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I wanted to hear about the idea of adding the Nephilim Jetfighter to my Beial DW list as air support. I know it costs a ton of points, and the blacksword missiles sort of suck. But i love the look of the model and I feel like its better points spent than IG allies with Vendetta. Thoughts?

It is not better points spent. For potentially a few more points than the nephilim you get a scoring unit and a better all around flier.

Model looks really great, just keep it on the shelf and bring the IG Vendetta if you want to compete.

I don't know anything really about the IG or other fliers that you can really ally with. But I think the Nephilim is a good choice to take especially over the Dark Talon.

It come stock with the TL Heavy Bolter, Lascannon, and the 6 missiles. Which only two of the missiles can be fired at a time. Also being armor 11 all around is good for a flier, with 3 HP as well.

What makes it most dangerous is against vehicles of your enemy, the rule it has- Unrelenting Hunter: When shooting at enemy cehicles a Nephilim can choose to treat any weapon destroyed results as Immobilised. (pg50 DA Codex)

Which means that its not going to take much to take out enemy vehicles, or affecting enemy fliers. Depending on what the flier is you have 2-3 options to shoot. TL Las, and missiles. Or all three options if the vehicle is facing right direction. I.E you come in behind the enemy lines and have direct facing to back armor.

Its not a game breaker but the enemy can't ignore the Nephilim fighter(s) zooming in and taking shots at everything. Every game I've placed since the new codez released I've included one Nephilim. Every unit that takes shots at the Nephilim is a shot not being taken at my other squads/vehicles.

If you want to go for the "best" option for a competitive list, it's probably either a few allys or a different flyer. Such as the Storm Eagle from Imperial Armour Aeronautica.

If however, you wish to field the nephilim because the model is cool there are 2 ways to run it. The first is for AA but this is the weakest, as you keep the TL LC but it's the only weapon that's going to be effective vs AV 12 flyers, your Hv bolter wont scratch them and the missiles are barely worth wasting on AV 12.

The second, far more useful way is to run it as an anti-ground flyer that mops up infantry. For this take the mega bolter and fire 10 shots/turn (for 3 turns until you exhaust your missiles) at BS5 vs most targets (strafing run) & do plenty of damage. Another great use for this is transport hunting or getting the rear armour of tanks (if the rear armour is 10-11 it's worth it).

For Anti Air, the best options for DA are more traditional flakk missiles and lascannons. Any TL LC will be nice for a second chance to hit, or a librarian giving prescience (divination) to a dev squad that decides to fire snap shot lascannons in the sky (again for rerolls and a better chance at a 6). AV 12 in the air is a real nuisance.

I've run my nephilim a few times, lets just say I'm glad I glued on the mega bolter over the TL LC, I've not found it effective at all in an AA role, it's simply too costly for 1 TL LC / turn that it's on the field, I would much rather use it on infantry with mass fire.

smee wrote:
If you want to go for the "best" option for a competitive list, it's probably either a few allys or a different flyer. Such as the Storm Eagle from Imperial Armour Aeronautica.

If however, you wish to field the nephilim because the model is cool there are 2 ways to run it. The first is for AA but this is the weakest, as you keep the TL LC but it's the only weapon that's going to be effective vs AV 12 flyers, your Hv bolter wont scratch them and the missiles are barely worth wasting on AV 12.

The second, far more useful way is to run it as an anti-ground flyer that mops up infantry. For this take the mega bolter and fire 10 shots/turn (for 3 turns until you exhaust your missiles) at BS5 vs most targets (strafing run) & do plenty of damage. Another great use for this is transport hunting or getting the rear armour of tanks (if the rear armour is 10-11 it's worth it).

For Anti Air, the best options for DA are more traditional flakk missiles and lascannons. Any TL LC will be nice for a second chance to hit, or a librarian giving prescience (divination) to a dev squad that decides to fire snap shot lascannons in the sky (again for rerolls and a better chance at a 6). AV 12 in the air is a real nuisance.

I've run my nephilim a few times, lets just say I'm glad I glued on the mega bolter over the TL LC, I've not found it effective at all in an AA role, it's simply too costly for 1 TL LC / turn that it's on the field, I would much rather use it on infantry with mass fire.

This. GW really screwed up with the Nephilms fluff, its not an air superiority fighter its a ground support fighter (if the missles actually had rules that did something perhaps this would be different, GW missed something bid there). Peoples expectations for rules based off the fluff give the Nephilm a bad rep. Is it better than a valk or a raven, no...but those were never designed as flyers and benefit greatly from the edition change. For 180 points it can earn its points back by targeting ground units or light armored vehicles assuming it's not running into guard or trip ravens. Frankly I see a use for it but if I'm looking for AA for an all comers DA list then i'm spending points elsewhere if I expect alot of AV 12 flyers.

