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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Eternal Plague

There is ALOT of debate about what the Republican Party should or could do to fix itself. And many within and without the party wonder what can fix the problem or if there is really no way to fix the party.

We're talking of course about what the Republican message and identity but could also include any other grievances that come to mind.

Below are a few articles tapped from the internet to read.

The short version is, what can the Republicans do?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/09/opinion/blow-suicide-conservatives.html?_r=0

Spoiler:
There used to be a political truism: Democrats fall in love, while Republicans fall in line.

That’s no longer true. Not in this moment. Democrats have learned to fall in love and fall in line. Republicans are just falling apart.

Last week, the opening salvos were launched in a very public and very nasty civil war between establishment Republicans and Tea Party supporters when it was reported that Karl Rove was backing a new group, the Conservative Victory Project, to counter the Tea Party’s selection of loopy congressional candidates who lose in general elections.

The Tea Party was having none of it. It sees Rove’s group as a brazen attack on the Tea Party movement, which it is. Rove sees winning as a practical matter. The Tea Party counts victory in layers of philosophical purity.

Politico reported this week that an unnamed “senior Republican operative” said that one of the party’s biggest problems was “ ‘suicide conservatives, who would rather lose elections than win seats with moderates.’ ”

Democrats could be the ultimate beneficiaries of this tiff. Of the 33 Senate seats up for election in 2014, 20 are held by Democrats. Seven of those 20 are in states that President Obama lost in the last presidential election. Republicans would have to pick up only a handful of seats to take control of the chamber.

But some in the Tea Party are threatening that if their candidate is defeated in the primaries by a candidate backed by Rove’s group, they might still run the Tea Party candidate in the general election. That would virtually guarantee a Democratic victory.

Sal Russo, a Tea Party strategist, told Politico: “We discourage our people from supporting third-party candidates by saying ‘that’s a big mistake. We shouldn’t do that.’ ” He added: “But if the position [Rove’s allies] take is rule or ruin — well, two can play that game. And if we get pushed, we’re not going to be able to keep the lid on that.”

The skirmish speaks to a broader problem: a party that has lost its way and can’t rally around a unified, coherent vision of what it wants to be when it grows up.

The traditional Republican message doesn’t work. Rhetorically, the G.O.P. is the party of calamity. The sky is always falling. Everything is broken. Freedoms are eroding. Tomorrow is dimmer than today.

In Republicans’ world, we must tighten our belts until we crush our spines. We must take a road to prosperity that runs through the desert of austerity. We must cut to grow. Republicans are the last guardians against bad governance.

But how can they sell this message to a public that has rejected it in the last two presidential elections?

Some say keep the terms but soften the tone.

A raft of Republicans, many of them possible contenders in 2016, have been trying this approach.

Louisiana’s governor, Bobby Jindal, speaking at a Republican National Committee meeting last month, chastised his party for being “the stupid party” that’s “in love with zeros,” even as he insisted, “I am not one of those who believe we should moderate, equivocate, or otherwise abandon our principles.”

Jindal’s plan, like that of many other Republicans, boils down to two words: talk differently.

Other Republicans, like Marco Rubio, seem to want to go further. They understand that the party must behave differently. He is among a group of senators who recently put forward a comprehensive immigration proposal that would offer a pathway to citizenship for the millions of undocumented immigrants in this country.

This is a position Democrats have advocated, and it’s a position that Republicans have to accept if they want Hispanic support — and a chance of winning a presidential election.

The Tea Party crowd did not seem pleased with that plan. Glenn Beck, the self-described “rodeo clown” of the right, said:

“You’ve got John McCain, Lindsey Graham, and now Marco Rubio joining them because Marco Rubio just has to win elections. I’m done. I’m done. Learn the Constitution. Somebody has to keep a remnant of the Constitution alive.”

For Beck’s wing of the party, moderation is surrender, and surrender is death. It seems to want to go further out on a limb that’s getting ever more narrow. For that crowd, being a Tea Party supporter is more a religion than a political philosophy. They believe so deeply and fervently in it that they see no need for either message massage or actual compromise.

While most Democrats and Independents want politicians to compromise, Republicans don’t, according to a January report by the Pew Research Center. The zealots have a chokehold on that party, and they’re sucking the life — and common sense — out of it.

