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 Peregrine wrote:


You forgot the 2+ cover save. To kill a Nightwing you need an average.../snip

I see this mentioned all over the place so it's probably right, but how do you get a 2+ cover save on a Nightwing?
Evade/jink + Shrouded is 3+?

 Nivoglibina wrote:
I see this mentioned all over the place so it's probably right, but how do you get a 2+ cover save on a Nightwing?
Evade/jink + Shrouded is 3+?

Nightwings also have Agile. So base 5+ from jink, 4+ from agile, 2+ from shrouded. And of course you have a 5+ at all times from shrouded, moving up to a 3+ if you're behind cover.

 Nivoglibina wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:


You forgot the 2+ cover save. To kill a Nightwing you need an average.../snip

I see this mentioned all over the place so it's probably right, but how do you get a 2+ cover save on a Nightwing?
Evade/jink + Shrouded is 3+?

They don't like to mention that it means the Nightwing has to snapfire all of its weapons.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
They don't like to mention that it means the Nightwing has to snapfire all of its weapons.

That's why you only do it when you've received a threatening amount of hits, and snap fire (really, fly off the table and set up for a better shot next turn) is better than being dead. Nightwings are fairly easy to drive off for a turn compared to, say, a Vendetta, but they're incredibly hard to actually kill.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Nivoglibina wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:


You forgot the 2+ cover save. To kill a Nightwing you need an average.../snip

I see this mentioned all over the place so it's probably right, but how do you get a 2+ cover save on a Nightwing?
Evade/jink + Shrouded is 3+?

They don't like to mention that it means the Nightwing has to snapfire all of its weapons.

Yes, it has to snapfire when evading.

I see it as having two roles to fulfill.
1) It shoots things
2) It annoys your opponant enough to make him spend some serious firepower trying to kill it. This takes pressure off other units.

All for 145pts.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I played a few games with Eldar in the new edition. Mech Eldar can still work if you have enough skimmers on the board. Another option is foot slogging Eldar. I ran a Seer Council joined by Fuegan and a large Harlie squad. Both units are almost impossible to stop before they reach the enemy front ranks. They ripped off an BA and Tau army.

dont you have problems with chaos demons and chaos csm armies . both flamers and baleflamer drakes are very good at killing t3 stuff ?

Maybe look at getting The Doom of Mymeara army list from Forgeworld.



That has some pretty cool rules and don't let people fool you they aren't stupid op lists like some people rave and neither are the bad list.

My advice give that a shot so long as its really only friendly games I'm sure you opponents won't mind

And lets be honest who doesn't want to have a Wraithseer as a HQ choice

 Yak9UT wrote:
Maybe look at getting The Doom of Mymeara army list from Forgeworld.



That has some pretty cool rules and don't let people fool you they aren't stupid op lists like some people rave and neither are the bad list.

My advice give that a shot so long as its really only friendly games I'm sure you opponents won't mind

And lets be honest who doesn't want to have a Wraithseer as a HQ choice

Just test out some Warp Hunters (36" Large Blast D-Cannon, Barrage and Hellhound like Template D-Cannon) (While they call it D-Cannon, it's pretty much a Wraithcannon on steroids).
I always have 2 in my lists now as it replaces my Fire Prisms and Falcons. Sometimes I run two Warp Hunters and a Night Spinner.

Hornets with dual-pulse laser or Dual Scatter Lasers for cheap mobile S6 spam (Picture War-Walkers with better armor but fast skimmers and can fire ALL their weapons at cruising speed)

The corsair list from IA11 is very nice - the best part of it for me is that the basic troops have lasblasters as standard - I know it's only str 3 but 24" range on basic troops is unheard of for eldar since 2nd ed.

And they can all have jump packs for jsj.

My only problem with the Corsair list is that while my local tournament scene does allow Forge World, it does not allow Forge World that doesn't have the approved for 40k stamp on it. And I haven't found the approved for 40k stamp on any of the Corsair list. Sad really as I would love to use them.

The Corsair army really suffers from bad HQ and bad Elites, though. While their Troops are actually decent (and what makes them decent is NOT Lasblasters, by the way) and their transports are actually good (let's put it like this; they don't have Rhinos they only have Razorbacks) their HQ and Fast Attack are brilliant.
Ironically Elites come from C:CWE.

HQ options are basically:
An Autarch that costs significantly more than in the C:CWE with no ranged options.
A psycher that has the profile a Warlock should have.
An honour guard for the "Autarch" that is more overpriced than and that is focused on melee.
(The Corsair army is less melee-oriented than Tau and Imperial Guard combined)

So, it's a good list, but not without faults. The only item in there that is what I'd put down as actually priced too low is the Warp Hunter (by the way, a Wraithcannon is not blast, Erik_Morkai, the Hunter D-Cannon is very much a D-Cannon++)

Roadkill Zombie: Most of the critical options are - except the Corsair Guardian replacements and the fact that if you bring Wasps they get 10pts cheaper but lose 1pt BS and becomes FA.
If you want to cheese it out, use minimal HQ and Troop and bring Warp Hunters and Hornets and Nightwings.

