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As I understand it, when the depravity of the Eldar reached critical mass, it created Slaanesh. So is there anything saying that if an entire race were happy all the time and overly joyous, they could create a good warp being?

The depravity of the Eldar is blamed for Slaanesh gaining consciousness. The consciousness of the other Chaos gods (and other warp entities) has nothing to do with the Eldar.

Oscar the Optimistic Ocelot didn't last long after he invited Khorne over to discuss differences over biscuits and jam.

The existing gods already cover positive emotions as well as negative, people just tend to ignore that side and focus on the negative.

(Yes, in 40k that means that love and happiness and all that lead to Chaos just as fast as torture and murder. GRIMDARK.)

Thanks for your input guys, and sorry for my poor understanding of 40k lore, I'm kind of new to it.

Magical beings like St. Celestine and the Sanguinor are also rumored to be 'good' warp entities. Good as in bad to their enemies, not good as in actually helping orphans and such.

Tyler_Knudsvig wrote:
As I understand it, when the depravity of the Eldar reached critical mass, it created Slaanesh. So is there anything saying that if an entire race were happy all the time and overly joyous, they could create a good warp being?

Potentially yes, but this is 40k, nobody is happy. Though one could view the Emperor as the embodiment of the hope, dreams, and will of the ancient shamans of earth made manifest by the Warp, and stuff like the Sanguinor, Celestine, Legion of the Damned, etc as his "daemons" easily enough.

ANY human emotion feeds the warp, and spawns entities therein.

That said, chaos demons of ennui and frustration make for poor plot points.

Interestingly enough, my favorite chaos god is Necoho, the chaos god of atheism and the anxiety of doubt. The more people that worship him, the weaker he gets...

Tzeentch is the embodiment of hope...
IMO the Chaos gods have most, if not all, emotions covered.
The other gods merely have dibs on their respective worshippers' souls when they die.

Essentially, the Chaos Gods themselves aren't good or evil. They're just a pure manifestation of what they represent, taken to the furthest possible extreme. They have no actual 'identity' or conscious thoughts of their own, they simply are.

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Setting:Brighthammer_40,000/1st_edition

A funny comparison from the other side of the spectrum.

According to something I read in the Chaos Daemons codex, love, along with a lot of other stuff, is "simply desire by another name," and as such, it feeds Slaanesh.

Hence my signature. ^^

 Savageconvoy wrote:
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Setting:Brighthammer_40,000/1st_edition

A funny comparison from the other side of the spectrum.

If Commissars worked like that, I could probably stand to use them.

CAPTAIN PLANET!!!

I don't see why more new Gods could not be created, including some kind of God of love. Real caritas love, not simple desire.

 Pouncey wrote:

If Commissars worked like that, I could probably stand to use them.

No reason you can't run them that way. They don't kill their own when trying to fall back. They realize that somone is either being unruly and needs to sit on the time out chair or is having a panic attack and needs to lay down for a bit.

I want to actually try and run entire game with this kind of stuff as the narative.

 Savageconvoy wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

If Commissars worked like that, I could probably stand to use them.

No reason you can't run them that way. They don't kill their own when trying to fall back. They realize that somone is either being unruly and needs to sit on the time out chair or is having a panic attack and needs to lay down for a bit.

I want to actually try and run entire game with this kind of stuff as the narative.

If by "needs to lay down for a bit" you mean, "clubs him with the butt of his pistol until he passes out," then I could go for that. : D

At first I didn't think that would be very Noble Bright. Then I thought of Teddy Roosevelt doing it and yelling "Bully"

I wonder if I could find a Teddy head now for some models.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
At first I didn't think that would be very Noble Bright. Then I thought of Teddy Roosevelt doing it and yelling "Bully"

I wonder if I could find a Teddy head now for some models.

I wasn't thinking of Noble Brightness. ^^

The problem with 40K now is its gone all Grimdark, But in essence if the chaos gods are raw emotion then theorically (sp) Love could create a new chaos entity/god.

