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Ok so I dropped out of 40k at the beginning of 6th ed because my group was into other games (Infinity, boardgames, etc...) at the time and I just never upgraded. Now they're cycling around to getting 40K started again and I'm left feeling kinda hamstrung as I got rid of my smaller armies and just kept my Eldar. I just can't get a good list off the ground with them now. I have most options for them at my disposal and they just get trounced repeatedly. Vehicles torn to shreds with the new vehicle HP rules. Assaults just cant get there at all and even if they do they prove ineffective aginst most anything. Not to mention I repeatetly get devastated by flying MCs and Fliers in general.

And now I just learned that I can't even buff from inside vehicles anymore. Its getting rather troublesome and ridiculous. So keep trying and deal or just bow out of 40K for now and hope and pray for a new and better codex? No no, that's just loser talk I guess I'm just really unsure what to do with this edition.

I do feel sorry for eldar players, probably the worse codex in 6th unless you add dark kin allies.

The latest faq put out the other day nerfed them even more :(

Yeah, I don't get what that nerf was about, at all. It only made sure the Eldar army works the way it's supposed to work. Now, with Eldrad being removed from the table instantly because he isn't allowed inside a vehicle anymore, it doesn't work at all anymore.

You can't even guide your Dire Avengers and doom the squad they are going to shoot at anymore. That was one of my favourite things to do, wiping a marine squad in one turn.

Some units got better, like Swooping Hawks with Jump Troop rules and haywire grenades.

Others got worse:
Farseers cannot cast from vehicles anymore.
DAVU is now not a scoring unit, unless the passengers are outside the transport.
Vehicles with a vulnerable rear-end get smashed up in cc.
Rapid Fire got buffed, but Assault weapons didn't.
Heavy weapons get to snap shoot when moving, so everyone now gets a form of the Guardian weapon platforms rule.
Grenades can be thrown now, but most Eldar troops can't get them.
Assaults from vehicles are out, if you start embarked.
Power weapons now have AP values, not ignore armour (some units get to keep that, though).
Fleet is a re-roll for move rolls, not an extra move.
Vehicle damage has changed a lot, so most vehicle upgrades are useless.
Psychic attacks can be saved against.

Others that get better:
Jump troops and jet bikes get a free attack when charging.
Overwatch now lets the target unit fire on charging units. Handy for Guardians and DAs.
The many S6 weapons Eldar get are more useful for taking out vehicles.
Sniper rules make Rangers and Pathfinders better. You sometimes get to choose the model you shoot at.

So, Eldar took a lot of hits, but there are some gems in the codex now.
Old builds got torn up.
It's time to rebuild Eldar lists from scratch.

Mr.Church13 wrote:
Ok so I dropped out of 40k at the beginning of 6th ed because my group was into other games (Infinity, boardgames, etc...) at the time and I just never upgraded. Now they're cycling around to getting 40K started again and I'm left feeling kinda hamstrung as I got rid of my smaller armies and just kept my Eldar. I just can't get a good list off the ground with them now. I have most options for them at my disposal and they just get trounced repeatedly. Vehicles torn to shreds with the new vehicle HP rules. Assaults just cant get there at all and even if they do they prove ineffective aginst most anything. Not to mention I repeatetly get devastated by flying MCs and Fliers in general.

And now I just learned that I can't even buff from inside vehicles anymore. Its getting rather troublesome and ridiculous. So keep trying and deal or just bow out of 40K for now and hope and pray for a new and better codex? No no, that's just loser talk I guess I'm just really unsure what to do with this edition.

Fliers - You have four choices. Either buy forgeworld or allies, the Aegis Quad Gun + Fire Dragon exarch is useful as he has tank hunter + crack shot. so 4 shots, hit on a 2+, with re-rolls. The gun is str7, with re-rolls against armour. Then crack shot prevents evading (no cover saves IIRC).
Or pot shots from whatever can.

You listed you have 2000 of Iyanden - Have you tried this?
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/500450.page

The wraithguard squad referred to in that thread will hold an objective forever.

I'd also look at the wraithseer if you're Iyanden - gives off a 12" no wraithguard gets stupid bubble, can give wraithguard 4+fnp and any wraith consturcts near him get to -1 of your opponants cover saves. And he gets a d-cannon. I tend to take 3 wraithlords, the wraithseer and 10 wraithguard. 7 heavy weapons that get -1 off coversaves and a squad that will not die.

