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Rush was much more niche then than Fox News is now.

 kronk wrote:
Before Fox News, old white conservatives people were listening to the Rush Limbaugh radio show.

Same thing, just more talking heads.

Also, MSNBC sucks.

Bah... can't stand Rush...

What was that group you've coined? Republicans Against Rush (RAR)?

 kronk wrote:
Before Fox News, old white conservatives people were listening to the Rush Limbaugh radio show.

Same thing, just more talking heads.

Also, MSNBC sucks.

Man it does. I finally was able to watch some of it this last week. It was as out there as Fox. Literally everything was the Republicans fault. Plus all Republicans are stupid, except when they are scheming. Then they are smart.

Am I the only one to notice their underlying signature color is blue, and Fox's is red? Kind of like blue states and red states.

 Frazzled wrote:

 kronk wrote:
Before Fox News, old white conservatives people were listening to the Rush Limbaugh radio show.

Same thing, just more talking heads.

Also, MSNBC sucks.

Man it does. I finally was able to watch some of it this last week. It was as out there as Fox. Literally everything was the Republicans fault. Plus all Republicans are stupid, except when they are scheming. Then they are smart.

Am I the only one to notice their underlying signature color is blue, and Fox's is red? Kind of like blue states and red states.

Well... to be fair, MSNBC is changing... they're copying the Fox Business Model...

S.E. Cupp is regularly on with Toure... and that's an interesting dynamic (plus, she's HOT!).

The question remains, why is Fox News seemingly more important to Republicans than MSNBC is to Democrats? I think we can find out a lot that is wrong with the GOP -- and right with the Democrats -- by answering this.

 Manchu wrote:
The question remains, why is Fox News seemingly more important to Republicans than MSNBC is to Democrats? I think we can find out a lot that is wrong with the GOP -- and right with the Democrats -- by answering this.

No idea. I'm Republican, and I don't watch Fox news.

 Manchu wrote:
The question remains, why is Fox News seemingly more important to Republicans than MSNBC is to Democrats? I think we can find out a lot that is wrong with the GOP -- and right with the Democrats -- by answering this.

Hmmm... I don't know really as I don't watch 'em all that much (would rather watch sports.)

But, I think it goes beyond Fox... it's more of the institution of the party that's the problem... particularly how entrenched the "establishments" are in the game (same goes for both party really).

I really disagree. The "establishment" Republicans are clearly not the problem. It is the grass roots firebrands who are driving the GOP far far far right and disgusting mainstream voters. Fox News, whether you watch it on TV or read the website, is very obviously in step with the latter rather than the former.

 Manchu wrote:
I really disagree. The "establishment" Republicans are clearly not the problem. It is the grass roots firebrands who are driving the GOP far far far right and disgusting mainstream voters. Fox News, whether you watch it on TV or read the website, is very obviously in step with the latter rather than the former.

Good example would be the establishment republicans realizing it was Romneys time and that he had a good shot, and FoxNews' quest for anybody but him.

I think the reason FoxNews is so vital to the right is that they are the only right-wing news. The majority if other outlets lean left to varying degrees. But nobody directly competes with FoxNews for their target audience. If one of the cable networks would go full moderate, then maybe The influence of FoxNews would lessen.

 d-usa wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
I really disagree. The "establishment" Republicans are clearly not the problem. It is the grass roots firebrands who are driving the GOP far far far right and disgusting mainstream voters. Fox News, whether you watch it on TV or read the website, is very obviously in step with the latter rather than the former.

Good example would be the establishment republicans realizing it was Romneys time and that he had a good shot, and FoxNews' quest for anybody but him.

I think the reason FoxNews is so vital to the right is that they are the only right-wing news. The majority if other outlets lean left to varying degrees. But nobody directly competes with FoxNews for their target audience. If one of the cable networks would go full moderate, then maybe The influence of FoxNews would lessen.

Yep. Visualize a right of center CNN. Yes!

I just wanna be able to watch the news without feeling dirty...

