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Da Butcha wrote:


You say the WD rules are in many cases still valid.

How do you know that? The new FAQ says only that the rules for (for example) the Ork Bomma are now found in Death from the Skies.

Well I did say maybe. So you are saying people are upset about the book because the rules might change, but so far all we know is one flyer for sure is referenced in the new book via the FAQ. And 8 pages of GW bashing about that seems reasonable?

Da Butcha wrote:

GW used to provide updated rules for the unit in the FAQ, allowing those of us who had already paid for the rules for the unit to actually use the unit in a GW game.

Now, despite the fact that I've paid GW for the model, and for the rules, I have to buy the rules again, because GW has decided not to include rules updates in their rules updates.

You paid for a White Dwarf which contained rules for a model released outside of the codex. Now they have released newer rules(possibly) for that model. Would you have preferred they not release the new Ork flyer models until 2014 or whenever they release the next Ork codex?

 Starfarer wrote:

Da Butcha wrote:

GW used to provide updated rules for the unit in the FAQ, allowing those of us who had already paid for the rules for the unit to actually use the unit in a GW game.

Now, despite the fact that I've paid GW for the model, and for the rules, I have to buy the rules again, because GW has decided not to include rules updates in their rules updates.

You paid for a White Dwarf which contained rules for a model released outside of the codex. Now they have released newer rules(possibly) for that model. Would you have preferred they not release the new Ork flyer models until 2014 or whenever they release the next Ork codex?

Why are those the only 2 options? There was a time, not so very long ago, when rule updates that did not rise to the level of a new expansion or codex were, gasp, released for free on their website. Not even in the FAQ, as DB mentions, they used to flat out give away rules that weren't in a position to be sold. There was an entire Blood Angels Codex released in this fashion, Kroot mercenary lists, etc., etc....

 Starfarer wrote:

Da Butcha wrote:


You say the WD rules are in many cases still valid.

How do you know that? The new FAQ says only that the rules for (for example) the Ork Bomma are now found in Death from the Skies.

Well I did say maybe. So you are saying people are upset about the book because the rules might change, but so far all we know is one flyer for sure is referenced in the new book. And 8 pages of GW bashing about that seems reasonable?

You do realize that's not even vaguely the main complaint retailers have here, right?

 blackdiamond wrote:
...
It's not a happy situation. There is no "up side" for retailers. There is little we can do in the face of Games Workshop shenanigans. Our customer bases have eroded, sales fallen as all but the hardcore players have jumped ship in the wake of insanely high prices, anemic releases, and a black out marketing strategy. At a certain point we have to just say NO. Does it make sense that we draw the line in the sand here? I think so. They've made a concerted effort to release a major rules update (or it's completely insignificant, you tell me) by bypassing retailers. I thought it was an empty gesture this morning, but clearly people feel this is a critical rules release, which makes the stand that much more important.

As for what will the dangerous retailer do next, what kind of power do you think we have? We can carry a game or not carry a game. We can run events or not run events. That's about it. We do this through the grace of our customers, who we acknowledge are doing us a favor by spending their hard earned money with us. Again, there is no up side to this, but Games Workshop continues to push us into a corner.

Honestly, at my store this issue effects about 12 people. However, the perception of hostile action is so strong that people hours away declare their intent to boycott. So I ask, is there anything that this company will do to make you lose your loyalty? Must you condemn others for taking a stand, even as you bend over, and close your eyes?

Gary L. Ray
Black Diamond Games, Ltd.
1950 Market Street, Suite E
Concord, CA 94520

925-681-0600
www.blackdiamondgames.com
blackdiamondgames.blogspot.com

 Starfarer wrote:

You paid for a White Dwarf which contained rules for a model released outside of the codex. Now they have released newer rules(possibly) for that model. Would you have preferred they not release the new Ork flyer models until 2014 or whenever they release the next Ork codex?

