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correct me if im wrong but anything that must be reserve doesnt count to the 50% maximum.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Drunkspleen wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
If you have the choice to deploy them then they are not a unit that "Must start the game in reserve".

You don't have the choice to deploy them, you never had the choice to deploy them, they were forced to enter reserves with you unable to deploy them before you had the opportunity to deploy anything.

Did you choose to use the rule that puts them in reserve, or are you forced to put them in reserve like a flyer?

You chose to use the rule that makes it necessary to put them in reserves, you didn't directly choose to put them in reserves, and importantly, you chose to use said rule before you had a chance to deploy them.

 Formosa wrote:
No the rulebook does not state that you must be in reserves to deep strike, that is the issue here, if it did then this discussion wouldn't 've happening, also general rule is you must e deployed on the board, specific dw assault says you may be put
Into dw assault, this acts like reserves, but is not reserves ( yet)

Have you actually read the deepstrike rule?

Page 36 Deepstrike USR wrote:
In order ...and the unit must start the game in reserves

You are ignoring the difference I pointed out twice - Arriving via Deep Strike and *placed* using the DeepStrike rules. DWA does the former. No arguments. Guess what that requires? For you to be in reserves.

Refute if you can, but that would require making up rules.

They have no requirement to start the game in reserves, so they do still count towards the 50%.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
They have no requirement to start the game in reserves, so they do still count towards the 50%.

Except for the requirement to start the game in reserves which you outlined here:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
You are ignoring the difference I pointed out twice - Arriving via Deep Strike and *placed* using the DeepStrike rules. DWA does the former. No arguments. Guess what that requires? For you to be in reserves.

OK, they have no requirement that they MUST start in reserves for every game, just if you CHOOSE to use DWA then they have to start in reserves to use your CHOICE of DWA

Find the "MUST" in DWA. Find it.

Your claim is akin to saying that choosing to using DeepStrike means you "must" be in reserves so dont count. Which is a ludicrous argument.

Nice quoting out of context as well. Bravo

 Drunkspleen wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
They have no requirement to start the game in reserves, so they do still count towards the 50%.

Except for the requirement to start the game in reserves which you outlined here:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
You are ignoring the difference I pointed out twice - Arriving via Deep Strike and *placed* using the DeepStrike rules. DWA does the former. No arguments. Guess what that requires? For you to be in reserves.

It sounds more like you are deliberately miss applying a rule. This is much like the Shieldwall rule in the nid codex in the rule altering normal statuses (the Tyrant is always a unit of 1 unless it is with a unit of tyrant guard, is it a unit of always of 1 for the IC rules). Since the codex entry of Deathwing DTA is that they can be either in reserve or not in reserve then they do not meet the "must" requirement. IF you choose to use DWA, you do not alter the models codex entry, but apply a rule at start of the game that may alter the normal entry.

As to the 50% situation, it is probably safe to assume you can reserve all TDA, but that they simply are allowed to exceed the 50% limit at the expense of other units, as this interpretation of RAW has been around a while and not been FAQed otherwise.

barnowl wrote:

As to the 50% situation, it is probably safe to assume you can reserve all TDA, but that they simply are allowed to exceed the 50% limit at the expense of other units, as this interpretation of RAW has been around a while and not been FAQed otherwise.

Except I'm pretty sure TDA in the DA codex no longer has the "always" statement.

barnowl wrote:
It sounds more like you are deliberately miss applying a rule.

This.

rigeld2 wrote:

barnowl wrote:

As to the 50% situation, it is probably safe to assume you can reserve all TDA, but that they simply are allowed to exceed the 50% limit at the expense of other units, as this interpretation of RAW has been around a while and not been FAQed otherwise.

Except I'm pretty sure TDA in the DA codex no longer has the "always" statement.

Absolutely correct, that "always" has gone, same as with Chaos.

There is no requirement that they must always start in reserve. It's your choice to use DWA.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

barnowl wrote:

As to the 50% situation, it is probably safe to assume you can reserve all TDA, but that they simply are allowed to exceed the 50% limit at the expense of other units, as this interpretation of RAW has been around a while and not been FAQed otherwise.

Except I'm pretty sure TDA in the DA codex no longer has the "always" statement.

Absolutely correct, that "always" has gone, same as with Chaos.

Had not noticed that. That would change things. Makes pure DWA lists a little harder to do now.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
OK, they have no requirement that they MUST start in reserves for every game, just if you CHOOSE to use DWA then they have to start in reserves to use your CHOICE of DWA

Find the "MUST" in DWA. Find it.

Your claim is akin to saying that choosing to using DeepStrike means you "must" be in reserves so dont count. Which is a ludicrous argument.

Nice quoting out of context as well. Bravo

My claim is not akin to saying that, units that choose to use Deepstrike do so during the deployment process and so have had the chance to be deployed which the player has opted out of, the same is not true for units making a Deathwing Assault who at no stage are given a chance to deploy.

I also disagree with your assertion that the word "must" has to be present to meet the criteria for not counting towards the 50% reserve limit, for example the drop pod rules don't elect to use it, it simply says that they always enter play using the deep strike rules, and we safely infer despite the lack of a "must be in reserves" phrasing that it is true.

The same can clearly be done of Deathwing Assault on a mission by mission basis, as once it has been declared (before the models have had a chance to deploy), you have restricted them, much like the drop pod's rules, to a state wherein they must enter reserves.

 Drunkspleen wrote:
The same can clearly be done of Deathwing Assault on a mission by mission basis, as once it has been declared (before the models have had a chance to deploy), you have restricted them, much like the drop pod's rules, to a state wherein they must enter reserves.

Are there some situations where they can be deployed on the table?

If so then they do not have to start in reserve.

Flyers must start in reserve, so Flyers, and their passengers (If any) do not count for the 50%

Terminators with DWA can be deployed or you can choose DWA so Terminators count for the 50%

People seem obsessed with the word must and are deciding to ignore the order in which things are suppose to happen and when that "must" is placed. But hey, based on the way it's worded and where they put it I'm expecting the FAQ to rule as not counting toward the 50%.

To use the drop pod example the unit inside has the option to deploy or not. But don't count toward the total if they are in the drop pod. Seems like an arbitrary distinction.

I also expect it not to count towards the 50%, but until FAQ'd they do.

Units aboard vehicles that must start in reserve dont count because they actually have an excpetion to say they dont. Otherwise they would do.

Can you deploy the models that CAN make a DWA normally? YEs? Then they still count.

Contrary, you seem obsessed with the technical order of things. We are saying that by putting yourself in reserves, you're applying to the 50%. You're saying that you're putting yourself in DWA before any of that happens so you get exempt.

By that same token, what if I just reversed the order of my chaos terminator deployment? Rather than putting myself in reserves, subject to the 50% rule, so that I can then deepstrike when I arrive, why don't I choose to deepstrike, meaning now I'm forced to come in by reserves, so now I don't count anymore because I'm being forced to do it?

It's pretty cut and dry that if you aren't deployed, then you're in reserves. Different units have different special shenanigans that change when and how they arrive from reserves. Half your drop pods do it turn 1 automatically. Any of your reserves do it automatically if someone else's reserves arrive if you use Zandrek the necron special character. Deathwing does it whichever turn you choose, 1 or 2. Doesn't change where you are, and what classification you have during deployment. You have the option to put something in DWA or not. Unfortunately, half your units, fliers and drop pods aside, must be deployed on the board.

Edit ........,.,,