I'd put up a link to this Russian news program, but I like being able to post here...

 d-usa wrote:
I just wanna be able to watch the news without feeling dirty...

What? You don't like watching "The Naked News"???

That THAT is a solid business plan!

 kronk wrote:
I'd put up a link to this Russian news program, but I like being able to post here...

Those just make me feel a different kind of dirty.

Although judging by the weather girl it will be very cold.

 Manchu wrote:
I really disagree. The "establishment" Republicans are clearly not the problem. It is the grass roots firebrands who are driving the GOP far far far right and disgusting mainstream voters. Fox News, whether you watch it on TV or read the website, is very obviously in step with the latter rather than the former.

Well... okay.

Lemme do some watching then...

During the Primary, Fox was anti-Romney... but, once he was the candidate, Fox supported him just fine.

*shrugs*

 d-usa wrote:
Good example would be the establishment republicans realizing it was Romneys time and that he had a good shot, and FoxNews' quest for anybody but him.

Yep. Romney as himself would have done a lot better than Tea Romney.

 d-usa wrote:
If one of the cable networks would go full moderate, then maybe The influence of FoxNews would lessen.

 Frazzled wrote:
Yep. Visualize a right of center CNN. Yes!

I think Frazzled is closer to correct on this one. "Full moderate," which means neutral (?), is probably not possible. What establishment Republicans (Rockefeller Republicans or, as Fox News might say, RINOs) are hungry for is a "respectable right." I think many of them are finding it in NYT and PBS/NPR, traditionally conceived of as leftist sources. But in this era, they have a better reputation for moderation. Frontline's coverage of the mortgage crisis, for example, has been unfaltering pro-Wall Street ... just like Tim Geithner. Democrat blue is a lot more like Tory blue these days.

 whembly wrote:
During the Primary, Fox was anti-Romney... but, once he was the candidate, Fox supported him just fine.

Fox News, among others, was trying to drive Romney farther to the right -- and they succeeded.

I think one problem is how people are talking about just Fox, or just MSNBC, or just CNN. If you're getting your news from one source, through one viewpoint,THAT'S the problem. And too many voters do it that way. They listen/watch one particular news source and then they trust that source to guide their opinions.

 Manchu wrote:
The question remains, why is Fox News seemingly more important to Republicans than MSNBC is to Democrats? I think we can find out a lot that is wrong with the GOP -- and right with the Democrats -- by answering this.

I think your point is a bit off. MSNBC doesn't have the pull with democrats, because the channel is just freaking crazy. Al Sharpton is a part of their primetime line up. They've been caught how many times in the last year doctoring video footage? Chris Matthews wets himself when Obama gets on TV (ok, that was a bit of embellishment on my part), but in general, the channel is just horrible. I know ardent Dems who wouldn't never dream of voting republican, but refuse to watch that channel.

I'd much rather ask, how bad of a reflection is it on America that they are second in the primetime news channel ratings, then your question.

Edit: And yes, i realize this takes it a bit off topic, but I felt that a differant viewpoint of that was important to inject here.

 djones520 wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
The question remains, why is Fox News seemingly more important to Republicans than MSNBC is to Democrats? I think we can find out a lot that is wrong with the GOP -- and right with the Democrats -- by answering this.

I think your point is a bit off. MSNBC doesn't have the pull with democrats, because the channel is just freaking crazy. Al Sharpton is a part of their primetime line up. They've been caught how many times in the last year doctoring video footage? Chris Matthews wets himself when Obama gets on TV (ok, that was a bit of embellishment on my part), but in general, the channel is just horrible. I know ardent Dems who wouldn't never dream of voting republican, but refuse to watch that channel.

I'd much rather ask, how bad of a reflection is it on America that they are second in the primetime news channel ratings, then your question.

FoxNews has the pull with extreme Republicans, because the channel is just freaking crazy. Sara Palin was a part of their primetime line up. They've been caught how many times in the last year doctoring video footage? Hannity has a heart attack when Obama gets on TV (ok, that was a bit of embellishment on my part), but in general, the channel is just horrible. I know ardent Reps who wouldn't never dream of voting Democrat, but refuse to watch that channel.

