Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

getting tired of being unable to kill space marines with your guardsman.

use storm troopers, they got bs 4 so hit often and their hot-shot lasguns have an ap 3 so they don't get their annoying 3+ saves.
in addition they have caparace armour so they do get the save from bolter fire .


they have the deep strike and special operations special rules as well which may be useful considering their range of 18''
they are however quite expensive for 165 points for ten models with no upgrades.

If your having problems with space marines, IG have lots of tools you can use.

PG vets in chimeras are great for clearing out MEQ.
LRBTs have a nice AP3 pie plate.

KOlBamekil wrote:
getting tired of being unable to kill space marines with your guardsman.

use storm troopers, they got bs 4 so hit often and their hot-shot lasguns have an ap 3 so they don't get their annoying 3+ saves.

they are however quite expensive for 165 points for ten models with no upgrades.

Thanks for that. It's almost like I've never read the codex to see how crap storm troopers are.

You know what's better than storm troopers? Pretty much everything else.

CCS with plasma
Plasma vets
melta vets
FRFSRF blobs
pretty much every artillery option
pretty much every LR option
Marbo

Oh hey look. It's practically my army list.

Storm troopers are terrible for hunting marines. They have some uses, but MEQ hunting is not one of them. There's a whole lot of plasma in the codex, or you can invoke the IG special tactic: so many armour saves that they will fail eventually. 50 lasguns doing FRFSRF at sub 12" should do the trick.

Also, ANYTHING in the heavy support section.

Pie plates. Lots of them.

I prefer just taking two squads of Conquerors with Plasma Sponsons: cheap, can fire all three blast weapons, can move 18" in a turn, can kill MEQ with ease.

 Lobukia wrote:
I prefer just taking two squads of Conquerors with Plasma Sponsons: cheap, can fire all three blast weapons, can move 18" in a turn, can kill MEQ with ease.

Conquerors dont have lumbering behemoth, and therefore are not heavy vehicles. They are -terrible-.

Griddlelol wrote:You know what's better than storm troopers? Pretty much everything else.

Well that's not true. 195 points gives you something that can show up anywhere on the board and kill 6 marines on the drop in a single volley, regardless of displacement. In return, they have carapace armor, so they don't care about the bolters that shoot back at them, and are infantry, so aren't going to care much about anti-tank weapons in the squad, and in close combat they get twice as many attacks (three times as many if they're doing the charging), and once again have carapace armor to help them out.

There's no way that marbo is doing that kind of damage against displacement (or any other large blast for that matter), and everything else is more likely to have to deal with cover saves. Or is just worse. I mean, really, melta vets? They're doing half as much damage as stormies, and that's even assuming no cover.

That said, there are other great options, and stormies aren't the only one.

KOlBamekil wrote:
getting tired of being unable to kill space marines with your guardsman.

use storm troopers, they got bs 4 so hit often and their hot-shot lasguns have an ap 3 so they don't get their annoying 3+ saves.
in addition they have caparace armour so they do get the save from bolter fire .

In a straight up open field 12" apart firefight against a basic tac squad, they're trading casualties evenly (AP3 is mitigated by being S3 and the ST's being T3 with a 4+sv against S4 guns). Aside from that, in any other situation, be it CC or shooting, especially if cover is involved, a basic tac squad is going to have the advantage, usually a big one.

they have the deep strike and special operations special rules as well which may be useful considering their range of 18''
they are however quite expensive for 165 points for ten models with no upgrades.

The problem is they pay out the nose for that AP3 because GW thinks AP3 is worth about thrice what it actually is, and they don't have the statline to backup the rest of their gear. The gun being RF 18" instead of Assault also really hurts, because then they'd have more firepower at max range and at close ranges at least be able to follow up their shots with a 3A each assault. But no...sadly they just can't operate particularly effectively.

< Taken by the void dragon. >

Conqueror's main gun also got nerfed again back to being a single shot small blast Autocannon, and if it's moving and trying to shoot, it can only shoot one blast weapon due to the snapfire rules and not having Heavy.

 McGibs wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:
I prefer just taking two squads of Conquerors with Plasma Sponsons: cheap, can fire all three blast weapons, can move 18" in a turn, can kill MEQ with ease.

Conquerors dont have lumbering behemoth, and therefore are not heavy vehicles. They are -terrible-.

That's kinda the point of their existence, and what makes every thing I just said true.

On a Conqueror: For 175-I85 points, you can have 2 Heavy Bolters or 2 Multi Melta, a Pintle stubber, a co-axial storm bolter, a LC, and the Main gun. You can move 6" and fire them all (snap fire everything but the Cannon).... just like a LR, but when you stop, you can fire it all at full BS, unlike the LR. If you put PC on the Conqueror, you can actually fire it and the Main Gun on the same turn, not possible with the LR.

Now an Executioner is a heavy and can put out a ton of PC shots (and it is excellent at MEQ killing)... but you pay 60pts more for it... sometimes and extra 3 HP is worth giving up 2 blasts. I'm not saying a Conqueror is always better than a LR MBT or an Executioner, but 60 points cheaper and can fire all weapons when stable can really help when dealing with MEQ, which is what the OP was discussing. The ability to not fire, pop smoke and go 18" in a turn can also be huge, something a Heavy Vehicle can only dream of.

