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Made in us
Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?





Fort Worth, TX

I blame all the politicians. It's the same thing every year. Nobody really wants to make the hard decisions, because that means you don't get reelected.

"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me."
- Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 Easy E wrote:
Personally, I think if you are a serious Deficit Hawk you should be really excited to go over the Fiscal Cliff and should be thanking everyone involved. You are getting what you always wanted! Sure, you may quibble about which cuts and which tax increases, but no solution is perfect.


As long as the Debt ceiling doesn't go up... I'm okay with it. (which implies that something would be forcibly cut in order to meet mandatory spending + bond payments)

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka




Kamloops, BC

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
I blame all the politicians. It's the same thing every year. Nobody really wants to make the hard decisions, because that means you don't get reelected.


Or you want to make the hard decisions but because they're hard they get shot down by other politicians or the general public.
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






Where's the option for "republicans and the idiots who voted for them"? It's very simple: one party has offered compromises and attempted to negotiate, the other has decided that solving the problem is less important than destroying their political enemies, and that blind devotion to a "no tax increases" pledge is the sacred law of god instead of a political position that happened to be the best policy at a given moment. Blame other people as well if you like, but it's really hard to get anything done when more than 50% of the necessary votes are in the hands of a party that doesn't care how much damage they do to their country as long as they're the ones ruling over the wasteland at the end of it all.

As long as the Debt ceiling doesn't go up... I'm okay with it. (which implies that something would be forcibly cut in order to meet mandatory spending + bond payments)


Just one question: did you have this strong opposition to raising the debt ceiling before the republican party decided that making a crisis out of it was a good political move against the democrats, or did you, like the vast majority of people, pay no attention while both parties quietly raised it every time it threatened to become an issue (if you even knew what a debt ceiling was)?

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 Peregrine wrote:

As long as the Debt ceiling doesn't go up... I'm okay with it. (which implies that something would be forcibly cut in order to meet mandatory spending + bond payments)


Just one question: did you have this strong opposition to raising the debt ceiling before the republican party decided that making a crisis out of it was a good political move against the democrats, or did you, like the vast majority of people, pay no attention while both parties quietly raised it every time it threatened to become an issue (if you even knew what a debt ceiling was)?

Always had a problem with raising the debt limit (akin to raising your Account limit on your credit card). I was fully cognizant of it during the Bush's years (they raised it then too).

The issue is that no one is serious about working together to actually cut spending (not just reducing the rate of growth which is often described as a "cut"). And stop blaming only the Republicans... IT'S.EVERYONE'S.FAULT.

It's not going to change until something drastic happens, like a true Market Crash.

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 whembly wrote:
Always had a problem with raising the debt limit (akin to raising your Account limit on your credit card). I was fully cognizant of it during the Bush's years (they raised it then too).


Well, I'll give you credit for consistency. At least you're better than the people who didn't care (or even know what a debt ceiling was) until the republicans decided it was a convenient time to be outraged about it.

And stop blaming only the Republicans... IT'S.EVERYONE'S.FAULT.


Why should I stop blaming the republicans? Only one party has openly admitted that they care more about destroying the enemy than about governing the country properly, and it's not the democrats.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!


And stop blaming only the Republicans... IT'S.EVERYONE'S.FAULT.

Why should I stop blaming the republicans? Only one party has openly admitted that they care more about destroying the enemy than about governing the country properly, and it's not the democrats.

If you're going to blame anyone, blame Reid... he has refused to bring a budget bill to the floor. That's part of the problem.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/29 05:36:39


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Made in au
Rampaging Khorne Dreadnought




Wollongong, Australia

I blame republicans for trying to block anything of value from being passed.

 
   
Made in us
Fate-Controlling Farseer





Fort Campbell

 rockerbikie wrote:
I blame republicans for trying to block anything of value from being passed.


Such as?

Full Frontal Nerdity 
   
Made in au
Rampaging Khorne Dreadnought




Wollongong, Australia

djones520 wrote:
 rockerbikie wrote:
I blame republicans for trying to block anything of value from being passed.


Such as?

Obamacare. I have not done much research into Obamacare but from an Australian perspective. It looks like Australian's healthcare system. Also, they tried to stop the Auto Bailouts.

 
   
Made in us
Fate-Controlling Farseer





Fort Campbell

 rockerbikie wrote:
djones520 wrote:
 rockerbikie wrote:
I blame republicans for trying to block anything of value from being passed.


Such as?

Obamacare. I have not done much research into Obamacare but from an Australian perspective. It looks like Australian's healthcare system. Also, they tried to stop the Auto Bailouts.