Love does not = desire therefore it would not be covered by slaanesh.

think harry pottor being saved by his mothers love (that was love not desire) and that raw emotion of love overcame Voldermorts death spell.

So in essence yes you could have a good god based on the goo/positive emotion but then it would not fit the Grimdark that GW is going with these days.

 beef wrote:
The problem with 40K now is its gone all Grimdark, But in essence if the chaos gods are raw emotion then theorically (sp) Love could create a new chaos entity/god.

Love does not = desire therefore it would not be covered by slaanesh.

think harry pottor being saved by his mothers love (that was love not desire) and that raw emotion of love overcame Voldermorts death spell.

So in essence yes you could have a good god based on the goo/positive emotion but then it would not fit the Grimdark that GW is going with these days.

From the Chaos Daemons Codex, page 33, Daemonettes:

"'Hope, love, hate. All are but desire by other names. Thus is it that desire is always foremost amongst the concerns of mortals, and through their desires we shall lead them into our benighted paradise.' -Proclamations of Elsand'daa'arai"

Something that is often missed in the 40k universe is that the four chaos gods compass both positive and negative emotions. Slaneesh is the god of passion and excess, Tzeentch the god of both deceit and hope, Khrone of both honor and violence, and Nurgle has strong elements of compassion. The reason that they chaos gods exist as they do in the 40k setting is because the positive emotions that feed them are overwhelmed by the negative emotions. Khrone would be a god of noble warriors if it wasn't for the fact that the number of noble warriors in the universe were greatly outweighed by the number of axe-crazy lunatics, which as a result 'twisted' Khrone towards purposeless violence.

So yes, in theory a warp entity can be created from positive emotions. HOWEVER, even if it isn't corrupted by the negative emotions of the beings of the galaxy, it would likely be quickly overrun by the significantly more powerful negative warp entities.

Well of course the demons think they are the same thing.

The difference is that Slaanesh is aligned towards self satisfaction. The idea of thinking of another is probably a foreign concept to them entirely.

Love is a rather ambiguous one, since it does involve one achieving satisfaction and their desire to achieve it.

But emotions such as sympathy, charity, loyalty, and such should have a similar result.

Unfortunately a Warp being with the concern for others would cause a terrible even that would shake the very foundation of the 40K universe and threaten to tear apart the very fabric of it's existence. Plot Advancement!

In the original WFRP background this is exactly what happened. There were 'good' gods created from good emotions and 'bad' gods created from bad emotions to be incredibly simplistic.

40K is a very, very grim background indeed since all emotions turn into evil twisted versions that spawn vile gods. All the chaos gods as described and as evidenced by their followers and daemons, etc are horrible and unpleasant. Anyone who turns to chaos ends up in a terrible state, mutated into spawn, etc.

So all human emotion in effect becomes the source of the damnation of humanity. No matter what people feel it feeds incredibly negative and unpleasant entities.

I have often wondered why the Emperor does not have a warp presence as he is worshipped by trillions with great fervour. Presumably the emotion poured into that worship simply feeds the chaos gods too.

So welcome to a background where the only gods are evil and vile and everything you think and feel feeds them and strenghtens them no matter the motives you have.

I think they should make more of the potential positive aspects of chaos, that it is possible to see these sort of elements in chaos gods. At the moment turning to chaos is either desperation or insanity. Only a tiny handful rise to become daemon princes and they are just tools. Nobody gains beyond fleeting immediate power, in the long run you lose and lose big. In this knowledge why does anyone turn to chaos? Yet it is infinitely seductive. I always find it bizarre that none of the rebel primarchs tried to turn back when they realised what they were getting into. Some of the more level-headed ones like Perturabo or Alpharius must have seen the summoned daemons etc and thought they had made a terrible error and turned back on their rebellion at least I would have thought so. It seems that any rebel, no matter their motives or actions inevitably becomes a tool of chaos and that is a terrible fate. It is a very, very dark universe indeed!