For this brand of Republican, there is victory in self-righteous defeat.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dennis-santiago/are-democrats-reinvigorat_b_2654282.html

Spoiler:
With the Super Bowl over, last week's coast vs. coast game of gun control one-upping saw California Democrats announcing an effort to out do New York's midnight end run Safe Act. Flanked by the state's two urban figureheads, State Senate leadership says it will use its supermajority to ramrod a package that will make even Governor Cuomo and Mayor Bloomberg green with envy.

The stakes of cultural warfare continue to rise and gun owners regardless of party affiliation are being told they must lay down arms and submit to their superiors. The elitist notion from the time of Colfax that "for the interests of the state, the rights of the People may be set aside" remains alive and well in this country.

Social media is of course alive with anger and bluster mostly ignored by mainstream media and it's headline writers. Well maybe Piers Morgan has found a temporary boost in his poor ratings but that won't last. Quietly, those familiar with the economic incentives of "black markets" are beginning to take note. Even more quietly, people rumble about who gets dibs on the top bunks in the camps. You see states aligning on two sides of a divisive issue so potentially explosive we could cleave the Union itself. Now between you and me, driving citizens to blows is not my idea of a good outcome for this country. The search for inclusive solutions seems called for in such extraordinary times.

In all this, an interesting thought occurs this weekend.

The Democrats in their zeal may be creating the very basis that will revitalize the Republican Party in spite of itself. By targeting -- yes I do love the pun -- gun owners across the board as some sort of witch coven are they driving people to join a new American coalition?

The thought experiment goes like this. Posit the every gun owner of every race, religion or any other persuasion switches parties to and then use these swelled numbers to invigorate and change the Republican Party to focus on becoming a broad based defender of the Second Amendment. Further posit that it doesn't matter what one thinks about all the other social issues; that this single issue unites all manner of people who are uncomfortable with trusting everything in government and that this is what created the glue to sustain this new coalition.

The Republican Party has been bumbling about seeking a new wedge and the Democrats may have handed it to them on a silver platter. An influx of people to the party would certainly work itself out in a broader caucus that changes the party once everyone is settled in. Democratic pressure on the gun issue could make that happen much sooner. It'd be interesting. It's a very credible threat. What politician won't perk up if they see a tide of party registrations reaching the registrar showing that suddenly something not quiet is happening on the reservation?

It turns out it's easy enough to do. And like most interesting things these days, it can happen virally. Let's continue the example of the two coasts.

In California, one can change party affiliation online. One can change it anytime one likes. One can change arbitrarily up to 15 days before an election. You can do it here.

That means it's possible to mount grassroots revolts in between election cycles to get the California State Legislature's attention. A social media campaign to ask every gun owner who's a Democrat to a least consider re-registering as a Republican and then send a note to their representatives saying they've done so and if they want them to switch back 15 days before the next election they should heed the message. It's kind of like "Move Your Money" for redistributing political clout and there's nothing the careful gerrymandering of redistricting can do about it.

Party switching for political messaging is not as easy to do in New York. But it's still a citizen's right to do it. In New York you need to do two things. First download a PDF file with the voter registration form. Then -- this is where it gets tricky -- you need to mail that form to the specific county registrar where you live. The list of mailing addresses is in a link in the same website. Bit more trouble but it makes for a nice educational outreach campaign, a somewhat different form on the Occupy Something theme. Maybe one could start by sending a nice letter to all the addresses published by the New York Journal News? The PDF file for recording State of New York voter registration and party affiliation change is here.

Be sure to send your regards to the Governor if you do.

So the next question is can the Republicans handle the influx? It will certainly change the party to have to become much more broadminded about many issues. My guess is yes. If one looks particularly at African-American, Hispanic and Asian cultures -- as opposed to their self-appointed leaders -- one finds a great deal of common core values with the non-fringe portion of the Republican Party. There are already many such persons who are Republicans. Swelling their numbers would certainly be healthy for the party, and arguably healthier for the United States. What's not to like about seeing the voices of diversity prosper within any group? You'd have to be a bit dictatorial to oppose it. And that's not supposed to be a good thing in these United States. Have some apple pie.

