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So, with the added hobby boost I've got from Christmas my Ork Army is complete and, therefore, I need another of my 40k armies to work on. I chose Tyranids and, to do that, I need an army list to work towards. Now, 5th was great un for me with Tyranids, and my reserve army kicked ass. Now though, a lot of that has become redundant and I've had to switch around. I've even decided to possibly conform to something I've been reluctant of in the past - Tervigons. Well, not plural. Not yet. I've been convinced that Tervigons are perhaps useful, so I've decided I may give one a while.

Anyway, here's the list:

UPDATED LIST FURTHER DOWN THE PAGE

HQ

The Swarmlord (410)
2 Tyrant Guard with Lash Whips

Elites

Lictor Brood (65)
1 Lictor

Venomthrope Brood (55)
1 Venomthrope

Doom of Malan'tai (130)
Mycetic Spore

Troops

Warrior Brood (140)
4 Warriors with Pairs of Boneswords and Toxin Sacs

Genestealer Brood (250)
12 Genestealers with Toxin Sacs. Broodlord.

Tervigon (210)
Catalyst, Onslaught, Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands

Termagant Brood (50)
10 Termagants

Hormagaunt Brood (160)
20 Hormagaunts with Toxin Sacs

Hormagaunt Brood (160)
20 Hormagaunts with Toxin Sacs

Fast Attack

Gargoyle Brood (120)
20 Gargoyles

Heavy Support

Trygon Prime (250)
Adrenal Glands

TOTAL: 2000

General Tactics

Ok, so the aim of this army is to get the opponent caught between two waves of attack. One comes from the front from my footslogging troops, and the seconds from above or below, in the form of my deepstriking units. The Hormagaunts, Tervigon, Venomthrope, Warriors and Swarmy and co. will start on the board, and relentlessly make their way up the board. The hormagaunts will spearhead the advance, being the quickest guys there, and hopefully some will make it into combat. The Swarmlord's extended Synapse Range ensures things shouldn't go awry in the synapse department. If they do get completely obliterated then that means the second wave of footslogging stuff should be relatively intact. The Tervigon goes first, spawning Termagants as it does so. Hopefully, by the time the Hormagaunts have gotten away, there should be a sizeable wall of Termagants instead. The Venomthrope will advance behind the Tervigon, granting cover and shielding itself from a lot of the fire in the process. The Warriors and Swamlord advance behind, hopefully making the most of the cover and wall of bodies to make it into combat unscathed, where they can wreak havoc. The brood of 10 non-spawned Termagants will probably be used to lurk on a home objective.

While this is going on, stuff will be deepstriking on the board, soon on in the game, thanks to the Swarmlord. The lictor should help guide in any late-comers, Doom will be used to take out shooty squads (or to provide Synapse), such as Long Fangs, the Gargoyles will just be annoying and the Trygon will pop up next to any parking lots etc, or just near other heavily armoured stuff that it can take down (or to provide Synapse). The Genestealers will probably infiltrate, deploying somewhere safe to strike out at a later time. They'll ensure that the opponent doesn't just have my footsloggers to worry about on Turn 1.

---------------

Ok, so that's the list. Thanks for reading (especially if you've read the General Tactics too). Please take time to C+C!

Thanks in advance!

Bump. Really need advice on this!

Tactics are sound, but I would suggest either building your venomthrope brood, or get rid of it and the lictor entirely.

Alone neither unit is much help, especially since it only takes 1 ML to kill the venomthrope outright.

Warriors, kinda the same story, 1 long fang pack can kill all of them one phase of shooting...maybe try to swap them out for Shrikes? Proxy them if you can, they are sweet additions to our army, whilst used rarely, they can support your hormagaunts early.

Lastly, if you'd be up for changing this last bit: adding some hive guard and dropping your swarmlord for either an armored shell tyrant and a guard or 2 or Flyrant. Again, hive guard give you anti tank which you are missing and either the Flyrant supports your earlier assault, or armored shell tyrant supports your late assault.

Either way you don't need to reserve your gargoyles or Trygon. Run them up the board! That way you could possibly get them into combat turn 2-3 whereas if you deep strike them they'll be lucky to get into combat by turn 3. It adds to your target saturation too!

