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 kronk wrote:
Mrs. Stompa, do you really run into a lot of gamers making rape jokes at game stores? That's pretty messed up.

No, no. I mentioned in my last post that I was being too broad in discussing my gaming experiences, and including online and platorm games.

 Mrs. Stompa wrote:

 kronk wrote:
Mrs. Stompa, do you really run into a lot of gamers making rape jokes at game stores? That's pretty messed up.

No, no. I mentioned in my last post that I was being too broad in discussing my gaming experiences, and including online and platorm games.

so, what, exactly, is holding you back from playing a minis wargame?

 RiTides wrote:
Manchu, I hope your last sentence isn't referring to Mrs Stompa.

RiTides, I'd rather you not "stir the pot" as that sort of thing is against the rules. I think it's clear that my comment is not a reference to any particular poster but a hypothetical mindset. Making up that kind of connection is very poor form.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

hands_miranda wrote:
Can someone then explain the point of cheesecake/sexualized figures to me then?

I think this would be a great question to address to Mrs Stompa and any other women gamers who apparently don't find that category of models to be prima facie offensive. Because the assumption has been that those models exist only to titillate men by demeaning women.

 Polonius wrote:

 Mrs. Stompa wrote:

 kronk wrote:
Mrs. Stompa, do you really run into a lot of gamers making rape jokes at game stores? That's pretty messed up.

No, no. I mentioned in my last post that I was being too broad in discussing my gaming experiences, and including online and platorm games.

so, what, exactly, is holding you back from playing a minis wargame?

My vast amounts of unpainted and unassembled Tyranids.

 Las wrote:

 MetalOxide wrote:

The self entitlement some of these feminists have even though men and women are pretty equal in today's western society; they think they can go into a male dominated hobby and expect sensorship just because they find things that men like offensive. Sure it would be nice to have games for women and a female gaming community, but instead of building a female gaming community and showing the games companies that they would like more inclusion in the industry, many feminists decide to bash on the games intended for men, which results in them getting no sympathy or support and hostility from the gaming community.

No one's bashing on the games, it's quite clear from the women in this thread that they have a real love and passion for the hobby. The issue is that they feel like outsiders and instead of looking for ways to alleviate this problem, your insecurities are driving you to ignore the way they feel and dismiss it as intrusion into something that isn't really yours to govern. We should be looking to make the gaming community as awesome as possible and personally I think having more women in the hobby would be wicked. Unless you're some dork with a fear of females I don't see what the problem is. No one says you have to get rid of your mini porn, just recognize the viewpoints of others, regardless of gender.

.

You raise some pretty good points there ... and mini porn? I do no own any female minis, I have not seen any which I particually like, I will take war-machines, robots and tanks over scantily clad female minis any day.

 Mrs. Stompa wrote:

That's what's I'm trying to figure out. I'm sitting here talking with MGS and saying that I don't understand why Wargaming is a "men's hobby." Why? Why is it for men and not women? Why should women be told to go make their own games and own communities? I don't -want- separate womens and mens games and game communities.

It's a bit off putting, to be honest, to confront the attitude of "Well this is a hobby for men. You're not really welcome here. If you feel bothered by something, that's too bad because this isn't a hobby for women, so go find your own thing."

I feel like that can only be damaging to the hobby.

Also I feel like I need to say I was being to broad in my other posts, and including things like online and platform gaming in my statements, when in reality the communities are different animals.

I have no idea why it's male dominated. When I go in a game store, my GF is usually the only female in there. Sad, really. I don't think the guys in there would kick them out if a girl wanted to play. I think perhaps it goes back to the "girls mature faster than boys" thing. Most of the guys I see at the two FLGSs near me are teenagers. Listening to them talk, it's clear they haven't learned that many social skills. Very awkward, to condense it to stereotypes. Talking over one another. Interrupting me when I was talking to the manager, for example. Perhaps the girls just don't want to be around that. I don't recall any rape jokes or the like, but then I don't game in game stores. Just occasionally swing by to browse or pick up a new board game.

I don't think they're intentionally behaving that way. I don't think you'll find many people that say they don't want to play against girls. Perhaps they don't want to lose to a girl, but that's a whole different topic. Dunno. I guess I just haven't seen the "No girls aloud" clubs you're talking about. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding your point.

Really not wanting to stir the pot, just to clarify. Since you're not referring to her, I apologize. Would've edited it but knew your reply would beat it.

However, it wasn't clear to me that you were being hypothetical, given that that statement was part of a response to her quote.