I'd much rather ask, how bad of a reflection is it on America that they are first in the primetime news channel ratings, then your question.

-----------------------------------

Fixed.

Althouth it is pretty easy to figure out why FoxNews is first. MSNBC has done nothing except copy FoxNews business model and tactics, except they are cheering for the other side.

 d-usa wrote:

 djones520 wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
The question remains, why is Fox News seemingly more important to Republicans than MSNBC is to Democrats? I think we can find out a lot that is wrong with the GOP -- and right with the Democrats -- by answering this.

I think your point is a bit off. MSNBC doesn't have the pull with democrats, because the channel is just freaking crazy. Al Sharpton is a part of their primetime line up. They've been caught how many times in the last year doctoring video footage? Chris Matthews wets himself when Obama gets on TV (ok, that was a bit of embellishment on my part), but in general, the channel is just horrible. I know ardent Dems who wouldn't never dream of voting republican, but refuse to watch that channel.

I'd much rather ask, how bad of a reflection is it on America that they are second in the primetime news channel ratings, then your question.

FoxNews has the pull with extreme Republicans, because the channel is just freaking crazy. Sara Palin was a part of their primetime line up. They've been caught how many times in the last year doctoring video footage? Hannity has a heart attack when Obama gets on TV (ok, that was a bit of embellishment on my part), but in general, the channel is just horrible. I know ardent Reps who wouldn't never dream of voting Democrat, but refuse to watch that channel.

I'd much rather ask, how bad of a reflection is it on America that they are first in the primetime news channel ratings, then your question.

-----------------------------------

Fixed.

Althouth it is pretty easy to figure out why FoxNews is first. MSNBC has done nothing except copy FoxNews business model and tactics, except they are cheering for the other side.

Nice attempt, but it didn't translate well. Palin was merely a contributer, much like Alan Colmes, or Dick Morris. Al Sharpton has his own show. Furthermore, she didn't build her career on race baiting and exploitation like Sharpton did. While Fox has certainly been caught a couple of times with messing with footage, it's hardly to the scale that MSNBC has, nor has anything they've done been criminal, like what MSNBC did to George Zimmerman, and their now being sued for. You are right on Hannity though, the man is just about as rabid as Matthews is.

 djones520 wrote:

 d-usa wrote:

 djones520 wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
The question remains, why is Fox News seemingly more important to Republicans than MSNBC is to Democrats? I think we can find out a lot that is wrong with the GOP -- and right with the Democrats -- by answering this.

I think your point is a bit off. MSNBC doesn't have the pull with democrats, because the channel is just freaking crazy. Al Sharpton is a part of their primetime line up. They've been caught how many times in the last year doctoring video footage? Chris Matthews wets himself when Obama gets on TV (ok, that was a bit of embellishment on my part), but in general, the channel is just horrible. I know ardent Dems who wouldn't never dream of voting republican, but refuse to watch that channel.

I'd much rather ask, how bad of a reflection is it on America that they are second in the primetime news channel ratings, then your question.

FoxNews has the pull with extreme Republicans, because the channel is just freaking crazy. Sara Palin was a part of their primetime line up. They've been caught how many times in the last year doctoring video footage? Hannity has a heart attack when Obama gets on TV (ok, that was a bit of embellishment on my part), but in general, the channel is just horrible. I know ardent Reps who wouldn't never dream of voting Democrat, but refuse to watch that channel.

I'd much rather ask, how bad of a reflection is it on America that they are first in the primetime news channel ratings, then your question.

-----------------------------------

Fixed.

Althouth it is pretty easy to figure out why FoxNews is first. MSNBC has done nothing except copy FoxNews business model and tactics, except they are cheering for the other side.