I've not had any luck assaulting myself so I've changed my plan. I will now sit there and absorb all shooting, while firing heavy weapons.
Then I will use planes to clear enemy objectives of troops.
If you want planes (there are rumours of an eldar flier feb or march http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/499861.page)

I'd make nightwings - the dark eldar razorwing should be a fairly easy conversion - just leave the missiles off, swap the splinter cannons for shuriken cannons, the dark lances for bright lances and it's done. And it has a 2+ evade.

There are still other builds from the codex that can be viable, this is just my favourite.

Guess your meta is more hardcore than mine, I've been running a 3:1 win rate, including wins against Chaos Daemon lists but then there is very few WAAC gamers at my FLGS.

More for Others that get better:

Phoenix Lords, 2+ saves and LoS make them pretty awesome, especially Karandras and Fuegan
Jink Saves on stuff and glances not rolling on the damage table make vehicles that much more reliable, also they're faster
Jetbikes are the fastest scoring unit in the game bar none, up to 60" movement a turn
Warp Spiders are so much more usable for many reasons.

I think basically Eldar cannot build a MSU army anymore, except MAYBE with Jetbikes but at least they are so much faster and S6 is scarier in 6th than they were in 5th.

By any chance do you feel like posting some of your lists?

My group does tend to flow more to the hardcore than I'd like, but it is what it is. I didn't think of that firedragon combo, so it looks as if getting an agis will be a sound investment.

Also I really have access to every option with the exception of wraith stuff, I just never really cared for the models, and bikes (Truth be told I'm holding out for better bike models.). Everything else I have. Also I'm updating my sig because I now have way over 2000pts of eldar and nothing of the others.

I'll try to post a list or two after work today.

Codex eldar have been getting hammered by 6th. In addition to the listed nerfs, there are more. They wont exchange powers due to the necessity of fortune/doom, Cover saves are worse (more important for 4- armies, especially mobile ones), HP really hurts war walkers, no way to get rid of Vendettas or AV12 fliers (3x3 guided scatter war walkers does~2 HP per turn with 72 shots), and outflank was nerfed for SS and assaulty war walkers (you dont know how many times i have locked a devi squad after shooting it mostly down to keep my walkers alive). HOW attacks on jetbikes are S3, so pretty much irrelevant.


Enter my reasoning on Forgeworld. The eldar codex is at the border of being irrelevant in tourneys. FW brings it back into relevance again. Between Nightwings and Warp Hunters there is now cost effective ways to deal with heavies armor (both 2+ and AV14) and other fliers. I have always ran my eldar as a corsair army lead by Yriel so when IA11 came out i was so happy (though for some reason you cant take Yriel in the corsair army.......)

If you're looking to win, I'd suggest revisiting the wraith unit with wraithseer. It really is ridiculously hard to hurt. I've played a couple times with a list with Eldrad, the Wraithseer, and a unit of 10 wraith guard in at 1500 points and in one game I lost a single wraith guard from the unit and in the other they went totally unscathed.

In response to Zephoid, the non-FW codex might be lacking in true AA but at least we're not Tyranids. I mean, we can avoid fliers with boosting skimmers, we can hit rear armour with outflanked Walkers (good now that we can cast psychic powers after outflanking) and don't forget we have some of the best ADL gunners in the form of Dark Reaper and Fire Dragon Exarchs.

Well, I played a few games with Eldar in the new edition. Mech Eldar can still work if you have enough skimmers on the board. Another option is foot slogging Eldar. I ran a Seer Council joined by Fuegan and a large Harlie squad. Both units are almost impossible to stop before they reach the enemy front ranks. They ripped off an BA and Tau army.

Without throwing my whole lists out there (because I do not have them handy right now) Here are some concepts you might want to look at building a list around.

- Fuegan with 5 Harlequins and Shadowseer + Fortune-seer.
2+ re-rollable, FNP, EW, Look-out sir on a 2+, a re-rollable 5++ on the Harlies. Fuegan has crack shot and tank hunter BS7. Can use smash in CC.

- 2 Squads of 6-7 Warp Spiders

- Grab a Bastion, one Squad of Dark Reapers and a Farseer and you really hope for "Perfect timing" or take Eldrad, swap all powers for book powers and hope for the best. A squad of Reapers which ignore ALL cover. is just nasty.

- Always stick at least one 3-man unit of jetbikes for late game objectives. Keep them in reserve to protect them as long as possible.