 Mrs. Stompa wrote:

 kronk wrote:
so, what, exactly, is holding you back from playing a minis wargame?

My vast amounts of unpainted and unassembled Tyranids.

The great equalizer!

 Mrs. Stompa wrote:
My vast amounts of unpainted and unassembled Tyranids.

The Tyranid Horde strikes again!

 lucasbuffalo wrote:
I don't really see that reaction though. I see people saying "you're right, YOU should do something about it to improve it," and defending their choice in what they enjoy. I personally would love to see some female faces on Imperial Guard, especially since it's in the lore and makes sense.

I do see it, however. People in this very thread have reacted to "can we have more female miniatures which are not cheesecake" with "how DARE you take the cheesecake away!". Numerous times, and repeatedly.

Because apparently, you can't have a hobby with both?

 RiTides wrote:
However, it wasn't clear to me that you were being hypothetical, given that that statement was part of a response to her quote.

But she never did any of the things I mentioned:

 Manchu wrote:
People who think a certain sculpt constitutes sexual harassment and want to label any one who disagrees as a pervert chauvinist, however, might not fit in and I really disagree that "room should be made."

She's not saying model X is sexual harrassment or that I or anyone else who disagrees with such an assessment is wrong much less morally deficient. What we have instead is a poster who is explicitly NOT being hostile and therefore dialog is possible. That's radically different from what I often see come out of the blogosphere on gaming.

 Manchu wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

hands_miranda wrote:
Can someone then explain the point of cheesecake/sexualized figures to me then?

I think this would be a great question to address to Mrs Stompa and any other women gamers who apparently don't find that category of models to be prima facie offensive. Because the assumption has been that those models exist only to titillate men by demeaning women.

I don't find cheesecake or sexualized figures to be "offensive." Silly? Sure. MGS can tell you how much I sigh and eyeroll at the majority of female models I see. Straight men like looking at lady parts. This is a fact, and one that doesn't bother me. I just have a desire to see more female models (speaking about 40k, Fantasy, and all manner of minis) which are sculpted less to tittilate and more to look badass. I'm not saying that the tittilation models are evil and should be scrapped. But just balance the offerings a little so that if I ever want to paint a female model, I have more to think about than which shadowing will make her bosom look more voluptuous.

ETA - I did find that one diorama that guy did - the one with the Eldar woman surrounded by men and getting her clothes torn off, making it clear she was in for a raping - to be offensive. That bothered me because it was rape as tittilation.

Who are y'all gaming with that rape jokes are common place? Are they all twelve? In my limited gaming circles (which, sadly, have been almost entirely male) i never hear rape jokes.

I'm much more likely to hear tongue-in-cheek gay jokes/homophobia about Dark Angels or Elves than anyone making jokes about rape.

Have I just been lucky enough to have fallen into enlightened gaming utopias for much of the last twenty years?

(Not here in Richmond, mostly because A) I took a break from gaming and sold out and B) I don't have gaming group here

 Melissia wrote:
Because apparently, you can't have a hobby with both?

I think we already do.

 Melissia wrote:

 Mrs. Stompa wrote:
My vast amounts of unpainted and unassembled Tyranids.

The Tyranid Horde strikes again!

 lucasbuffalo wrote:
I don't really see that reaction though. I see people saying "you're right, YOU should do something about it to improve it," and defending their choice in what they enjoy. I personally would love to see some female faces on Imperial Guard, especially since it's in the lore and makes sense.

I do see it, however. People in this very thread have reacted to "can we have more female miniatures which are not cheesecake" with "how DARE you take the cheesecake away!". Numerous times, and repeatedly.

Because apparently, you can't have a hobby with both?

But that's not what's being said. What's being said is that "Cheesecake is sexually demeaning and everyone who likes it is furthering a rape-filled male agenda" followed by "how DARE you take the cheesecake away!" If this thread was "I wish there were more non-cheesecake cool female sculpts", you wouldn't see a defensive reaction.

 Manchu wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
However, it wasn't clear to me that you were being hypothetical, given that that statement was part of a response to her quote.

But she never did any of the things I mentioned:

 Manchu wrote:
People who think a certain sculpt constitutes sexual harassment and want to label any one who disagrees as a pervert chauvinist, however, might not fit in and I really disagree that "room should be made."

She's not saying model X is sexual harrassment or that I or anyone else who disagrees with such an assessment is wrong much less morally deficient. What we have instead is a poster who is explicitly NOT being hostile and therefore dialog is possible. That's radically different from what I often see come out of the blogosphere on gaming.

