Possible Credt Card Surcharge in 40 States [US]

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**nels1031**

I know this isn't exactly Wargaming news, but given the recent sentiments regarding current GW prices and how they are pricing folks into other gaming systems, its worth knowing about.

Please move if this topic is inappropriate for News and Rumors.

Extra 1.5% to 4.0% for purchases using a credit card. Retailers that choose to put this fee into use have to disclose the fee, maybe a discrete sign above the checkout or on the receipt near the return policies. Businesses that operate with a small margin line in their products or high overhead costs are most likely to use this fee, as it eats into their profits. My business (I sell fun, but not tabletop gaming fun) will be partaking in this fee, unfortunately. The fees from the chain of stores I work for easily rack up to six figures and the owners aren't prepared to eat that, nor should they. One more inconvenience thrust upon my customers that I'll have to deal with.

Pay cash or debit card when making a face to face purchase or just buy online with Paypal.

http://news.yahoo.com/retailers-may-add-surcharge-credit-card-transactions-195833298--sector.html

(Reuters) - Retailers in 40 U.S. states can now charge up to 4 percent extra when consumers pay for goods and services with a credit card.
These so-called "checkout fees" went into effect January 27, and do not apply to debit card payments. The fees are illegal in California, New York, Texas and seven other states.
It is up to individual businesses to decide whether or not to add the fee. They also need to disclose it to consumers.
The surcharge is the result of the biggest anti-trust settlement in U.S. history. In 2005, a group of merchants claimed that MasterCard, Visa, and nine other companies including JP Morgan Chase & Co conspired to fix the fees that stores pay to accept credit card purchases.
After years of negotiations the case, which was in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of New York, settled. The credit card companies and banks agreed to pay $6 billion to the merchants who sued.
As part of the settlement, the merchants are allowed to charge customers a fee equal to the cost of accepting cards, typically 1.5 percent to 3 percent of the purchase price.
"While it is legal to charge extra, there are still limitations," said Kathy Li, the San Francisco director of Consumer Action, a consumer advocacy agency. "For example, what kind of cards can be charged? What cards can't be charged?"
To avoid the surcharge, consumers can pay with cash or debit cards. And when shopping online, "there's always PayPal or other electronic payment options that can't charge extra," said Li.

**SickSix**

So, were shop owners eating this percentage before and was it higher? Not clear on why this happened.

**katfude**

When you use a credit card, the shop owner pays a percentage of the total amount to the credit card company as a "convenience fee" of sorts. That was generally not forwarded on to the customer. A small time FLGS shop here won't accept transactions under $10 on a card because that fee made it a worthless transaction that actually costed them money.

Now, the retailer has the option of making you pay that card fee, but they must notify you somehow that you are incurring that extra fee. I am curious to see how they are required to notify you.

**Grot 6**

SO stores are just another of the countless victims of credit card compnaies and the industrial banking system....

Who would have thought.

Load your paypal with some clink and call it a day.

**Shadelkan**

Same thing happens in Canada. As a store owner, properly financing your store usually means you don't have to pay it, nor the customers, but the business needs to make a certain amount of money for that to happen. Not sure if that's how it works in the states though.

**Psychohavoc**

FLGS here gives you a cash discount and local government offices, DMV for example have been allowed to forward that cost to people for years.

**jayzerus**

It's unfortunate, because many banks charge a fee for using your bank card as debit. I don't like to carry a lot of cash on me, but I may start doing that instead of paying the premium for the "convenience" of having a card in my wallet.

**Alpharius**

Finally something that Massachusetts WON'T be charging us for!

**Marshall Ragnar**

Same with NY. Still shocked we aren't getting hit with this 'tax' also.

**Piston Honda**

Use to only use my card at my FLGS because I hate dealing with money. It's tedious and outdated.

The owner told me about the ridiculous credit card fees and how much he has to pay out of pocket for the service. It's more than a number of gamers at the shop make in a year.

I now only pay in cash at his shop.

