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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/27 13:33:29
Subject: If the US Fiscal Cliff Occurs, Who Is To Blame?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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The Fiscal Cliff Looms....
and now is the time to shift responsibility rather than take action!
http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2012-12-24/news/35991908_1_fiscal-cliff-tax-cuts-obama-and-congress
WASHINGTON: Senators bickered on Sunday over who's to blame for lurching the country toward a year-end ``fiscal cliff,'' bemoaning the lack of a deal days before the deadline but bridging no differences in the debate.
With the collapse Thursday of House Speaker John Boehner's plan to allow tax rates to rise on million-dollar-plus incomes, Sen. Joe Lieberman said ``it's the first time that I feel it's more likely we'll go over the cliff than not,'' meaning that higher taxes for most Americans and painful federal agency budget cuts would be in line to go ahead.
``If we allow that to happen it will be the most colossal consequential act of congressional irresponsibility in a long time, maybe ever in American history because of the impact it'll have on almost every American,'' said Lieberman, a Connecticut independent.
If President Barack Obama and Congress can't reach a deal by Dec. 31, the so-called ``fiscal cliff'' looms. Some $536 billion in tax increases, touching nearly all Americans would begin to take effect in January, because various federal tax cuts and breaks expire at year's end. Also, about $110 billion in spending cuts divided equally between the military and most other federal departments would be automatically triggered.
The fear is that the combination of tax increases and spending cuts would push the fragile US economy back into recession. Wyoming Sen. Jon Barrasso, a member of the Republican leadership, predicted that the new year would come without an agreement, and he faulted the White House. ``I believe the president is eager to go over the cliff for political purposes. He senses a victory at the bottom of the cliff,'' he said.
Democratic Sen. Kent Conrad of North Dakota, chairman of the Senate Budget Committee, was incredulous at Barrasso's assertion that `there is only one person that can provide the leadership'' on such a matter vital to the nation's interests.
``There are 535 of us that can provide leadership. There are 435 in the House, 100 in the Senate and there is the president, all of us have a responsibility here,'' he said. ``And, you know what is happening? What is happening is the same old tired blame game. He said/she said. I think the American people are tired of it. What they want to hear is what is the solution?''
No solution seemed any nearer, with Obama and Congress on a short holiday break. Congress is expected to be back at work Thursday and Obama in the White House after a few days in Hawaii. ``It is time to get back to the table,'' said Democratic Sen. Amy Klobuchar of MInnesota. ``And I hope if anyone sees these representatives from the House in line shopping or getting their Christmas turkey, they wish them a merry Christmas, they're civil, and then say go back to the table, not your own table, the table in Washington.''
Predicted Lieberman: ``We're going to spend New Year's Eve here I believe.'' Obama already has scaled back his ambitions for a sweeping budget bargain. Before leaving the capital on Friday, he called for a limited measure that extends George W. Bush-era tax cuts for most people and staves off federal spending cuts. The president also urged Congress to extend jobless benefits for the long-term unemployed that would otherwise be cut off for 2 million people at the end of the year.
``The truth of the matter is, if we do fall off the cliff after the president is inaugurated, he'll come back, propose just what he proposed ... in leaving Washington and we'll end up adopting it, but why should we put the markets in such turmoil and the people misunderstanding or lack of confidence,'' said Sen. Johnny Isakson, a Georgia Republican. ``Why not go ahead and act now?
Obama's announcement late Friday suggested that a smaller deal may rest in the Senate, given the failure of Boehner's option in the House of Representatives. ``The ball is now clearly with the Senate,'' said Lieberman. He said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and Republican leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky ``have the ability to put this together again and pass something. It won't be a big, grand bargain to take care of the total debt, but they can do some things that will avoid the worst consequences going over the fiscal cliff.''
Texas Republican Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison said she expects ``it is going to be a patch because in four days we can't solve everything.'' It was only a week ago when news emerged that Obama and Boehner had significantly narrowed their differences. Both were offering a cut in taxes for most Americans, an increase for a relative few wealthy Americans and cuts of roughly $1 trillion in spending over a year. Also included was a scaling back of future cost-of-living increases for Social Security recipients, a concession on the president's part as much as agreeing to higher tax rates was for Boehner.
