nosferatu1001 wrote:Fling - you see that part where you can put up to half the units in your force in reserve? You didnt address that part - you know, the actual part that matters.
K, so lets address this, and talk about permissions.
Non-Existent Rule
Something that I have read throughout this thread that the Anti-
DWA camp has referred to is the 50% rule. Nothing in the
DWA grants permission to override this rule, to which there is no argument. Something they are deliberately avoiding discussing or refuse to address is this 'rule'? Please give me a page number or reference where there rule is supposed to exist? Every time it is brought up, and I've gone to look for it, I simply cannot find it. So it either exists or there really are that many people who think that there is a rule in place without looking for it themselves.
Reserves 'Permission'
Now there is the Reserves Special rule, which has a restriction limiting players to keeping half of their units as reserves... when deploying their armies... when using the reserves rule... in missions that have the reserves rule...
Before we get to the Reserves rule, just a quick look at the Mission Special rules. Right at the top of p.124, we learn that Eternal War missions use unique rules that 'confer extra abilities, restrictions or effects onto your games.' These rules are
Night Fighting, Reserves, and Mysterious Objectives. A quick glance at all 6 of the Eternal War missions reveals that they all use the Night Fighting, and Reserves rule. 2 of them don't use the Mysterious Objectives, so naturally we don't apply those rules, to those missions. No permission is given by the Mission Special rules to apply them to all games. So the
RAW remains, only missions that have the Reserves rule are when we are granted permission to use them as Reserves. (More on this later)
Now, the Reserves rule is broken down into 2 sub-categories. Preparing Reserves, and Arriving by Reserve (which we'll come back to later). The part relevant to the
DWA debate is part of the preparing Reserves, which is the only place in the
BRB where the 50% restriction is defined. It is a restriction, but it is a restriction that has a condition attached to it. The condition is 'when deploying their armies'. This is the extent of the application of the 50% restriction. The
RAW clearly states when deploying their army, not during deployment. There is no permission given by the Reserves rule, to have this restriction extend to anything beyond when you are actually at the deploying models on the table. In order for the 50% restriction to apply outside of this step, the Reserves rule would have to permit the restriction to apply outside of deploying forces. If such a thing exists, then it would become a rule and would then also apply regardless of whether the Reserves rule is in use.
Deployment vs. Deploying Forces
Now it appears that the Anti-
DWA camp is treating these as one and the same. Anything that happens during 'Deployment' is also 'Deploying Forces'. Anything that happens during 'Deployment' as defined on page p.121. This includes the 'Determine Warlord Traits'. Since we are in 'Deployment' the Reserves rule must also be in effect. Even though the
DWA rule states that the units must declare they are taking advantage of this after determining Warlord Traits, it has already passed into 'Deployment', so the Reserves restriction applies to
DWA. This would be a possible interpretation, if there wasn't any other
RAW to directly contradict this. For starters, 'Deploy Forces' happens after determining Warlord traits. So the
RAW now confirms that Deployment, and Deploying Forces are different. Deploying Forces is a sub-step of 'Deployment'.
Reserves and Timing
So now we jump back to Reserves and to when the Reserves rule is actually in effect. Since it is a Mission Special rule, it applies to the Mission but we have no clear indication of WHEN it is applied. Night Fighting is pretty clear, check before deployment, and if that doesn't trigger it, start on the appropriate turns. Mysterious Objectives is also very explicit when it is applied. Both of these rules also state that they apply when they are being used. This specific permission is absent from the Reserves rule. There are two possible outcomes, the first is the obviously absurd conclusion that it never gets used because it has no timing listed, and no permission clarifying 'In missions using...' or 'When using reserves...'. The second is that it applies in missions that use it, but we're still unclear as to when it actually starts in effect. All we have to go on per the rules on p.124, are the words 'when deploying forces'.
Speculation starts, and it becomes pretty universally accepted that it is in effect during Deployment. There hasn't been any rule or unit that would challenge the timing of reserves until
DWA came along. So we need to actually take a look at when the Reserves restriction applies. What we DO have, is a guide on p148 of the Mini
RB. (Just realized this might be a different page in the full
BRB since it is in the back.) This is the only place I've been able to find in print, any resolution of when the Reserves rule applies, and as a result the 50% restriction. It happens during the deploy forces step, after rolling to see who deploys first. Players deploy their entire forces excluding Infiltrating units and units being kept as reserve.
Like it or not it's written, and whether or not you agree that it is a summary and does not apply because it's not listed under the rule, it's still written and removes any speculation. So following the Reserves rule, the 50% restriction applies during this sub-step, and not before, and not after. There is no permission for that restriction to apply to any point beyond this.
So what about Deep Strike?
Next up is whether the Deep Strike rule falls under the Reserves coverage, including the 50% restriction. This is the 'fall back' point that the Anti-
DWA camp is trying to use since Deep Strike states that the units must start in Reserve.
