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Experiment 626 wrote:
To add to the list of misery...

How about all those netlisters who troll along for power lists and then end up with TAC's lists looking like;
Coteaz
3x Henchmen groups of Acolytes/Banishers
3x 10 man Strikes
2x 10 man 'Ceptors
3x Pysfleman dreads
6x Psybacks

It's a TAC's list that no Daemon army has a hope in hell of ever beating unless you go first and can wipe-out pretty much anything that's not in a transport. (when it shoots back, it's not pretty just how fast those daemons die.)

You don't *need* to list taylor to screw over Daemon players. (although plenty of GK donkeycaves do list tailor when they see Daemons)
Just take 20+ Strikes with at least 10 'Ceptors and go first... Makes every Daemon player cry, and works wonders alongside a mainly Termie list since it brings numbers.

I've never played against a list like that, or even seen one played, but I do understand that metas can differ from area to area.

The local Battle Bunker in Seattle hosts a monthly 40k tournament, and I have seen a guy show up with a GK list that has a few squads of Strikes / Interceptors. He usually seems to finish in the middle to lower part of the spectrum. In a tournament environment I may run up against him and lose if I don't go first, but against most other MEQ armies (including GK) Daemons are usually the rock to their scissors.

Every army has their Achilles Heel. Ours happens to be a specific, not very popular list from one army. In a tournament you take what you get and make the best of it, but in friendly play (in my area at least) if your opponent is interested in actually playing a game with you instead of just dicing to see who goes first and stopping there, you shouldn't see that too much.

i know it's a specific example, but there's a douche daemons player at my local venue who has won the past 3 combat patrols running a 5-man troop choice and nothing but flamers for 500pts. i think he takes the cake for infinite cheese. of course, he finally gets nerfed after the new rules for it... I swear it pretty much only affects him.

Oh my days, just reading this thread has made me want a GK or a Daemon army! So much banter to be had!


Oh, some cheese, me and an old friend used to play 40K, I'd go Tau and he'd go 'Nids... I swear that he would just make rules up, in all fairness neither of us fully knew the rules since we were pretty young at the time but wow, it screamed fishy, one of the rules I remember being fishy about was when he said something like "oh, my nids insta kill on a 6 in melee". Not saying he was lying or anything, just saying that it was a bit fishy since my rule book went missing in his house prior and I had no way of checking. Thinking back to it, wouldn't I still get an armour save? I mean, if he hits me surely I get to see if it's a critical hit or a graze?

Then again, I'm pretty sure he was using the wrong stats too... my Tau should have been blasting them. Kinda annoying looking back at it... :T

Now, I'm not going to talk down about one of my childhood friends but it's really put me off battling. in this kinda hobby, I mean the next chance I have of a battle (realistically) is when I go down my mates house he had that box set with the Space Marines and the Tyranids.

Bad memories with the 'Nids love them but I have bad memories with them.

If he had Rending Claws then if he rolls a 6 to wound you don't get an armor save so its possible thats what he meant.

rigeld2 wrote:
If he had Rending Claws then if he rolls a 6 to wound you don't get an armor save so its possible thats what he meant.

He's talking about Implant Attack, page 84 in the Tyranid codex. If you roll a 6 to wound it inflicts instant death, regardless of toughness.

 undertow wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
If he had Rending Claws then if he rolls a 6 to wound you don't get an armor save so its possible thats what he meant.

He's talking about Implant Attack, page 84 in the Tyranid codex. If you roll a 6 to wound it inflicts instant death, regardless of toughness.

Depends how long ago it was. Until the current codex Implant Attack was two wounds, not Instant Death. If their game pre-dates that, then the only thing he can be talking about is Rending Claws.

 Ravenous D wrote:
Drop pods are on my list right now.

If any of you remember 4th you'll remember pod armies were difficult for a lot of people to deal with, there were a few other builds that could weather them (nidzilla, Immortal falcon eldar, fish of fury tau) but they are all dead now. In 5th you could deal with them and put your entire army in reserve and negate aspects of it, but now in 6th you are forced to put 50% of your forces down unless you're marines in drop pods or daemons. add in the fact that reserves is now 3+ on turn 2 and you've got yourself a problem.

It was after I saw two players in an elimination tournament pretty much rocking the same drop pod army, the old woes have come back, and this time around there isnt much that can deal with them.

In case you guys didnt know about drop pod tactics here's a quick run through:
-You always want to go second, it eliminates a turn of offense of your opponent while you still get a full game turn of offense.