 Ministry wrote:
Model looks really great, just keep it on the shelf and bring the IG Vendetta if you want to compete.

Funny... I forgot where the Vendetta was in the DA book...

yes, we know it pales in comparison, but some of us don't wish to pick up a whole part of a new army to field one flyer.

Here's my tip: run it up an enemy flyer's tailpipe, that will blow any flyer out of the sky

I would take no flyer before I took that overpriced pos. Model looks great and blows on the tabletop. As air superiority it is an epic failure, and as anti infantry it is barely mediocre.

If you NEED a flyer, ally with guard and take a vendetta. If flakk and quad guns can get it done for you, by all means go that route.

GW really dropped the ball here. 80 dollars and just shy of 200 points for an AV11 flyer that is bad at what it is supposed to do.

I would be more happy if it didn't have "Jetfighter" in the title. Does that sound stupid? I can't justify it. The other thing is in my gaming group a lot of people are doing the IG Vendetta ally grouping with their marine stuff so I feel like I am just spending points to balance the game but using the same exact models. In a way it takes away from the game because I 'FEEL' that I need something in the air and sad that the Nephilim isn't what I need. DEV squad with 4 flakk missiles probably sounds my route.

First off I already own 3 vendettas and one BA storm raven, so i am not looking for an air superoirty fighter. Obviously the Nephlim is NOT an air superiority fighter. However it just conjures images of the P-51 mustang strafing German troops in the open. It may in actuality "suck" but some part of me would love to tear up an Orc or Nid horde with 3 of them just strafing with the mega and heavy bolters. Very cinimatic!

My question is this: have you actually used the Jetfighter yet? I know that most people don't play any more because mathhammer and wishlisting is more fun, but if there is any actual table time given to a Nephilim, I'd lkke to hear that rather than "it sucks, use a Vendetta" as a response.

I think its an ok vehicle, but probably not worth the points. It has a good dogfighting rule and if there are no enemy flyers is a much better ground attack craft than the other variant. Althiugh if you like mustangs strafing ground targets, then surely the wings full of bolters is the one for you

I've used one as I knew my opponent was likely to run a stormraven. However the nephillim turned up first and so got nuked as soon as the stormraven showed up. Admittedly my flyer use skills arelimited at this point, but flyers do seem to be rather reliant on reserves chance.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
My question is this: have you actually used the Jetfighter yet? I know that most people don't play any more because mathhammer and wishlisting is more fun, but if there is any actual table time given to a Nephilim, I'd lkke to hear that rather than "it sucks, use a Vendetta" as a response.

I've used it in all 3 games I've played with the new book. All three games were at 2k with a single force org. I took 2 Nephlims as 1 just seemed like not enough. I wound up playing trip raven GK.. Out of the 3 games I drew 1 and lost 2, however that was no fault of the Nephlims. Yes they died to the stormravens each game but they managed to take 1 down in the first game and did a good job taking out razorbacks for the rest of my army.

They defiantly are worth considering as you fill out a list but they are in no way an must include.

Get Azrael > IG Allies > put Azrael in with IG Infantry blob for 4++ invuln > use fast attack slots to get lots of Vendettas > ??? > Profit

< Taken by the void dragon. >

 TedNugent wrote:
Get Azrael > IG Allies > put Azrael in with IG Infantry blob for 4++ invuln > use fast attack slots to get lots of Vendettas > ??? > Profit

My thoughts exactly.

 Che-Vito wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
Get Azrael > IG Allies > put Azrael in with IG Infantry blob for 4++ invuln > use fast attack slots to get lots of Vendettas > ??? > Profit

Some people may genuinely just want to play a DA list without Allies.
Most armies CAN play competitively without allies; and I'm not looking forward to the slew of tournies this year consisting of "Army X with Allies from Codex: Vendettas."

My thoughts exactly. So, besides Casper, has anyone actually used a Nephilim? or just sat on the net complaining about it?

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
My thoughts exactly. So, besides Casper, has anyone actually used a Nephilim? or just sat on the net complaining about it?

Complaining is what the internet was invented for. Duh.

So far I've used it twice out of maybe 3 games, but I don't think I've gotten a complete picture of it yet. The games I did use it were against Chaos Nurgle without real AA so it was never in much danger of being shot down. Though having 10 shots to put on a target certainly made cultists far less of a nuance for my infantry. Well that and 7 Str 6 shots with 3 Str 5 shots certainly seemed to make fighting a T5 army easier in general. Would have been nice if it at least had a Str 7 weapon though.

