 500 points, 25 soldiers, 3 Chimeras, Griffon

---

Which would be more effective?

Hedkrakka wrote:
I think Griddlelol means you shouldn't use combined squads on your platoon IS's. His point is another way to handle this points level, and I agree with him that mech is better, but if you footslog, you still can use combined squads-your Voxes are actually mostly for reliable success in GBitF rather than other orders, which are a bonus in this case. Yes, they will run, but you can bring them back. And by the way, remember that BS3 TL is better than BS4, so if your guys aren't running, you always have that.

Commissars are terrible IMO, especially so in 500 pts. They cost a lot of points, they don't really do much except make you rerollable Ld9 and Stubborn. Their combat ability is grossly overrated. Stubborn is useless, you want to get clear from combat so you can shoot the enemy rather than stab him with pathetic knives and bayonets. Ld9 is good for orders, yes, but even with Summary Execution it's not much better than rerollable Ld8 you get from the Sergeant+Vox. He is very easy to ID and can't hold his own in a challenge even if upgraded. Just pass on Commissars.

As soon as his 20 man blob are crushed by a sweeping advance at that Init 3 by a 5 man Assault squad, he will wish he had a Commissar and Stubborn. As soon as he has a Chimera blow up and kill all of his Guard in it in one shot, or the few that are left run out of that 12" Order range of the CCS, he will see mech doesn't mean your guys are invincible and are really just as fragile. All you do in mech is take away bolters. In his foot list, if he plays against a smart player or someone fielding a sniper rifle that kills his commander or CCS squad, he will watch helplessly as his men run off of the board because he has no one to issue 'GBitF' after they take 25% casualties. The Commissars means those blobs stay around, and you use 'GBitF' as a last resort... and if your in Order Range. Heck, he might as well consider a Regimental banner at that point, as you can use that re-roll first.

Every lists have risks, you give and take. But a good player mitigates his weaknesses and plays to his strengths. Your /vastly/ overestimating Guard to 'run away and get back to shooting'. They do not have ATSKNF. They are not Marines. Your also vastly underestimating the ability of a blob to put hits in CC on the enemy, deal with challenges (you should have plenty of re-rolls), and the simple fact that if you can hit and kill a Marine Sergeant who is at Init 1 with a PF at Init 3 with a power sword or even a pistol+CCW, you win. Forcing armor saves is a valid tactic, you just have to be able to get those hit and get those wounds to do it.

I'n strongly leaning towards the Blob list with the Commissars... A lot more staying power.

Or, invest in a small C:SM ally section. A librarian, 5 scout snipers and if you are running two blobs, then a chaplain for the other blob to give them better LD and ATSKNF. also take divination and prescience for the librarian to get loads of rerolls for the first blob. Now your blobs can't be overrun as the SM IC will hold them in line better than a comissar would it os a 250 pts ally detatchement, but IMO worth it.

Hmmm... I'll think about the SM (maybe Imperial Fists? I like their color scheme better than the Ultramarines) ally when I'll build my 1,000 or 1,500 point guard army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have a Cadian Battleforce and one Chimera at hand, and a Catachan Battleforce, two Commissars and a Cadian company commander ordered from a local FLGS, so I'll cover the mech list easily once I'll buy two more Chimeras and a Griffon, and the footslogger list once I buy a few more Cadians and another Cadian Command Squad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The footslogger list I'm leaning towards:

CCS, 80pts - Vox, Company Standard, Melta

Troops #1: Infantry Platoon
PCS, 30pts
'Blob' (Squads #1 and #2 combined), 180pts - Commissar, Vox, 2 Lascannons

Troops #2: Infantry Platoon
PCS, 30pts
'Blob' (Squads #1 and #2 combined), 180pts - Commissar, Vox, 2 Lascannons

Total 500pts, 57 soldiers.

 BlkTom wrote:


As soon as his 20 man blob are crushed by a sweeping advance at that Init 3 by a 5 man Assault squad, he will wish he had a Commissar and Stubborn.

Which is why I don't recommend blobbling them at this small points range. Please, please use your expensive assault squad to kill my 10 guardsmen so I can proceed to shoot the gak out of you on my turn.

As soon as he has a Chimera blow up and kill all of his Guard in it in one shot, or the few that are left run out of that 12" Order range of the CCS, he will see mech doesn't mean your guys are invincible and are really just as fragile. All you do in mech is take away bolters. In his foot list, if he plays against a smart player or someone fielding a sniper rifle that kills his commander or CCS squad, he will watch helplessly as his men run off of the board because he has no one to issue 'GBitF' after they take 25% casualties.

I can't help but ignore the terrible logic here. "Mech is bad because when the tanks blow up everyone dies." Now if I do ignore the fact that it's most likely a tank (especially a low AV one like a chimera) will be glanced to death and therefore negate my men dying, then I'm still left with the laughable logic of "if someone has a counter to your army then your army sucks."