Clearly such a development will also alter the Democratic Party. A broad cultural coalition of Republicans held together by the liberty to pursue more forms of happiness of the 1st Amendment and the power to compel government to serve as opposed to rule of the 2nd Amendment is a formidable vision of the going forward American experiment. No doubt Democrats will respond and win back party members by adjusting the platform. Some of the fringe from the left side of aisle will have to give way to the center. I can't say that's a bad thing either.

What actually interests me the most about this weekend thought experiment is coming to terms with seeing that lifetime party affiliation in the Internet age is a myth. As a people, we can actually think of it more as a commodity and yes even a weapon -- thankfully a political one -- to be employed to constrain the excesses of government. We aren't just limited to being sheep. American citizens are eclectic individuals. Each of us is a unique mixture of values that defies the pigeon holing of the traditional party system. How we continue to adapt our political system to serve us is probably the most important thing each citizen can do in these times.


http://www.wnd.com/2013/02/does-the-republican-party-have-a-future/

Spoiler:
The United States, from day one, was a project about principles and ideals.

The superpower that emerged and grew from the handful of colonists that began settling here was not the product of where those colonists happened to land, but the ideals and principles in their head and heart – applied in how they lived their lives.

The Republican Party was founded in 1854 to address one great blot on the nation’s founding legacy – the existence of slavery in a nation founded under the ideal of freedom under God.

Runaway slave and self-educated abolitionist leader Frederick Douglass said, “I am a Republican, a black, dyed in the wool Republican, and I never intend to belong to any other party than the party of freedom and progress.”

Douglass called Abraham Lincoln, America’s first Republican president, “emphatically the black man’s president.”

When some 30 years ago I told the welfare officer not to bother showing up again at my home – when I decided that my own future would be based on the values of Scripture, work and personal responsibility – there was no doubt in my mind what party would become my political home.

The party of “freedom and progress,” the party of Abraham Lincoln and Frederick Douglass.

But, as longshoreman philosopher Eric Hoffer once observed, “Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket.”

It ‘s no mystery why the Republican Party is having a hard time today. No matter how hard you squint and try to discern the values of Lincoln and Frederick Douglass, or any values for that matter, in those now wielding the money and power at the top of the party, they’ve disappeared.

These establishment Republican leaders and operatives are not about ideals and values but business – their own business.

The Wall Street Journal reports that the latest estimate from the Congressional Budget Office is that unemployment will “remain above 7.5 percent through next year. That would make 2014 the sixth consecutive year with a jobless rate that high, the longest stretch of such elevated unemployment in 70 years.”

Yet the Republican presidential candidate in 2012 could not defeat the current occupant of the White House.

In the party that is supposed to be about freedom and personal responsibility, party operatives want to blame everyone else for their own failures.

Worse, they want to pin it on candidates who actually take seriously the traditional values of their party.

Karl Rove would like to weed out candidates like former Missouri Rep. Todd Akin.

Akin, who was defeated by Democratic incumbent Claire McCaskill in the U.S. Senate race in Missouri, was a six-term Republican congressman with a flawless conservative record.

For most of 2012 he was ahead of McCaskill in the polls. Then, in August, he expressed himself poorly in an interview about abortion. Despite his apologies and efforts to clarify himself, his own party abandoned him.

McCaskill ran ads, over and over, showing the Republican’s own candidate Mitt Romney questioning Akin’s qualifications. This race could have been saved. But the party elite wasted not a second dumping Akin because they were not comfortable with his conservative values to begin with.

We’re living in a deeply troubled country today. Americans are looking for answers, not a political class feathering its own nest.

There are tens of millions of conservative American patriots who seek an opposition party to represent their conviction that America will not get back on the path to strength and prosperity without restoration of freedom, limited government, free markets and traditional values.

Today’s big question is whether the Republican Party is going to be that opposition party.

If not, it is not conservative values and convictions that will be abandoned. It will be the Republican Party.


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57567812/is-the-republican-party-headed-toward-civil-war/

Spoiler:
For anyone who sees Mitt Romney's loss in the November presidential election as a harbinger of GOP decline, conservatives have a message - make that two, tellingly conflicting, messages.