This leaves just doom to arrive via deepstrike and to take any reserve modification bonus isn't warranted for just one unit.

Just a few thing s to chew on ;-) take it or leave it!

 The Shadow wrote:

HQ

The Swarmlord (410)
2 Tyrant Guard with Lash Whips

Don't take more than 1 guard because of majority toughness. Thus, when Swarmlord cast Iron Arm, the whole unit will get the elevated stats. Otherwise, even if Swarmy is T9, the unit is still only T6 if you take more than 1 guard. The same goes with the WS of the unit.

Elites

Lictor Brood (65)
1 Lictor

Venomthrope Brood (55)
1 Venomthrope

Doom of Malan'tai (130)
Mycetic Spore

The lictor is useless. Don't take him unless you are doing so just because you like the model. The venomthrope isn't going to do much either, not when cover is much easier to get in 6th. I would drop both of these and either get more shooting (i.e. hive guards) or some ymgarls.

Troops

Warrior Brood (140)
4 Warriors with Pairs of Boneswords and Toxin Sacs

Genestealer Brood (250)
12 Genestealers with Toxin Sacs. Broodlord.

Tervigon (210)
Catalyst, Onslaught, Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands

Termagant Brood (50)
10 Termagants

Hormagaunt Brood (160)
20 Hormagaunts with Toxin Sacs

Hormagaunt Brood (160)
20 Hormagaunts with Toxin Sacs

The hormagants are quite expensive, especially since you really should consider Adrenal Glands for them as well. I would recommend no more than 1 unit. Instead, make your termagant unit larger or add another unit of gargoyles (assuming you have that many).

Fast Attack

Gargoyle Brood (120)
20 Gargoyles

They need adrenal glands and toxin sacs. Gargoyles with the 2 buffs are very good. I highly recommend 2 gargoyles (buffed up) and 1 hormagants rather than vice versa.

Heavy Support

Trygon Prime (250)
Adrenal Glands

Swap out AG for toxin sacs.

I second everything above. I'd add one additional comment for consideration

--If you want to use a single lictor you could use him as a deathleaper standin.

The -1 to -3 ld is nice against lynchpin psychers.

If you play him conservatively you are all but guaranteed Linebreaker points (via popping in and out).

If played aggressively you can force opponents to deal with him or force them to gamble on assaults into key units (like the ones holding objectives).

He can also do ok against vehicles due to his enhanced rending and being a character gives him precision shot/swipe and some trickery via challenges.

He is pretty expensive though and thus is not an auto-include by any means, but he is the only way to use a lictor model that is remotely worthwhile.

roxor08 wrote:Tactics are sound, but I would suggest either building your venomthrope brood, or get rid of it and the lictor entirely.

Alone neither unit is much help, especially since it only takes 1 ML to kill the venomthrope outright.

Warriors, kinda the same story, 1 long fang pack can kill all of them one phase of shooting...maybe try to swap them out for Shrikes? Proxy them if you can, they are sweet additions to our army, whilst used rarely, they can support your hormagaunts early.

Lastly, if you'd be up for changing this last bit: adding some hive guard and dropping your swarmlord for either an armored shell tyrant and a guard or 2 or Flyrant. Again, hive guard give you anti tank which you are missing and either the Flyrant supports your earlier assault, or armored shell tyrant supports your late assault.

Either way you don't need to reserve your gargoyles or Trygon. Run them up the board! That way you could possibly get them into combat turn 2-3 whereas if you deep strike them they'll be lucky to get into combat by turn 3. It adds to your target saturation too!

This leaves just doom to arrive via deepstrike and to take any reserve modification bonus isn't warranted for just one unit.

Just a few thing s to chew on ;-) take it or leave it!

Well, the idea with the venomthrope is that he should be mostly out of sight so should be a lot harder to kill since less things will be able to target him and those that do he will probably get cover from. Also, one ML fired at him is one less at my Warriors or Tervigon, which I'm a little more concerned about. Speaking of stuff like Long Fangs, that is exactly what I plan for things like the Doom. Hopefully, I should be able to get the Doom on by turn two and then obliterate the long fangs squad with my AP1 Large Blast, which should hopefully be fairly high strength after Spirit Leech.