Agreed, which is why the Stompas are awesome

Sorry I mis-read your post, then.

 chaplaingrabthar wrote:
Who are y'all gaming with that rape jokes are common place? Are they all twelve? In my limited gaming circles (which, sadly, have been almost entirely male) i never hear rape jokes.

I'm much more likely to hear tongue-in-cheek gay jokes/homophobia about Dark Angels or Elves than anyone making jokes about rape.

Have I just been lucky enough to have fallen into enlightened gaming utopias for much of the last twenty years?

(Not here in Richmond, mostly because A) I took a break from gaming and sold out and B) I don't have gaming group here

I admitted, I was making the mistake of lumping my own online gaming experiences with gaming in general, which was a little off topic and unintentionally misleading.

 Mrs. Stompa wrote:
I just have a desire to see more female models (speaking about 40k, Fantasy, and all manner of minis) which are sculpted less to tittilate and more to look badass.

And this is where the meaningful differences in opinion start to come out. Honestly, I don't see much in the GW line that is more about titillation than badassery. Sure, there are those slave girls but that's like two sculpts. Some might say Repentia, but I actually disagree. When I think of female GW models, I'm thinking SoB, Lelith, Shadowsun. I'm not titillated by any of them.* But I do think they're pretty badass.

*TBH, I have to make an exception for Lelith's dex art. That's sexy. But it's also badass and no less badass for its sexiness. But that's what she's supposed to represent and she's hardly the rule across 40k.

 Mrs. Stompa wrote:
I don't find cheesecake or sexualized figures to be "offensive." Silly? Sure. MGS can tell you how much I sigh and eyeroll at the majority of female models I see. Straight men like looking at lady parts. This is a fact, and one that doesn't bother me. I just have a desire to see more female models (speaking about 40k, Fantasy, and all manner of minis) which are sculpted less to tittilate and more to look badass.

Have you checked Reaper Miniatures? Their more recent sculpts have been more like this:



And less like this:

 RiTides wrote:
Sorry I mis-read your post, then.

pas de probleme!

I do tend to like Reaper minis. And this is where I annoy the lot of you by admitting I don't much like humanoid models anyway...the disproportionately large head and hands bother me! It's a thing, I can't help it.

 Mrs. Stompa wrote:
ETA - I did find that one diorama that guy did - the one with the Eldar woman surrounded by men and getting her clothes torn off, making it clear she was in for a raping - to be offensive. That bothered me because it was rape as tittilation.

I'm such a horrible person because EVERYTHING technical about that piece is AMAZING! the blending, the conversions, sculpting, basing, everything! But I feel like such a cretin for liking that diorama for the artistic aspects simple because it contains that subject matter.

 Mrs. Stompa wrote:
I do tend to like Reaper minis. And this is where I annoy the lot of you by admitting I don't much like humanoid models anyway...the disproportionately large head and hands bother me! It's a thing, I can't help it.

BAH!!! Welcome to ignore!

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Mrs. Stompa wrote:
ETA - I did find that one diorama that guy did - the one with the Eldar woman surrounded by men and getting her clothes torn off, making it clear she was in for a raping - to be offensive. That bothered me because it was rape as tittilation.

I'm such a horrible person because EVERYTHING technical about that piece is AMAZING! the blending, the conversions, sculpting, basing, everything! But I feel like such a cretin for liking that diorama because of the subject matter.

Well...that's probably a topic for another forum altogether. But I, like a lot of women, am bothered by graphic and/or realistic depictions of rape or near rape . I think it's just a chemical thing in our brains that makes us go NOPE THAT'S NOT ENJOYABLE TO LOOK AT.

 Mrs. Stompa wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

hands_miranda wrote:
Can someone then explain the point of cheesecake/sexualized figures to me then?

I think this would be a great question to address to Mrs Stompa and any other women gamers who apparently don't find that category of models to be prima facie offensive. Because the assumption has been that those models exist only to titillate men by demeaning women.

I don't find cheesecake or sexualized figures to be "offensive." Silly? Sure. MGS can tell you how much I sigh and eyeroll at the majority of female models I see. Straight men like looking at lady parts. This is a fact, and one that doesn't bother me. I just have a desire to see more female models (speaking about 40k, Fantasy, and all manner of minis) which are sculpted less to tittilate and more to look badass. I'm not saying that the tittilation models are evil and should be scrapped. But just balance the offerings a little so that if I ever want to paint a female model, I have more to think about than which shadowing will make her bosom look more voluptuous.