**buckero0**

You guys act like credit cards have played nicely in the past. Discover charges in some instances 12% to businesses for the pleasure of using their card, not to mention acharge for a special machine to swipe their card. VisaMC AMEX aren't too far behind. The government doest care about small business owners, esp not our current administration.

**czakk**

I'm not an american so don't follow all your politics but why would the federal government be involved in what should be a private contract matter between stores, and credit card companies (passing on fees for services to the customer which was previously forbidden by the contract between card companies and stores)?

I gather the surcharge is a result of a lawsuit by merchants against the credit card companies, not the action of an executive branch out to stomp on small businesses.

Or are you suggesting that either legislation or some form of regulation be imposed to prevent credit card companies from charging (high) fees?

**Mathieu Raymond**

When we bought our store, the first thing we did was call up AMEX and cancel our terminal's access to their cards. Most people pay with credit cards because they don't want to pay the debit fees.

I've gone back to cash. I only have a basic service fee on my bank account, get the money out of my financial institutions' ATMs, I only use the debit card for emergencies.

It almost feels like it's not our money anymore, but theirs.

AT

Little bit of misunderstanding on this...

- The fees have always been there, the credit card processors charge for their services.
- PayPal charges as well, that doesn't avoid it.
- The change is that business may now explicitly pass on the charge to the customers. Instead of just baking it into their prices.

**nolzur**

And yet, most of these places still will not take checks - even from people they know who are loyal customers.

**czakk**

Mathieu Raymond wrote:
When we bought our store, the first thing we did was call up AMEX and cancel our terminal's access to their cards. Most people pay with credit cards because they don't want to pay the debit fees.

I've gone back to cash. I only have a basic service fee on my bank account, get the money out of my financial institutions' ATMs, I only use the debit card for emergencies.

It almost feels like it's not our money anymore, but theirs.

You'll be able to pass the fee on in your store in Canada soon as well, the feds are dragging the card companies to the competition tribunal: http://m.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/canadians-strongly-oppose-credit-card-surcharges-survey/article4201501/?service=mobile

Any US stores out there planning on reducing prices now that they can pass the cost on?

**lucasbuffalo**

This upset me until I saw Texas on the safety list :3

**Clunker**

Anyone know what the other 'seven states' that are on this 'safety list' as lucasbuffalo put it?

**Vaktathi**

Nothing is new here except that the retailers can now openly charge this instead of building it into their pricing so that the cash customers subsidize the credit card customers.

That said, this is only legal for a part of the US, and most FLGS's aren't going to start going out of their way to increase prices on customers, it pisses people off and causes them to look elsewhere the next time and the retailer knows it. NPR had a great piece on it the other day.

**nkelsch**

Stores already do this... they build the fee into prices and then give discounts for cash.

And just because someone CAN charge doesn't mean they will. The nature of your business really determines it.

Am I buying a 7.99$ Chinese food takeout? Yeah, I can see why you are cash only.

Am I buying a 2000$ TV from best buy? No one can possibly buy that in cash... if someone charged me 4% for that transaction, I would probably shop somewhere else. For those vendors it makes sense to continue to eat the cost and build it in to the price.

Am I buying 200$ of plasticrack? Eh... this is a hard one. Not everyone saves money to buy cash. Not everyone carries cash for these purchases, and it is nice to have a paper trail. Raising prices may drive sales out of your store... but regular customers should 'know better' if it is hurting you where casual customers won't care.

Also... Companies can do stuff like 'requiring signature' and other security steps which slow down checkout but prevent fraud and lower the fee. The reason some stores pay 4% is because they are swiping your card with almost ZERO verification. Stores that require signatures, have to type in the last 4 digets manually and so on, have lower fees, and in turn a few seconds of inconvenience results in less money lost all around.

If you buy 'mom and pop' you should already be aware that you should be using cash.

**Sergeant Horse**

Stores should get smart and just use Square for their credit cards

**kronk**

nolzur wrote:
And yet, most of these places still will not take checks - even from people they know who are loyal customers.