Given the state of the Eldar I have 0 guilt of taking 40K approved units from FW.

- For Heavy Support, take a pair of Warp Hunters and a Night Spinner.

- Use three Hornets with Pulse Lasers

Seer Council w/ tons of Destructors and Singing Spears + War Walker Spam still kick peoples' faces in

Until someone assaults either. Esp with terminators. 2+ saves wreck seer councils and are cheaper.

Terminators drop in and have to be huddled together. 6 Destructors will wipe them out. Seer Councils are mobile enough that they should never be assaulted by Terminators. Scatter Laser spam is awesome enough to make Terminators fail saves too.

I've faced armies with 3 squads of terminators and won with this style of army. While it's definitely tough it is still truely doable.

 Erik_Morkai wrote:
Without throwing my whole lists out there (because I do not have them handy right now) Here are some concepts you might want to look at building a list around.

- Fuegan with 5 Harlequins and Shadowseer + Fortune-seer.
2+ re-rollable, FNP, EW, Look-out sir on a 2+, a re-rollable 5++ on the Harlies. Fuegan has crack shot and tank hunter BS7. Can use smash in CC.

- 2 Squads of 6-7 Warp Spiders

- Grab a Bastion, one Squad of Dark Reapers and a Farseer and you really hope for "Perfect timing" or take Eldrad, swap all powers for book powers and hope for the best. A squad of Reapers which ignore ALL cover. is just nasty.

- Always stick at least one 3-man unit of jetbikes for late game objectives. Keep them in reserve to protect them as long as possible.

Given the state of the Eldar I have 0 guilt of taking 40K approved units from FW.

- For Heavy Support, take a pair of Warp Hunters and a Night Spinner.

- Use three Hornets with Pulse Lasers

Fuegan can't join Harlequins. He can only join a unit of fire dragons if I recall. All of the phoenix lords have the "only join their own aspect" restriction.

Warp spiders are one of the better units for Eldar but don't seem to get much press. A squad of 10 is expensive but will almost always kill more than its cost, with their 22 ST6 shots, and you can normally charge the survivors of the initial shooting and finish off the squad (or tie them up during their turn and jump back out during your own).

Guided Dark Reapers are a nightmare for MEQ armies. Guided,Fortuned Dark Reapers in an ADL even more so. For an extra dose of bad-ass, swap the Farseer for Eldrad and Doom the unit being shot at!!!

 ClassicCarraway wrote:

 Erik_Morkai wrote:
Without throwing my whole lists out there (because I do not have them handy right now) Here are some concepts you might want to look at building a list around.

- Fuegan with 5 Harlequins and Shadowseer + Fortune-seer.
2+ re-rollable, FNP, EW, Look-out sir on a 2+, a re-rollable 5++ on the Harlies. Fuegan has crack shot and tank hunter BS7. Can use smash in CC.

- 2 Squads of 6-7 Warp Spiders

- Grab a Bastion, one Squad of Dark Reapers and a Farseer and you really hope for "Perfect timing" or take Eldrad, swap all powers for book powers and hope for the best. A squad of Reapers which ignore ALL cover. is just nasty.

- Always stick at least one 3-man unit of jetbikes for late game objectives. Keep them in reserve to protect them as long as possible.

Given the state of the Eldar I have 0 guilt of taking 40K approved units from FW.

- For Heavy Support, take a pair of Warp Hunters and a Night Spinner.

- Use three Hornets with Pulse Lasers

Fuegan can't join Harlequins. He can only join a unit of fire dragons if I recall. All of the phoenix lords have the "only join their own aspect" restriction.

Warp spiders are one of the better units for Eldar but don't seem to get much press. A squad of 10 is expensive but will almost always kill more than its cost, with their 22 ST6 shots, and you can normally charge the survivors of the initial shooting and finish off the squad (or tie them up during their turn and jump back out during your own).

Guided Dark Reapers are a nightmare for MEQ armies. Guided,Fortuned Dark Reapers in an ADL even more so. For an extra dose of bad-ass, swap the Farseer for Eldrad and Doom the unit being shot at!!!

Fuegan: No, they still haven't FAQed that. He can't join OTHER aspects, but he can join his own or non-aspect squads.
Warp Spiders: Hit & Run requires the Exarch to be alive, keeping him alive is hard due to challenges. They are one of my favourites, though, but they're not really 22ppm calibre.
Dark Reapers: I've never had a list or battle where I'd think "wish I'd spent 120 points on three models with two-shot S5 guns". Yes, they get the job done, but they are far from worth their points and are so stationary that it's silly. If I faced them with my PA-army I'd stick two drop pods of Tacticals behind near turn 1 or 2 for greater and cheaper effect.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:

 Erik_Morkai wrote:
Without throwing my whole lists out there (because I do not have them handy right now) Here are some concepts you might want to look at building a list around.