The Deep Strike rule is no longer a part of the Reserves rule as it was in previous editions. The Reserves rule does grant permission to the Deep Strike rule under 'Arriving from Reserve'. So the Anti-
DWA camp thinks that since no permission is given by the Reserves rule to allow units arriving by Deep Strike, they are subject to the Reserves rule, along with the 50% restriction. Reading the Deep Strike rule, however reveals that units arriving by Deep Strike must start the game in Reserve. This grants permission for Deep Striking units to use the Reserves rule regardless of deployment and unrestricted to the Reserves rule being used in the mission. This appears to be an odd approach to looking at it, but only because it hasn't been an issue until the Dark Angel Codex arrived. As written, units using Deep Strike, start the game in reserve. Nothing is addressed about HOW they get into reserve using the Deep Strike rule.
Reserves AND Deep Strike
Since the Deep Strike rule doesn't state how units are placed in Reserve, we have to take a quick look at how units get to Deep Strike under the rules, and Reserves. No one has any problems with this, but in short, unless a Codex grants a unit a different method of entering reserve/Deep Strike, they will have to wait till deploying forces, then choose to Deep Strike at this time.
Terminators vs. Dark Angel Terminators
'Normal' Terminators are the most common unit that will be able to use Deep Strike outside of the 50% restriction. With the exception of Space Wolves and Dark Angels, Terminators may always enter play from reserves, even when the Reserves rule is not being used, and must usually enter play using Deep Strike. The wording in the separate Codexes may vary slightly, but the path that they arrive follows the normal pattern. When deploying terminators, you always use the Reserves rule, then you have to declare that they are entering play by Deep Strike. The individual Codex grants permission to override the 50% restriction, but still uses the reserves rule to get there. Which they had to do under the edition rules they were designed for.
Under the 6th edition Codexes written so far, Chaos Terminators did not gain this ability, and Dark Angels lost this ability. There is no doubt about Dark Angel Terminators not being able to always use the reserves rule to Deep Strike. This does not prevent them from using another method to enter play, that would be another restriction.
Deathwing Assault and Permission
Now lets address what Permission Deathwing Assault IS granting to players. Units of Terminators in a Dark Angel army
ALL have the option to use this.
DWA tells us first that units 'may' use this ability. It's a choice to use
DWA or not. It's not a choice to enter via Deep Strike, or enter via Reserves, so can we stop pretending that since it's a choice, it somehow links them to the 50% restriction? There is no rule in either the
BRB, or the
DA Codex that makes that connection. Just like normal terminators 'may' always use the reserves rule. It's an option to use the the rule. If the word 'may' is removed, then Terminators with that rule, would always have to Deep Strike, and not be able to even start on the board.
Back to the debate about
DWA not giving permission to ALWAYS do this? It doesn't need to as it already grants all the permission it needs to be used against any rules that it comes into conflict with. I will concede that it would've been simpler to add the word 'always' to
DWA, but it's not necessary.
DWA happens at a time that could be anything since it doesn't fall under any step, and gives the impression that it creates it's own step. The anti-
DWA camp thinks that since this falls under deployment, the Reserves restriction is in place. We already showed that deployment isn't the same thing as deploying forces. Since
DWA specifically mentions a time that is NOT deploying forces, there is no 50% restriction in place for them to need permission to override it, and we already showed that there is no 50% deployment rule (independent from Reserves).
Next, the
DWA specifically states that the chosen units will enter play via Deep Strike. It's the first case of using the Deep Strike rule to be placed in reserve. Since there is no mention made of the Reserves rule until you get to the actual application of Deep Strike, the 50% restriction never got a chance to even be brought into the picture. The
DWA rule grants permission to put units into reserve using the Deep Strike rule, and not using the Reserves rules to Deep Strike like the other Terminators can.
The final reference to reserves in the
DWA is arriving from reserve. At this point they are already in reserve, before deploying forces. When the game starts they are still subject to all the rules for 'Arriving from Reserves'. It's not until this time that the
DWA gives us our final two permissions. The first being the arrival on Turn 1 or Turn 2. We don't check for the second permission till we get to the chosen turn, and that is they automatically come in. The time to apply the 50% restriction has already passed, and without this reference, they would have to roll being subject to the Reserves rule. There is no link between this permission and somehow implying that they can only be here so long as there is not more than 50% in reserve.
Final Conclusion
DWA has all the permissions that it needs as written. If a Dark Angel player chooses to apply the 50% restriction, he is not prevented from doing so because
DWA is an option, not a requirement. An individual's choice to do so doesn't mean that all Dark Angel players have to play the same way when the
RAW grants permission to do so. It feels like the Anti-
DWA camp has attempted to make it appear like a case of 'Well the
DWA rule doesn't say I can't do it", when in actuality it's a rare case of 'Where is the permission allowing the 50% restriction to apply to everything outside of deploying forces, to anything attempting to use any reference to the Reserves rule'? There is no 50% deployment rule, if there is please give a page reference. Anything that happens outside of deploying forces, cannot be subject to the restriction, because permission has to first be given to happen outside of deploying forces in the first place. Something that, convieniently,
DWA specifically addresses.
This debate will not end until
GW FaQ's that
DWA does allow more than the 50% restriction, or errata's the rule to be affected by the 50% restriction. Until then, by
RAW, they should be allowed to do so. Event Organizers are always free to dictate which way the game is played, and they always have the final word in their events so I have no doubts there will be disappointment regardless of the
RAW.
-Akar
Edit: Clarifacation
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In a dog eat dog be a cat. 