- Cherry picking, essentially you choose where the battle takes place.

-Vulkan, makes your meltas and flamers twin linked, even with snap shots you have a higher chance to kill stuff, even fliers!

You forgot Ashmantle in a Lucious drop pod. If Forge World rules are allowed, and they commonly are nowdays.

An AV13 Dreadnought that ignores melta, lance, rending; any extra dice effect on the vehicle damage chart, and assaults the turn he comes out.....

Most armies simply don't have an answer.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyone that thinks the GK player auto wins because he goes first against daemons, doesn't understand the matchup.

It greatly evens the odds, but is far from a sure thing.

Reference: I own Apocalypse sized Grey Knight & Daemon Armies, and have played in many tournaments & apoc games with
both. I know the matchup all too well. And BTW, anyone that says daemons used to suck in 5th never played me. I routinely tabled
Purifier Spam, Draigo Wing, and Coteaz lists with my Daemons in 5th.

You forgot Ashmantle in a Lucious drop pod. If Forge World rules are allowed, and they commonly are nowdays.

An AV13 Dreadnought that ignores melta, lance, rending; any extra dice effect on the vehicle damage chart, and assaults the turn he comes out.....

Most armies simply don't have an answer.

So a dreadnought actually worth its points to go into melee, with a fast attack slot tax at 55 points.

I routinely tabled
Purifier Spam, Draigo Wing, and Coteaz lists with my Daemons in 5th.

Probably because you played newer players, generally daemons got beaten hard in most cases, unless you tailored against them.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

You forgot Ashmantle in a Lucious drop pod. If Forge World rules are allowed, and they commonly are nowdays.

An AV13 Dreadnought that ignores melta, lance, rending; any extra dice effect on the vehicle damage chart, and assaults the turn he comes out.....

Most armies simply don't have an answer.

So a dreadnought actually worth its points to go into melee, with a fast attack slot tax at 55 points.

I routinely tabled
Purifier Spam, Draigo Wing, and Coteaz lists with my Daemons in 5th.

Probably because you played newer players, generally daemons got beaten hard in most cases, unless you tailored against them.

No. Ashmantle is far more than a "dreadnought". You don't understand his rules or haven't seen him in action. Part of the problem is what are you going to
do to stop him? Melta guns; fail, Rending; nope, Power Fists\Power Claws; good luck. Rail Guns\Lascannons; maybe - but oh wait, he already got into assault before you even get
a chance to shoot at him or react. He has melta weaponry to pop transports, a flame attack that hits everything he is in base to base contact with, and he has 4 Hullpoints.
He is a broken unit when combined with the Lucious drop pod.

Daemons got beaten hard when they were played by inexperienced players that didn't understand there was a super power build with them in 5th. I have never
lost to Grey Knights with my Daemons. Normally by turn 3, the Grey Knight player is wondering what the hell happened.

No. Ashmantle is far more than a "dreadnought". You don't understand his rules or haven't seen him in action. Part of the problem is what are you going to
do to stop him? Melta guns; fail, Rending; nope, Power Fists\Power Claws; good luck. Rail Guns\Lascannons; maybe - but oh wait, he already got into assault before you even get
a chance to shoot at him or react. He has melta weaponry to pop transports, a flame attack that hits everything he is in base to base contact with, and he has 4 Hullpoints.
He is a broken unit when combined with the Lucious drop pod.

He's also 265 points that you neglected to mention, with a 55 point tax due to the lucius pod, and has a 1/6 chance of being immobilized on rushing out.

He's hardly broken at all, rushing him up the field would make him useless, he's built for melee and he has standard 4I like marines, most MC's will crush him in standard combat, sure is he powerful against the right armies? Yes, but to say he's broken is quite laughable. For 300+ I certainly hope he better do some damage in combat! His flame attack is only S5/AP4 that hits even friendly models.

Daemons got beaten hard when they were played by inexperienced players that didn't understand there was a super power build with them in 5th. I have never
lost to Grey Knights with my Daemons. Normally by turn 3, the Grey Knight player is wondering what the hell happened.

Super power build huh? How about showing it? I'd love to see.

Indeed, please share - after all, its 6th now....

AS for Ashmantle being broken? You bubble wrapped, andhe was usually effective enough that you broke on his turn, meaning you were free to shoot him in his AV-not-13 rear all you liked. Definitely not broken, especially for the points cost.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Indeed, please share - after all, its 6th now....