Nightwing, by the way, is the most cost effective way to bring Bright Lances to the table for Eldar - if we ignore the fact that it's a flyer, and if we do not ignore it we see that the Nightwing is a good air-superiority fighter and the best way to deal with AV14 we can get. We also see that Bright Lances in all other cases cost your shirt AND your spleen.

Can you have normal Craftworld Eldar in the same army as Corsair Eldar, like pick and choose units? Or would you have to pick them as allies? I don't know forgeworld too well, so you'll have to forgive me.

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
Can you have normal Craftworld Eldar in the same army as Corsair Eldar, like pick and choose units? Or would you have to pick them as allies? I don't know forgeworld too well, so you'll have to forgive me.

Yes and no.

Most of the Corsair units are approved for Craftworlders.
HQ: None. There is a new HQ that Corsair can't have.
Elite: None.
Troop: None.
Fast attack: Nightwing, Hornet, Wasp (with changes)
Heavy Support: Warp Hunter, Phoenix Bomber. There is a new HS unit that Corsair can't have.

They ally as Battle Brothers. If you want one of the Corsair HQ or Troop (including the better Wasp) then you need to ally.

But in my local area, without the stamp actually being on the page the unit is listed on then you cannot take them. So Corsairs are out as an army choice in my area.

Roadkill Zombie wrote:
But in my local area, without the stamp actually being on the page the unit is listed on then you cannot take them. So Corsairs are out as an army choice in my area.

Doesn't this technically dq all the complete forgeworld army lists? I don't think Amy of the lists have a 40k approved stamp on every single entry in the list.

I have to agree with what many others have said. If you play Eldar you pretty much need the mymeara book.

I don't know, The Doom of Mymeara is the only book I own from Forge World so I'm not sure about any other army lists.

 Mahtamori wrote:
The Corsair army really suffers from bad HQ and bad Elites, though. While their Troops are actually decent (and what makes them decent is NOT Lasblasters, by the way)

Matter of opinion

I like 24" range for a T3 5+ unit with jsj. I hate t3 5+ units with 12" range. Beacuse that says "I can shoot - I'm also in charge range of the enemy"

The corsair prince being able to inflict night fighting on the opposition makes him far more useful than the autarch. If you get first turn, you can guarantee night fighting for the opponants shooting phase.
I like having a 3+ cover save on all my grav tanks for the first turn, which is when the eldar normally get out ranged by lascannons and missile launchers.
If you go second, you just go for 2nd turn night fighting - so all the enemy reserves turn up in the dark - which means any fliers that come on might not manage the normal arriving attack run.
If you don't want the night fighting rules, then instead you can have a str 9, lance, orbital bombardment. The corsair prince can also have a 2++. So take as a battle brother for craftworld eldar and you can stick him at the front of a fortuned squad and you get a very good character to tank damage with.
Meanwhile, the autarch can add +1 to a reserve roll. With 6th changing reserves from 4+ to 3+ on turn two...woo.

However @ Roadkill Zombie - I prefer to run pure craftworld. For my games, from IA11,I take the wraithseer and a phoenix bomber - they are very much 40k approved. If you run wraithwall, the wraithseer makes it shine. The phoenix is also good fun to use (Pulse laser, 6 str 5 ap3 missiles, 2 shuriken cannons)

PredaKhaine wrote:
The phoenix is also good fun to use (Pulse laser, 6 str 5 ap3 missiles, 2 shuriken cannons)

Just remember the limit on firing four weapons at full BS, if you fire all of the guns on a Phoenix at least one of them will be at BS 1. Between that and the higher point cost of the Phoenix the Nightwing is a better choice.

 Peregrine wrote:

PredaKhaine wrote:
The phoenix is also good fun to use (Pulse laser, 6 str 5 ap3 missiles, 2 shuriken cannons)

Just remember the limit on firing four weapons at full BS, if you fire all of the guns on a Phoenix at least one of them will be at BS 1. Between that and the higher point cost of the Phoenix the Nightwing is a better choice.

lol - I just listed the guns and said it's fun but yes, you can't fire all the guns at once.


Edit:almost forgot (one of the most important parts for me) the phoenix looks better than the nightwing. Although, the nightwing does win on rules...

Isn't it a limit on 4 weapons max period? Not that the rest may fire snapshots?

Think so - unless you have a marine flier with potms. I've edited my post above for clarity.