As for anti-tank I'd agree there. Normally, I presume anti-tank is fine, since I include 2 Zoans in a Spore, so that's what I have done here. I also swear by Zoans > Hive Guard, though I am willing to give Hive Guard a shot. Do you reckon I should replace the Lictor with some Zoans or Hive Guard?

My comments in Red:

jy2 wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:

HQ

The Swarmlord (410)
2 Tyrant Guard with Lash Whips

Don't take more than 1 guard because of majority toughness. Thus, when Swarmlord cast Iron Arm, the whole unit will get the elevated stats. Otherwise, even if Swarmy is T9, the unit is still only T6 if you take more than 1 guard. The same goes with the WS of the unit.
Ok, good point about the Tyrant guard, I'll drop one, which will also save points, which is fantastic. However, I was thinking of taking Codex Powers on the Swamlord, since Paroxym is such a freaking awesome power.

Elites

Lictor Brood (65)
1 Lictor

Venomthrope Brood (55)
1 Venomthrope

Doom of Malan'tai (130)
Mycetic Spore

The lictor is useless. Don't take him unless you are doing so just because you like the model. The venomthrope isn't going to do much either, not when cover is much easier to get in 6th. I would drop both of these and either get more shooting (i.e. hive guards) or some ymgarls.

See above for Venomthrope. I take the point about the Lictor though, however, I thought he'd be very useful for late arrivals. Most people seem to be against it though, so I think I will drop this.

Troops

Warrior Brood (140)
4 Warriors with Pairs of Boneswords and Toxin Sacs

Genestealer Brood (250)
12 Genestealers with Toxin Sacs. Broodlord.

Tervigon (210)
Catalyst, Onslaught, Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands

Termagant Brood (50)
10 Termagants

Hormagaunt Brood (160)
20 Hormagaunts with Toxin Sacs

Hormagaunt Brood (160)
20 Hormagaunts with Toxin Sacs

The hormagants are quite expensive, especially since you really should consider Adrenal Glands for them as well. I would recommend no more than 1 unit. Instead, make your termagant unit larger or add another unit of gargoyles (assuming you have that many).

I've ran many mathhammer calculations and I swear by Toxin Sacs on hormagaunts. There is, imo, literally no reason to take Adrenal Glands, especially now that Furious Charge no longer grants +1 Initative. Against toughness 4 models, both biomorphs would on a 4+, though Toxin Sacs will continue to do so after the first round. Against T3 Models, Toxin Sacs wound on a re-rollable 4+, which is a better chance than Adrenal Glands' 3+. Against things with Tougness 5 or higher, Toxin Sacs are always superior. I couldn't touch a Wraithlord with Adrenal Glands, but am wounding it half the time with Toxin Sacs. In fact, Adrenal Glands are only better against models with T2 (ha, lol) and low AV tanks, which I also don't have to worry about either.

Fast Attack

Gargoyle Brood (120)
20 Gargoyles

They need adrenal glands and toxin sacs. Gargoyles with the 2 buffs are very good. I highly recommend 2 gargoyles (buffed up) and 1 hormagants rather than vice versa.

I agree here, and I normally take both biomorphs. However, I was short on points here and since I intend to use the Gargoyles primarily for distraction, rather than damage, I decided against including them. Do you reckon they're worth adding back in?

Heavy Support

Trygon Prime (250)
Adrenal Glands

Swap out AG for toxin sacs.

Definetly not. Adrenal Glands mean I'll be wounding almost everything on a 2+ (I normally do anyway), which is better than Toxin Sacs' re-rollable 4+. Adrenal Glands also make it easier to lay the pain on tanks.

winterman wrote:I second everything above. I'd add one additional comment for consideration

--If you want to use a single lictor you could use him as a deathleaper standin.

The -1 to -3 ld is nice against lynchpin psychers.

If you play him conservatively you are all but guaranteed Linebreaker points (via popping in and out).