AS for Ashmantle being broken? You bubble wrapped, andhe was usually effective enough that you broke on his turn, meaning you were free to shoot him in his AV-not-13 rear all you liked. Definitely not broken, especially for the points cost.

Bubble wrapping is a nice thought, but doesn't work well with Ashmantle. The reason is he is usually run in Vulkan drop pod lists, and anything that is bubble wrapping is typically vaporized so that he can pick whatever target he wants.

So Turn 1 - Pods come down, 2-3 units of Sternguard + Ashmantle get out of their pods. Sternguard melta and flame 2-3 units, likely utterly annihilating them. Ashmantle than assaults annihilating
a 3rd\4th unit. All of this BEFORE the opponent can react in almost every case. The following turn, chances are Ashmantle will still be around, and he will destroy a 5th\6th unit.

It is very broken and unfair. Especially if the above list is run by an experienced player.

3 Sternguard Squads (assuming 5-man squads with combi-weapons), Vulkan, Bray'arth and Drop Pods for them (including a Lucius for Bray'arth comes out at 1065 points. That doesn't include the two Troops you have to take or the four extra Drop Pods you need to be allowed to drop all that turn 1. Those four Pods alone bring the total up to 1205 points. You're not going to have much outside the alpha strike units, who will get to kill a bit of the enemy army before promptly ceasing to exist. Melee Dreadnoughts are almost completely invalidated by 6th edition, it's either charging them out of a Stormraven or a Lucius Pod that lets them even touch the enemy lines.

As above. ONly inexperienced players wouldnt see that coming - defence in depth and castling means bubble wrapping DOES work. They cant land inside your outer ring, which is a drop pods width apart, so are forced to land the other side. Those units die (well, sometimes - spread out flamers do not a lot to them, even with a 6" disembark) and your 3 units of 5 man stern guard are now out int he open, and Ashmantle is stuck either assaulting a remnant squad, which he will destroy on his turn, or doesnt assault and is shot down anyway

You dont "react" to a drop pod list; you never have done. You beat it in deployment.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
As above. ONly inexperienced players wouldnt see that coming - defence in depth and castling means bubble wrapping DOES work. They cant land inside your outer ring, which is a drop pods width apart, so are forced to land the other side. Those units die (well, sometimes - spread out flamers do not a lot to them, even with a 6" disembark) and your 3 units of 5 man stern guard are now out int he open, and Ashmantle is stuck either assaulting a remnant squad, which he will destroy on his turn, or doesnt assault and is shot down anyway

You dont "react" to a drop pod list; you never have done. You beat it in deployment.

I take it you haven't played the army or seen it in action? I can tell you right now, that build is top tier. It is downright nasty in the hands of a good player.
I have personally watched it sweep 2 tournaments. I beat it, but only because I was running a nasty Tzeentch daemon build.

Firstborn wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
As above. ONly inexperienced players wouldnt see that coming - defence in depth and castling means bubble wrapping DOES work. They cant land inside your outer ring, which is a drop pods width apart, so are forced to land the other side. Those units die (well, sometimes - spread out flamers do not a lot to them, even with a 6" disembark) and your 3 units of 5 man stern guard are now out int he open, and Ashmantle is stuck either assaulting a remnant squad, which he will destroy on his turn, or doesnt assault and is shot down anyway

You dont "react" to a drop pod list; you never have done. You beat it in deployment.

I take it you haven't played the army or seen it in action? I can tell you right now, that build is top tier. It is downright nasty in the hands of a good player.
I have personally watched it sweep 2 tournaments. I beat it, but only because I was running a nasty Tzeentch daemon build.

So, show us the online tournament results, and the list you're speaking of. I'm very curious of this list that has just "Swept" two tournaments.

In addition, we still haven't seen your Daemon build that was so amazing in 5th.

The banner of devastation is broken. Its for 4 shots per model for a relentless or non-moving unit wielding bolters. In concert with several squads it can do serious damage. Watch an enemy unit charging such a squad.

Podding Sallies are always so considerate in that they spare my Berzerkers that boring ride across the battlefield to beat in their faces.

Firstborn wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
As above. ONly inexperienced players wouldnt see that coming - defence in depth and castling means bubble wrapping DOES work. They cant land inside your outer ring, which is a drop pods width apart, so are forced to land the other side. Those units die (well, sometimes - spread out flamers do not a lot to them, even with a 6" disembark) and your 3 units of 5 man stern guard are now out int he open, and Ashmantle is stuck either assaulting a remnant squad, which he will destroy on his turn, or doesnt assault and is shot down anyway

You dont "react" to a drop pod list; you never have done. You beat it in deployment.