They didn't block a thing about it. Them "attempting" to stop it didn't change anything. Now had they stopped it, things might not be as bad as they are right now, but we'll never know if that's the case or not.

Things like Senator Reid refusing to pass budgets. Or adamantly refusing to vote on anything the House has tried to send over in regards to the cliff, that is actively blocking things.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Republicans offered to close tax loopholes that would generate 800 billion in new tax revenue. Boehner also agreed to raising the taxes on the 2% that the Democrats even keep demanding.

The price, cuts in spending. 1 trillion dollar deficits a year. The tax increases the Dems are demaning would amount to about 80 billion a year. Republicans were insisting on 200 billion a year in spending cuts, still leaving us with 800 billion a year in deficits. And they refused to accept it. The dems refused to accept cuts of 1/5th of our deficit.

And Republicans are blocking things.

Sure, our entire congress is screwed up, and can't get it's game together. I'm sick and tired of seeing people passing the buck on their "favorites" though. People with D's next to their names are just as responsible for this situation, if not more so.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2012/12/29 12:01:37


Full Frontal Nerdity 
   
Made in us
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges




United States

djones520 wrote:

They didn't block a thing about it. Them "attempting" to stop it didn't change anything.


That's false. Republican efforts to prevent the passage of Obama's healthcare reform very clearly lead to numerous alterations to the initial package that the Democrats proposed. The most notable change being the elimination of a public option.

djones520 wrote:

Now had they stopped it, things might not be as bad as they are right now, but we'll never know if that's the case or not.


Obamacare has almost nothing to do with the present economic situation. The Republicans, and many conservatives, simply regard it as a bugbear.

djones520 wrote:

Sure, our entire congress is screwed up, and can't get it's game together. I'm sick and tired of seeing people passing the buck on their "favorites" though. People with D's next to their names are just as responsible for this situation, if not more so.


Apparently not sufficiently "sick and tired" to avoid committing the same sin.

Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
Made in us
Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?





Fort Worth, TX

The thing about the debt ceiling is that it is a purely artificial issue. When Congress authorizes a spending bill, the necessary debt increase should be a part of it, and not turned into a separate issue to be held hostage for later. Simply put, if you commit to spending $50 when you only have $40, you don't wait until you've run through that first $40 and then quibble about getting a loan for the last $10 that YOU ALREADY PLANNED TO SPEND ANYWAY.

Opposite of progress, indeed.

"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me."
- Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks 
   
Made in us
Hallowed Canoness





The Void

OR you should realize you don't have the tenner, and can't afford to borrow the tenner, and adjust your budget accordingly.

I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long


SoB, IG, SM, SW, Nec, Cus, Tau, FoW Germans, Team Yankee Marines, Battletech Clan Wolf, Mercs
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Made in us
[DCM]
GW Public Relations Manager (Privateer Press Mole)







It's the two party system.

Imagine a beach, with two hot dog stands on far ends from the beach--away from each other;

X____________________________X

Since the far left hot dog stand doesn't concern itself with losing customers to its left (As it will always be closer to those customers than the far right)--the sensible approach would be to migrate the hot dog stand closer to the right hot dog stand and attempt to grab customers in the middle. The far right stand will come to understand the same concept and start migrating as well.

Eventually, you end up with two central hot dog stands a few feet apart;

___________________X___X_________________________

If a party becomes so moderate that its difficult to discern it from the opposing party, it will 'go back to its roots' and attempt to energize all of the customers/voters to the far left/right of their particular stand. Or those customers/voters will self mobilize and begin dictating where their particular hot dog stand should be (Or how it should operate). I'm not a poli-sci major--but this is how I broadly view American politics and I believe this waxing/waning is inherent to a two party system. I think we are still suffering the after effects of the Tea Party waxing in this particular scenario.

Adepticon TT 2009---Best Heretical Force
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Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

Well... lookee there... the Senate has decided to do some work:
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/274825-reid-and-mcconnell-have-48-hour-plan-to-avoid-fiscal-cliff

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges




United States

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
OR you should realize you don't have the tenner, and can't afford to borrow the tenner, and adjust your budget accordingly.


Using singular pronouns escapes the issue, and cheapens the debate.

Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 AgeOfEgos wrote:
It's the two party system.

Imagine a beach, with two hot dog stands on far ends from the beach--away from each other;

X____________________________X

Since the far left hot dog stand doesn't concern itself with losing customers to its left (As it will always be closer to those customers than the far right)--the sensible approach would be to migrate the hot dog stand closer to the right hot dog stand and attempt to grab customers in the middle. The far right stand will come to understand the same concept and start migrating as well.