One, embodied by the Conservative Victory Project (CVP) - a group backed by Karl Rove's "super PAC" seeking to curb influence from far-right organizations - and spelled out Tuesday by House Majority Leader Eric Cantor, R-Va.: Our olive branch is ripe, Democrats, and with the right legislation, we're willing to compromise.

The other, perhaps best summarized in paperwork filed today by ousted Rep. Joe Walsh, R-Ill., to create a "super PAC" countering Rove's: The tea party that in 2010 ushered into Washington a wave of staunch conservative ideologues isn't going away.

The Rove group's formation was just the most explicit among intensifying calls to inject discipline into a Congress that has seen unprecedented gridlock, particularly on critical economic issues.

Gov. Bobby Jindal, R-La. - a favorite on 2016 speculation lists - at a GOP retreat last month said, "We've got to stop being the stupid party," and called on his fellow Republicans to start talking "like adults." Former Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, R-Ga. and Rep. Marsha Blackburn, R-Tenn., appearing subsequently on CBS News programs, rushed to condone the remarks. "I think we clearly have to change," Gingrich said.

Meanwhile, Cantor's speech at the American Enterprise Institute on Tuesday brought substance to the argument, not to mention a glimpse into what the tone of the newly minted 113th Congress might be. Reviewed largely as a recasting of the Republican Party's image, Cantor's remarks offered a striking departure from the partisan battles that in the past few years have brought the government more than once to the brink of crisis. Rather than emphasizing spending cuts, he spoke of the economy from an American family standpoint; most drastically, he also endorsed immigration principles of the Dream Act.

"There are some who would rather avoid fixing the problem in order to save this as a political issue," Cantor said of immigration reform proposals currently making their way through congressional committees. "I reject this notion and call on the president to help lead us towards a bipartisan solution rather than encourage the common political divisions of the past."

While announcing gun trafficking legislation today, Rep. Elijah Cummings, D-Md., said he was "very encouraged" by the House majority leader's speech. "I think he clearly opened the door for the House to move on meaningful legislation," he said. "Maybe, just maybe, this is the beginning of opening doors."

But despite some who believe the tea party peaked with its influx of dogma-driven freshmen in 2010, the grassroots activist group is sounding off about this new push toward the center. Statements from the various factions of the movement have echoed the sentiment expressed on Nov. 7 by Tea Party Patriots coordinator Jenny Beth Martin, blaming President Obama's reelection on the GOP's nomination of Romney - "a weak moderate candidate, hand-picked by the Beltway elites and country-club establishment wing of the Republican Party."

Even Tea Party Express chairwoman Amy Kremer, who despite early criticism ultimately supported Romney, and who, during the near-government-shutdown ordeal of 2011, advocated "realistic" pragmatism in budget negotiations, in a statement Monday pointed to "the biggest Republican victories in modern American politics" as indicative that CVP won't be successful.

"Reagan's victories in the 1980s, Newt Gingrich and the Republican revolution of 1994, and the Tea Party's historic wins in 2010 were all made possible because the Republican Party, and its candidates, stood strongly and proudly for pro-growth fiscal conservative policies," Kremer said. "The newly launched Conservative Victory Project wants to push the tea party out and replace them with the failed strategies of 2008 and 2012. This Super PAC is choosing power of principle, but will end up alienating conservatives and electoral losses.

"If the establishment's large donors want to see a complete electoral catastrophe, then all they need to do is push tea party conservatives into supporting alternative third candidates," she continued.

FreedomWorks, another powerhouse tea party fundraising group that suffered from its own infighting in December, also put out a statement, touting the "leadership" of the movement's heroes like Sens. Rand Paul, R-Ky., Marco Rubio, R-Fla., Pat Toomey, R-Pa., and Mike Lee, R-Utah, and warned, "the Empire is striking back."

"A clear pattern has emerged, beginning with the GOP leadership's efforts to silence delegates on the floor of the RNC, continuing with House Leadership's purge of fiscally conservative congressmen from their committee positions for voting out of line with the GOP establishment," spokeswoman Jacqueline Bodnar wrote. "Now, an Orwellian-named 'Conservative Victory Project' is created with the sole operating mission of blocking the efforts of fiscally conservative activists across the country.

