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Hi,

Last evening I finally spotted that a regular company master IS NOT allowed to take a marine bike. So, to unlock Ravenwing cmd sqd, I have to take some other IC on bike. I find that curious at least. Is that solely to boost sales of Sammael. Lore-wise, could it be unheard of for other company masters to borrow a bike for a hit-n-run operation?

So, what to pick to unlock rw command? I fance getting fnp banner on the bike, to keep up with other bikes.

Librarian or Interrogator-Chaplain?

Timmon wrote:
Hi,

Last evening I finally spotted that a regular company master IS NOT allowed to take a marine bike. So, to unlock Ravenwing cmd sqd, I have to take some other IC on bike. I find that curious at least. Is that solely to boost sales of Sammael. Lore-wise, could it be unheard of for other company masters to borrow a bike for a hit-n-run operation?

Sammael is the "Company" Master of the Ravenwing. While Chaplains/Librarians can be seconded to the Ravenwing, Company Masters are busy leading their own Companies.

Makes sense to me.

My comment of length of time in the hobby wasn't to give me "authority" glad you are a mind .
It was to put in a ref to how I don't get this argument yet in over 20 years I have seen multiple sides to arguments.

Remember in this edition there is a change in how targets get assigned hits. I think this might be why Gw worded it that way.
I don't have all my books here but I will list all the appropriate passages tonight.

 AtoMaki wrote:

Steelmage99 wrote:

The bolded is the issue I pointed out in the earlier post.
Because GW (stupidly) chose to include both words (Model and Unit) we cannot tell which the word "hit" refers to.

Okay then, reverse the problem. How else would you word it (in the way that it will affect every model in the unit)?

Just like I have previously stated, or I would split the rule into two lines; one addressing the hit part and the other addressing the effect part.

Nice to see that seraphicus got reincluded. I was disappointed he was t in the book initially. I have to go dig out his card with his special rule but IIRC his special ability allows DA to reroll all missed attacks, shooting or cc. Definatly have to go check that because if it is so he would be quite an booster for a squad of devastators.

He only works against chaos, so he basically has preferred enemy Chaos

I knew there was a catch. It's a shame DA don get preferred enemy chaos AND demons. I mean after all it's the demons fault that half the DA chapter turned to chaos in the first place.

Don't you pick a model now when shooting?
So pick model hit it everything in its unit is effected?

Yep but they FAQed it so you can only kill models in range of at least one model

Now that's a lotta typos!

At least they fixed them

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:
I knew there was a catch. It's a shame DA don get preferred enemy chaos AND demons. I mean after all it's the demons fault that half the DA chapter turned to chaos in the first place.

Because... who do you blame. The guy who slept with your girlfriend or your girlfriend? Both need attention but the one more wrong is the one you trusted. Just a weird example to explain why Fallen> daemons.

I had a game against a Ravenwing army from the new codex, the reports bellow if anyone is interested (pictures as usual):

BR18: The Black Buzzards VS Ravenwing - 1500pts

Splinter fire really does a number on them.

 Mushkilla wrote:
I had a game against a Ravenwing army from the new codex, the reports bellow if anyone is interested (pictures as usual):

BR18: The Black Buzzards VS Ravenwing - 1500pts

Splinter fire really does a number on them.

That is the second result for ravenwing I played a CSM/Cron list against ravenwing at 1850 and it came to similar results. Makes me wonder... is ravenwing dead for 6th? They are just too expensive for a T5 MEQ.

DE have been the bane of Ravenwing armies since the last codex, I don't see why the new on would be any different. Poison weapons don't care for that enhanced toughness and with the challenge rules I always lose my characters before they get a chance to strike.

andystache wrote:
DE have been the bane of Ravenwing armies since the last codex, I don't see why the new on would be any different. Poison weapons don't care for that enhanced toughness and with the challenge rules I always lose my characters before they get a chance to strike.

On the bright side Sammael has Eternal Warrior, and being T5 he is not easy pickings for a huskarchon. A venom blade gives him a run for his money though.

That is the second result for ravenwing I played a CSM/Cron list against ravenwing at 1850 and it came to similar results. Makes me wonder... is ravenwing dead for 6th? They are just too expensive for a T5 MEQ.