Eventually, you end up with two central hot dog stands a few feet apart;

___________________X___X_________________________

If a party becomes so moderate that its difficult to discern it from the opposing party, it will 'go back to its roots' and attempt to energize all of the customers/voters to the far left/right of their particular stand. Or those customers/voters will self mobilize and begin dictating where their particular hot dog stand should be (Or how it should operate). I'm not a poli-sci major--but this is how I broadly view American politics and I believe this waxing/waning is inherent to a two party system. I think we are still suffering the after effects of the Tea Party waxing in this particular scenario.


Of course, the modern American political scale looks something like this....
Political scale: Far right...................center....................far left
Tea Party.........R____________D_______________________

The miracle is that the Republicans retain any relavance at all, considering how extremist they've become the past twenty years. Back in the Eighties, the political scale looked like this:
....................Far right....................center...................far left
....................._____________R______D_________________

Yep, the 80's Republicans have FAR more in common with modern Democrats than they do with modern Republicans.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/29 18:40:30


CHAOS! PANIC! DISORDER!
My job here is done. 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 Vulcan wrote:
 AgeOfEgos wrote:
It's the two party system.

Imagine a beach, with two hot dog stands on far ends from the beach--away from each other;

X____________________________X

Since the far left hot dog stand doesn't concern itself with losing customers to its left (As it will always be closer to those customers than the far right)--the sensible approach would be to migrate the hot dog stand closer to the right hot dog stand and attempt to grab customers in the middle. The far right stand will come to understand the same concept and start migrating as well.

Eventually, you end up with two central hot dog stands a few feet apart;

___________________X___X_________________________

If a party becomes so moderate that its difficult to discern it from the opposing party, it will 'go back to its roots' and attempt to energize all of the customers/voters to the far left/right of their particular stand. Or those customers/voters will self mobilize and begin dictating where their particular hot dog stand should be (Or how it should operate). I'm not a poli-sci major--but this is how I broadly view American politics and I believe this waxing/waning is inherent to a two party system. I think we are still suffering the after effects of the Tea Party waxing in this particular scenario.


Of course, the modern American political scale looks something like this....
Political scale: Far right...................center....................far left
Tea Party.........R____________D_______________________

The miracle is that the Republicans retain any relavance at all, considering how extremist they've become the past twenty years. Back in the Eighties, the political scale looked like this:
....................Far right....................center...................far left
....................._____________R______D_________________

Yep, the 80's Republicans have FAR more in common with modern Democrats than they do with modern Republicans.


I refuse to believe that the likes of Ried, Pelosi et. al and other (D) are "Center".

It's more like:
Political scale: Far right...................center....................far left
.....................Tea Party.........R____________D___Durbin/Boxer/Reid/Pelosi____
....................................................................Obama
edited to fix Obama

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/29 18:53:37


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Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Obama isn't a Far left guy. He's more just left of center on most issues, but on others he is on the far left.

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Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 Grey Templar wrote:
Obama isn't a Far left guy. He's more just left of center on most issues, but on others he is on the far left.

Opps... that's true, I'll edit that.

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Made in ca
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord





whembly wrote:
 Grey Templar wrote:
Obama isn't a Far left guy. He's more just left of center on most issues, but on others he is on the far left.

Opps... that's true, I'll edit that.

I think you should first figure out which directions left and right actualy are.
   
Made in us
Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?





Fort Worth, TX

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
OR you should realize you don't have the tenner, and can't afford to borrow the tenner, and adjust your budget accordingly.


Problem is, Congress doesn't do that. They commit to spending the money, place the orders for the goods and services, and when the bills come due and they don't have enough cash to pay it, some politicians then hold the debt ceiling hostage for political gain.

"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me."
- Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks 
   
Made in us
Hallowed Canoness





The Void

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
OR you should realize you don't have the tenner, and can't afford to borrow the tenner, and adjust your budget accordingly.


Problem is, Congress doesn't do that. They commit to spending the money, place the orders for the goods and services, and when the bills come due and they don't have enough cash to pay it, some politicians then hold the debt ceiling hostage for political gain.


Sounds like they should stop spending freaking money then eh?


I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long


SoB, IG, SM, SW, Nec, Cus, Tau, FoW Germans, Team Yankee Marines, Battletech Clan Wolf, Mercs
DR:90-SG+M+B+I+Pw40k12+ID+++A+++/are/WD-R+++T(S)DM+ 
   
Made in us
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Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 azazel the cat wrote:
whembly wrote:
 Grey Templar wrote:
Obama isn't a Far left guy. He's more just left of center on most issues, but on others he is on the far left.