"All events point to a fundamental clash between the old guard Republican establishment, dictating outdated ideas from the top-down, versus a tech-savvy younger generation of activists driving their agenda from the bottom-up," the statement continued.

CVP spokesman Jonathan Collegio said in an email to CBSNews.com that his group's goal "isn't to divide the party," but to "institutionalize the William F Buckley rule by supporting the most conservative candidate in the primary who can win in the general."

"...Our party has lost a number of races in recent years, both by so-called 'establishment' candidates and tea party candidates, not because of bad messages but bad messengers: undisciplined candidates with little local support and who lacked the fundraising prowess necessary to win campaigns," Collegio continued. "To win more races, we need better candidates, and that's what this group will support."

Collegio said CVP has not yet made a list of specific races they will target because "it's too early," but some reports suggest Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa, who says he is "50-50" on whether to make a bid for retiring Democratic Sen. Tom Harkin's seat, may be the group's most obvious starting point. King has been known to rally with firebrand Rep. Michele Bachmann, R-Minn., who founded the House Tea Party Caucus and almost lost her seat in November after an unsuccessful run for the White House. Bachmann's office declined to comment for this article.

Though early polls show King with solid footing in the Hawkeye State, Steven Law, president of Rove's "super PAC" American Crossroads, told the New York Times the CVP is "concerned about Steve King's Todd Akin problem," referring to King's defense of the former Missouri congressman and Senate candidate's incediary remarks about "legitimate rape." King, too, has been known to offer controversial statements, including his critique of Mr. Obama's middle name "Hussein" as a hindering factor in winning the "War on Terror."

Another target may be tea party Rep. Paul Brown, R-Ga., who is expected to announce today his intention to seek the seat of retiring Sen. Saxby Chambliss, R-Ga. Broun has bagged his share of controversy as well, having had his say in the "birther" movement questioning the president's citizenship, and opining that "all that stuff I was taught about evolution and embryology and Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell."

   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






Gorilla Glue. And lots of duct tape. I know many republicans swear by Duct tape.

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in ca
Zealous Sin-Eater




Montreal

Glenn Beck wrote: I’m done. I’m done. Learn the Constitution. Somebody has to keep a remnant of the Constitution alive.” ]


You south of the border know how to grow good crazy.

[...] for conflict is the great teacher, and pain, the perfect educator.  
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Eternal Plague

 Kovnik Obama wrote:
Glenn Beck wrote: I’m done. I’m done. Learn the Constitution. Somebody has to keep a remnant of the Constitution alive.” ]


You south of the border know how to grow good crazy.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Beck

Glenn Edward Lee Beck was born in Everett, Washington, to William and Mary Beck, who lived in Mountlake Terrace, Washington, at the time of their son's birth.




Sometimes it grows good in the Northwest...along with all that good hemp.

   
Made in ca
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord





How to "fix" the Republican party:

Solution #1:
Step 1: Kick out everyone that's not a "Rockefeller Republican".
Step 2: Stay away from conservative standpoints on social issues.
Step 3: Acknowledge that the vision of 1950s America as seen on Leave It To Beaver and The Andy Griffith Show will never exist again, nor did it ever in the first place.
Step 4: Stop pandering exclusively to people who refuse to accept #3.
Step 5: Profit.
   
Made in us
Hangin' with Gork & Mork








That is still south of Canada it would seem.

Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
 
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

Well, this is just my 2 cents, but they have 2 major problems:

1.) They've convinced themselves that they've been picking bad messengers, but I think in some cases, it's the message. As one example, there are too many people who ran on a platform of smaller government who then strove to pass laws to restrict abortion. I don't think those two things can live in harmony - either you're for smaller government, or you are not. I think the social conservative angle is a dying one - those POV's simply no longer match the American voting demographic. It's often said that "this country is a center-right country", but they can start by realizing that's not really true anymore, IMO. A plurality of Americans want abortion to be legal, and I think they need to accept and (ahem) move on.