It's like if I said "As soon as the enemy brings flamers close enough you'll wish you were in chimerae!" Oh and making the assumption that the only reason people bring chimeae is for the metal box is wrong. Multilaser and heavy bolter for free on something which keeps my troops mobile and durable.

I'd like to see a foot list sprint for an empty objective in your opponent's table half on turn 4 or 5. Similarly I'd like to see a foot list ever get line breaker.

I left the bit about snipers in there because it made me laugh, a lot. Snipers won't do jack against a CCS. Even if they manage to roll enough 6s to hit, they still have to roll 4+, followed by me failing a 4+ LoS then 5++ unless of course...the CCS is in a box, or hidden behind an ADL for 2+ cover.

Every lists have risks, you give and take. But a good player mitigates his weaknesses and plays to his strengths. Your /vastly/ overestimating Guard to 'run away and get back to shooting'. They do not have ATSKNF. They are not Marines.

I whole heartedly agree. As a table edge hugger myself, I've had plenty of units just sprint off the table with an unfortunately high roll.

Your also vastly underestimating the ability of a blob to put hits in CC on the enemy, deal with challenges (you should have plenty of re-rolls), and the simple fact that if you can hit and kill a Marine Sergeant who is at Init 1 with a PF at Init 3 with a power sword or even a pistol+CCW, you win. Forcing armor saves is a valid tactic, you just have to be able to get those hit and get those wounds to do it.

I disagree with this though. Kitting a blob for CC is rather pointless. It's better to try and do as much damage as you can (which is rarely any) then fall back and allow the rest of your army to plough that unit with shots. This is why commissars are garbage in MSU lists (read not blobs). I don't want my squads to survive the assault. They should have done enough damage by that point anyway, and hell...they're only guardsmen.

You know what? It should be quite easy for me to buy, assemble and paint all the necessary models for these two lists, then try them out in combat:

The footslogger list I'm leaning towards:

CCS, 80pts - Vox, Company Standard, Melta

Troops #1: Infantry Platoon
PCS, 30pts
'Blob' (Squads #1 and #2 combined), 180pts - Commissar, Vox, 2 Lascannons

Troops #2: Infantry Platoon
PCS, 30pts
'Blob' (Squads #1 and #2 combined), 180pts - Commissar, Vox, 2 Lascannons

Total 500pts, 57 soldiers.

Mech List:

HQ:
CCS, 80pts - 2 Plasmas
Chimera, 55pts - Multilaser, Heavy Flamer

Troops #1: Veteran Squad
Veteran Squad, 90pts - 2 Meltas
Chimera, 55pts - Multilaser, Heavy Flamer

Troops #2: Veteran Squad
Veteran Squad, 90pts - 2 Meltas
Chimera, 55pts - Multilaser, Heavy Flamer

Heavy Support:
Griffon, 75pts

Total 500 points, 25 soldiers, 3 Chimeras, Griffon

Then I'll see what's more fun to play and build my 1,000pts list accordingly.

As I'm planning an ally list for my BA, I am leaning towards making one platoon half mechanized (PCS and two squads in chimeras, the rest in a blob led by a BA librarian with divination to give the blob prescience) the CCS will be riding in a vendetta with meltas for AT suicide squad. I don't have the codex with me atm, so don't know if all of that will fit into 500pts, but am aiming between 500-700 points ally detatchement. I will post my list later when i can check the points.

Let's see what I already have (at home or en route to my FLGS):

1 Chimera
2 Sentinels (one already traded away)
1 Cadian Company Commander
1 Cadian Command Squad
1 Catachan Command Squad
2 Commissars
20 Cadians (with various weapon options) with Catachan bits
20 Catachans (with various weapon options)
3 Cadian Heavy Weapon Teams
3 Catachan Heavy Weapon Teams

What I need to buy to get both lists ready to play:

2 Chimeras
Griffon
Catachan Company Commander (possibly I can assemble him out of Catachan Battleforce bits)
16 Cadian troopers
2 Cadian Command Squads

Not too expensive...

Hmmm... By the way, where can I get a Griffon? The GW web-store doesn't seem to carry them...

griffon you have to confert, i made 3 of them out of a chimera and some bits of other tanks

Or buy from Forge World for 45 pounds or so (not including shipping AND being ripped off by the Israeli import tariffs).

I'd LOVE to see a deatiled thread with pictures/video about Griffon conversion from a Chimera.

easy convertion that i know but dont like is the basilisk with cut down barrel. i cant show you pictures right now becouse its in storage.

I prefer something that looks good, either the Chimera conversion or buy the EXPENSIVE FW model.

its hard to tell you over forums but i recently saw 1 video and they did it with the basilisk and ill look if i can find it that 1 looked awsome.


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