 Mahtamori wrote:

Fuegan: No, they still haven't FAQed that. He can't join OTHER aspects, but he can join his own or non-aspect squads.
Warp Spiders: Hit & Run requires the Exarch to be alive, keeping him alive is hard due to challenges. They are one of my favourites, though, but they're not really 22ppm calibre.
Dark Reapers: I've never had a list or battle where I'd think "wish I'd spent 120 points on three models with two-shot S5 guns". Yes, they get the job done, but they are far from worth their points and are so stationary that it's silly. If I faced them with my PA-army I'd stick two drop pods of Tacticals behind near turn 1 or 2 for greater and cheaper effect.

Ah yes, forgot that Phoenix Lords could join non-aspect squads.

Its not that hard to keep the Exarch alive. They strike first, multiple attacks, MEQ squad sgts often won't survive if you give them power blades. Against ICs, its a different story, but then, you should probably avoid assault when they are involved. Or, you know, you could just decline the challenge. Since there generally won't be many survivors after the initial barrage, it really shouldn't be that big a deal.

My buddy who plays eldar always takes 5 Dark Reapers and a farseer, and typically sets them up in ruins. They do pretty damn good against my marines on a regular basis. Not sure I agree that a 10-man tac squad in a drop pod is really cheaper (or more effective), but to each their own. That being said, DR are completely useless against most non-MEQ armies, so it is a big points cost for an All-Comers list, but since 80% of armies are MEQ, its not that big a risk.

What are you looking for with the Eldar? If for local play, you'd likely be just fine with them. If you were looking for large 64+ player events, the army becomes very challenging as you are more likely to face more efficient armies at higher tables. I ran the following at a 20 person RTT recently and went 2-1. The loss came down to the last roll of a dice in the game and my opponent just barely got Linebreaker with a single model for the win.

Eldrad
Fuegan
19 Guardians, Scatterlaser, Warlock, Conceal
9 Jetbikes, 3 Cannons, Warlock, Embolden, Spear
9 DA, 1 Exarch, dual Catapults, Bladestorm
-Wave Serpent, t/l Cannon
7 Harlies with Kisses, 1 Shadowseer with Kiss
3 Dark Reapers, 1 Exarch, Tempest Launcher, Crack Shot
3 War Walkers, 6 Scatterlasers
Bastion, Quad Gun

The two games I won, I went second. The game I barely lost I went first.

Will I do well in larger events with this? Not really as the codex is quite dated and there are a lot more efficient and competitive builds out there.

Some tactics that I've had to develope that have proven useful.

Fuegan will start on the battlement with the Quad Gun. He has a couple of roles up here. The obvious is anti flier. The less obvious is first blood. What I'm seeing locally are Marine players always taking a Drop Pod (at least one). The quad gun isn't going to kill the typical Sternguard or Long Fangs/Logan combo. But, what Fuegan can do is destroy the drop pod (Crack Shot and Tank Hunter on the quad gun). That is first blood which, IIRC, is in every mission. If need be, I will utilize the rules for Fuegan to leap off the battlement and go assault. Leaping off the building is NOT disembarking, so he can assault, however, he is likely to suffer a wound (if you roll a 3 or less, he takes a wound, but you do get FnP).

I'm close to switching out the bastion for a ADL and tweak the list a bit more. I've seen numerous tourneys where folks ran War Walkers behind an ADL and received their cover saves with no complaints from their opponent (the issue I found was how to determine if 25% of the War Walker is obscured to get the 4+ cover save.

Guardians are simply meant to die. But, using your TAC template you can ensure 2" coherency and push drop pod threats away from the Bastion so you at least don't lose the bastion turn 1.

If you are facing an IG gunline, this really becomes mission dependent. If you have to go after IG blobs, Fuegan and Eldrad will join the Harlies and with Fortune and proper model positiong will reach assault. Once I reach that IG blob, things like Precision strike helps get rid of the lowly Space Marine model that is trying to utilized ATSKNF on the blog. Generally, I'm running 3 characters in my Harlie unit (Shadowseer, Eldrad, Fuegan). I don't generally issue challenges but wait to see if my opponent does. If so, I determine the best model to accept the challenge (as they are all engaged in most cases). I have no issues losing the Shadowseer if I'm in my opponent's deployment zone, so if that model has to take the challenge, then so be it. I've literally played 10 or so games against blob IG and have made it to assault every game. I've run the gambit from using Fuegan, Maugan Ra or Vect in this unit for Fearless and extra hitting power. Eldrad has been a mixed blessing as he is not fleet and has gimped me a few times. I'm very tempted to run a Farseer on a bike just to overcome the mobility issue. But, even when gimped, they still make it to assault.

The jetbike unit is quite resilient. Again, proper 2" coherency and measuring out all your distances to ensure you don't get assaulted is key. This unit has gotten earned me things like 'The Relic', 'Linebreaker', 4 point 'Scouring' objectives and so forth. I'm yet to lose this unit in a game. They always start the game in reserve giving me a lot of options for this unit. If I really need to bolster a spot quick, they put out a significant amount of anti infantry fire.

