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Puscifer wrote:
I'm going with the protecting it from the Fallen.

I'm one of those who believe that the Lion was the traitor.

I'd have to disagree on this one. I was undecided until I read Fallen Angels the second or third time. The end of that book puts paid to the idea that the Lion was a traitor (in my mind at least). In interest of keeping this tactic based I think I'm going to run a dual pistol Company Master with probably the Monster Slayer so I can use the old school Cypher model for my Master

So im confused where yall are getting a 2+ cover save for the speeder?

jink (5+) plus shrouded would equal 3+.

where is the last point coming from?

The way I see it, not having read the new DA codex yet.

For several years, the Dark Angels fluff hasn't been. "Who is a traitor, who is loyal, Johnson or Luthor/Cypher?"

It is more... My vocabulary might fail me here... "What is the nature of loyalty, or treason?"

Over the millennia, the Dark Angels may very well have done just as much harm to humanity as they have helped. The Black Templars crusade they destroyed, how much good could that have done?

How different are Luthor's actions to that of the Wardian Grey Knights? He was attempting to protect his homeworld, was he not? Admittedly, the whole road to damnation happens....

Anyhow, I just realised this is a tactics thread.

Mouskowitz, I'm guessing the last point would come from the 'speeder moving flat out' jink bonus.

so jinks gives a 4+ if you flat out then?

plus 2 for shrouded?

 Compel wrote:
The way I see it, not having read the new DA codex yet.

For several years, the Dark Angels fluff hasn't been. "Who is a traitor, who is loyal, Johnson or Luthor/Cypher?"

It is more... My vocabulary might fail me here... "What is the nature of loyalty, or treason?"

Over the millennia, the Dark Angels may very well have done just as much harm to humanity as they have helped. The Black Templars crusade they destroyed, how much good could that have done?

How different are Luthor's actions to that of the Wardian Grey Knights? He was attempting to protect his homeworld, was he not? Admittedly, the whole road to damnation happens....

Anyhow, I just realised this is a tactics thread.

Mouskowitz, I'm guessing the last point would come from the 'speeder moving flat out' jink bonus.

He's right about the flat out being +1 to the cover, IMO only useful at the start and end, otherwise the units it is covering should be shooting.

Until the HH books came out there were a lot of questions, especially with the book Descent of Angels. Most of those questions have been answered in the HH books. We can say for certain that Luther had access to warp spawned powers and we know where the Lion was and what he was doing when Astelan implies that he was waiting to see who won.

The codex doesn't shed too much light on anything other than the section labelled The Final Secret

Puscifer wrote:
I'm going with the protecting it from the Fallen.

I'm one of those who believe that the Lion was the traitor.

Heresy!

I'd like to hear your thoughts on the Veteran marines, now that we know they have no access to special ammunition. Because of this, I have seen them being called the turd unit of the codex...

While I don't want to jump to any conclusions until I've fielded them a couple of times (and I won't be playing a game for the next month or so), I have to say I'm a bit perplexed by their load-out options.

I have two weaponless and armless Vet unit with drop pods, and I'm quite unsure as to what bit I should be ordering for weapons... 5 vet squad of 3xCombi-melta, 1xMelta, 1x Multi-melta?

Played against someones raven wing with the new shroud skimmer and the slavo banner. They conceded on turn 2. S4 salvo is awesome but necrons dont really mind it or any mech build for that matter.

Ravenwing will have issues with fliers. Actually I think dark angels in general are gonna struggle against enemy fliers. Too many elite units that are built for specific purposes.

I was wondering about the fliers issue. I cringe at ML for the job they seem so exp. Is the fighter an option and will only one do?

No need to worry, for just one low payment you too can own a new aegis defense line with quad gun.

LOL yes they do seem to be the walmart special

How does everyone feel about Chaplains & Interrogator-Chaplains?

It seems most likely that your close-combat based units will have fearless already (either on their own or being attached to an Inner Circle character). Although Hatred is cool is it worth using a HQ slot that could go to a libby (assuming you are running azrael/belial/sammel for the other slot)?

canadianguy wrote:
I was wondering about the fliers issue. I cringe at ML for the job they seem so exp. Is the fighter an option and will only one do?

Not worry, thats why you buy a six pack o' guard. Fight flyers with better flyers. Remember Raven Wing don't drink and drive.

I started using a mortis Contemptor which is pretty good anti air with a quad gun. Thinking about working in 2 flakk missiles but nit sure if it is worthvthe expenditures. Another thing to consider. You have to declare deathwing assault before you know who goes first i believe. Otherwise i would say going second with deathwing assault would work well getting the twinlinking with the ability to land towards back armor.

To fight flyers they still take the ADL/Squad of devs with flak... 5 points cheaper the CSMs and i've done wonders with mine except for an extra 55 points they can put theirs in ruins, give them a 3++ cover save and night vision... you can also do 5 man tac squads holding objectives with a flak missile...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yes the DA players declares what units are making the DWA but the other player does not know what turn they are coming in on. Also this is obviously done before the roll off so the DA player doesn't know either but based on his decision if he wins roll off he knows which turn he is coming in on and he decides who is going first so you are at a complete disadvantage.

