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With the ability to now give DW termies plasma cannons, are ACs even needed anymore? Everything they can do (anti-infantry, anti light vehicle) plasma cannons can do better, at further range, and for five points cheaper. The only thing AC can do that PC can't is for AA but even then its still bad due to being only strength 6. more so now that rending was FAQed so that a 6 doesn't count as AP2 anymore. So where does AC fit into DW termies now? Cyclone is still great for light to med. vehicle popping from far away, and heavy flamer is still perfect for hoards, what use does AC have now?

I have no real interest in the Plasma Cannons. I will still take the heavy flamer and cyclone missiles over assault cannons. However, in a real word answer, you can get assault cannons relatively easily. Plasma cannons are harder to get. Plus, assault cannons don't deviate or get hot.

I'm not a fan of scatter dice that the PC gives. Possibly making that shot worthless, or pathetic. Only gakky Orcs mob up that much to get better than average kills.
You are "pretty much" assured to get at least 2 hits and 2 wounds on most things you shoot with a AC, and the rending possibility to a great thrill to look for in your rolls.
Don't underestimate those free storm bolters though, those 30+ point something for one weapon is a bit much for the one or two shots you get in a basic game.

 womprat49 wrote:
I'm not a fan of scatter dice that the PC gives. Possibly making that shot worthless, or pathetic. Only gakky Orcs mob up that much to get better than average kills.
You are "pretty much" assured to get at least 2 hits and 2 wounds on most things you shoot with a AC, and the rending possibility to a great thrill to look for in your rolls.
Don't underestimate those free storm bolters though, those 30+ point something for one weapon is a bit much for the one or two shots you get in a basic game.

PC is only 15 pts. And yes scatter is hit or miss (often literally!) but its somewhat offset with the rule that makes DW weapons twin linked when they first arrive.

The sky is not falling. Assault cannons are still useful.

I like the CML the most because of it's versatility, you keep the storm bolter, and it's only 25 last I checked.

This is all Theory at the moment as I have not had a chance to get a game in with the new Codex, but here is I see it.

Assault Cannons: This is still the go to weapon; it has a good Rate of Fire and the ability to hurt eve thing. It also has the same range profile as a Storm Bolter.
Cyclone Missile Launcher: Great Range, and high strength and it will even let you keep your Storm Bolter or even take a Pair of Lighting Claws or a Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield combo. I don’t see a lot of downsides other than the price.
Heavy Flamer: This is probable the best choice if you planning assaulting. It can also be a good choice for a command Squad with a Standard of Retribution. Just think about the Heavy Flamer, a Interrogator Chapin with a Combi-Flamer, this will make a lot of people think twice before assaulting.
Plasma Cannon: Good Range, Great AP and a High Strength, but you have the “Gets Hot” Issue [not that I worry about it].

To me I think the Roll should determine what you are going to use. For Deep Striking I would go with Assault Cannon, Heavy Flamer and Cyclone, for “Tactical” Terminators you want the Cyclone or the Plasma Cannon.

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Everything they can do (anti-infantry, anti light vehicle) plasma cannons can do better, at further range, and for five points cheaper.

Except glance or penetrate an AV14 vehicle.

Or penetrate an AV13 vehicle.

Or put up to 4 Glances or Penetrating hits on a rhino/razorback. PCs can only put one at most...if it doesn't scatter off the target.

Or take out more than 2 dudes from a squad. Honestly, who bunches up their models in front of a plasma cannon?

Plasma cannons have their role and are very good for their points, but that role doesn't invalidate the assault cannon in the slightest. Also, I can call my Assault Cannons AssCans and everyone giggles. AssCans are very versatile weapons. However, my preferred AssCan delivery system is a Land Speeder with AssCan and Heavy Bolter. I like Cyclone Missile Launchers on my terminators.

But the pkint behind the deep striking plasma cannon is to hit the units that are still bunched up from deployment I had good fun with 1 assault and 1 plasma cannon in my last game, so will probably use it more often. The 2 weapons have similar roles but work slightly differently, so I think its a good combo.

I just think theres so many other places to take PCs that DW termies don't need to take them and can take CMLs instead.

I was wondering the same thing, I'm used to playing with the cml but with the advent of hull points I was curious as to how overkill it may be vs the assault cannon.

In a deathwing/ravenwing combo army there are remarkably few places to take plasma cannon. Dreadnoughts maybe but the 2+ save is definately the best defence against gets hot.

 kronk wrote:

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Everything they can do (anti-infantry, anti light vehicle) plasma cannons can do better, at further range, and for five points cheaper.

Except glance or penetrate an AV14 vehicle.

Or penetrate an AV13 vehicle.

Or put up to 4 Glances or Penetrating hits on a rhino/razorback. PCs can only put one at most...if it doesn't scatter off the target.

Or take out more than 2 dudes from a squad. Honestly, who bunches up their models in front of a plasma cannon?

Plasma cannons have their role and are very good for their points, but that role doesn't invalidate the assault cannon in the slightest. Also, I can call my Assault Cannons AssCans and everyone giggles. AssCans are very versatile weapons. However, my preferred AssCan delivery system is a Land Speeder with AssCan and Heavy Bolter. I like Cyclone Missile Launchers on my terminators.

*the odds of an AC penetrating AV14 is so astronomically high as to not even be worth considering, even with prescience. Trust me, I play GK, and even Psycannons with their S7 rending can't reliably do it.

*All vehicle that have AV 13 have weaker rear armor. Just deepstrike and/or maneuver there.

* Given, but at least PC have a better chance of blowing up the rhino and damaging whatever unit is inside

*Anything coming in via deepstrike like daemons and other termies. Or any units trying to stay in a small piece of terrain. Or units trying to hold an objective. Or hordes armies that have so many large units they can't space them all out on their boards. And even it it doesn only hit one or two, against TEQ two casualties is often enough to gimp the unit

* I'd always prefer cyclones on my termies as wells, but cost it a big issue. For the same price as a DW unit with a cyclone and 1 TH/SS, I can have a unit with a PC, 2 TH/SS, and a chainfist to deal with AV 13/14. My point isn't that PCs are now the best DW weapons, its that they are the best at what they do for their COST. If ACs cost the same as PCs or vice versa I'd be torn as to which to take.