2.) They need to divorce themselves from the right-wing media. The right-wing media is using them ill for their own profits. There are a billion articles on this so I don't think I need to link a bunch of them but I think David Frum said it best back in Feb 2010:
I’ve been on a soapbox for months now about the harm that our overheated talk is doing to us. Yes it mobilizes supporters – but by mobilizing them with hysterical accusations and pseudo-information, overheated talk has made it impossible for representatives to represent and elected leaders to lead. The real leaders are on TV and radio, and they have very different imperatives from people in government. Talk radio thrives on confrontation and recrimination. When Rush Limbaugh said that he wanted President Obama to fail, he was intelligently explaining his own interests. What he omitted to say – but what is equally true – is that he also wants Republicans to fail. If Republicans succeed – if they govern successfully in office and negotiate attractive compromises out of office – Rush’s listeners get less angry. And if they are less angry, they listen to the radio less, and hear fewer ads for Sleepnumber beds.


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in us
Most Glorious Grey Seer





Everett, WA

Step 1: Never allow Todd Akin to run for office ever again, not even Dog Catcher.
Step 2: When a reporter asks you any question on any topic at all, you damned well better be hearing Admiral Akbar screaming at you from his flagship.
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit.

 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 azazel the cat wrote:
How to "fix" the Republican party:

Solution #1:
Step 1: Kick out everyone that's not a "Rockefeller Republican".
Step 2: Stay away from conservative standpoints on social issues.
Step 3: Acknowledge that the vision of 1950s America as seen on Leave It To Beaver and The Andy Griffith Show will never exist again, nor did it ever in the first place.
Step 4: Stop pandering exclusively to people who refuse to accept #3.
Step 5: Profit.


Congratulations, you just killed the party.

The republican party is doomed because the "true conservative" message does not win 50% of the votes. They need to appeal to the social conservatives because they're a very consistent high-turnout group. Just look at how close every recent election has been, subtract 10% of the republican vote, and see how many races they still win. If the social conservatives stay home on election day (or, worse, vote for someone else) the republican party becomes an irrelevant minority at the national level. So even though it hurts them badly with everyone else the republican party has to rant loudly about stopping abortion and the homosexual agenda and how Jesus hates all the same people you hate. Anything else means an end to the guaranteed votes and campaign funding that the "cut my taxes so I can be even richer" party leadership depends on.

Of course in the long run it's a doomed strategy since social conservatives are becoming less and less relevant as society moves on and leaves them behind, but what else can you do? If it's a choice between immediate political suicide and long-term political suicide you pick the form of suicide that gives you the most time to loot and pillage the country for your own gain and ensure your comfortable retirement once you're out of office.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

Edited by AgeOfEgos

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/02/10 16:40:58


 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






Edited by AgeOfEgos

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/10 15:55:10


There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

Edited by AgeOfEgos

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/10 15:55:32


 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






Edited by AgeOfEgos

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/10 15:55:55


There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in ca
Preacher of the Emperor




At a Place, Making Dolls Great Again

American politics is so boring... not saying ours is any wealth of interest either but at least we have the Bloc to add hilarity... though the NDP killed them so...

Make Dolls Great Again
Clover/Trump 2016
For the United Shelves of America! 
   
Made in gb
Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God






Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways

How do you solve a problem like the Republican Party?


   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Dundee, Scotland/Dharahn, Saudi Arabia

 Formosa wrote:
But why is it that American conservatives always look like racist bigots or just downright....thick,


 Formosa wrote:
what right thinking person would support such people.


I'm going to go with thick racist bigots...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/10 14:47:01


If the thought of something makes me giggle for longer than 15 seconds, I am to assume that I am not allowed to do it.
item 87, skippys list
DC:70S+++G+++M+++B+++I++Pw40k86/f#-D+++++A++++/cWD86R+++++T(D)DM++ 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





IMO, here's what they need to change their basic platform to:

Fiscal conservitavism (basically, the "balance the budget first" people), but still following social progression through private or public enterprise.

To me, as a conservative, I see the value of mandated health care, but I don't think it's gov'ts job to provide it, so it should be conservatives who fight for a single payer type of system.

I think that fighting for a smaller government is all well and good, but it seems like the things todays tea partiers and conservatives are fighting for, require larger or the same size govt as we have already.
   
Made in gb
Storm Trooper with Maglight





By disbanding.