How do you feel about the Elvish/Eldar races then, which often have female and male models mixed or are on occasion sexually ambiguous?

 lucasbuffalo wrote:
If this thread was "I wish there were more non-cheesecake cool female sculpts", you wouldn't see a defensive reaction.

Yes I would, because that's the same knee-jerk reaction that's been had every single time that sentiment is expressed on this forum, and on the internet in general.

Such as me asking on a gamefaqs forum "Does this game have a playable female character in it"? -- exact words-- and immediately I get labeled a feminazi and attacked. That's the norm, sadly.

 Mrs. Stompa wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Mrs. Stompa wrote:
ETA - I did find that one diorama that guy did - the one with the Eldar woman surrounded by men and getting her clothes torn off, making it clear she was in for a raping - to be offensive. That bothered me because it was rape as tittilation.

I'm such a horrible person because EVERYTHING technical about that piece is AMAZING! the blending, the conversions, sculpting, basing, everything! But I feel like such a cretin for liking that diorama because of the subject matter.

Well...that's probably a topic for another forum altogether. But I, like a lot of women, am bothered by graphic and/or realistic depictions of rape or near rape . I think it's just a chemical thing in our brains that makes us go NOPE THAT'S NOT ENJOYABLE TO LOOK AT.

My edit on that post clarifies my point, because the original version of that message made it seem like I like the content lol.

But that guy has done several other pieces, one of which was humans being enslaved by Dark Eldar, just as technically sound without the rapey undertones. That artist in general is a fantastic painter, but gets a lot of recognition because of his racey content.

 Mrs. Stompa wrote:
But I, like a lot of women, am bothered by graphic and/or realistic depictions of rape or near rape . I think it's just a chemical thing in our brains that makes us go NOPE THAT'S NOT ENJOYABLE TO LOOK AT.

I think most men are much the same.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Mrs. Stompa wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

hands_miranda wrote:
Can someone then explain the point of cheesecake/sexualized figures to me then?

I think this would be a great question to address to Mrs Stompa and any other women gamers who apparently don't find that category of models to be prima facie offensive. Because the assumption has been that those models exist only to titillate men by demeaning women.

I don't find cheesecake or sexualized figures to be "offensive." Silly? Sure. MGS can tell you how much I sigh and eyeroll at the majority of female models I see. Straight men like looking at lady parts. This is a fact, and one that doesn't bother me. I just have a desire to see more female models (speaking about 40k, Fantasy, and all manner of minis) which are sculpted less to tittilate and more to look badass. I'm not saying that the tittilation models are evil and should be scrapped. But just balance the offerings a little so that if I ever want to paint a female model, I have more to think about than which shadowing will make her bosom look more voluptuous.

How do you feel about the Elvish/Eldar races then, which often have female and male models mixed or are on occasion sexually ambiguous?

Fine? I'm not terribly familiar with them, to be honest. Ours is a household of Orcs and Tyranids. But let me be clear, I'm not anti boob-having models. And I'm not anti sexy models.

 kronk wrote:

 Mrs. Stompa wrote:
I do tend to like Reaper minis. And this is where I annoy the lot of you by admitting I don't much like humanoid models anyway...the disproportionately large head and hands bother me! It's a thing, I can't help it.

BAH!!! Welcome to ignore!

Lol great reaction.

You must hate the Chibi minis from Impact or Super Dungeon Explore then, Mrs Stompa

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Mrs. Stompa wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Mrs. Stompa wrote:
ETA - I did find that one diorama that guy did - the one with the Eldar woman surrounded by men and getting her clothes torn off, making it clear she was in for a raping - to be offensive. That bothered me because it was rape as tittilation.

I'm such a horrible person because EVERYTHING technical about that piece is AMAZING! the blending, the conversions, sculpting, basing, everything! But I feel like such a cretin for liking that diorama because of the subject matter.

Well...that's probably a topic for another forum altogether. But I, like a lot of women, am bothered by graphic and/or realistic depictions of rape or near rape . I think it's just a chemical thing in our brains that makes us go NOPE THAT'S NOT ENJOYABLE TO LOOK AT.

My edit on that post clarifies my point, because the original version of that message made it seem like I like the content lol.

But that guy has done several other pieces, one of which was humans being enslaved by Dark Eldar, just as technically sound without the rapey undertones. That artist in general is a fantastic painter, but gets a lot of recognition because of his racey content.

Well yeah, it was technically lovely. I just didn't like looking at it.