- Fuegan with 5 Harlequins and Shadowseer + Fortune-seer.
2+ re-rollable, FNP, EW, Look-out sir on a 2+, a re-rollable 5++ on the Harlies. Fuegan has crack shot and tank hunter BS7. Can use smash in CC.

- 2 Squads of 6-7 Warp Spiders

- Grab a Bastion, one Squad of Dark Reapers and a Farseer and you really hope for "Perfect timing" or take Eldrad, swap all powers for book powers and hope for the best. A squad of Reapers which ignore ALL cover. is just nasty.

- Always stick at least one 3-man unit of jetbikes for late game objectives. Keep them in reserve to protect them as long as possible.

Given the state of the Eldar I have 0 guilt of taking 40K approved units from FW.

- For Heavy Support, take a pair of Warp Hunters and a Night Spinner.

- Use three Hornets with Pulse Lasers

Fuegan can't join Harlequins. He can only join a unit of fire dragons if I recall. All of the phoenix lords have the "only join their own aspect" restriction.

Warp spiders are one of the better units for Eldar but don't seem to get much press. A squad of 10 is expensive but will almost always kill more than its cost, with their 22 ST6 shots, and you can normally charge the survivors of the initial shooting and finish off the squad (or tie them up during their turn and jump back out during your own).

Guided Dark Reapers are a nightmare for MEQ armies. Guided,Fortuned Dark Reapers in an ADL even more so. For an extra dose of bad-ass, swap the Farseer for Eldrad and Doom the unit being shot at!!!

All Phoenix Lords can join non-Aspect (Harlequins, Guardians, Seer Council, Wraithguard).

10 Warp Spiders is great but it's the deep strike footprint that is bothering me. 10 models take up alot of space. 6-7 is still manageable in small spots.

 Erik_Morkai wrote:


10 Warp Spiders is great but it's the deep strike footprint that is bothering me. 10 models take up alot of space. 6-7 is still manageable in small spots.

Considering the new "range-to-wound" rules, Warp Spiders have become garbage like the rest of the codex.

No one should be playing Eldar now.

 Marzillius wrote:
Yeah, I don't get what that nerf was about, at all. It only made sure the Eldar army works the way it's supposed to work. Now, with Eldrad being removed from the table instantly because he isn't allowed inside a vehicle anymore, it doesn't work at all anymore.

You can't even guide your Dire Avengers and doom the squad they are going to shoot at anymore. That was one of my favourite things to do, wiping a marine squad in one turn.

haha, are you serious? You're complaint is that now you can't wipe a full squad of marines in a single turn? I'm pretty sure that you arent supposed to be able to do that barring some very dedicated units like vindicators. And those units that can are supposed to be slow, expencive and have little other function.



Foot eldar is still decent, its just got a few less of the point and obliterate tricks that you seem to miss. When you want to destroy a unit in one turn, you should have to mass firepower at it; else make some serious considerations about opportunity cost (IE; be willing to sacrifice a sternguard squad, or expose a battlewagon full of flamers to heavy fire.

Eldar still have among the best psychic defence in the game, very powerfull sniping units and stupid good weapons.

Except the DA don't get to shoot the next turn...or Overwatch...it's a pretty good trade off, but it's for sure weakened now

davou wrote:

haha, are you serious? You're complaint is that now you can't wipe a full squad of marines in a single turn? I'm pretty sure that you arent supposed to be able to do that

He was being hyperbolic. Even with Guide and Doom, 10 Avengers need pretty extreme luck to kill 10 Marines.

davou wrote:

Foot eldar is still decent,

Bwahahahahahahaha. No.

Flyers???
Dude just use a forgeworld book. Forgeworld isnt apoc only and you eldar get one of the best flyers in the game.

Most people aren't happy with people using forgeworld against them. It's fine if they play with it, but not ok for you.
Also, why should we resort to FW books? Shouldn't we be able to stand the test of time despite the age of the codex?

 Nurgle wrote:
Flyers???
Dude just use a forgeworld book. Forgeworld isnt apoc only and you eldar get one of the best flyers in the game.

