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So I am still in the early stages of setting up my second Space Marine army, and I am curious about something.

Firstly, I've seen more than few posts here on the forums about Marines using Autocannons and how effective that can be. I did some looking on Forgeworld and found the Autocannon sets for the Pre-Heresy Legions.

What I did NOT see, what a single entry in any of the existing SM codeices about equiping marines with them. It's not an option as a heavy weapon for Devs or Tac squads with 10 men.

Under what circumstances is it even possible to use those items? Have they been added in Eratta?

I would be super grateful if someone could post a link to any of the rules for those items.

Cheers

CSM can have them.

Chaos Space Marines can have them, and Legion armies can have them. That's pretty much it.

En Excelsis wrote:
So I am still in the early stages of setting up my second Space Marine army, and I am curious about something.

Firstly, I've seen more than few posts here on the forums about Marines using Autocannons and how effective that can be. I did some looking on Forgeworld and found the Autocannon sets for the Pre-Heresy Legions.

What I did NOT see, what a single entry in any of the existing SM codeices about equiping marines with them. It's not an option as a heavy weapon for Devs or Tac squads with 10 men.

Under what circumstances is it even possible to use those items? Have they been added in Eratta?

I would be super grateful if someone could post a link to any of the rules for those items.

Cheers

yup marines cant have them, only CSM

C:SM can put them on predators and dreads.

C:SM is famous for putting them on dreads, actually.

Bare bones predators are not half bad either. Unlike their heavier counterparts they can move and shoot, and are extremely durable at range.

Edit. Though given the meta of today i would take dakka preads. C:SM gets them for so cheap

That's true. I haven't used a non-fast predator in a long, long time. Maybe auto/las is not that good for Vanilla. What would be the best way to bring lascannons as vanilla, then?

Wow thanks for the fast replies everyone. Kind of a bummer that those forgeworld models are ultimately useless (since they look amazing).

That clears everything up though

Martel732 wrote:
That's true. I haven't used a non-fast predator in a long, long time. Maybe auto/las is not that good for Vanilla. What would be the best way to bring lascannons as vanilla, then?

Las-preds.

Okay. I guess they just sit there more often. I really like being able to move 6" and still shoot away.

Here is the thing. A bare bones pread is really durable and no one wants to bother shooting it. That's it's real advantage

Now with aegis lines bring buy able you can give your preads a 4+ cover. That makes them nearly as tough as AV 14!
So there is a strong reason to bring 3 preads behind an aegis

By bare bones, you mean autocannon and heavy bolters?

I think he just means the Autocannon turret and nothing else.

Oh wow. That *is* bare bones. Yeah, an AV 13 autocannon is pretty much a non-target.

Now, given that an Aegis gives your predator a 4++ and you can draw the LC sponsons over it (Ive not tried the HB ones yet), bringing them and sticking them behind an aegis is a really good idea. As mentioned, that 4++ cover gives you a huge durability boost.
(either way you should magnatize your predators so you can hot swap. Its extremely easy to do this.)

In today's meta sticking 3 predators with AC/HB behind an aegis line would cost you 305 points for 6 HBs and 3 ACs that are not going to be dislodged from ranged shooting. That's a great tool for delivering a lot of anti-infantry firepower at the right targets (long fangs, etc)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:
Oh wow. That *is* bare bones. Yeah, an AV 13 autocannon is pretty much a non-target.

For the cost of 2 bare bones preds you can buy one AC/LC pred.

So if your going that route your giving up some firepower for extra things you can shoot with.

Its all valid, you just need to find what works for you.

You will never crack that line with MLs either. Another nail in the ML coffin.

I'd do 2 Dakka Preds and a TFC behind an Aegis line. That's an insane amount of anti horde firepower coming from that line.


EDIT: To answer the OP however, yes, as previously mentioned, Vanilla Loyalists can't get mass Autocannons easily beyond Rifleman Dreads for some reason.

It's not just anti horde. The S 6 round for the TFC can torrent down meqs at a reasonable rate. It looks even better if the meqs have cover that mitigates the effectiveness of expensive low AP weaponry.

Martel732 wrote:
It's not just anti horde. The S 6 round for the TFC can torrent down meqs at a reasonable rate. It looks even better if the meqs have cover that mitigates the effectiveness of expensive low AP weaponry.

That's not a bad idea at all. If your TFC gets wrecked, your techmarine can go to fixing your predators.

The nice thing is how cheap that entire solution. Your talking about just over 300 points for a lot of fire. You still have a lot of points left over for storm talons, tactical squads, scouts, etc...

En Excelsis wrote:
Wow thanks for the fast replies everyone. Kind of a bummer that those forgeworld models are ultimately useless (since they look amazing).

That clears everything up though

Unless you decide to throw together a 30k list once in a while, which are incredibly fun and usually enjoyable for both sides, given it is a new take on an extremely worn out dex.

The TFC is one reason I'm getting vanilla allies for my BA. I suppose SW or IG would be better, but the vanilla guys are cheaper. I've already stripped my old metal DC dread for conversion to a rifleman.

A rifleman or two also works really well behind an aegis.
Again, it doubles their durability which helps with the AV12.

You will need to think about something to do other than long range shooting though. Sitting behind an aegis and playing 'WW1 re-enactment' is a sure way to lose the majority of your games.

That's because most of the games are about objectives! Don't over-invest into your back line support. Save some points for actually doing the dirty job of winning the game.

In C:SM there are a few ways to do this. You can make sternguard scoring, which is rock solid. You can use bikes, which are extremely good for getting objectives. You can even bring allies with decent troop choices -- something C:SM is sadly lacking.

The C:SM allies would be mostly for big games. I love having access to null zone, but I'm probably not going with a stormtalon. I may not use C:SM fast attack slot at all. But it will be nice having a tactical squad with combat tactics.

I also find that as BA it has been easier competing after shooting heavily. Long range fire lets me take out enemy transports and enhances my mobility advantage. I probably run on the lower end of scoring models at 2K, but I try to give lots of other units to provide distractions, like FNP bikers. It's what I've got right now, because ASM horde was failing spectacularly.

And being able to combat-squad out of a rhino is pretty sweet.

 labmouse42 wrote:
A rifleman or two also works really well behind an aegis.
Again, it doubles their durability which helps with the AV12.

You will need to think about something to do other than long range shooting though. Sitting behind an aegis and playing 'WW1 re-enactment' is a sure way to lose the majority of your games.

That's because most of the games are about objectives! Don't over-invest into your back line support. Save some points for actually doing the dirty job of winning the game.

You are absolutely right about this. Some people can get caught up on getting Big Guns Never Tire making their Preds into scoring units when that's a 17% chance...I know I've done that before. I often run a Predator and an ADL...I just never thought about putting the two together.

No, I just like to kill stuff that will kill my troops from a safe distance. I made a guy in a BA mirror match go almost into apoplexy when I lascannoned both his DC dreads off the table. Stupid Astorath lists.......