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Made to do a murder mystery at departmental away day. Written by boss. The victim died by gunshot wound to the heart. Autopsy confirms 44mm round used…
Guessing 44mm doesn’t exist, or is sufficiently large to obliterate the general chest region?
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He probably meant .44 Magnum
44mm is medium caliber anti-aircraft cannon, or early tank cannon, range. and I don't think 44mm specifically exists, but for reference,
These are 40mm Bofors AA cannons...
A person hit by one is going to be turned into hamburger.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2023/04/26 16:55:10
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
40mm is also the caliber of M203's and assorted NATO grenade launchers. I guess someone could have been shot by one at such a close range that the grenade doesn't have time to arm
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Bobthehero wrote: 40mm is also the caliber of M203's and assorted NATO grenade launchers. I guess someone could have been shot by one at such a close range that the grenade doesn't have time to arm
Yes, but you'll still have a fist sized hole in your chest and a very obvious unexploded grenade in it.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Made to do a murder mystery at departmental away day. Written by boss. The victim died by gunshot wound to the heart. Autopsy confirms 44mm round used…
Bobthehero wrote: 40mm is also the caliber of M203's and assorted NATO grenade launchers. I guess someone could have been shot by one at such a close range that the grenade doesn't have time to arm
Yes, but you'll still have a fist sized hole in your chest and a very obvious unexploded grenade in it.
I wonder if it would stay stuck there. Though tbh, a 40mm round kind just looks like a big bullet.
Bobthehero wrote: 40mm is also the caliber of M203's and assorted NATO grenade launchers. I guess someone could have been shot by one at such a close range that the grenade doesn't have time to arm
CptJake wrote: A 44mm round to the heart would do the trick...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Not sure where you get a 44mm gun/cannon though.
Hmm... Russians used to make a gun a few mm bigger so that people couldn't use the captured guns/ammo. Beyond that.... biggest thing I've ever heard of being used for a murder that wasn't an explosive or a vehicle was 20mm Oerlikon.
Edit:
And, then, suddenly, I remember. If you use a subcaliber round in a M1937, it's 44mm. Mind you, it's still a light anti tank gun.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/04/27 02:56:06
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
CptJake wrote: A 44mm round to the heart would do the trick...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Not sure where you get a 44mm gun/cannon though.
Hmm... Russians used to make a gun a few mm bigger so that people couldn't use the captured guns/ammo. Beyond that.... biggest thing I've ever heard of being used for a murder that wasn't an explosive or a vehicle was 20mm Oerlikon.
Edit:
And, then, suddenly, I remember. If you use a subcaliber round in a M1937, it's 44mm. Mind you, it's still a light anti tank gun.
Well, there you go, poor dude got capped by a sub cal from a M1937! Can't be too many of them around so finding the perp ought to be relatively easy. Mystery solved!
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
Now the murder mystery is beginning to take shape. Next step is to canvas the local VFW and American Legion clubs to see if they had one parked outside that has gone missing. Could be quite the creative writing exercise.
Bobthehero wrote: 40mm is also the caliber of M203's and assorted NATO grenade launchers. I guess someone could have been shot by one at such a close range that the grenade doesn't have time to arm
Yes, but you'll still have a fist sized hole in your chest and a very obvious unexploded grenade in it.
I wonder if it would stay stuck there. Though tbh, a 40mm round kind just looks like a big bullet.
Garand Thumb has a youtube video where he tested that, some of the rounds got stuck if they struck the spine/shoulder blades but others would go clean through the ballistics dummy.
Made to do a murder mystery at departmental away day. Written by boss. The victim died by gunshot wound to the heart. Autopsy confirms 44mm round used…
Any missing AA mounts?
Considering half the participants were reservists or serving it did lead to various theories like proximity to live fire tank training grounds. But it was just shocking consider what we do how sketchy on the basics much of the staff are.
The_Real_Chris wrote: Considering half the participants were reservists or serving it did lead to various theories like proximity to live fire tank training grounds. But it was just shocking consider what we do how sketchy on the basics much of the staff are.
On the one hand, using a really unusual cartridge/caliber as a murder weapon is obviously going to draw additional attention, but there's also the sheer improbability of it.
For example, figuring on the ballistics on a 40mm+ slug has to be monumentally difficult. A common pistol round is going to have much better documentation.
As people have pointed out, there probably isn't a lot of definitive information on what a 44mm hole means. Obviously, people think a 40mm AA or AT round, but there's a ton of 37mm ammunition out there, and probably not a lot of ballistic gel tests using those calibers to tell you exactly what size of hole they would make.
I mean, who's to say it wasn't an M79 using a training round?
Or - thinking outside the box a bit - why not a muzzle-loader? Some of the heavy "fort defense" weapons had absurdly large projectiles. I betcha there's not a lot of ballistic fingerprints on Chinese jingals.
Well, there you go, poor dude got capped by a sub cal from a M1937! Can't be too many of them around so finding the perp ought to be relatively easy. Mystery solved!