Unless you're 80 years old and on a pension plan, or paying your yard service guy who may or may not be here legally, why the feth are you buying anything with a check?

I'd rather be behind 4 screaming toddlers with whooping cough than one soccer mom trying to figure out how to write a fething check at the grocery store...

**Cyporiean**

Sergeant Horse wrote:
Stores should get smart and just use Square for their credit cards

https://squareup.com/pricing

2.75% per charge, or $275 a month.

AT

Sergeant Horse wrote:
Stores should get smart and just use Square for their credit cards

https://squareup.com/pricing

Some form of processing fee is pretty much unavoidable.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ack, Ninja'd!

**lucasbuffalo**

kronk wrote:
nolzur wrote:
And yet, most of these places still will not take checks - even from people they know who are loyal customers.

Unless you're 80 years old and on a pension plan, or paying your yard service guy who may or may not be here legally, why the feth are you buying anything with a check?

I'd rather be behind 4 screaming toddlers with whooping cough than one soccer mom trying to figure out how to write a fething check at the grocery store...

Most large stores in Texas (HEB, Wal-Mart, etc.) Have a thing where all you do is sign your name on a check and a printer does the rest on the check for you. Takes less time than a debit card and works even if there are internet connectivity and other issues going on.

**the_Armyman**

czakk wrote:
I'm not an american so don't follow all your politics but why would the federal government be involved in what should be a private contract matter between stores, and credit card companies (passing on fees for services to the customer which was previously forbidden by the contract between card companies and stores)?

Allow a government to grow large enough, it will get into all sorts of things it has no business being involved in.

**ph34r**

the_Armyman wrote:
czakk wrote:
I'm not an american so don't follow all your politics but why would the federal government be involved in what should be a private contract matter between stores, and credit card companies (passing on fees for services to the customer which was previously forbidden by the contract between card companies and stores)?

Allow a government to grow large enough, it will get into all sorts of things it has no business being involved in.

Yeah, pointless matters like industry regulation. We sure would be in better shape if regulation didn't exist

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grot 6 wrote:
Load your paypal with some clink and call it a day.

Paypal is hardly a good solution.

**czakk**

lucasbuffalo wrote:
kronk wrote:
nolzur wrote:
And yet, most of these places still will not take checks - even from people they know who are loyal customers.

Unless you're 80 years old and on a pension plan, or paying your yard service guy who may or may not be here legally, why the feth are you buying anything with a check?

I'd rather be behind 4 screaming toddlers with whooping cough than one soccer mom trying to figure out how to write a fething check at the grocery store...

Most large stores in Texas (HEB, Wal-Mart, etc.) Have a thing where all you do is sign your name on a check and a printer does the rest on the check for you. Takes less time than a debit card and works even if there are internet connectivity and other issues going on.

That's interesting. Most retailers up north here wouldn't know what to do with a check (well the manager would but the kids working the till probably haven't ever filled one out).

Debit fees for merchants here are so cheap everyone just uses debit. It is about a 12 cent flat fee per transaction, instead of the credit card companies % fee. Cheaper on average than dealing with checks or even cash (if you take costs like counterfeits, anti-theft measures and tiller error into account).

**Alpharius**

Credit card surcharges are banned by law in 10 states: California, Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Kansas, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, Oklahoma and Texas.

**czakk**

the_Armyman wrote:
czakk wrote:
I'm not an american so don't follow all your politics but why would the federal government be involved in what should be a private contract matter between stores, and credit card companies (passing on fees for services to the customer which was previously forbidden by the contract between card companies and stores)?

Allow a government to grow large enough, it will get into all sorts of things it has no business being involved in.

Yeah, but we seem to be dealing with the exact opposite case here - the federal government isn't stepping in between consumers / stores / credit card companies at all. Except in the States where the State government has told merchants they can't pass the cost of credit card transactions on to the consumer directly and thereby force all consumers to subsidize credit card users in those states by forcing stores to charge higher prices to everyone to cover the cost of transaction fees.