 Lobukia wrote:
On a Conqueror: For 175-I85 points, you can have 2 Heavy Bolters or 2 Multi Melta, a Pintle stubber, a co-axial storm bolter, a LC, and the Main gun. You can move 6" and fire them all (snap fire everything but the Cannon).... just like a LR, but when you stop, you can fire it all at full BS, unlike the LR. If you put PC on the Conqueror, you can actually fire it and the Main Gun on the same turn, not possible with the LR.

Wait, let me get this straight:

A LR Conqueror snap fires the hull and sponson guns in exchange for a STR 7 AP 4 small blast.

A LR Annihilator costs 20 points less, fires the hull and sponson guns at full BS even when moving, and has a TL LC turret (better than the blast for killing marines).

And you seriously think the Conqueror is a better marine killer?

Take 3 Heavy Artillery, cast perfect timing, precience or use Fire on My Target. Then enjoy the carnage.

 Jackster wrote:
Take 3 Heavy Artillery, cast perfect timing, precience or use Fire on My Target. Then enjoy the carnage.

Can't issue orders to Vehicles.

 CaptainGrey wrote:

 Jackster wrote:
Take 3 Heavy Artillery, cast perfect timing, precience or use Fire on My Target. Then enjoy the carnage.

Can't issue orders to Vehicles.

Heavy artillery aren't vehicles.

 Peregrine wrote:

 CaptainGrey wrote:

 Jackster wrote:
Take 3 Heavy Artillery, cast perfect timing, precience or use Fire on My Target. Then enjoy the carnage.

Can't issue orders to Vehicles.

Heavy artillery aren't vehicles.

Strike what I said.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:
On a Conqueror: For 175-I85 points, you can have 2 Heavy Bolters or 2 Multi Melta, a Pintle stubber, a co-axial storm bolter, a LC, and the Main gun. You can move 6" and fire them all (snap fire everything but the Cannon).... just like a LR, but when you stop, you can fire it all at full BS, unlike the LR. If you put PC on the Conqueror, you can actually fire it and the Main Gun on the same turn, not possible with the LR.

Wait, let me get this straight:

A LR Conqueror snap fires the hull and sponson guns in exchange for a STR 7 AP 4 small blast.

A LR Annihilator costs 20 points less, fires the hull and sponson guns at full BS even when moving, and has a TL LC turret (better than the blast for killing marines).

And you seriously think the Conqueror is a better marine killer?

I must have lost track up updates somewhere (does the brand new IA IG 2e have a new stat line for the Conqueror?), because with the newest updates (I hope) I've got the Annihilator and the Conqueror at the some cost and the Conqueror at a 8/3 small blast. If its now 7/4, and the Annihilator is now cheaper, then yes, its better. My adoration is withdrawn (and I've got some turrets to swap out).

The Conqueror is dead, long live the Annihilator!

< Taken by the void dragon. >

 Lobukia wrote:
(does the brand new IA IG 2e have a new stat line for the Conqueror?)

Yes. The Conqueror was weak previously, and now it's useless garbage. I can't think of a single situation where you would ever willingly take one in a list.

They should have gave it the Heavy type when they updated IA stuff to 6th, too bad.
But hell, IG gets plenty of useful stuff from forge world, I ll forgive them for this one.

On the subject of the Leman Russ, what are your thoughts on Thunderers? You know, the little Demolisher Russ that could?

Corollax wrote:
On the subject of the Leman Russ, what are your thoughts on Thunderers? You know, the little Demolisher Russ that could?

IG vindicator (But better, like most IG SM vehicle comparissons) and should be use like one.

< Taken by the void dragon. >

Corollax wrote:
On the subject of the Leman Russ, what are your thoughts on Thunderers? You know, the little Demolisher Russ that could?

Given that Demolishers can only snap-fire their other weapons now, you're not losing anything by getting Thunderers. It's essentially a 25 point discount on Demolishers so frankly I'd have 6 in every list I made

 BryllCream wrote:
Given that Demolishers can only snap-fire their other weapons now, you're not losing anything by getting Thunderers.

You're losing the turret, which is not a trivial loss. Maybe not such a loss that it's worth the extra points to keep it, but it's not really a "free points" situation.

True I'd forgotten about that. I still wouldn't think twice about running Thunderers if I could.

< Taken by the void dragon. >

A 72" Demolisher cannon? Oh and it's 5 points cheaper too

I don't think it ever had a blast (I could be wrong) but its most current stats are S9 AP2 Twin Linked, Ordnance, no blast, 60".

Not great for 160pts, dropped a point of Strength and went from AP1 to AP2 and lost 12" of range to gain Twin Linked. Not awful, but it's less effective as a heavy tank hunter while being slightly better against AV12 and lower vehicles which it isn't needed for. FW nerfed most of their passable units with the latest IA book. The Rapier artillery piece is still very good though, T7 arty unit with the same gun (albeit only 36") and you can get three in an HS slot for 40pts cheaper than the tank destroyer :(

< Taken by the void dragon. >