The best way to handle this would have been to include the rules for the flyers in the regular FAQ updates. If they wanted to include them in a white dwarf then fine. However, making people pay the price of a codex in order to get the rules for a single model in their army is more than OTT.

I just want to throw out their. If the larger indy tournaments that don't allow forgeworld modles were to come out and say they are not going to use this supplement and that they consider it the same as a forgeworld supplement, it would set a trend for the indy tournaments to shun it. It would help cut into the sales of the book, and make this "Boycott" by the community much more stronger.

Let's face it. If your a tourny player, your going to NEED this book if the tournament is allowing it. Heck you are probly considering ordering it now so you can start reading it. But if the major tournaments start coming out now and saying they will not allow it. This will cut into the profits and show GW we will not put up with a supplement like this being web only.

For example, if Adepticon comes out now and says they will only allowed it's use in the gladiator tournament, and not the main 40k ones.

Just a thought.

Every now and then, I pop back into Dakka to read about the latest GW shenanigans. And they have never disappointed.

To be honest, I'm still surprised that anyone is still spending money on GW miniatures and rules. And it's not even about the price increases or the power creep or anything like that.

It's the fact that GW continually seems to disregard any effort to win/maintain customer goodwill.

At least other companies pretend to like their customers.

And the other companies are certainly smart enough to not actively piss off their retailers.

 Starfarer wrote:
You paid for a White Dwarf which contained rules for a model released outside of the codex. Now they have released newer rules(possibly) for that model. Would you have preferred they not release the new Ork flyer models until 2014 or whenever they release the next Ork codex?

As a consumer that paid for those items, it seems just that hes entitled to play with those rules. The fact GW is pushing a new book with the methods its currently using is appalling.

The fact your here either as the white knight (which I hope your not) or as devil's advocate leaves only my disdain for you. This sir is a problem for the 40k gaming community at large and you should see this problem for what it is.

A double slap; both to the regular FLGS not being able to stock this *required* addendum, and to the consumer in that their WD purchase was just invalidated by this books requirement to play with those models affected.

 Lockark wrote:
I just want to throw out their. If the larger indy tournaments that don't allow forgeworld modles were to come out and say they are not going to use this supplement and that they consider it the same as a forgeworld supplement, it would set a trend for the indy tournaments to shun it. It would help cut into the sales of the book, and make this "Boycott" by the community much more stronger.

That will never happen. You can pretty much bet that not all of the local players to the few stores doing this will support their decision. For major tournaments to do it would be suicide. The rules updates primarily impact SM, BT and Orks as all of the other armies had their flyers handled via proper FAQ changes. Given the number of SM players at any given tournament, to not allow the stormtalon or storm raven would completely piss off too many people.

Starfarer wrote:So they published official rules for models that previously had a WD release. I suppose it would be better for GW to go back to not doing random releases for models in between codex releases? People bitched about that too.

'Not releasing anything' and 'releasing rules in a direct-only book' are not the only two options...

Then GW releases new things for nearly all armies in between codex releases, and released enough of them to warrant a book for the models and people bitch about that too.

Sorry, you're saying that 2 models were enough to warrant a book...?

Starfarer wrote:The WD rules are in many cases still valid. There were FAQ updates, and some of those FAQs(Orks) simply referred to Death From the Skies. So to find the rules for Ork flyers you have to buy the book, maybe. So people who already have the rules, mostly, don't need this book. Those complaining, either want the rules for their army's flyer(s) for free, and don't want to buy a full book, essentially. If I am wrong here, please explain it better, but that's what the complaints I've read seem to indicate, you know, aside from the people who come here to complain about anything GW releases.

Yes, you're wrong here. I want the rules for the Ork flyers, which were originally released in white dwarf (which retails here in Oz for somewhere around $11). A free download of those rules, as GW used to do, would have been fantastic, but I would have quite happily paid up to the cost of the white dwarf mag for a PDF download version. Instead, GW have given me the option to buy a book for $48 plus shipping, to add one new model with a few different weapon options to my codex.

clively wrote:
Given the number of SM players at any given tournament, to not allow the stormtalon or storm raven would completely piss off too many people.