I take it you haven't played the army or seen it in action? I can tell you right now, that build is top tier. It is downright nasty in the hands of a good player.
I have personally watched it sweep 2 tournaments. I beat it, but only because I was running a nasty Tzeentch daemon build.

INcorrect on both counts.

Still waiting on your army list that beat face in 5th, and woul love to see this list. Which 2 tournaments? A local store hardly counts.

Chrysis wrote:

 undertow wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
If he had Rending Claws then if he rolls a 6 to wound you don't get an armor save so its possible thats what he meant.

He's talking about Implant Attack, page 84 in the Tyranid codex. If you roll a 6 to wound it inflicts instant death, regardless of toughness.

Depends how long ago it was. Until the current codex Implant Attack was two wounds, not Instant Death. If their game pre-dates that, then the only thing he can be talking about is Rending Claws.

Chrysis wrote:

 undertow wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
If he had Rending Claws then if he rolls a 6 to wound you don't get an armor save so its possible thats what he meant.

He's talking about Implant Attack, page 84 in the Tyranid codex. If you roll a 6 to wound it inflicts instant death, regardless of toughness.

Depends how long ago it was. Until the current codex Implant Attack was two wounds, not Instant Death. If their game pre-dates that, then the only thing he can be talking about is Rending Claws.

Dang, sorry for the savage multi qoute but that would make sense I suppose, it's just the fact that he didn't tell me This was about the time when that Battle for MacRidge set was out so I'm not sure what codex that would have been :T

Thanks for clearing it up though.

So, what I hoped would be a funny thread full of stories of TFG type players trying to pull the wool over other player's eyes... has instead been 4 pages of daemon and GK players bitching at each other.

 wuestenfux wrote:
The banner of devastation is broken. Its for 4 shots per model for a relentless or non-moving unit wielding bolters. In concert with several squads it can do serious damage. Watch an enemy unit charging such a squad.

Especially when combined with hurricane bolters, it'll get FAQ'd into the ground eventually but in the meanwhile its awesome wrecking people with 72 twin linked bolters, more so if you hit them with a rad grenade before hand.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Firstborn wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
As above. ONly inexperienced players wouldnt see that coming - defence in depth and castling means bubble wrapping DOES work. They cant land inside your outer ring, which is a drop pods width apart, so are forced to land the other side. Those units die (well, sometimes - spread out flamers do not a lot to them, even with a 6" disembark) and your 3 units of 5 man stern guard are now out int he open, and Ashmantle is stuck either assaulting a remnant squad, which he will destroy on his turn, or doesnt assault and is shot down anyway

You dont "react" to a drop pod list; you never have done. You beat it in deployment.

I take it you haven't played the army or seen it in action? I can tell you right now, that build is top tier. It is downright nasty in the hands of a good player.
I have personally watched it sweep 2 tournaments. I beat it, but only because I was running a nasty Tzeentch daemon build.

INcorrect on both counts.

Still waiting on your army list that beat face in 5th, and woul love to see this list. Which 2 tournaments? A local store hardly counts.

Local tournaments don't count? Why is that? Our top local guy went to Feast of Blades in Chicago and beat the guy that took first. Care to play? I am Firstborn on Vassal.

You played a lot of 5th, but you don't even know about Fatecrusher? I used to destroy Draigo Wing builds with it. Just flat out annihilate them in assault.

My God, Dakka is filled with rat faced, internet 40K know it all’s, who really and truly don't know what they are talking about. They sure think they do though.

edited by Manchu

Firstborn wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Firstborn wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
As above. ONly inexperienced players wouldnt see that coming - defence in depth and castling means bubble wrapping DOES work. They cant land inside your outer ring, which is a drop pods width apart, so are forced to land the other side. Those units die (well, sometimes - spread out flamers do not a lot to them, even with a 6" disembark) and your 3 units of 5 man stern guard are now out int he open, and Ashmantle is stuck either assaulting a remnant squad, which he will destroy on his turn, or doesnt assault and is shot down anyway

You dont "react" to a drop pod list; you never have done. You beat it in deployment.

I take it you haven't played the army or seen it in action? I can tell you right now, that build is top tier. It is downright nasty in the hands of a good player.
I have personally watched it sweep 2 tournaments. I beat it, but only because I was running a nasty Tzeentch daemon build.

INcorrect on both counts.

Still waiting on your army list that beat face in 5th, and woul love to see this list. Which 2 tournaments? A local store hardly counts.