If played aggressively you can force opponents to deal with him or force them to gamble on assaults into key units (like the ones holding objectives).

He can also do ok against vehicles due to his enhanced rending and being a character gives him precision shot/swipe and some trickery via challenges.

He is pretty expensive though and thus is not an auto-include by any means, but he is the only way to use a lictor model that is remotely worthwhile.

I did consider Deathleaper. I considered him for a long time, in fact. I do take your point about the nerfing of Psykers he brings, in fact, the possibility of a Ld7 Eldrad was almost enough to convince me to put him in alone. However, as I said, I found myself really stretched for points on this list, so I had to downgrade him. I felt that the Pheremone Trail, which normal Lictors can provide, was the most important thing.

----------

Anyway, thanks a lot for your comments guys, they were all really helpful! I'll drop 1 Tyrant Guard and, probably one Lictor, but I'm not sure what to spend the points on. I was thinking a Zoan in a Spore (for that lovely Warp Lance) and the two biomoprhs on my Gargoyles (and then dropping 10 points somewhere).

Keep the C+C coming guys!

Thanks in advance

I think you have missed the mark on a few of your counter points. For one, AG is a terrible idea on your Trygon. He is S6 so 90% of the time he is wounding on 2s. TS allow him to reroll failed wounds. Also, he has smash attacks so vs tanks he isn't even going to use his regular strength. Never take AG on trygons, TS are very much worth it. Swarm lord book powers are NOT better than the potential of biomancy. Iron arm makes him an absolute beast and gives him the one thing he needs. Eternal warrior. Endurance also helps him vastly. Paroxysm is not as amazing as these powers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It's not reroll able 4+ TS it is more like reroll able 2+.

So the poisoned attack rules have changed then? I may have missed that.

I'm still not swayed on Codex Powers though. I only get two rolls, so I'm not guaranteed to get most of the powers I'd want. Paroxym however, has the chance to really swing things in my favour. Terminators are suddenly a lot easier to kill when my Hormagaunts are hitting them on 3+ and a battalion of IG soldiers is suddenly a lot less deadly when they need 6s to hit me. I'll have a read through of the Book Powers again though.

With the swarmlord you get 4 powers, therefore 4 rolls on the chart. Very good chance to get what you want. The poison rules didn't change. Because the strength is 6 you are wounding on 2+ most of the time and if your strength is equal to or better you reroll wounds with TS. So you are getting a rerollable 2+.

--Yes poison was changed in 6ed. Trygon with sacs wounds T4 with a re-rollable 2+ rather then the rerollable 4+ that it had in 5ed. Adrenal glands on Trygons are pretty pointless now between changes to MC (smash) and removal of +1 I (which I miss on I4 trygon for sure). Toxin Sacs are well worth it though.

--Paroxysm is a nice power but it has limitations due to being a 12" shooting power (consider the threat ranges and changes to mobile shooting, random changes lengths and deny the witch, its much harder to use paroxysm on foot then ever before). The other codex powers are garbage though and really waste the 2 powers a turn rule. Swarmlord got so much better in 6ed and it's almost entirely due to availability of rulebook powers. You can get invisibility which is so much better then paroxysm. You can get all the biomancy buffs which most armies cannot stop you from casting. Enfeeble is amazingly good at dealing with a whole host of units (t3 wraiths vs the plethora of S6 in a Tyranid army for instance) But seriously -- the mere chance (and its a really good chance) of getting a T7-9 swarmlord is alone well worth swapping out the codex powers.

--Phermone trail is rather pointless in 6ed (rolling 3s both T2 and T3 and auto on T4, its just not that useful since it doesn;t work when the lictor is in reserve). I do agree that points are tight and getting the deathleaper might be more trouble then its worth. Was just a suggestion, as I know often times I have models I just simply want to use from time time.

--Gargoyles should have adrenal glands at a minimum and they really benefit greatly from both boosts. Yes they are a tarpit and distraction but with those few extra points they become a credible threat and being jump infantry they are more likely to make use of those points over the much slower hormagaunts.