Given the number of SM players at any given tournament, to not allow the Storm Eagle or Caestus assault ram would completely piss off too many people.

But yet TOs do exactly that, and somehow their tournaments keep going.

 Peregrine wrote:

clively wrote:
Given the number of SM players at any given tournament, to not allow the stormtalon or storm raven would completely piss off too many people.

Given the number of SM players at any given tournament, to not allow the Storm Eagle or Caestus assault ram would completely piss off too many people.

But yet TOs do exactly that, and somehow their tournaments keep going.

I have never seen a storm eagle or CAESTUS ASSAULT RAM in person. I have, however, seen plenty of storm talons. Comparing FW to losing access to standard units is a bit misguided.

clively wrote:
I have never seen a storm eagle or CAESTUS ASSAULT RAM in person. I have, however, seen plenty of storm talons. Comparing FW to losing access to standard units is a bit misguided.

But up until now they haven't been standard units (other than for the armies they were initially released for). In fact, I'd bet that right now there are a lot more C:SM Storm Eagles than C:SM Stormravens, and the FW players are excluded without hesitation. Banning the new book right now and never allowing it would impact a lot fewer people than FW bans, so if TOs can get away with banning FW they can get away with banning GW's latest milking of the cash cow.

 Peregrine wrote:

clively wrote:
Given the number of SM players at any given tournament, to not allow the stormtalon or storm raven would completely piss off too many people.

Given the number of SM players at any given tournament, to not allow the Storm Eagle or Caestus assault ram would completely piss off too many people.

But yet TOs do exactly that, and somehow their tournaments keep going.

Mostly because the flyer book is an official GW release, further linked in the official FAQs, whereas Forgeworld ain't (fortunately).

 Sigvatr wrote:
Mostly because the flyer book is an official GW release, further linked in the official FAQs, whereas Forgeworld ain't (fortunately).

FW are official GW releases, as stated by GW.

Anyway, it's not about officialness, since TOs are happy to house rule stuff all the time, it's about who is excluded. Banning FW excludes a lot of people but somehow tournaments still happen, so I fail to see how a similar exclusion of people who bought C:SM Stormravens is going to kill tournaments. Attendance might drop a bit, but it's not like TOs are concerned with maximizing attendance at all costs. History clearly shows that TOs are willing to sacrifice it in the interest of making their ideal version of 40k, so why should this book be any different?

And, TBH, there's even more justification for banning DftS than for banning FW stuff. At least with FW everyone knows it's a niche market thing and your FLGS doesn't expect to make any money off it. On the other hand, this is the kind of book that used to be available to FLGS but now it's a giant "**** YOU" to every independent retailer. So I can entirely understand the desire of independent store owners to return the "**** YOU" and ban a book that is bad for their business.

My local store has got it right, they ban all GW stuff.

Not because of death from the skies but because GW is a bunch of d-bags. Years ago we had an awesome shop called Brain Snacks which was the largest GW seller in the Midwest. They moved tons of it, so much so that GW decided to send in staff to do all sorts of promotions, they sweet talked all the gamers and ran tournies and gave away product, then promptly opened up their Batle Bunker and Regional HQ less than 5 minutes away.

The redshirts of course promoted the hell out of their move so they could steal the player base by suddenly yanking all of the event support and then limiting the store ability to place orders. GW claimed that they don't allow independants to purchase direct when there's an established GW store within a reasonable radius. Nevermind the fact our store had already been established in the area for 15 years prior to GW brand new bunker.

(they also run Adepticon in the same town, so there's was a massive 40k player base but it's dying because the bunker does NOTHING to support the players)

With their acess to the GW line instantly disconnected it was a major cause in the store folding. 40k was a huge part of their sales base. Once Brain Snacks was gone suddenly GW stopped all their special events and in-store discounts (usually 30% off). They didn't give a damn about building or maintaining a community they just wanted to steal the exsisting one and once there wasn't another option for the players to resort to they went back to ignoring their customer base as usual.