Well going on 16 years now playing Ravenwing as my favourite army, I will say this. I have played just about every army out there. From feral orks and Genestealer Cult to Adeptus Arbites and Legion of the Damned. I own about 8 armies and frequently borrow friends' armies just to play with them. And without a doubt, Ravenwing are the most difficult to use. Am I saying they are weak? No, not at all. but they require a finesse to use. One little mistake, an attack bike not being completely out of sight, and thats game. But having said that I have won large venue tournaments, and tabled the nastiest leaf blower guard list I have ever seen, with casualties I could count on one hand

So are they dead? No I think they are stronger than ever, but it takes certain kind of player to enjoy them and succeed. That did not change with the new codex

 Tomb King wrote:

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:
I knew there was a catch. It's a shame DA don get preferred enemy chaos AND demons. I mean after all it's the demons fault that half the DA chapter turned to chaos in the first place.

Because... who do you blame. The guy who slept with your girlfriend or your girlfriend? Both need attention but the one more wrong is the one you trusted. Just a weird example to explain why Fallen> daemons.

Both! What if they guy no only slept wih her, but got her addicted to heroin and then proceeded to pimp her out for his own gain.

I had a game against a Ravenwing army from the new codex, the reports bellow if anyone is interested (pictures as usual):

BR18: The Black Buzzards VS Ravenwing - 1500pts

Splinter fire really does a number on them.

That is basically, a picture perfect report of how NOT to play Ravenwing. Few armies Ravenwing can take just head on like that. Light eldar come to mind but thats about it...I would have hid the bulk of my force out of sight and used the 48" inch range of the typhoons to take down some ravagers/raiders, forcing them to close, and then counter attack with hopefully full strength bike squads.

 Volkov wrote:

I had a game against a Ravenwing army from the new codex, the reports bellow if anyone is interested (pictures as usual):

BR18: The Black Buzzards VS Ravenwing - 1500pts

Splinter fire really does a number on them.

That is basically, a picture perfect report of how NOT to play Ravenwing. Few armies Ravenwing can take just head on like that. Light eldar come to mind but thats about it...I would have hid the bulk of my force out of sight and used the 48" inch range of the typhoons to take down some ravagers/raiders, forcing them to close, and then counter attack with hopefully full strength bike squads.

The Landspeeder config struck me as odd, why put such short ranged weapons on so mobile a platform. Having Hit & Run on the bikes feels like you should be charging them into combat, but I'm thinking that's going to be more useful to make them a durable speed bump. Slide some bikers between that big combat unit and your main force. If the RW get slaughtered, well at least the high casualty rate is in the fluff and the enemy should be in prime shooting range, if they survive the opponents charge they leave combat and go back for more with a charge bonus or just blast away with the rest of the army

Anyone else confused by the lack of Teleport Homer on scouts? It's not an option.

Puscifer wrote:I'm going with the protecting it from the Fallen.

I'm one of those who believe that the Lion was the traitor.

"There is only the Emperor, none is worthy on inheriting that mantle." - Lion El'Jonson, The Primarchs.

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:
I knew there was a catch. It's a shame DA don get preferred enemy chaos AND demons. I mean after all it's the demons fault that half the DA chapter turned to chaos in the first place.

Then GW wouldn't be able to boost the sales of demons when their second wave comes out.

UnadoptedPuppy wrote:
Anyone else confused by the lack of Teleport Homer on scouts? It's not an option.

Not particularly. The DA don't follow the tactics of codex marines so the Scouts don't function as "scouts", that work falls to the Ravenwing, hence the teleport homers on every bike. Just be happy they're a troops choice. I never had an Elite slot to spare for Scouts

 Flashman wrote:

Timmon wrote:
Hi,

Last evening I finally spotted that a regular company master IS NOT allowed to take a marine bike. So, to unlock Ravenwing cmd sqd, I have to take some other IC on bike. I find that curious at least. Is that solely to boost sales of Sammael. Lore-wise, could it be unheard of for other company masters to borrow a bike for a hit-n-run operation?