--The reason to consider adrenal on hormagaunts and gargoyles is two fold. One, Ar10 rear armor vehicles are still in use. Having something quicker then the MCs that can take those out is well worth it, freeing them up to do bigger and better things. Two, with enfeeble available having S4 and poison gets that much better (rerollable 3+ to wound against the ubiquitous T4). You laughed about Toughness 2 but should you decide to go rulebook powers and heavier with psychers its not unheard of to get multiple castings of enfeeble, thus dropping units to T2. Nasty against wraiths and the like.

--You mentioned zoanthropes. I will say I hated them with the codex powers. Psychic shooting is just not that reliable and for their points I was never all that impressed. Now with the new powers I am taking at least one unit to operate as a psycher battery. The chance of getting multiple enfeebles or endurance is just too juicy to pass up. And they make nice walls of cover for your MCs if need be. Something to consider.

skycapt44 wrote:With the swarmlord you get 4 powers, therefore 4 rolls on the chart. Very good chance to get what you want. The poison rules didn't change. Because the strength is 6 you are wounding on 2+ most of the time and if your strength is equal to or better you reroll wounds with TS. So you are getting a rerollable 2+.

Ah, well, I thought, since you only take 2 powers that the Swarmlord would only get two rolls. In that case, codex powers would be better.

Anyway, if poison rules haven't changed, then you would roll to wound on whatever the poison is, but re-roll if your strength was equal or higher, meaning the Trygon would rule on a re-rollable 4+

Comments in red here

winterman wrote:--Yes poison was changed in 6ed. Trygon with sacs wounds T4 with a re-rollable 2+ rather then the rerollable 4+ that it had in 5ed. Adrenal glands on Trygons are pretty pointless now between changes to MC (smash) and removal of +1 I (which I miss on I4 trygon for sure). Toxin Sacs are well worth it though.
Ah, if this is the case, then Toxin Sacs would be better. What's the exact rule, I've not got my book on me?

--Paroxysm is a nice power but it has limitations due to being a 12" shooting power (consider the threat ranges and changes to mobile shooting, random changes lengths and deny the witch, its much harder to use paroxysm on foot then ever before). The other codex powers are garbage though and really waste the 2 powers a turn rule. Swarmlord got so much better in 6ed and it's almost entirely due to availability of rulebook powers. You can get invisibility which is so much better then paroxysm. You can get all the biomancy buffs which most armies cannot stop you from casting. Enfeeble is amazingly good at dealing with a whole host of units (t3 wraiths vs the plethora of S6 in a Tyranid army for instance) But seriously -- the mere chance (and its a really good chance) of getting a T7-9 swarmlord is alone well worth swapping out the codex powers.
Ok, you've swayed me and I've been even more swayed upon realising the Swarmlord get 4 rolls.

--Phermone trail is rather pointless in 6ed (rolling 3s both T2 and T3 and auto on T4, its just not that useful since it doesn;t work when the lictor is in reserve). I do agree that points are tight and getting the deathleaper might be more trouble then its worth. Was just a suggestion, as I know often times I have models I just simply want to use from time time.
Fair enough, I think I'll drop the lictor

--Gargoyles should have adrenal glands at a minimum and they really benefit greatly from both boosts. Yes they are a tarpit and distraction but with those few extra points they become a credible threat and being jump infantry they are more likely to make use of those points over the much slower hormagaunts.
Ok, I'll try and find the points

--The reason to consider adrenal on hormagaunts and gargoyles is two fold. One, Ar10 rear armor vehicles are still in use. Having something quicker then the MCs that can take those out is well worth it, freeing them up to do bigger and better things. Two, with enfeeble available having S4 and poison gets that much better (rerollable 3+ to wound against the ubiquitous T4). You laughed about Toughness 2 but should you decide to go rulebook powers and heavier with psychers its not unheard of to get multiple castings of enfeeble, thus dropping units to T2. Nasty against wraiths and the like.
The reason why I laughed at T2 is not because it's uncommon but rather because if it's only toughness two, but rather because I wouldn't really have to worry about it.