Out of the list, the DA/WS were the weakest link. They really do not put out the shooting firepower that I would anticipate. Their intent was to be kept in reserve with the Jetbikes and be a reinforcing unit for the jetbikes. However, it's not quite worked out that way and I think the points are better spend by taking another large jetbike unit (6 with 2 Cannons and Warlock, spear, embolden).

Dark Reapers are hit or miss. I've played a couple of games where there was a lot of 2+ armor saves and they sat inside the bunker and prayed nobody brought the bunker down (IG with Manticores is a very scary concept here). Against Necrons and MEQ, I've found this unit to be quite deadly. They are fearless inside the bastion and each firepoint allows two models to fire, so the 4 man squad I mentioned can fire for full effect.

Now, will this list stand up to a triple Helldrake Chaos bomb? I haven't played against it yet, but to be honest, I don't like my chances. A lot comes down to my opponent and if he can play a better game than me. If I make a mistake with my army, it becomes a very significant uphill battle as I really can't afford a single mistake as the Eldar codex was built for 4th edition and the points values very much reflect it.

If you want to run a very shooty list with some durability, here is the core of what I've been contemplating:

Eldrad
Farseer, Fortune, Guide, Spirit Stones
9 War Walkers with scatterlasers
large Harlie squad (counter assault element)
Skyshield landing pad.

The Skyshield gives you a 4+ invulnerable save, which helps with the War Walkers. You can cast 5 psychic powers a turn (Guide/Fortune) mainly to support your War Walkers. It's a lot of shooting with added durability. Plus, it also provides defense from what will likely become the emerging triple Helldrake list. Harlies are there to go after anything they tries to get too close.

Again, I won't claim Eldar are the uber top tier tourney army....they aren't. However, they can still be played to give you fun games in which you can still win games with. Locally, I do well with the army. In tourneys, it's not been overly successful, but there were some issues with my speed of play and this army needing time to get the ball rolling (IE: I need turns 5 and possibly 6 to win a game). To be fair and to ensure I'm not claiming Eldar are awesome at tourneys, I'm pretty much dropping them from larger tourney play for a more efficient army (Chaos/IG).

Hope this helps.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Erik_Morkai wrote:


10 Warp Spiders is great but it's the deep strike footprint that is bothering me. 10 models take up alot of space. 6-7 is still manageable in small spots.

Considering the new "range-to-wound" rules, Warp Spiders have become garbage like the rest of the codex.

No one should be playing Eldar now.

Yeah, I second this. I've played Eldar in the former edition, but shelved it now waiting for the new codex.

PredaKhaine wrote:

 Mahtamori wrote:
The Corsair army really suffers from bad HQ and bad Elites, though. While their Troops are actually decent (and what makes them decent is NOT Lasblasters, by the way)

Matter of opinion

I like 24" range for a T3 5+ unit with jsj. I hate t3 5+ units with 12" range. Beacuse that says "I can shoot - I'm also in charge range of the enemy"

The corsair prince being able to inflict night fighting on the opposition makes him far more useful than the autarch. If you get first turn, you can guarantee night fighting for the opponants shooting phase.
I like having a 3+ cover save on all my grav tanks for the first turn, which is when the eldar normally get out ranged by lascannons and missile launchers.
If you go second, you just go for 2nd turn night fighting - so all the enemy reserves turn up in the dark - which means any fliers that come on might not manage the normal arriving attack run.
If you don't want the night fighting rules, then instead you can have a str 9, lance, orbital bombardment. The corsair prince can also have a 2++. So take as a battle brother for craftworld eldar and you can stick him at the front of a fortuned squad and you get a very good character to tank damage with.
Meanwhile, the autarch can add +1 to a reserve roll. With 6th changing reserves from 4+ to 3+ on turn two...woo.

However @ Roadkill Zombie - I prefer to run pure craftworld. For my games, from IA11,I take the wraithseer and a phoenix bomber - they are very much 40k approved. If you run wraithwall, the wraithseer makes it shine. The phoenix is also good fun to use (Pulse laser, 6 str 5 ap3 missiles, 2 shuriken cannons)

What makes Corsairs good, to me, is:
1. They can take two heavy weapons with a ten-man squad. Maybe not the weapon you would like to have had, but I love missile launchers.
2. The cost to give them jet packs is negligible if you go for full squads.
3. They can hit what they shoot.
4. Two special weapons (which translates to flamers)

To sum the Prince up: The Autarch has the same stats, but is cheaper, has better armour, comes with better wargear, has weapon options, can take specialised wargear and lends more naturally to the nature of his codex - in short he does everything better than the Prince for a better price. The Autarch still isn't good at all.