Local tournaments don't count? Why is that? Our top local guy went to Feast of Blades in Chicago and beat the guy that took first. He or I would bend
you over on the table. Care to play? I am Firstborn on Vassal.

You played a lot of 5th, but you don't even know about Fatecrusher? I used to destroy Draigo Wing builds with it. Just flat out annihilate them in assault.

My God, Dakka is filled with rat faced, internet 40K know it all’s, who really and truly don't know what they are talking about. They sure think they do though.

It is such of a waste of time to have a discussion with people like Nosferatu1001 around. They just continuously talk out of your a$$, won't admit when they are incorrect,
and I speculate would get tabled very quickly against a real veteran player.

If you are as good as you say post the list dude. YOU look like you have nothing to back your statement up.

Local tournaments don't count? Why is that? Our top local guy went to Feast of Blades in Chicago and beat the guy that took first.

Let's start here.

So, you're saying that your top local guy, went o feast of Blades, but didn't win it, correct? Beating one person in a match doesn't prove anything, that can come down to a multitude of variables. Also, would you mind pulling up what year this was, the lists, and the place that your top local friend made in the Tournement?

He or I would bend
you over on the table.

Are you attending Adepticon?How about your Friend. I ask, because it seems if he made the trip to Feast of Blades, then he would likely for Adepticon as well. If so, you and your friend will both have plenty of matches to prove yourself.
These kind of comments arn't going to win you any arguments though, and just purvey a childish mentality.

Care to play? I am Firstborn on Vassal.

Same kind of Chest-Thumping as earlier. As before, this adds nothing to a discussion.

You played a lot of 5th, but you don't even know about Fatecrusher?

Fatecrusher was pretty much the only viable build in 5th, but it never dominated any tournaments. Bill Kim is probably one of the top ranked players in the US with Daemons, and He came in 8th, I believe in the 2011 Adepticon tourney.

I used to destroy Draigo Wing builds with it. Just flat out annihilate them in assault.

anecdotal evidence like this, without a proven track record of major GT wins, really doesn't add anything to the discussion.

My God, Dakka is filled with rat faced, internet 40K know it all’s, who really and truly don't know what they are talking about. They sure think they do though.

Personal Attacks are against rule number 1.

It is such of a waste of time to have a discussion with people like Nosferatu1001 around. They just continuously talk out of your a$$, won't admit when they are incorrect,
and I speculate would get tabled very quickly against a real veteran player.

I feel like I'm a broken record here.


Fact of the matter is, you still have not provided those lists, and any major tournament results. Since your friend did attend Feast of Blades though, it would be nice if you would provide the requested information I asked for earlier in my post.

Firstborn wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Firstborn wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
As above. ONly inexperienced players wouldnt see that coming - defence in depth and castling means bubble wrapping DOES work. They cant land inside your outer ring, which is a drop pods width apart, so are forced to land the other side. Those units die (well, sometimes - spread out flamers do not a lot to them, even with a 6" disembark) and your 3 units of 5 man stern guard are now out int he open, and Ashmantle is stuck either assaulting a remnant squad, which he will destroy on his turn, or doesnt assault and is shot down anyway

You dont "react" to a drop pod list; you never have done. You beat it in deployment.

I take it you haven't played the army or seen it in action? I can tell you right now, that build is top tier. It is downright nasty in the hands of a good player.
I have personally watched it sweep 2 tournaments. I beat it, but only because I was running a nasty Tzeentch daemon build.

INcorrect on both counts.

Still waiting on your army list that beat face in 5th, and woul love to see this list. Which 2 tournaments? A local store hardly counts.

Local tournaments don't count? Why is that? Our top local guy went to Feast of Blades in Chicago and beat the guy that took first. He or I would bend
you over on the table. Care to play? I am Firstborn on Vassal.

You played a lot of 5th, but you don't even know about Fatecrusher? I used to destroy Draigo Wing builds with it. Just flat out annihilate them in assault.

My God, Dakka is filled with rat faced, internet 40K know it all’s, who really and truly don't know what they are talking about. They sure think they do though.

It is such of a waste of time to have a discussion with people like Nosferatu1001 around. They just continuously talk out of your a$$, won't admit when they are incorrect,
and I speculate would get tabled very quickly against a real veteran player.

Sorry, but that pretty much applies to your entire post.