--You mentioned zoanthropes. I will say I hated them with the codex powers. Psychic shooting is just not that reliable and for their points I was never all that impressed. Now with the new powers I am taking at least one unit to operate as a psycher battery. The chance of getting multiple enfeebles or endurance is just too juicy to pass up. And they make nice walls of cover for your MCs if need be. Something to consider.
Well, I'm a big fan of Zoanthropes, and I've always had plenty of success with them. I'll have a think.

Thanks for all your help guys, keep the comments coming! I'll try and get an updated list up tomorrow!

Pretty much everything has been said, but I like this list. The Lictor Phermone trail does not kick in till it is on the board and with everything arriving in pretty much the 2nd turn thanks to swarmy, it is not much use.

nice to see a list that isn't just two dual dev flyrants
I've used hormoguants before and have had great success with them, glad to see someone else running them
also with zoans maybe consider trying to get gate of infinity? it can be a risk but if one in the brood has it, the other two can take codex shooting powers and really jump up quickly to trash something
hope this helps a bit

barnowl wrote:Pretty much everything has been said, but I like this list. The Lictor Phermone trail does not kick in till it is on the board and with everything arriving in pretty much the 2nd turn thanks to swarmy, it is not much use.

Yep, I agree. Lictor will be dropped for the updated list.

Hive Fleet Lazarus wrote:nice to see a list that isn't just two dual dev flyrants
I've used hormoguants before and have had great success with them, glad to see someone else running them
also with zoans maybe consider trying to get gate of infinity? it can be a risk but if one in the brood has it, the other two can take codex shooting powers and really jump up quickly to trash something
hope this helps a bit

Thanks a lot! I don't really like conforming as far as Nids are concerned, I'm glad it's working out!

As for the Gate of Infinity business, it is a bit of a risk and I'm not sure I'd be willing to take it, but, hey, I'll give it some thought!

 The Shadow wrote:

Thanks a lot! I don't really like conforming as far as Nids are concerned, I'm glad it's working out!

As for the Gate of Infinity business, it is a bit of a risk and I'm not sure I'd be willing to take it, but, hey, I'll give it some thought!

Favorite Zona thrope combo is Gate, shockwave, Warp lance. That trio really really chaps your opponent. Gate to get in close enough, Warp lance a vehicle, and shockwave all the troops in 12". The other common combo, is dual Shrieks or Shockwaves.

Ok, here's the updated and revised list. Things that have changed are in Red:

HQ

The Swarmlord (345)
1 Tyrant Guard with Lash Whip

Elites

Venomthrope Brood (55)
1 Venomthrope

Doom of Malan'tai (130)
Mycetic Spore

Zoanthrope Brood (100)
1 Zoanthrope in a Spore

Troops

Warrior Brood (180)
4 Warriors with Pairs of Boneswords and Toxin Sacs

Genestealer Brood (250)
12 Genestealers with Toxin Sacs. Broodlord.

Tervigon (215)
Catalyst, Onslaught, Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands, Scything Talons

Termagant Brood (50)
10 Termagants

Hormagaunt Brood (160)
20 Hormagaunts with Toxin Sacs

Hormagaunt Brood (160)
20 Hormagaunts with Toxin Sacs

Fast Attack

Gargoyle Brood (144)
18 Gargoyles with Adrenal Glands and Toxin Sacs

Heavy Support

Trygon (210)
Toxin Sacs

TOTAL: 1999

With a Deepstriking Zoanthrope, Iam not sure the points are worth it on the Trygon Prime unless you just have to have that shooting attack.

I would really consider dropping the prime + scrapping 20 points from somewhere else and putting the Warriors in the spore as the Warriors are rigged for CC.

Also just realized that the Spores on troop units are scoring, some reason I never processed that before, probably because I don't actually run spores.

barnowl wrote:
With a Deepstriking Zoanthrope, Iam not sure the points are worth it on the Trygon Prime unless you just have to have that shooting attack.

I would really consider dropping the prime + scrapping 20 points from somewhere else and putting the Warriors in the spore as the Warriors are rigged for CC.

Also just realized that the Spores on troop units are scoring, some reason I never processed that before, probably because I don't actually run spores.

Hmmm, that is a good point about the Prime and the Synapse. I'll consider dropping that. However, a lot of other posters have recommended me not to deepstrike the Prime but rather to run in up the board anyway.