Which would that be? The one that gets killed when 10 marines fire bolters at it? Or the one that costs as much as a land raider and dies when 20 marines fire bolters at it?

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
Most people aren't happy with people using forgeworld against them. It's fine if they play with it, but not ok for you.
Also, why should we resort to FW books? Shouldn't we be able to stand the test of time despite the age of the codex?

We should resort to FW books because they're official additions to standard 40k, just like WD updates, FAQs, etc. If you want to stubbornly insist that you're not going to play with anything but the ancient codex just to make a point, you have that right, but that's no different than playing Necrons and insisting on never using their flyers because you think they're overpowered. In either case you're just playing with self-imposed limits that don't apply to everyone else.

(And yes GW's update system sucks, and it would be ideal if every army got a codex for the current edition instead of having to rely on stuff from two editions ago, but this is the real world, not my ideal 40k.)

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Nurgle wrote:
Flyers???
Dude just use a forgeworld book. Forgeworld isnt apoc only and you eldar get one of the best flyers in the game.

Which would that be? The one that gets killed when 10 marines fire bolters at it? Or the one that costs as much as a land raider and dies when 20 marines fire bolters at it?

You forgot the 2+ cover save. To kill a Nightwing you need an average of 216 bolter shots, so good luck with that plan. And even without a cover save at all 10 marines that are somehow within 12" are only averaging about half a HP removed per turn, so you're wildly exaggerating how easy it is to kill one.

Oh, and a Nightwing is only 145 points.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
Most people aren't happy with people using forgeworld against them. It's fine if they play with it, but not ok for you.
Also, why should we resort to FW books? Shouldn't we be able to stand the test of time despite the age of the codex?

We should resort to FW books because they're official additions to standard 40k, just like WD updates, FAQs, etc. If you want to stubbornly insist that you're not going to play with anything but the ancient codex just to make a point, you have that right, but that's no different than playing Necrons and insisting on never using their flyers because you think they're overpowered. In either case you're just playing with self-imposed limits that don't apply to everyone else.

(And yes GW's update system sucks, and it would be ideal if every army got a codex for the current edition instead of having to rely on stuff from two editions ago, but this is the real world, not my ideal 40k.)

I don't mind using forgeworld books for my armies, but tell that to the guy opposite me who is whining about those units being "OP" and "why are you do that!, that isn't 40k approved!!!11!!" I am pointing out the fact that you should be able to play a decent game without them as well as with the books. This is my next question then, why can't I use 40k approved forgeworld stuff in tournaments (not the apoc stuff) ? I am getting limited by others, not by myself.

 Mahtamori wrote:

Dark Reapers: I've never had a list or battle where I'd think "wish I'd spent 120 points on three models with two-shot S5 guns". Yes, they get the job done, but they are far from worth their points and are so stationary that it's silly. If I faced them with my PA-army I'd stick two drop pods of Tacticals behind near turn 1 or 2 for greater and cheaper effect.

That's what a Bastion is for. Reapers in a bastion are pretty much safe from anything but dedicated anti-tank (i.e. melta). The bastion can further play home to your anti-flyer/light tank FD exarch with quad-gun.

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
I don't mind using forgeworld books for my armies, but tell that to the guy opposite me who is whining about those units being "OP" and "why are you do that!, that isn't 40k approved!!!11!!"

Easy. Show them the book where it says it's part of standard 40k, tell them to STFU and stop whining.

I am pointing out the fact that you should be able to play a decent game without them as well as with the books.

Of course you should. The game should be properly balanced, all codices should be immediately updated for each new edition of the game and get regular updates after that, and which source you take your units from (whether codex vs. FW or codex vs. other codex) should not have any impact on your chances of winning. But this isn't the ideal world, GW's update policy sucks, and you're stuck with using the newest books (whether FW or a new codex) if you want to win.

This is my next question then, why can't I use 40k approved forgeworld stuff in tournaments (not the apoc stuff) ? I am getting limited by others, not by myself.

Because the TFGs in your area ban legitimate units from their tournaments. Tell them to stop doing it and play by the rules of standard 40k, not their own special house-ruled "40k".

 Shandara wrote:

That's what a Bastion is for. Reapers in a bastion are pretty much safe from anything but dedicated anti-tank (i.e. melta). The bastion can further play home to your anti-flyer/light tank FD exarch with quad-gun.

Until they take 20 Str 6 hits because a few lascannons shot at it.