Lieberman was on CNN's ``State of the Union,'' while Barrasso and Conrad appeared on ``Fox News Sunday.'' Klobuchar and Isakson were on ``Fox News Sunday,'' while Hutchison was on CBS' ``Face the Nation.''
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/23/john-barrasso-fiscal-cliff_n_2355580.html
A Republican lawmaker working on budgetary issues told "Fox News Sunday" that he believes President Barack Obama wants to go over the so-called fiscal cliff at the end of the year, and may not be negotiating in good faith.
Sen. John Barrasso (R-Wyo.), the chairman of the Republican policy committee, told Fox's Chris Wallace that he expects the U.S. will go over the cliff.
"I believe the president is eager to go over the cliff for political purposes," Barrasso said. "I think he sees a political victory at the bottom of the cliff: He gets all this additional tax revenue for new programs, he gets to cut the military, which Democrats have been calling for for years, and he gets to blame Republicans for it."
For the past week, Republican Speaker of the House John Boehner worked to pass what he called Plan B, a tax deal that had no chance of receiving presidential approval, in an attempt to twist Obama's arm ahead of the end of the year, when the Bush tax cuts expire.
That plan failed when Boehner could not wrangle enough votes from the more conservative elements of his caucus, leaving Obama to plead with House Republicans late on Friday to sign off on at least a limited package of tax cuts for the middle class, before everyone sees their taxes rise.
Sen. Kent Conrad (D-N.D.), the chairman of the Senate Finance Committee and who appeared on the show as the Democratic counterpoint, responded that responsibility for making a deal lies with more than just the president, and that Congress needs to show more willingness to meet Obama halfway.
"We only have nine days left here," Conrad said. "When are we going to get serious about actual solutions?"
Despite the amplified rhetoric about a fiscal "cliff" that could possibly doom the American economy, few in Washington seem to be treating the imminent tax hikes as a true doomsday. Many politicians are on holiday this weekend, and the Sunday shows -- normally a major battleground for political disputes of this sort -- were populated largely with bit players in the debate.
And as The Huffington Post's Ryan Grim reported Saturday, there are no signs that federal agencies are preparing any major changes ahead of the deadline, suggesting they do not anticipate any direct fallout from the sequestration that goes into effect at the end of the year.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/27 13:34:54
Subject: If the US Fiscal Cliff Occurs, Who Is To Blame?
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Old Sourpuss
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Those damn hippy, liberal, Republicans.
Or the shadow government.
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DR:80+S++G+M+B+I+Pwmhd11#++D++A++++/sWD-R++++T(S)DM+

Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/27 15:36:33
Subject: Re:If the US Fiscal Cliff Occurs, Who Is To Blame?
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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Everyone...
(R), (D), (I) and the President.
Besides... if the Fiscal Cliff was sooo bad, then why did Congress & Prez sign off of that bill?
Move along, find the next hysteria.
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/27 16:01:55
Subject: If the US Fiscal Cliff Occurs, Who Is To Blame?
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Incubus
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Alfndrate wrote:Those damn hippy, liberal, Republicans.
Or the shadow government.
They're the ones wearing the cloaks right?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/27 16:06:09
Subject: If the US Fiscal Cliff Occurs, Who Is To Blame?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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ah, my associates...
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/28 13:45:29
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/27 16:09:12
Subject: Re:If the US Fiscal Cliff Occurs, Who Is To Blame?
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Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps
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What do you want, MGS?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/27 16:09:56
Prestor Jon wrote:Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/27 16:09:19
Subject: If the US Fiscal Cliff Occurs, Who Is To Blame?
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Old Sourpuss
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That's the "shadow government's public puppets" the real shadow government is the Royal Family of Britain, who knew?
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DR:80+S++G+M+B+I+Pwmhd11#++D++A++++/sWD-R++++T(S)DM+

Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/27 16:46:37
Subject: If the US Fiscal Cliff Occurs, Who Is To Blame?