Sammael is the "Company" Master of the Ravenwing. While Chaplains/Librarians can be seconded to the Ravenwing, Company Masters are busy leading their own Companies.

Makes sense to me.

Unless I'm missing something, Company Masters can take bikes, it's in the list...

 Kovnik Obama wrote:

 Flashman wrote:

Timmon wrote:
Hi,

Last evening I finally spotted that a regular company master IS NOT allowed to take a marine bike. So, to unlock Ravenwing cmd sqd, I have to take some other IC on bike. I find that curious at least. Is that solely to boost sales of Sammael. Lore-wise, could it be unheard of for other company masters to borrow a bike for a hit-n-run operation?

Sammael is the "Company" Master of the Ravenwing. While Chaplains/Librarians can be seconded to the Ravenwing, Company Masters are busy leading their own Companies.

Makes sense to me.

Unless I'm missing something, Company Masters can take bikes, it's in the list...

You're missing the superscript 2 by Space Marine bike which notes the Company Masters can't take the bike. Or its 3, one of the two. The other one says Techs can't take jump packs

Crap. This is actually annoying, now it's an entire HQ + Biker Command that I need to modify...

Something's been bothering me about the HQs.

Asmodai, Ezekial, Azrael have no bike and have Power Armor/Artificer Armor.

So they can't be used in Deepstriking Terminator squads (clearly the entire design considering DW Assault and Vengeful Strike) nor can they be used in Bike squads.

Also, Company Master can't be mounted on a bike....but Captains can be mounted on a Bike in Codex: Space Marine.

So basically aside from Sammael and Belial, none of the other special characters synergize with the Codex's main assault units, unless you're counting "Veteran Squads" (lol). What kind of a delivery mechanism would make sense for an HQ unit in Power Armor, when all the legitimate assault choices are either on Bikes or in TDA?

 TedNugent wrote:
Something's been bothering me about the HQs.

Asmodai, Ezekial, Azrael have no bike and have Power Armor/Artificer Armor.

So they can't be used in Deepstriking Terminator squads (clearly the entire design considering DW Assault and Vengeful Strike) nor can they be used in Bike squads.

Also, Company Master can't be mounted on a bike....but Captains can be mounted on a Bike in Codex: Space Marine.

So basically aside from Sammael and Belial, none of the other special characters synergize with the Codex's main assault units, unless you're counting "Veteran Squads" (lol). What kind of a delivery mechanism would make sense for an HQ unit in Power Armor, when all the legitimate assault choices are either on Bikes or in TDA?

Welcome to playing Dark Angels, we have a fluff accurate list. You can take most HQs with either RW or DW, but there is one RW Company Master (Sammael) and one DW Company Master (Belial). Now because all Company Masters are DW they can take Termie armor and drop with their battle brothers. They are not all Ravenwing and the Ravenwing stands apart so no bikes. Things like this are why the DA get their own codex, despite all appearances to the contrary we're not a codex chapter. We don't get a Master of the Forge because we don't trust Techmarines that much and we hard-wire our best techmarine into our fortess monastery.

Not to be unwelcoming, but if you want to take a Captain on a bike, play White Scars, or really any codex chapter. If you want to play the Unforgiven then understand that our fluff is tied directly to our army choices

EDIT: Azrael is his own delivery mechanism, his squad has 4++ on top of their 3+. Personally I like him in a 9 man squad of vets with every vet having a storm bolter.

The Landspeeder config struck me as odd, why put such short ranged weapons on so mobile a platform. Having Hit & Run on the bikes feels like you should be charging them into combat, but I'm thinking that's going to be more useful to make them a durable speed bump. Slide some bikers between that big combat unit and your main force. If the RW get slaughtered, well at least the high casualty rate is in the fluff and the enemy should be in prime shooting range, if they survive the opponents charge they leave combat and go back for more with a charge bonus or just blast away with the rest of the army

Ravenwing are all about hitting where it hurts and avoiding retaliation. Heavy flamers and assault throw that concept out the window. And yes you got it right about Hit & run, it should not be an incentive to assault, only a tool to escape an opponents assault. Having said that only, charge when you are assured of a quick victory. The firepower of ravenwing units is far greater than their assault ability.