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Nivek I checked back and I can't see answers to these questions:

Do both player have their turns at the same time or do we do it one at time?

Therefore during your turn am I having my turn?

When you roll for steal the initiative am I having my turn?

By the same logic do we deploy our armies at the same time or do we do it one at a time?

Therefore when you are deploying your army whilst your opponent is deploying his?

Therefore are you deploying your army when you are rolling of to see who deploys their army first?

Therefore are you deploying your army when you are declaring.g DWA

 FlingitNow wrote:
Do both player have their turns at the same time or do we do it one at time?

Irrelevant, but one at a time.

<Snip a bunch of irrelevant rhetorical questions>

Therefore are you deploying your army when you are declaring.g DWA

Yes, absolutely.

You keep pretending that once you start making deployment decisions you are the only one allowed to deploy until your entire army is done.
Infiltrators prove you wrong.

Sorry so you are saying I am deploying my army whilst making DWA?!?!? Even though the rules tell you to do this one at a time? And who ever does this first goes first.

So ignore the first 3 questions. Answer the others. Or concede.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Sorry so you are saying I am deploying my army whilst making DWA?!?!? Even though the rules tell you to do this one at a time? And who ever does this first goes first.

So ignore the first 3 questions. Answer the others. Or concede.

They've been answered in the thread. Not directly - you'd have to read my posts and understand them to know that they've been answered.

> By the same logic do we deploy our armies at the same time or do we do it one at a time?
One at a time. DWA allows you to make a deployment decision out of "phase" as it were - not at the normal time.

> Therefore when you are deploying your army whilst your opponent is deploying his?
Um... strange question. No.

> Therefore are you deploying your army when you are rolling of to see who deploys their army first?
Again, strange question. No.

> Therefore are you deploying your army when you are declaring.g DWA
Yes.

Now, before responding please slow down and read over your post to make sure it's clear. It seems like you're getting angry/frustrated and this is destroying the readability of your posts.

Thank you rigeld for answering me I think I am understanding your argument now:

DWA breaks the sequence on who deploy first and allows you to make an out of sequence deployment. But this doesn't count for who deploy first because that is who finished deploying first except for reserves and infiltrating because they don't count because you already made a decision on them.

Is that correct?

Essentially yes. And I said almost exactly those words earlier in the thread.

Where are you getting that deployment decision = deployment of unit?

 FlingitNow wrote:
Where are you getting that deployment decision = deployment of unit?

If it didn't and you opted to place a unit in Reserves you would never finish deployment.

Why given that reserves specifically states it is done instead of deploying a unit?

And that means it's a deployment decision.

Situation 1: You have 2 units. You must deploy both units to continue. You place one in Reserves instead of deploying it. Since this isn't deployment you can never continue.

Situation 2: You have 2 units. You must deploy both units to continue. You place one in Reserves instead of deploying it. Since that was a valid deployment decision you may deploy the 2nd one and continue.


You're positing that Situation 1 is true.

No situation 3.

I must deploy 2 units. I put first unit in reserve the reserves rule specifically tells me that this replaces deploying the unit.

Putting a unit in reserve =/= deploying. It is a special rule that allows you to do something different instead (replacing deployment).

 FlingitNow wrote:
No situation 3.

I must deploy 2 units. I put first unit in reserve the reserves rule specifically tells me that this replaces deploying the unit.

Putting a unit in reserve =/= deploying. It is a special rule that allows you to do something different instead (replacing deployment).

If putting a unit into reserves is not deploying, then you haven't deployed that unit.
You're required to deploy your army. You may have danced like a chicken instead of deploying but unless that's a deployment choice and counts for deployment you haven't deployed the unit.

Yes you haven't deployed the unit. Why? Because the rules tell us that you haven't. You normally deploy all your units when deploying your army the reserves rule breaks this rule be allowing you to instead reserve half of those units.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Yes you haven't deployed the unit. Why? Because the rules tell us that you haven't. You normally deploy all your units when deploying your army the reserves rule breaks this rule be allowing you to instead reserve half of those units.

So you have not deployed your entire army?
I understand that you put a unit in Reserves instead of deploying it at the beginning.
It's still a decision that affects your deployment.

Yes it effects your deployment because those units do not get deployed. So yes you haven't deployed your entire army, because the rules tell you that you haven't.

Irrelevant of what and when you choose to do what with your army, it's as simple as this. Unless your units are not allowed to enter on turn one due to having to start in reserves, IE flyers, then you must deploy at least half your forces rounding up. No where in the dark angel codex do you have the statement or rule that they don't have a choice to start on the table nor come in on turn one there fore you must follow the 50% rule till either FAQ, or something miraculous happens.

No amount of arguing will ever change my mind or the others here who have ruled on the side of logic.

YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE NOTHING ON THE TABLE AT THE START OF THE GAME...

There's no way in heck GW made this codex with this rules quandary so you and only this codex can circumvent a rule designed for fairness. No more "I'm not deploying since I didn't win the roll off crap.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Yes it effects your deployment because those units do not get deployed. So yes you haven't deployed your entire army, because the rules tell you that you haven't.

But that is still making a valid deployment decision for that unit.

Lungpickle wrote:
Irrelevant of what and when you choose to do what with your army, it's as simple as this. Unless your units are not allowed to enter on turn one due to having to start in reserves, IE flyers, then you must deploy at least half your forces rounding up. No where in the dark angel codex do you have the statement or rule that they don't have a choice to start on the table nor come in on turn one there fore you must follow the 50% rule till either FAQ, or something miraculous happens.

