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Hey Dakka,

I wanted to know if there would be a decent market (on Dakka of course)for high quality scratch-built tanks and titans. Over the years I've improved my construction techniques and can now produce scale tanks and titans with a moderately high amount of detail and strong durability. Im considering producing large amounts for sale at very reasonable prices.

Heres what I can construct so far with pricing ranges(note these can be made imperial or traitor):
-chimeras $10-$15
-hydras $12-$17
-basilisks $12-$17
-leman russ $15-$20
-land raiders $20-$25
-malcadors $25-$30
-warhound titans $110-$135
-armorcast type reaver titans $200-$235
-warlord titans $300-$335
-sentinels $5-$10
-baneblades $30-$45

So what do you think?

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Hey Dakka,

I wanted to know if there would be a decent market (on Dakka of course)for high quality scratch-built tanks and titans. Over the years I've improved my construction techniques and can now produce scale tanks and titans with a moderately high amount of detail and strong durability. Im considering producing large amounts for sale at very reasonable prices.

Heres what I can construct so far with pricing ranges(note these can be made imperial or traitor):
-chimeras $10-$15
-hydras $12-$17
-basilisks $12-$17
-leman russ $15-$20
-land raiders $20-$25
-malcadors $25-$30
-warhound titans $110-$135
-armorcast type reaver titans $200-$235
-warlord titans $300-$335
-sentinels $5-$10
-baneblades $30-$45

So what do you think?

Those prices seem very cheap, so I don't see why someone wouldn't be willing to pay it but... I think it would just depend on the product... you know what it's made from, level of detail, etc.

Yes and no...

Those who are able to afford such things and not inclined to build their own are able to pay hundreds and even thousands of dollars to get what they want...how they want it built.

These are not your average gamer, however there are more of them out there then you might think. A lot of doctors, lawyers, accountants...pretty much any well paid profession you can think of...got started playing wargames of various sorts when they were in college and continue to play and collect as they progress through their careers. Quite often though, their jobs limit the amount of time they can spend on their hobby - so they use painters, sculptors, terrain builders and other craftsmen to create what they want.

I know a few who have contracted with very high profile sculptors to have characters and even entire armies built for them. They have used special effects shops to create terrain for them (the same companies who build props for TV and movies). They also are the ones who buy the $700 titans which you see build threads for from time to time.

However, getting their business can be difficult. If you post a lot of your work...they will probably find you.

If you were to provide pics we could tell you if that is worth it and if people would be interested.

Added pics of Baneblades

Looking at those - I would probably say work a bit on refining your process. There are plenty of gaps which need dealing with, and areas that could use added detailing. Take a look around at some of the extensive scratch builders to see how they do things.

It is definately a solid start - but I am not too sure it would be in the right class of things as far as "high quality" goes. You may find a market niche though for people who want quantity though. 4 of your Baneblades versus one from GW...

While those baneblades are pretty good and show effort. I don't think anyone would pay for them.

I feel like I could get either 'half assembled' or 'painted models which need rehab' for the same price or cheaper for most of your prices. I can have the real thing for that price.

And for anyone interested in saving money, they gonna rehab. For anyone looking to save time, probably will want you to have amazing paintjobs with your scratch builds.

And for the people looking for bargain basement prices, they are more likely going to give their patronage to counterfietters over scratchbuilders.

Outside 'ork' scratchbuilds or titans, I see no market for faithfully recreating imperial tanks as there are just so many salvagable imperial tanks on ebay which puts you in a much better place. I just don't see price alone being a reason someone would want these.

(also, how long does it take to make these and materials? for those prices youa re probably paying yourself less than minimum wage which makes the whole exercise a waste IMHO.)

Edit:

Also, this is what I consider a 'high quality scratch build'
Kopter Karrier: http://www.the-waaagh.com/forums/?showtopic=51743&st=60
Supa-Bomma: http://www.the-waaagh.com/forums/?showtopic=35582&st=640

These have value because not only are they amazing, but they are art.

Yeah I'd have to agree... you might be able to find a niche building custom large-scale models that otherwise cost way too much, for cheap. If you're very fast. Otherwise, there's just no point. You might get the odd customer that wants to have an apoc game with 4 titans and 10 baneblades. Painting is a problem too... there's a certain point where if you are going to spend x amount of effort painting, you might as well be painting the real thing.

When I hear 'high quality scratchbuild' I expect to see something that has the same detail as a normal plastic model, with something extra added that you couldn't ever get from a mold, that takes a considerable amount of skill. I think there's a market for that, for the same reason that there's a market for custom jewellery.

I happen to think those Baneblades look pretty good. What material do you use to make these scratchbuilds? Can I see examples of your sentinels? I may commission you for some of those, if you wouldn't mind-I think you're doing a great job. Also guys, note that he said those were the first 3 he's made: usually quality only goes up, so I'd imagine his later models are even better. And I'm impressed with the BB quality as is.

I used comic boards for those baneblades. And yes. The quality has increased since those 3. I would be happy to take commisions. I haven't finished a sentinel yet. But ill start on asap.

I'd actually plan to use the Sentinels for Warpath, and would probably be mostly interested in the armored style-which is probably easier for you too, I'd imagine. Let me know when you have one done, and if it looks as nice as those BBs (or better), you can expect me to jump on a bunch of them.

edit-oh, and I wouldn't be worried about weapons on them: Mantic's weapons are smaller, and I have extra: I'm only interested in the body itself. Hope that makes your life easier to help make mine easier

I'd probably commission you to do a Land Raider, though I require some pics beforehand.