Nice attempt, but it didn't translate well. Palin was merely a contributer, much like Alan Colmes, or Dick Morris. Al Sharpton has his own show. Furthermore, she didn't build her career on race baiting and exploitation like Sharpton did. While Fox has certainly been caught a couple of times with messing with footage, it's hardly to the scale that MSNBC has, nor has anything they've done been criminal, like what MSNBC did to George Zimmerman, and their now being sued for. You are right on Hannity though, the man is just about as rabid as Matthews is.

You forgot that Huckabee has his own show too... evidently, he's popular in the south. o.O

Manchu wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Good example would be the establishment republicans realizing it was Romneys time and that he had a good shot, and FoxNews' quest for anybody but him.

Yep. Romney as himself would have done a lot better than Tea Romney.

Romney-as-Himself might have been an unstoppable juggernaut harkening back to the outcome of the 1980 election.

djones520 wrote:Nice attempt, but it didn't translate well. Palin was merely a contributer, much like Alan Colmes, or Dick Morris. Al Sharpton has his own show. Furthermore, she didn't build her career on race baiting and exploitation like Sharpton did. While Fox has certainly been caught a couple of times with messing with footage, it's hardly to the scale that MSNBC has, nor has anything they've done been criminal, like what MSNBC did to George Zimmerman, and their now being sued for. You are right on Hannity though, the man is just about as rabid as Matthews is.

Glenn Beck, however, definitely did have his own show. And he did build a career on race baiting and exploitation. I've got absolutely no love for Sharpton; he's just incredibly selfish and exploitative. Glenn Beck, on the other hand, is legitimately crazy.

And as to the 'messing with footage' bit, I see you've forgotten the role FoxNews played in the Shirley Sherrod mess.

I'm not going to defend MSNBC because I think they suck. But I'm quite certain that FoxNews is equally terrible. Please do not try to play it like FoxNews isn't; as the awful pattern of behaviour MSNBC has displayed was directly copied from the FoxNews strategy

EDIT: Thanks, Whembly. I had completely forgotten about Huckabee.

 azazel the cat wrote:

Manchu wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Good example would be the establishment republicans realizing it was Romneys time and that he had a good shot, and FoxNews' quest for anybody but him.

Yep. Romney as himself would have done a lot better than Tea Romney.

Romney-as-Himself might have been an unstoppable juggernaut harkening back to the outcome of the 1980 election.

djones520 wrote:Nice attempt, but it didn't translate well. Palin was merely a contributer, much like Alan Colmes, or Dick Morris. Al Sharpton has his own show. Furthermore, she didn't build her career on race baiting and exploitation like Sharpton did. While Fox has certainly been caught a couple of times with messing with footage, it's hardly to the scale that MSNBC has, nor has anything they've done been criminal, like what MSNBC did to George Zimmerman, and their now being sued for. You are right on Hannity though, the man is just about as rabid as Matthews is.

Glenn Beck, however, definitely did have his own show. And he did build a career on race baiting and exploitation. I've got absolutely no love for Sharpton; he's just incredibly selfish and exploitative. Glenn Beck, on the other hand, is legitimately crazy.

And as to the 'messing with footage' bit, I see you've forgotten the role FoxNews played in the Shirley Sherrod mess.

I'm not going to defend MSNBC because I think they suck. But I'm quite certain that FoxNews is equally terrible. Please do not try to play it like FoxNews isn't; as the awful pattern of behaviour MSNBC has displayed was directly copied from the FoxNews strategy

EDIT: Thanks, Whembly. I had completely forgotten about Huckabee.

No problemo!

So... the question I have... is there any other major news organizations worth a damn now?

I do like "The Naked News"


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So... my hockey time lost tonight... had a rough go with the kidz... so, I start partaking therapuetic Alchoholic treatments.

And I'm watching Bill O'Reilly on FNC...

It's "meh" so far. Me being ALMOST drunk might be helping that.

 d-usa wrote:
I think the reason FoxNews is so vital to the right is that they are the only right-wing news. The majority if other outlets lean left to varying degrees. But nobody directly competes with FoxNews for their target audience. If one of the cable networks would go full moderate, then maybe The influence of FoxNews would lessen.