What I don't like about going flat out for the +1 to jink save is that you can move 1" in the movement phase and 1" back in the shooting phase and you have now moved and gone flat out, netting you your 4+ cover.

I find that pretty ridiculous.

I know it hasn't been brought up in over a page and I don't want to derail the thread any further, but just going off how they designed Rad grenades for GK, I suspect Vetock's intent was for Rad grenades to lower the toughness of every model in the unit. Just putting that out there, no need to turn this into a YMDC thread.

 Scrollax wrote:

 Scrollax wrote:


Can someone please let me know what the differences in this dex are between the standard chappy and the interrogator? and possibly if you think they are viable options in this edition.

Also the special issue wargear ive been hearing about specifically displacer shield and the likes, who can these items be given too?

Thanks

Could someone with the dex please answer my questions, as I'm not gunna get to look at the dex till Monday and I really can't that long!

Why can you not wait? You going to explode....Patience Padawan.

Just thought I'd let you gents know, the FAQ is up, unfortunately without any clarification on the rad grenades

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2960142a_Dark_Angels_v1.0A_JANUARY13.pdf

At least they fixed some of the errors.

That doesn't answer the question about DW taking CML with TH/SS - or have we come to a definite answer already?

That and a lot of stuff has been removed from certain units.

Great news about Seraphicus though.

Having been involved in this hobby for over 20 years I have seen many silly rules interpretations.
The rad grenade seems so obvious its every member in the unit ie anything in it with a T value goes down by one..

How can that be interpreted any other way? Seriously?

Really?

"Every model hit by one or more Rad Grenade suffers...."

Here you you might point out that the rules actually says "Every model in the unit hit by one or...."

And I would ask; "What difference does that addendum make?".
It is still the models hit that suffer the effect.

The question is; "What does the word "hit" refer to?". The models or the unit....

BTW, I too have been playing for 20+ years (A lot of my Dark Angels are black. I am sure you know why ). A weak appeal to authority doesn't really count in rules discussions.
Also know that I would be happy to have the entire unit affected. That is besides the point. This is simply about clarifying the opposing view and your self-proclaimed inability to see how it could be read any other way.


.

 Spartan089 wrote:

canadianguy wrote:
I was wondering about the fliers issue. I cringe at ML for the job they seem so exp. Is the fighter an option and will only one do?

Not worry, thats why you buy a six pack o' guard. Fight flyers with better flyers. Remember Raven Wing don't drink and drive.

Guard.

Yeah, they are the obvious allies for DA. They bring the best flyers and Azrael has a big blob to hang out in.

Steelmage99 wrote:
Really?

"Every model hit by one or more Rad Grenade suffers...."

Here you you might point out that the rules actually says "Every model in the unit hit by one or...."

And I would ask; "What difference does that addendum make?".
It is still the models hit that suffer the effect.
.

LOLWUT? It makes all the diference! It is the thing that spreads out the effect to the whole unit. Otherwise, it would be like this:
"Every model hit by one or more Rad Grenades in the unit suffers..." - Feel the difference? In the original case, the unit is hit, and all models in it suffer the effect. In the second case, the models are hit, so they suffer the effect.

And I don't even play Dark Angels ...

I am totally aware of the difference.
As mentioned earlier the text could have read: "Every unit hit by one or more..." and have the effect you are looking for. Feel the difference?


.

Steelmage99 wrote:
I am totally aware of the difference.
As mentioned earlier the text could have read: "Every unit hit by one or more..." and have the effect you are looking for. Feel the difference?
.

Sure. And the rule says that the unit is hit. The "every model" is just the part where it clarifies that absolutely everyone in the unit is affected, not just those who are actually hit. This could be important for cases like ICs in the unit and so on.

 AtoMaki wrote:

Steelmage99 wrote:
I am totally aware of the difference.
As mentioned earlier the text could have read: "Every unit hit by one or more..." and have the effect you are looking for. Feel the difference?
.

Sure. And the rule says that the unit is hit. The "every model" is just the part where it clarifies that absolutely everyone in the unit is affected, not just those who are actually hit. This could be important for cases like ICs in the unit and so on.

I certainly see your point-

The bolded is the issue I pointed out in the earlier post.
Because GW (stupidly) chose to include both words (Model and Unit) we cannot tell which the word "hit" refers to.

Steelmage99 wrote:

The bolded is the issue I pointed out in the earlier post.
Because GW (stupidly) chose to include both words (Model and Unit) we cannot tell which the word "hit" refers to.

Okay then, reverse the problem. How else would you word it (in the way that it will affect every model in the unit)?

 Malthor wrote:
Just thought I'd let you gents know, the FAQ is up, unfortunately without any clarification on the rad grenades

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2960142a_Dark_Angels_v1.0A_JANUARY13.pdf

Hmm... Company Veterans can now really kit out with close combat weapons. In the book it says only 3 can do it, now it's the entire unit

EDIT - A few other dumb typos fixed as well. Ravenwing Command now have access to Sacred Standards as opposed to non existent Relic Banners and Belial now definitely has an Iron Halo.