You're not willing to even post this list that is supposedly the most awesome fatecrusher list that could beat all GK lists, that pinned down draigowing, that beat all tournaments. Seeing as your insulting people now without providing anything at this point, you've proven nothing except that your all talk.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Firstborn wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Firstborn wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
As above. ONly inexperienced players wouldnt see that coming - defence in depth and castling means bubble wrapping DOES work. They cant land inside your outer ring, which is a drop pods width apart, so are forced to land the other side. Those units die (well, sometimes - spread out flamers do not a lot to them, even with a 6" disembark) and your 3 units of 5 man stern guard are now out int he open, and Ashmantle is stuck either assaulting a remnant squad, which he will destroy on his turn, or doesnt assault and is shot down anyway

You dont "react" to a drop pod list; you never have done. You beat it in deployment.

I take it you haven't played the army or seen it in action? I can tell you right now, that build is top tier. It is downright nasty in the hands of a good player.
I have personally watched it sweep 2 tournaments. I beat it, but only because I was running a nasty Tzeentch daemon build.

INcorrect on both counts.

Still waiting on your army list that beat face in 5th, and woul love to see this list. Which 2 tournaments? A local store hardly counts.

Local tournaments don't count? Why is that? Our top local guy went to Feast of Blades in Chicago and beat the guy that took first. He or I would bend
you over on the table. Care to play? I am Firstborn on Vassal.

You played a lot of 5th, but you don't even know about Fatecrusher? I used to destroy Draigo Wing builds with it. Just flat out annihilate them in assault.

My God, Dakka is filled with rat faced, internet 40K know it all’s, who really and truly don't know what they are talking about. They sure think they do though.

It is such of a waste of time to have a discussion with people like Nosferatu1001 around. They just continuously talk out of your a$$, won't admit when they are incorrect,
and I speculate would get tabled very quickly against a real veteran player.

Sorry, but that pretty much applies to your entire post.

You're not willing to even post this list that is supposedly the most awesome fatecrusher list that could beat all GK lists, that pinned down draigowing, that beat all tournaments. Seeing as your insulting people now without providing anything at this point, you've proven nothing except that your all talk.

So now we have moved away from discussing Ashmantal\Lucious Vulkan lists, and have gotten into 5th edition daemons.....
You can search dakka for Fatecrusher yourself. I have nothing left to prove with my 5th edition daemons, other than a pile of tabled armies it left in it's wake.

Dakka is a really $hitty place to have a rational discussion. There are always armchair generals out there with big finecast penis's that like to talk tough.

I do my talking on the table. As I said, I am on Vassal a few times a week. Look me up if you want to play a game of 5th edition against my Daemons.
I will prove it to you where it counts; in game.

Firstborn wrote:

There are always armchair generals out there with big finecast penis's that like to talk tough.

Evidently...

Firstborn wrote:
Local tournaments don't count? Why is that?

I would have thought the answer would have been obvious - and btw i said Store, as in "generally they manage 12 players" Store tournaments - size of field, and influence of local meta. It is too small a pool to claim any validity on "this list is awesome on"

Theres a reason rankings has a points reduction for small tournaments.

Firstborn wrote:Our top local guy went to Feast of Blades in Chicago and beat the guy that took first.

Which, in a dice game is not necessarily indicative of relative skill at all. Especially over one game. You know, its the reason tournaments are over a few rounds....

Firstborn wrote:You played a lot of 5th, but you don't even know about Fatecrusher?

Given this is the first time you have bothered to name the list, you really should temper your surprise - yes, I know about Fatecrusher. Sorry, i thought you had something actually original you might post up. You still havent posted your exact list, or why it was so superior to everyone elses fate crusher list.

Firstborn wrote: I used to destroy Draigo Wing builds with it. Just flat out annihilate them in assault.

They let you assault them? Then you played against newbs. Your 6" moving army doesnt get to assault unless you are very lucky

edited by Manchu

Edited. Please keep in mind that Rule Number One is Be Polite. This means that you need to stick to attacking arguments rather than people. If you cannot post on DakkaDakka without making personal attacks then your account will be suspended. Thanks ~ Manchu


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wow, it looks like Machu the mod doesn't like the fact I broke the norm and dominated Grey Knights with my Daemons in 5th.
It is the reality of the situation, and I am happy to prove it if you want to play a game of 5th. Heck, I still kept my old rulebook and wouldn't
mind playing an old game for nostalgia sakes.

And trust me, Nosferatuo1001, if you take Draigo Wing against my Fatecrusher daemons, there will be massive assaults happening all over
the place. Screening your Paladins with Psyrifleman won't save you.

It's now time to put up, or shut up.