Cable news as a whole is just not relevant. The viewing numbers are pitiful.

FOX news is politically relevant because it controls so much of the political dialogue within the Republican party iself. In a lot of ways it's a faction of the GOP, competing with other factions for dominance and the furtherance of its own ambitions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
I think one problem is how people are talking about just Fox, or just MSNBC, or just CNN. If you're getting your news from one source, through one viewpoint,THAT'S the problem. And too many voters do it that way. They listen/watch one particular news source and then they trust that source to guide their opinions.

I agree with getting your information from a diverse range of sources, but some sources are just junk and offer nothing.

FOX the other day was saying the German policy for solar panels wouldn't work because Germany has more sun than the US. Seriously - they thought Germany was a sunnier place than the US. I mean, there's heaps of good arguments against the Germany solar panel policies, but here you've got people who are so indifferent to reality they just made up something idiotic on the spot and reported it to the viewers.

And I'd put MSNBC on the list of sources that just can't be relied on for information at all, these days. I mean, I've never heard anything as stupid as the less sun than Germany thing, but I've seen enough dubious stuff that to you would have to end up fact checking everything stated, at which point why bother.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 d-usa wrote:
Althouth it is pretty easy to figure out why FoxNews is first. MSNBC has done nothing except copy FoxNews business model and tactics, except they are cheering for the other side.

FOX is better at it, and better positioned because there really isn't much of a market for liberal outrage. There's plenty of liberals but they don't work the same as conservatives. That's why talkback radio is full of conservatives telling their little stories and there's a big audience out there ready to be outraged by the daily whatever. Try the same thing, like with whatever that radio station with Jeanine Garafalo was, and it's a massive money loser.

Conservatives love the daily outrage, that's their drug, that's what they're in it for. So they're happy to sit there listening to conservative radio, or watching FOX news, getting their faily fix of shocking, horrible outrages that just make outraged.

Liberals work differently, they're still hooked on a drug, but their drug is self-righteousness, and they don't get that from listening to someone else talk. They have to be the guy talking, proving they're more aware of the plight of the whoever than the other guy is. That's why there's approximately 400 trillion liberal political blogs.

 whembly wrote:


So... the question I have... is there any other major news organizations worth a damn now?

I do like "The Naked News"

The CBC is pretty darn good. Though for the Americans I guess the BBC would still be better though it too has had it's share of scandals. Though they aren't about how bad their news coverage is awesomely enough.

But CBC is the best, plus there is Hockey on it too!

 sebster wrote:


Conservatives love the daily outrage, that's their drug, that's what they're in it for. So they're happy to sit there listening to conservative radio, or watching FOX news, getting their faily fix of shocking, horrible outrages that just make outraged.

In effect, yes...this is what should be the Conservative norm, just like Liberals should be shaking their heads and wondering why others are stuck in their ways.

Now to get the Conservatives focused on things that matter rather than the frivolous stuff. Also, be more progressive Teddy-ish!

Maybe they should appeal to other voters than white conservatives like the Latinos, blacks and other minorities for once.

 rockerbikie wrote:
Maybe they should appeal to other voters than white conservatives like the Latinos, blacks and other minorities for once.

In California, they are the minority now.

 Frazzled wrote:

 rockerbikie wrote:
Maybe they should appeal to other voters than white conservatives like the Latinos, blacks and other minorities for once.

In California, they are the minority now.

If you have not noticed I was concerning a lot of America other than California, white people still clock in as the biggest voting population.

 rockerbikie wrote:
Maybe they should appeal to other voters than white conservatives like the Latinos, blacks and other minorities for once.

There are conservative elements of Latino and black society, but there is a certain alienation that has occurred due to elements within the Republican party that keep them from reaching out.

As a party of no, anti-immigration, anti-abortion, anti-gay rights, anti-social safety nets, that portrait is hard to get behind regardless of who you are.