Actually, probably a Land Raider, then 2 Vindicators and 2 Rhinos if you did those as well.

Keep going. If those are your first three than excellent job.
As suggested earlier you would likely have more luck doing the bigger more expensive items as many people want to get them for shizzz and giggles but don't have that kind of coin.

I like the look. Imperial tanks aren't overly complicated visually, and I think your quality looks good. I think people would be very willing to pay considering the ridiculous highs that GW prices are reaching (or already were).

For that price I'd be willing to look at a Warhound, but I'd have to know which pattern you are making.

Just remember guys, I'm first in line.

Well, I plan on making one of everything this.week. so...finished pics of everything will be up. Spare the reaver and warlord. And I'm probbly going to start a swap shop thread for commissions soon. Glad you guys are interested! And thanks for the compliments!

You might want to add dreadnaughts and Rhino-variants (Vindi's, Razorbacks, etc) to your list as well: given GK love of Autocannon Dreads and the usefulness of Razorbacks and Vindi's with a high monetary cost, you could probably make out pretty well with them too. I actually had to look at your list a second time to confirm that Dreadnoughts aren't on there-I figured they would be. I look forward to Sentinel model! Also, PM incoming!

Well, I know for a fact that I would be interested in a Land Raider or two...

pretty nice. that said i see many errors.

my advice is to get one as perfect as you can then learn how to start casting.

youre almost there, it just needs more polish.

You can sell them until the games workshop (oops) Lawyers come knocking on your door!

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
You can sell them until the games workshop come knocking on your door!

Sadly, this may be a valid point: give the models different names and leave off all insignia (aquillas, SM chapter symbols, etc). Hopefully they won't do anything.

nkelsch wrote:
I feel like I could get either 'half assembled' or 'painted models which need rehab' for the same price or cheaper for most of your prices. I can have the real thing for that price.

And for anyone interested in saving money, they gonna rehab. For anyone looking to save time, probably will want you to have amazing paintjobs with your scratch builds.

I think this quote is the most poignant. You can buy legitimate NIB baneblades at 25% off during sales from stores and even more off on ebay (although maybe not multiples at once) if you're patient. You can generally get the authentic plastic model in moderate condition for 40%-50% off retail as well. Unless you're beating those prices by a significant margin, people will likely opt to pay more for the "real" thing. I don't know if it's worth your time to buy the materials and spend hours making them at the discount that you'd need to give to sell the models at. If moderate condition plastic official models are at roughly 50% retail then your scratchbuilds would likely have to be at around 50%-66% of that already discounted price (depending on the material you use) as well to justify not getting the "real" thing even if it needs some TLC. If I were in the market personally for a baneblade (I'm not.. just sold my two late last year), I'd be willing to pay $30 for a plasticard one as it would at least partly "feel" to the touch like the official version but $45 would be too much for me personally for a plasticard version and yours are cardboard. I'm not sure how the cardboard ones feel or even if they hold paint well without warping so I'd be hesitant to pay upfront without some nice close up multiple view pics of both unpainted and painted versions. I've seen some horrible scratch builds and any seller's personal view of them being "high quality" carries as much weight unfortunately as seeing "pro-painted" on an ebay auction. If you're serious about selling stuff like this, it's an uphill battle for sure and the lack of a proper gallery of examples in every swap shop thread you start won't help you.

I'm not trying to knock your models or skills as they're much better than my scratchbuilding will ever be but simply trying to give you advice from the perspective of a scratchbuild skeptic. For every good scratchbuild I've seen, I've had to keep my mouth shut about at least a dozen horrible ones... I'm sure my experience isn't unique in that regard and its bound to color opinions to some extent.

I already had that happen on ebay before. Now I love selling "Wardog titans" So when advertising begins, expect different names. As for insignia...i may have to ween that off a bit.

The big thing is to remain off their radar by not going through and opening up a conventional retail chain (to include no consistent eBay sales).

Also - it would help to be located in Eastern Europe.

And I will certainly be trying my hardest to make these models close to, or as close as possible to the real deal. The comic boards are very compressed. And they will take paint fine without warping. Note that most detail will be in plasticard or viynl. SO these arent made of trash. I take time in building these models. You can also expect brass rod, wire, cord, washers, and possibly gw bits.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and shame im not in Eastern Europe haha.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9_CuA63zK4

research mold making. with a perfect master your quality will be better and more consistant.

at your prices it makes no sense to make each one by hand. i have a feeling you would be working for about 2 dollars an hour. how long does it take you to make each one?

One small warning here: you're blatantly copying GW IP for profit, so as soon as you become successful enough to get any attention you're going to be facing legal action from GW and it will be completely one-sided case where your only option is to immediately and without question do everything GW demands (which will include ceasing all production, destroying your molds, etc) and you'll be lucky to escape financial penalties.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
So when advertising begins, expect different names.

Do you honestly expect GW's lawyers (or the court, if you're foolish enough to refuse to settle out of court in a case where you're so obviously wrong) to be fooled by that? If you do, you're incredibly idealistic and going to be in for a harsh surprise if you ever succeed at selling a significant number of these.

Exactly why im not molding anything. I would, but....yeah, what he said.

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Exactly why im not molding anything. I would, but....yeah, what he said.

Molding or not, what you're doing here is already illegal. You're selling copies of GW IP, and the only reason you'll get away with it for a while is because GW isn't going to bother with some random person who sold a scratchbuilt model to a friend one time. If you get any significant sales volume (like you seem to be trying to do) that "too small to care" goes away and the GW lawyers will shut down your business.

I'm not sure why you think so small. Where's the Thunderhawk, and how much does it cost?