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Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba
The Great State of New Jersey
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I blame Obama primarily. The idea for the cliff was his, and he allowed the Bill to be created. I agree in part that he is playing politics with it and not too concerned about whether or not we go over it though I don't think he is intentionally steering us over it.
However, I do blame everyone else for being absolutely moronic in voting for and supporting such an idea. Yeah guys, real bright, turn our economy into a ticking time bomb that will explode if you fail to do your jobs like you have for how many years now?? Riiight...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/28 00:09:36
Subject: If the US Fiscal Cliff Occurs, Who Is To Blame?
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Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre
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Why not fox news, and just fox news?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/28 00:11:26
Subject: If the US Fiscal Cliff Occurs, Who Is To Blame?
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Imperial Admiral
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I'm fairly sure they neither wrote the law nor get a vote on it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/28 01:06:38
Subject: If the US Fiscal Cliff Occurs, Who Is To Blame?
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Hallowed Canoness
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I blame the lot of them, the entire US Congress hasn't earned their paychecks for close to a decade.
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I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long
SoB, IG, SM, SW, Nec, Cus, Tau, FoW Germans, Team Yankee Marines, Battletech Clan Wolf, Mercs
DR:90-SG+M+B+I+Pw40k12+ID+++A+++/are/WD-R+++T(S)DM+ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/28 01:16:17
Subject: If the US Fiscal Cliff Occurs, Who Is To Blame?
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Fixture of Dakka
Manchester UK
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I am doing the sensible thing and blaming Canada.
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Cheesecat wrote:
I almost always agree with Albatross, I can't see why anyone wouldn't.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/28 01:30:49
Subject: If the US Fiscal Cliff Occurs, Who Is To Blame?
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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For what? Driving up the cost of Maple Syrup?
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/28 01:38:41
Subject: If the US Fiscal Cliff Occurs, Who Is To Blame?
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Bane Thrall
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KalashnikovMarine wrote:I blame the lot of them, the entire US Congress hasn't earned their paychecks for close to a decade.
Indeed. Perhaps if we only paid them minimum wage for whichever state they're representing, they might get with the program.
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GW Rules Interpretation Syndrom. GWRIS. Causes people to second guess a rule in a book because that's what they would have had to do in a GW system.
SilverMK2 wrote:"Well, I have epilepsy and was holding a knife when I had a seizure... I couldn't help it! I was just trying to chop the vegetables for dinner!" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/28 01:40:07
Subject: If the US Fiscal Cliff Occurs, Who Is To Blame?
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Hangin' with Gork & Mork
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The American people. The representatives didn't magically appear in congress one day, brought down from on high by angels.
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Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/28 04:24:51
Subject: Re:If the US Fiscal Cliff Occurs, Who Is To Blame?
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Fixture of Dakka
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The voters... for putting 98% of the same idiots who just spent the past four years proving they can't get anything done together BACK IN OFFICE.
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CHAOS! PANIC! DISORDER!
My job here is done. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/28 05:21:47
Subject: Re:If the US Fiscal Cliff Occurs, Who Is To Blame?
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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Unfortunately, things like the so-called Fiscal Cliff are a natural byproduct of one of the core hypocrises of the voting American public: We claim to like consensus and compromise; and then repeatedly call those who do so traitors, RINOS, etc etc and then demand primary challenges for them.
/shrug - it's just how we are.
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lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/28 05:22:56
Subject: Re:If the US Fiscal Cliff Occurs, Who Is To Blame?
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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Ouze wrote:Unfortunately, things like the so-called Fiscal Cliff are a natural byproduct of one of the core hypocrises of the voting American public: We claim to like consensus and compromise; and then repeatedly call those who do so traitors, RINOS, etc etc and then demand primary challenges for them.
/shrug - it's just how we are.
Yup... dats why I blame everyone.
We all get the good with the bad.
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/28 05:41:17
Subject: Re:If the US Fiscal Cliff Occurs, Who Is To Blame?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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If the Fiscal Cliff occurs, who is to blame?