Opps... that's true, I'll edit that.

I think you should first figure out which directions left and right actualy are.

Relative to American politics...




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
 Tannhauser42 wrote:
 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
OR you should realize you don't have the tenner, and can't afford to borrow the tenner, and adjust your budget accordingly.


Problem is, Congress doesn't do that. They commit to spending the money, place the orders for the goods and services, and when the bills come due and they don't have enough cash to pay it, some politicians then hold the debt ceiling hostage for political gain.


Sounds like they should stop spending freaking money then eh?


Heh... he has a point.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/29 22:12:25


Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges




United States

Personally, I blame the Rothschilds.

Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
Made in us
Mutilatin' Mad Dok




SE Michigan

 dogma wrote:
Personally, I blame the Rothschilds.


Not the ape overlords?

Everyone is guilty in this situation

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Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




Brisbane, Australia

The Republicans seem to be acting like children at the moment - they can't even get a bill through the Republican caucus, let alone the Republican controlled house, because of in-fighting. Now they're demanding that the Democrats come up with all the plans - so they can yell and scream at them to try and score political points, rather than taking flack for making their own proposals. They basically want the Democrats to negotiate themselves down, so that the Republicans don't take any blame for proposing actual cuts.

It's getting a bit crazy, and hopefully the 'fiscal cliff' (stupid name for it) doesn't have as serious an impact as predicted, because with Europe still economically fragile, it could have serious repercussions around the world.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/30 02:41:39


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Pubhammer is Moving! Starting from the 25th of May we'll be gaming at The Junction pub (AKA The Muddy Farmer), opposite Ace Comics & Games in Annerley! Still Sunday nights from 6:30 in the Function room Come along and play Warmachine, 40k, boardgames or anything else! 
   
Made in us
Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?





Fort Worth, TX

 Maddermax wrote:
It's getting a bit crazy, and hopefully the 'fiscal cliff' (stupid name for it) doesn't have as serious an impact as predicted, because with Europe still economically fragile, it could have serious repercussions around the world.


"Going over" the fiscal cliff will initially mean almost nothing for government operations and spending in the short term. We already got the memo at work this past week (yes, I work for a government agency) stating that, for our agency, the cliff would mean about a 8% cut to the annual budget for the agency, but given that the agency has all the way until September 30 (end of the fiscal year) to find ways to save that money...it pretty much means business as usual for the first month or two for most agencies. Now, some agencies may be hit harder than others, though.

If anything, the real damage will be how other nations react, how credit rating agencies (and other economic institutions) will react, and how much the tax increases will (and when) hit the American people.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/30 04:55:02


"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me."
- Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




Brisbane, Australia

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
 Maddermax wrote:
It's getting a bit crazy, and hopefully the 'fiscal cliff' (stupid name for it) doesn't have as serious an impact as predicted, because with Europe still economically fragile, it could have serious repercussions around the world.


"Going over" the fiscal cliff will initially mean almost nothing for government operations and spending in the short term. We already got the memo at work this past week (yes, I word for a government agency) stating that, for our agency, the cliff would mean about a 8% cut to the annual budget for the agency, but given that the agency has all the way until September 30 (end of the fiscal year) to find ways to save that money...it pretty much means business as usual for the first month or two for most agencies. Now, some agencies may be hit harder than others, though.

If anything, the real damage will be how other nations react, how credit rating agencies (and other economic institutions) will react, and how much the tax increases will (and when) hit the American people.


The tax increases are the least of the worries - there's already a bill that's passed the Senate to extend the bush tax cuts and payroll tax cut for people earning under $250k. It'll be political suicide for the Republicans to oppose that after January. However, while It's good to hear the the cuts will be pushed back for some months, I think the markets reaction to the failure to find a deal, and business who work with the federal government cutting down staff or not expanding because of possible future cuts will have a more immediate impact. We'll have to wait and see though, and we'll find out in a few days.

Looking for a club in Brisbane, Australia? Come and enjoy a game and a beer at Pubhammer, our friendly club in a pub at the Junction pub in Annerley (opposite Ace Comics), Sunday nights from 6:30. All brisbanites welcome, don't wait, check out our Club Page on Facebook group for details or to organize a game. We play all sorts of board and war games, so hit us up if you're interested.


Pubhammer is Moving! Starting from the 25th of May we'll be gaming at The Junction pub (AKA The Muddy Farmer), opposite Ace Comics & Games in Annerley! Still Sunday nights from 6:30 in the Function room Come along and play Warmachine, 40k, boardgames or anything else! 
   
 
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