You have the Lord and Trevi to provide fall back synapse. There is not really a need for synapse on the Trygon even if you run it up the board. If you are running you probably are not shooting any way, it is already fearless, and if you get "lucky" and fail IB you get +2 attacks on the charge in stead of +1 with no downsides.

 The Shadow wrote:



Warrior Brood (140)
4 Warriors with Pairs of Boneswords and Toxin Sacs

Not even close. 30 base, swords are 10, sacs are 5. 45 each, for 180 total. Looks like you forgot to pay for the swords.

I suggest dropping the brood entirely for more zoanthropes.

Also, about the trygon prime. Making him a prime makes him a character, so he is able to challenge and receive challenges as well. Not to mention precision shots. It's a double edged sword, so consider your options carefully.

barnowl wrote:You have the Lord and Trevi to provide fall back synapse. There is not really a need for synapse on the Trygon even if you run it up the board. If you are running you probably are not shooting any way, it is already fearless, and if you get "lucky" and fail IB you get +2 attacks on the charge in stead of +1 with no downsides.

Ok, good point. I'll drop that then.

Carnage43 wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:



Warrior Brood (140)
4 Warriors with Pairs of Boneswords and Toxin Sacs

Not even close. 30 base, swords are 10, sacs are 5. 45 each, for 180 total. Looks like you forgot to pay for the swords.

Oh god, you're right. It was quite late when I wrote this list, but I'm surprised I hadn't noticed it.

I think I may as well edit the revised list with these changes, thanks guys. Any more comments?

 Carnage43 wrote:

I suggest dropping the brood entirely for more zoanthropes.

Also, about the trygon prime. Making him a prime makes him a character, so he is able to challenge and receive challenges as well. Not to mention precision shots. It's a double edged sword, so consider your options carefully.

I complete forgot about the Challenge issue. Makes Zoanthropes look even better for extra Synapse.

You need something for forward synapse. Dont think anyone pointed out that Doom is NOT synapse. Your going to need something dropped forward to support your assault units.

Genestealers are far less useful in this edition than last. As you cant assault first turn with them or after outflanking they tend to get chewed up pretty badly. Unless they are Ymgarls They are a serious point sink that tends to get killed before you get close to anything. I would suggest dropping them and using the points to bolster either your zoanthropes or your warriors unit size and get them a pod. You could also take a pod with 20 devilgaunts for the same price which would be far more useful than the genestealers would be.

Backlash wrote:
You need something for forward synapse. Dont think anyone pointed out that Doom is NOT synapse. Your going to need something dropped forward to support your assault units.

Genestealers are far less useful in this edition than last. As you cant assault first turn with them or after outflanking they tend to get chewed up pretty badly. Unless they are Ymgarls They are a serious point sink that tends to get killed before you get close to anything. I would suggest dropping them and using the points to bolster either your zoanthropes or your warriors unit size and get them a pod. You could also take a pod with 20 devilgaunts for the same price which would be far more useful than the genestealers would be.

Well, the whole Deep Striking Trygon Prime was part of the idea o spreading Synapse at the back, but I was advised against that.

As for your second comment, it does slightly amuse me how much it contradicts your sig, but anyway. I do take your point. However, in the few games I've played with Genestealers this edition, they're actually not bad at all though, I admit, it does largely depend on the terrain. They're still capable of ripping through most things, more so, in fact, with the Broodlord's access to Codex Powers and all it takes it to be a little more careful with them. It's all about target saturation though, I guess. Yes, maybe my opponent will completely obliterate them on turn one, but chances are, if he has, he's probably not killed much else.

I think I'd drop the Genestealer unit in favor of increasing the size of your Venomthrope and Zoanthrope units, maybe add a 5th Warrior to that unit as well. I haven't really had much luck with Genestealers personally (this edition or last - Hormagaunts have always worked better for me) and between your two units of Hormagaunts, the Warriors, Swarmy, and the Trygon you should have more than sufficent counter-assault punch.