The Kasrkin were just men. It made their actions all the more astonishing. Six white blurs, they fell upon the cultists, lasguns barking at close range. They wasted no shots. One shot, one kill. - Eisenhorn: Malleus 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut



Beaver Dam, WI

Balance the Budget. The Tea Party and Republicans talk the talk but then they pull off defense from the discussion and then say they refuse any tax hikes. This makes the whole discussion a joke.

1. Defense - we are still saddled with a military designed to fight a two-front global war Good when you have the Soviet Union but a waste of effort when are most likely target is going to be some 3rd world hot-spot. We have a military that has the best of the best. As an example do we really need to have a military that equals the defense budget of the next 10 or 12 nations none of which are our enemies. Do we really need the F22 and its price tag when the F15 is still the world's best air superiority fighter. (And to my knowledge still undefeated.)

2. Entitlements- we need sustainable alternatives. The weakness of the Democratic Party is that sticking your head in the sand and leaving everything as is. A lack of sustainable solutions will jump up and bite them in the behind. It may not be an immediate winner but keep offering solutions and talking about the risks and eventually the "water will rise" and people will notice or begin to suspect it is true.

3. Taxes - If we are going to balance the budget, we need to raise the taxes. Talk about the risks of a rising national debt. Talk about if the bond issues have to raise their rates 1/4 of a percentage point. The raising of taxes for the purpose of restoring a sane, well thought out plan to reduce the deficit will work. What won't work is raising taxes and continuing to treat defense and entitlements as adversaries.

Now I don't expect this to happen in the next 2 or 3 election cycles. The Republica/Tea Party needs to get spanked a few more times before the reality of being a regional powerhouse but national weakling gets through their thick heads.



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DAaddict wrote:
Do we really need the F22 and its price tag when the F15 is still the world's best air superiority fighter. (And to my knowledge still undefeated.)


Yes, for three reasons:

1) Fatigue life. Aircraft don't last forever, and military aircraft are full of limited-life components (for better performance while they last) and are put through a level of abuse way beyond anything in the civilian world. Eventually those F-15s are literally going to fall apart, potentially killing the pilots and/or people on the ground. So the question isn't whether or not to buy new fighters, it's whether to buy new F-22s or to spend almost as much money on new F-15s.

2) New fighters take time to design. The F-22 isn't just designed to compete with our current enemies, it's designed to compete with anything that might appear over the next 10+ years. Which is what you have to plan for, you can't just wait until you actually need a better fighter and then immediately start building them.

3) The F-15 isn't the best anymore. It's undefeated, but only because it's never been used against anyone but third-world countries flying (at best) the previous generation of fighters. In a future war (see #2) against better competition the F-15's record is going to be a lot less impressive, if it can even get the job done at all.

Of course the F-22 is still an example of stupidity in that to "cut costs" we cut production, driving the per-unit cost up because politicians don't understand the concept of sunk costs. So in the end not much money is saved, and what little we did save just gets spent on buying less-capable F-35s because we're no longer building enough F-22s to fill our entire need for new planes.

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Beaver Dam, WI

Good conversation. I know that the F15 is dated but the issue is one between

XXX $ to get a 99 percent probability of safety/success and

XXXXX $ to get a 99.9 probability of success.

I agree that I don't want to lose a single life but to say that having 10 F22 the best in the world available is better than having 1000 F15 available is the question. I don't doubt that the F15 is getting dated but at some point we have to start having the discussion about what risk is liveable.

The hard part is I don't think that there is any legitimate risk of any nation beating the US in a stand up fight. The problem is what cost is acceptable in losses sustained to achieve the result. Zero losses is the desired result but having an effective force that doesn't break the bank has to enter into the equation given that funds are not unlimited.

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Fort Worth, TX

The problem is that many of the messages the Republican party is sending just don't come across well. That's why they're bleeding voters (women, the younger generation, hispanics, etc.). I remember one quote from a Republican after the last election regarding the Hispanic vote, it was something like "Republicans and Hispanics share many of the same values, we just need to educate them better about the Republican party." That just sounds...wrong. Or how about "we're in the Middle East because God wants us to," and yet they're trying to tell Muslims we weren't waging a war on Islam? Those messages don't reconcile.

Oh, and smaller government and less taxes? Then the states will have to pick up the slack in what's been cut from the federal level and state taxes will increase as a result. Status quo achieved, except poorer states will be screwed.