No amount of arguing will ever change my mind or the others here who have ruled on the side of logic.

YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE NOTHING ON THE TABLE AT THE START OF THE GAME...

There's no way in heck GW made this codex with this rules quandary so you and only this codex can circumvent a rule designed for fairness. No more "I'm not deploying since I didn't win the roll off crap.

You got it backwards pickleLung!!!

you are allowed to keep in reserves up to half of your army rounding up, not counting units that are ignored.

As has been demonstrated previously by me and others, there is no 50% rule, it is a false statement, a myth that never existed. I clearly explained that you can have well over 50% of you army in reserve at the start of the game.
It is obvious that you have no concept of what the Reserve rule actually says, as you have constantly referred to a rule that does not exist.

I thought this forum was about what the rules actually say and not the proposed rules?


You say, that "No amount of arguing will ever change my mind or the others here who have ruled on the side of logic." and that is fine so why do you keep arguing yourself?

 DeathReaper wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:
Yes it effects your deployment because those units do not get deployed. So yes you haven't deployed your entire army, because the rules tell you that you haven't.

But that is still making a valid deployment decision for that unit.

Thank you deathleaper for proving that by rigelds definition of deployment can not be correct. As in this instance you have made a deployment decision and we know you have not deployed that unit and therefore a deployment decision can not be deployment.

 FlingitNow wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:
Yes it effects your deployment because those units do not get deployed. So yes you haven't deployed your entire army, because the rules tell you that you haven't.

But that is still making a valid deployment decision for that unit.

Thank you deathleaper for proving that by rigelds definition of deployment can not be correct. As in this instance you have made a deployment decision and we know you have not deployed that unit and therefore a deployment decision can not be deployment.

and therefore you could never finish deploying. so that view must be incorrect.

P.S. up to half = 50%...

Deathreaper have you read the reserves rule? Yes there are some units that don't get deployed because this rule specifically overrides deployment of all your units. As it tells you that you can do something with up to half your units instead of deploying them (which means they are not being deployed because you've done something else INSTEAD). The clues are all there in the rules.

40k-noob wrote:
As has been demonstrated previously by me and others, there is no 50% rule, it is a false statement, a myth that never existed.

And as has been explained both sides use it as shorthand. Instead of insulting people, how about dropping this part of your "argument"?

rigeld2 wrote:

40k-noob wrote:
As has been demonstrated previously by me and others, there is no 50% rule, it is a false statement, a myth that never existed.

And as has been explained both sides use it as shorthand. Instead of insulting people, how about dropping this part of your "argument"?

When did I insult anyone?

so being wrong about a rule makes it ok because both sides use it?

After reading the Reserves rule umpteen times because of this thread I realize that it just makes things worse because it leads to an incorrect understanding of the rule.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Deathreaper have you read the reserves rule?.

Of course I have, why are you even asking?

Yes there are some units that don't get deployed because this rule specifically overrides deployment of all your units.

Correct, you do not have to deploy all of your units.

As it tells you that you can do something with up to half your units instead of deploying them (which means they are not being deployed because you've done something else INSTEAD)..

the underlined is the important part.

The clues are all there in the rules.

Indeed they are, so why do you insist on putting more than 50% of your units into reserves?

40k-noob wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

40k-noob wrote:
As has been demonstrated previously by me and others, there is no 50% rule, it is a false statement, a myth that never existed.

And as has been explained both sides use it as shorthand. Instead of insulting people, how about dropping this part of your "argument"?

When did I insult anyone?

Saying that everyone is perpetuating a myth is insulting. It's tantamount to calling someone a liar. I know that's not your intent.

so being wrong about a rule makes it ok because both sides use it?

No one has been "wrong" about the rule. We just shorten it to the 50% rule because that's a hell of a lot easier than typing "half of your units rounded up".

After reading the Reserves rule umpteen times because of this thread I realize that it just makes things worse because it leads to an incorrect understanding of the rule.

It really doesn't.

To answer your last question because the rules allow me to.

 FlingitNow wrote:
To answer your last question because the rules allow me to.

Where, in the DWA rules, do they override the 50%?

Citation needed. Page and Graph please.

They don't have to. The two rules do not interact. For the 50% rule to be active you can must be deploying your army and as you've already proven this can not be the case.

So page number and citation that DWA is part of deploying your forces.

So you have 2 choices. Our interpretation which follows all the rules in the order you're told to use them.

Or Rigelds interpretation which requires using rules at times you are not permitted. Creating definitions that contradict the rules and causing all sorts of sequencing issues.

 FlingitNow wrote:

Or Rigelds interpretation which requires using rules at times you are not permitted. Creating definitions that contradict the rules and causing all sorts of sequencing issues.

It really doesn't, no matter what you want to pretend.

Where, in the DWA rules, do they override the 50%?

Where, in the DWA rules, do they use the Reserve mission special rule in the first place?

Citation needed. Page and Graph please

DWA arrives by deepstrike, DWA are NEVER making a deep strike. Also, they arrive with no need to roll for reserve. Reserve and reserve are different things.

Units making a deep strike must use the Reserve special rule. Units arriving by deep strike but not making a deep strike do not use the Reserve mission special rule.

This all boils down to the anti-DWA side claiming that DWA uses the Reserves mission special rule in order to make a DWA. This has no RAW backing, as you can be placed in reserve with a special rule other than the Reserve special rule. Because we have precedent for codex special rules placing units in reserve without the Reserve special rule being used, and DWA does not use nor need the Reserve mission special rule to be refrenced in the Dark Angels rule writeup, it is crazy to apply a random mission special rule to a self contained codex special rule.