I'm not sure if the Gargoyles really need Toxin Sacs and Adrenal Glands, since the Swarmlord can give them Furious Charge if nessessary for glancing vehicles and you already have several dedicated assault units with Toxin Sacs for hunting high toughness threats. They might serve you better starting on the table and acting as the first wave (since unlike Hormagaunts they can overwatch and they do most of their damage on the charge).

 The Shadow wrote:

barnowl wrote:
With a Deepstriking Zoanthrope, Iam not sure the points are worth it on the Trygon Prime unless you just have to have that shooting attack.

I would really consider dropping the prime + scrapping 20 points from somewhere else and putting the Warriors in the spore as the Warriors are rigged for CC.

Also just realized that the Spores on troop units are scoring, some reason I never processed that before, probably because I don't actually run spores.

By spores do you mean Mycetic Spores, if so, you are wrong. It says in their rule on Page 90 under the Genestealers that they are always non-scoring.



The only thing I would add about the list, is a second Tervigon, which I know you said you didn't want to do, but I've never found one to be a great deal of use, but get a pair of them and they can be game changers.

Eldercaveman wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:

barnowl wrote:
With a Deepstriking Zoanthrope, Iam not sure the points are worth it on the Trygon Prime unless you just have to have that shooting attack.

I would really consider dropping the prime + scrapping 20 points from somewhere else and putting the Warriors in the spore as the Warriors are rigged for CC.

Also just realized that the Spores on troop units are scoring, some reason I never processed that before, probably because I don't actually run spores.

By spores do you mean Mycetic Spores, if so, you are wrong. It says in their rule on Page 90 under the Genestealers that they are always non-scoring.



The only thing I would add about the list, is a second Tervigon, which I know you said you didn't want to do, but I've never found one to be a great deal of use, but get a pair of them and they can be game changers.

Good enough, that is probably why it did not pop up as reason to take them.

barnowl wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:

barnowl wrote:
With a Deepstriking Zoanthrope, Iam not sure the points are worth it on the Trygon Prime unless you just have to have that shooting attack.

I would really consider dropping the prime + scrapping 20 points from somewhere else and putting the Warriors in the spore as the Warriors are rigged for CC.

Also just realized that the Spores on troop units are scoring, some reason I never processed that before, probably because I don't actually run spores.

By spores do you mean Mycetic Spores, if so, you are wrong. It says in their rule on Page 90 under the Genestealers that they are always non-scoring.



The only thing I would add about the list, is a second Tervigon, which I know you said you didn't want to do, but I've never found one to be a great deal of use, but get a pair of them and they can be game changers.

Good enough, that is probably why it did not pop up as reason to take them.

However, since they are MC and not vehicles, they do count as denial units for the purpose of objectives, and can gain you Linebreaker, which is always worth remembering.

 Strat_N8 wrote:
I think I'd drop the Genestealer unit in favor of increasing the size of your Venomthrope and Zoanthrope units, maybe add a 5th Warrior to that unit as well. I haven't really had much luck with Genestealers personally (this edition or last - Hormagaunts have always worked better for me) and between your two units of Hormagaunts, the Warriors, Swarmy, and the Trygon you should have more than sufficent counter-assault punch.

I'm not sure if the Gargoyles really need Toxin Sacs and Adrenal Glands, since the Swarmlord can give them Furious Charge if nessessary for glancing vehicles and you already have several dedicated assault units with Toxin Sacs for hunting high toughness threats. They might serve you better starting on the table and acting as the first wave (since unlike Hormagaunts they can overwatch and they do most of their damage on the charge).

Hmmm, I'm quite reluctant to drop the Genestealers, since they're so cool, but, since I have them I guess I can test them out and see how they perform and I'll consider what you've suggested as replacements if they don't work out. As I've mentioned, I really do find Dual Biomorph Gargoyles to work really well, since the Biomorphs are so cheap on them.

A second Tervigon is definitely a no-go. I'd like to be a bit different and really don't want to have to spend the money on all the extra gaunts. The Tervigon's only there to provide some more expendable cover for a turn or two. Once I hit the lines I have, really, no further need for it, except any nice Psychic Powers I guess...

Keep the stealers, but just use them as ymgarls