If anything, Republicans need to learn how to COMPROMISE. A government that works together to make actual progress on real issues is a government that makes voters happy. A deadlocked government that can't accomplish squat makes voters unhappy and more liable to vote for the other guy just to try something else. You can thump your chest all you want about how you didn't raise taxes, but if you let the country continue its slide into the Pit of Doom as a result, I sure as hell won't vote for you. But I am smart enough to stomach a tax increase if other meaningful accomplishments were made, and that will get you my vote.

What's interesting to me, is that I see more and more people describing themselves as "fiscally conservative, but socially liberal" (I'm one), but neither party seems to understand how to work that out. The world is marching on, but I think too many politicians just don't get it.

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While the topic is a difficult one to discuss, please do not generalize/stereotype entire populations of Dakka users with insults. Thanks.

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@Tannhauser, honestly mate, BOTH sides need to relearn how to compromise. In the past several years as places like cnn, msnbc, fnc, etc. Have picked up in popularity, congress has become a place where, once elected, they have to campaign for the next several years in order to get re-elected, rather than focusing on the job they were brought in for.

But, as a party, i think that too many republicans have voted in tea party types who had little to no experience with real politics, and things are just gettin out of hand.
   
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Fort Worth, TX

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
@Tannhauser, honestly mate, BOTH sides need to relearn how to compromise.


Oh, I agree with you one hundred percent, it's just that this topic is about fixing the Republican party.
The Democrats have their own set of issues.

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One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me."
- Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks 
   
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Omadon's Realm

They have held up lack of political experience and lack of education as virtues. This might be a bad thing when you actually want someone to be an educated politician to fight for your agenda over the opposing agenda.



 
   
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United States

 Peregrine wrote:

Of course the F-22 is still an example of stupidity in that to "cut costs" we cut production, driving the per-unit cost up because politicians don't understand the concept of sunk costs.


Per-unit cost is irrelevant in this case. What matters is total cost.

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Eternal Plague

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
They have held up lack of political experience and lack of education as virtues. This might be a bad thing when you actually want someone to be an educated politician to fight for your agenda over the opposing agenda.


Political purity (no, not the other kind) is not a bad thing in many ways;i.e. freedom from pressure groups already in place to force you to vote one way or another. It is however a bad thing when you ignore the past and ignore the warning signs of danger and do not err to caution.

The Tea Party/Republican House Representatives elected to office were relatively new but not necessarily in the sense of not having been in the system for long. You don't get elected to a national office without knowing who is behind you and who lend you the power and votes to catapult you into a decision making body affect the U.S. and by extension the world. I would argue that it's a smoke and mirrors effort to try and convince people they are the homespun heroes with middle Suburbia values trying to champion the Average Person's way of life. I would agree that maybe they have humble backgrounds, but not the political naivety that would make them dangerous to count on for decision making due to lack of experience. Also, to be political naive at this stage of the game would be impossible for most of those candidates now turned into journeymen lawmakers.

Of course, holding the moral high ground while your inches from the cliff does not work. Fighting for a hopeless cause is noble and maybe their hearts are in the right place, but the bottom line is is that we need to reduce our debt such that we can catch up to it and make it manageable. Even the Democrats see that despite trying to pass initiatives to help the poor and boost domestic policies, there is simply not enough money to go around.

Example: California. We chided the state for its bloated debt and taxes, but they have dug deep and are seemingly trying to fix their mess with a balance of taxes and spending reductions. It's a hard choice to swallow, but they are trying to get it done.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/10 17:31:07


   
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Richmond, VA

Start by purging fox news, continue with reliving the tea party from duty, end with the cancellation of making comments regarding god, the bible and start re-educating the parties demographic into a more intelligent one.

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 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Gorilla Glue. And lots of duct tape. I know many republicans swear by Duct tape.


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 juraigamer wrote:
Start by purging fox news, continue with reliving the tea party from duty, end with the cancellation of making comments regarding god, the bible and start re-educating the parties demographic into a more intelligent one.


Yes its important to get rid of the First Amendment. After all, with ABC, CBS, NBC, NPR, CNN, MSNBC, and the New York Times, the liberals are just outclassed by one cable news network...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/11 03:40:42


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