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let's tone it down a bit please people.

It's really not worth getting too upset or angry over.

Thanks.

The most important aspect to any game is community. You can love everything about a game, rules, minis, fluff, etc and if there is no one playing it in your area, then you are screwed (I'd like to make a personal toast to Warhammer: Epic at this point)

That said, if you live in a decent metro area you should be able to find a community of 40k, WH, and WM/H with virtually no problem. Flames of War likely follows up those, but those gamers might play at odd times, or places, like someone's home. Infinity, and Malifaux are quickly growing but can be hit or miss.

For me I have to fall in love with the mythology of the game, i have have to see it and get excited and have my gears turn and feed my imagionation.. Warhammer 40k is about the only game currently on the market that does that.... So go with your guts and interest!

I gotta say, I've played a few games of infinity and I absolutely love it. Both players are always playing, so there isn't any "whelp, it's your turn now, so I'm going to go get a soda and be back in 5 mins while you're moving your stuff" like 40k. I can also say that the miniatures look awesome.

Plus, you can try it out as no cost to you. Proxy 40k models and play a short game with a buddy. That's what I did. The mechanics sold me more than anything else. The rules are free to download.

Never played Warmachine though, so I can't comment on that system.

I will chime in on the warmachine PP side. just because the OP mentioned customer service.

I buy a lot of my models through ebay, and have had on few occasions received a box with a missing piece, or wrong card etc. Shoot off an email and in 4 days I have for no charge, no questions the parts or cards that were missing.

Absolutely some of the BEST customer service i've ever seen.

DaPreacherMan43 wrote:
I will chime in on the warmachine PP side. just because the OP mentioned customer service.

I buy a lot of my models through ebay, and have had on few occasions received a box with a missing piece, or wrong card etc. Shoot off an email and in 4 days I have for no charge, no questions the parts or cards that were missing.

Absolutely some of the BEST customer service i've ever seen.

That's not good service, that's the minimum you really should expect as the company does manufacture the product.

If you're buying 2nd hand then that is a bit above and beyond, otherwise it's just good business keeping a customer happy for a tiny investment on the business' part.

That's not to say other companies don't fail spectacularly at this, but it's really nothing to single them out for praise for.

What i want to know is more about Warmachine: how the company deal with costumers? Do it direct the products to old AND new people? The rules are balanced and dont tend to help newer armies? There is some type of codex creep?

*Customer support is top notch, I've had no issue getting free replacement parts on orders that went arwy from vendors who do things like punch a giant hole in the bottom of the blister and all the parts fall out. It sometimes takes a bit but it always gets here.

*The Developers & Writers are highly active on the forums. In fact you ask a fluff question chances are ol' Doug Seacat might just show up to give you an extensive answer:
http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?137749-Question-for-Seacat-in-regards-to-souls&p=1820265&viewfull=1#post1820265

That's the lead writer for the game going out of his way to answer a player question on how souls work in the universe. This is very typical in the community. The people they have working for them seem very dedicated and passionate about the product. Which I suppose makes sense (they do make a living off all our sweet, sweet nerd money after all). Still they do the extra mile to be invovled and that's great.

*Their rules gurus are accurate, prompt and can speak directly to the developers. Compare the PP rules question form to the 40k YMDC over here and you'll get the picture fast.

*They have great starter boxes that (for the most part), tend to contain relevant pieces you'll use later. A few are duds but nothing is wholly useless.
*They have lots of event support for events that cater to casual players, new players, old players, hardcore players. Even some fluffy stuff.
*Rules are balanced. New pieces are not inherently better. In fact a great deal of the "Top Tier" stuff has been around since the initial prime release. New stuff is still useful though, for the most part. There are always a piece here or there that is above the curve (Stormwall) or below the Curve (Mountain King). But nothing is ever really a "Must Have".
*See above, no "Codex Creep" analogue. You can expect any piece you buy to remain as relevant as the day you bought it, for the most part.

And the main point, do those systems really work with low model count army? Its just i dont see myself assembling and painting big units, and i really wanted a more "skyrmish-like" game...

You can run low model count with certain armies, and it'll work. However you are going to need a lot more models than infinity. My typical 35 pt list will have:
1 Small based warcaster
1 unit of between 6-10 small based models.
1 unit of between 4-6 small based models.
1 Medium-based Warjack.
2 Large-Based Warjacks or 1 Large-Based Warjack and 1 Huge-Based Model.
2-4 Small Based Solos.

Granted this is my way of running things, some folks might spam infantry and go more 'Jack heavy. However I tend to run pretty middle of the road. So you're looking at ~20 models for a run of the mill list at 35pts. Maybe 30ish at 50. Less if you're going beast/'Jack heavy, more if you're spamming cheap infantry.


All this said, Infinity looks like a great game to me and may be a better fit for someone who wants a minimal model count. The rules look solid but the translation (at least in English) was cumbersome enough to keep me off the game.

Instead of telling you which one to go to, Ill share a little tale:

A friend and I were about to get into 40k. He has some GK units, but no rulebook, codex, templates, etc...and could use some more units to get a full army. I have nothing but a Tau codex. Needless to say we need a lot of stuff, so we went to a LGS (an hour away) to get a better idea of what it was going to cost to get us going.

So we got to the LGS and got to looking...and wow the prices. Just a rulebook, codex, templates & dice was pushing $150. Then theres finishing his army and me building a whole army.

On the other side of the aisle was the Warmachine stuff, so we got looking at that. Well, the price is much better, to say the least. He knew nothing about it, so I got to telling him a bit about the factions, how the game works, the generally good balance of the rules, etc. I dont know a lot about the game, but enough to get the general idea. I also told him about how it was taking customers from GW like crazy.

We decided to go over to the tables and see what people were playing. There was a card tourney going on, but there was also some mini gaming on 2 tables. Turned out that it was 4 games of Warmachine & Hordes. No 40k at all.

All things considered we were sold. We both like the GW minis and fluff, but the crazy prices and terrible rules really turned us off. Everything that is wrong with 40k is done right with Warmachine.

Hes going with Menoth and its Cygnar for me.

The drawback to Warmahordes is that the models can sometimes be rather frustrating to assemble as my own experience shows. Still, there does seem to be more people playing Warmahordes than either Infinity or Malifaux.

My advice, wait for the June/July annual sale (PP does this when GW jacks up their prices) and get your starter then.

 Breotan wrote:
The drawback to Warmahordes is that the models can sometimes be rather frustrating to assemble as my own experience shows.

Oh, yeah, the metal Cyclops. Those were a royal pain in the hindquarters. I ended up converting one of them rather heavily instead of using the stock pose. They're in plastic now, by the way. I don't know about the Savage, but the Raider fits fine...although you want to change its pose from the current groin cannon position to one where he is aiming.

The plastic ones are still a pain. The parts fit perfectly now, but there's a LOT of pieces to the arms, and to get them lined up properly you pretty much need to put them all together at once. The experience is something like trying to make and maintain a smiley face out of marbles in your palm with only the hand holding them.

Luckily, the Cyclopes are pretty much the most annoying sculpt they have (never seen the problem with Nyss myself), and if you can assemble them everything else is smooth sailing.