Particularly since they weren't used much outside the Russian Front and a few African bush wars.
Or - thinking outside the box a bit - why not a muzzle-loader? Some of the heavy "fort defense" weapons had absurdly large projectiles. I betcha there's not a lot of ballistic fingerprints on Chinese jingals.
You'd be surprised on this one. I can remember Pittsburgh PD getting a crash course on the ballistics of a swivel gun a bout twenty years ago. That said, since most of those guns are hand made, the ballistics can very significantly between guns.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/04/28 13:50:38
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
And whilst we’re talking dubious calibres? Any Dakkanauts, outside of military service, ever fired something really big/really fun?
Don’t want to place limiters, but I’m primarily thinking field guns/artillery, but honking Geet automatics would count.
A Swivel gun! Well calibre was hard to tell, it had a chicken wire like material holding a number of lead balls together (it wasn't called canister but something else I can't remember...) and a half charge of black powder, but was amusing. I suppose it wasn't that big (I have been stood about 20 metres, but forward of the muzzle, away from a 12-lb cannon and when that went off it was like being kicked in the chest.
You'd be surprised on this one. I can remember Pittsburgh PD getting a crash course on the ballistics of a swivel gun a bout twenty years ago. That said, since most of those guns are hand made, the ballistics can very significantly between guns.
Yes, but the same weapon can also use different calibers of ammunition because there aren't cartridges going into a chamber, just balls stuffed up the muzzle. The other day I read a monograph on Civil War rifles and how units could be issue with two types of ammunition - .58 caliber and .57 caliber - because as the fouling built up in the barrel, the "correct" caliber ball would be harder to load. Thus troops stacked the larger minie balls at the front of their ammo box and the smaller ones at the back.
I'm thinking the same applies with wall guns or swivel guns. At relatively short range (where any hit is basically a kill), you could fire a rock if you wanted to.
As for firing heavy ordnance, I'm too cheap to do that on my own. I let the generous American taxpayer pay for my fun with machineguns, grenade launchers and an AT-4. Not that I got much of it, but I enjoyed it all the same.
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The thing is much above .50 BMG you're not going to be able to say for certain what caliber was used on a body other than "a big one". Once the damage is just leaving chunks there isn't much to be told from the damage.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Grey Templar wrote: The thing is much above .50 BMG you're not going to be able to say for certain what caliber was used on a body other than "a big one". Once the damage is just leaving chunks there isn't much to be told from the damage.
Shows like CSI have created this myth that dedicated scientists can tell everything from a single fiber or wound channel. Forensics have gotten a lot better, but there are still very real limits.
Of course, based on what I see on television, the most dangerous city in the world is Oxford. Man, those British university types really hate each other. Seems like they have a murder almost every week!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/04/29 13:48:01
You should try Midsommer. Wowzers that place is a hotbed of murder and intrigue!
Turning back to firearms, when it comes to ammo, is there anything, for want of a better term, seasonal about it? As in sometimes you can find certain calibres easily, only for supply to suddenly dry up?
Do calibres and that come and go out of fashion as new shooters are released to market?
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Specific stores might have a fluctuation as they sell out and need to wait for their new order to come in just because you're not getting weekly shipments of every caliber, but new releases on the market generally don't affect the supply of ammo. A new 9mm PCC isn't going to cause a noticeable uptick in the sales of 9mm compared to the general demand.
The calibers that exist on the market have pretty much been stable for decades. New guns come and go, but they rarely have new calibers so their effect on the ammunition supply is minimal. The only new calibers are usually very niche large bore hunting/anti-material calibers for extremely expensive and small quantity rifles, stuff like .408 Cheytac.
This is because by and large everybody has figured out what calibers people actually like or want to buy, so breaking into the market with a new gun that also shoots a new cartridge is a hard sell. If you design a new gun, you are almost certainly not designing a new cartridge to go with it. You'll use an existing one because not only does it save you development time but there will be a ready supply of ammo for your customers.
Back around the turn of the century when self-loading firearms were finally practical, there was a flood of hundreds of different calibers that were very similar to each other trying to compete. But when all was said and done only a dozen or so won out and became widely used enough to stick around.
Forgotten Weapons has several videos on the subject, here is one of them
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/05/01 15:27:10
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
The_Real_Chris wrote: Considering half the participants were reservists or serving it did lead to various theories like proximity to live fire tank training grounds. But it was just shocking consider what we do how sketchy on the basics much of the staff are.
On the one hand, using a really unusual cartridge/caliber as a murder weapon is obviously going to draw additional attention, but there's also the sheer improbability of it.
Being bored at work once the topic came up about what gun to use. My answer? 45 LC revolver, using a chamber sleeve to fire a round other than 45LC, let's say 9mm or any other caliber you don't own a weapon in. Save a few 9mm casings from the shooting range floor. Plant those casings near the body.
I got some open mouthed "you've thought of this before" looks.
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