I would have to agree with the above though about reserves being a big deal even on paper. I would think the TL LasCannon could wreck an AV12 flier plausibly but I would really prefer getting the first shot since that doesn't always seem to work in my experience. Maybe try and grab the Planing trait to hold onto it till you're ready. If I was really expecting to deal with fliers though I would certainly bring along some Devastators and an Interceptor gun. Regardless if the fighter is worth it's points right now/ever or not, playing "fair" is just silly.

So far I like it.

The answer really depends on your type of play.

If you are playing in any truly competative circle than you'll be facing off against 13 or more years of repressed angst and debilitating social abuse that has congealed into a form of inferiority complex... known by is more common name: math hammer.

anyway, joking asside, if you play competatively, it's not a great unit. By the grace of it simply being a flyer, it can be a vialbe counter to another player's flying units, but the dice will ultimately decide.

If you play more casually, this unit offers you a lot. the last few codices have added Flyers as a standard choice in most lists... but older codices still do not have them (Eldar, Orks, Tau, Nids, etc) ... there are exceptions such as flying monsterous creatures...

In any case, of the existing flyers, the best is by far the Helldrake, then the Vendetta. The Nephilim actually comes in a prety respectable 3rd IMO. Other than that you really only have a few of the vanilla SM flyers, and the Necrons to worry about.

Give your Nephilim a Vulcan Megabolter. That in tandem with the two Heavy Bolers, and the missiles is a massive amount of firepower.

Is it just me or is the allies matrix spawning the absolute worst trend in the game.

"I need advice for my army."
"IG allies, get vendettas."
"I didn't even tell you what I r-"
"Doesn't matter. Run Vendettas."

There is such little room to work with when you have Vendettas, Stormravens, and Heldrakes setting the bar so high. I know it lacks a lot of High Strength weapons, but it can't be all that bad can it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'd also argue that the Vendetta is better than the heldrake simply by versatility alone. Vendettas are naturally Anti-tank and Anti-flyer but it can carry troops that can be fitted into more specific roles. Plasma vets and vendetta will do more damage to termies than a Heldrake could. Vendetta with melta vets can take out more tanks.

 TedNugent wrote:
Get Azrael > IG Allies > put Azrael in with IG Infantry blob for 4++ invuln > use fast attack slots to get lots of Vendettas > ??? > Profit

And a Heavy slot to get a Avenger, hell, you can convert one from the Nephilim.

En Excelsis wrote:

If you play more casually, this unit offers you a lot. the last few codices have added Flyers as a standard choice in most lists... but older codices still do not have them (Eldar, Orks, Tau, Nids, etc) ... there are exceptions such as flying monsterous creatures...

Well technically the Orks have 3 don't they? Hoping they get every army covered for aircraft this year. IG are a great theme army but as the go-to allies it's a bit more stale. Really makes me think they need to adjust price points on the pre-flyer flyers.

En Excelsis wrote:

In any case, of the existing flyers, the best is by far the Helldrake, then the Vendetta. The Nephilim actually comes in a prety respectable 3rd IMO. Other than that you really only have a few of the vanilla SM flyers, and the Necrons to worry about.

I've been debating picking up a Helldrake though wasn't really sure beyond it having the AV12. Not sure about third place though. Still dreading Storm Ravens, and some seem to think the Talon is better though on paper I'm not entirely sure why. Of course unit to unit comparisons fall apart as soon as anyone remembers to bring some land based AA.

The Nephilim is fun, as I said earlier it's best used as anti infantry.

If you're running Dark Angels, want a pure Dark angels list and want a competitive flyer, I recommend grabbing a Storm Eagle from Imperial Armour Aeronautica, I said it earlier on but I'm saying again cos it's just.. amazing

What are the points for a vendetta? With a full load out of TL LC?

Tagony wrote:
What are the points for a vendetta? With a full load out of TL LC?

vendettas always come with 3 TL LC. They can add heavy bolters if they want. The cost the same as 13 meltaguns.

Tagony wrote:
What are the points for a vendetta? With a full load out of TL LC?

ninja'd by my Camoragh comrade!

And dirt cheap at the price. Seriously. Brokenly so.

 Ascalam wrote:
And dirt cheap at the price. Seriously. Brokenly so.

Yea I own three and never field more then one, they really needed to cost 170 IMO.

 Savageconvoy wrote:

"I need advice for my army."
"IG allies, get vendettas."
"I didn't even tell you what I r-"
"Doesn't matter. Run Vendettas."

I'm starting to get tired of seeing IG allies and a couple of vendettas in just about every opponent I face. I play IG and am seriously considering starting a new army just because I'm sick of seeing 4-5 vendettas on every table.

Vendettahammer 40k.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Ascalam wrote:
And dirt cheap at the price. Seriously. Brokenly so.

Yea I own three and never field more then one, they really needed to cost 170 IMO.

and be dropped to AV11