The victim, of course.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/28 06:48:38
Subject: If the US Fiscal Cliff Occurs, Who Is To Blame?
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Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau
USA
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Ahtman wrote:The American people. The representatives didn't magically appear in congress one day, brought down from on high by angels.
There's no room for sense and logic here sir! What do you think we are? A democracy?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/28 06:48:52
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/28 08:13:48
Subject: If the US Fiscal Cliff Occurs, Who Is To Blame?
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Revving Ravenwing Biker
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I am going withe vote for everyone. But primarily scum bag politicians, I guess that is an oxymoron.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/28 19:03:19
Subject: If the US Fiscal Cliff Occurs, Who Is To Blame?
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Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle
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Mattman154 wrote: KalashnikovMarine wrote:I blame the lot of them, the entire US Congress hasn't earned their paychecks for close to a decade.
Indeed. Perhaps if we only paid them minimum wage for whichever state they're representing, they might get with the program.
I am all for this maybe we should demand it be put up to a public vote.
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Heralds of Rot CSM 4000 pts
"In short there is no Order only Chaos eternal so lament and be quelled with fear if you serve the False Emperor or accept the gifts bestowed by the pantheon of the four gods and rejoice as the galaxy burns." - Unknown Wordbearer |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/28 19:11:24
Subject: If the US Fiscal Cliff Occurs, Who Is To Blame?
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Its the prudent thing to do.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/28 19:20:09
Subject: If the US Fiscal Cliff Occurs, Who Is To Blame?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Can't we do a kickstarter or something?
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DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/28 19:20:27
Subject: If the US Fiscal Cliff Occurs, Who Is To Blame?
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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Ahtman wrote:The American people. The representatives didn't magically appear in congress one day, brought down from on high by angels.
And we have a winner.
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Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/28 19:22:24
Subject: If the US Fiscal Cliff Occurs, Who Is To Blame?
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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No actually. Because of the current jerrymandering, Congress isn't worried about the elections, only getting "primaried," in their own party.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/28 19:25:42
Subject: If the US Fiscal Cliff Occurs, Who Is To Blame?
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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Shadowseer_Kim wrote:I am going withe vote for everyone. But primarily scum bag politicians, I guess that is an oxymoron.
Nah, thats not an Oxymoron. its just redundant.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/28 20:29:39
Subject: If the US Fiscal Cliff Occurs, Who Is To Blame?
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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Frazzled wrote:No actually. Because of the current jerrymandering, Congress isn't worried about the elections, only getting "primaried," in their own party.
District construction is handled by state legislative bodies, the elections for which very few people vote in. If anything, gerrymandering is an example for exactly why average Americans are to blame for the present state of American politics.
Further, getting past a primary still requires getting past a popular vote, albeit a smaller one. Of course, generally speaking, the smaller the voting pool the more responsible individual voters are for the behavior of their chosen legislator.
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Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/29 00:21:09
Subject: If the US Fiscal Cliff Occurs, Who Is To Blame?
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Battlefield Tourist
MN (Currently in WY)
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Personally, I think if you are a serious Deficit Hawk you should be really excited to go over the Fiscal Cliff and should be thanking everyone involved. You are getting what you always wanted! Sure, you may quibble about which cuts and which tax increases, but no solution is perfect.
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Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
https://www.patreon.com/Bloodandspectaclespublishing |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/29 00:32:20
Subject: If the US Fiscal Cliff Occurs, Who Is To Blame?
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Thunderhawk Pilot Dropping From Orbit
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The banks for creating money out of nothing, then saying where did all the money go.
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Come into my web, said the spider to the fly.
Come rest your wings, and let us talk eye to eye.
For I am a spider, and you are the fly. Now that you are here, let us sit, and say hi.
But I have have no morsel to share, nor anything to eat. But wait, what is that stickiness upon your feet.
Ah now I have you, now I can eat. Now I can enjoy you, or store you as meat.
For I am the spider, and you are the fly. How else could it have gone, between one such as you, and one such as I.
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