Seven years later a bunch of the former employees of Brain Snacks opened a new store under the name Fair Game, which carries everything but GW. The crowd there hasn't forgotten the dick move GW pulled and honestly they aren't missed. You can go by there most nights and find it packed with people playing ccgs, boardgames, warmachine, hordes, x wing etc. Yet if you go across town to the bunker you see the GW staff sitting around painting store amies while there's maybe 4-5 people in the game room.

They have a permanant ban on everything GW, books, models, paints, brushes. If it's GW it doesn't have a place in that store, and deservedly so.

They may produce great models but GW's business strategies are completely toxic to the gaming community.




Also I know Pat from back when I played the L5R ccg, I've made plenty of trips to his store. He's a great guy and runs an awesome shop so he knows what he's doing and what works for his store. He actually has his hand on the pulse of the local community, unlike GW. Pat if you read this you get a huge thumbs up from me. (Togashi Akagi)


.

Hells yes! Central WI finally makes it on the map! Go Green Bay-Appleton hobby shops!

This whole flier thing is all about $. period. Just look at the price of every frikin flier. I have also always tried to support my local hobby shops (Johnny Cee's Cards, Rules of Engagement, Jadeco -RIP) even if it cost a small amount more... so I am not a fan of all this online only crap.

I for one have always supported GW, love 40k, and have always tried to hold onto the motto "40k is a lifestyle, not a game". In my early years I made foot slogging armies because I love marines, terminators, and other minis, and hated spending $45 for a land raider that I could have spent on two troop boxes. I have since added a few vehicles in the past 15 years but choke everytime I see a land raider, storm raven, or other flier nearing $100.

I purchased my charcharodon stormraven off ebay MIP for under $50 last year... and I don't even want to know how much I paid for that little DA flier I purchased when I got the new DA bundle of everything (yeah I didn't even look). With a house and little ones possibly on the horizon, I think the warseer angry crowds are correct - my middle class self has almost finally been priced out of the hobby. I haven't even been able to find someone to play a game with after 6th edition came out... even with all the $ I have dumped into 40k since. I have already seen my brother - a pc programmer - priced out as he can't even fit the 6th edition rulebook or harbback chaos codex into his budget with three kids.

Kinda sad but I have seen most shops starting to switch to dust tactics where you can buy squads for $15 (or $11 from miniaturemarket). Oh well, I love that game too and it is growing on me fast.

GW I love you to death but you make me sad :(

A CEO making an email address called 'ihategw', that's fascinating...I wasn't actually aware they let preteens run companies.

 BryllCream wrote:
This thread had exactly what I expected it to have it in. Bravo dakka.

You're welcome to leave at any time. In fact, please do. We need another passive aggressive snarker like we need a nail through the hand.

I think what this is is the continuation of the trend of GW trying to force their customer base to go to them and them alone. Think about what the company has said about having hundreds of more GW stores in America and the shift to make things more direct purchase only from their online stores and brick and mortar locations. Each move costs LFGS more lost revenue as they are forced to compete with their supplier for consumers.

Would you agree to carry product from a company that then opens a store ten minutes down the road from you and only allows you to sell a limited range of their product? It gets frustrating as these are business people who operate LFGS and GW is hamstringing them from making a profit.

So do not be surprised at boycotts to GW practices. One way or another, that store is going to lose money because they either cannot or consciously will not get the product from someone treating them unfairly.

 Peregrine wrote:

FW are official GW releases, as stated by GW.

Obviously beating a dead horse here, but as much as you want it to be like that, and as much as I don't care either way... it's not like that as long as actual WH40k BRB/FAQs and even GW-organized tournaments say they're official/legal for regular 40k. Until that time they're nothing but an optional expansion which opponents have to agree on being allowed or not.

 WarOne wrote:
I think what this is is the continuation of the trend of GW trying to force their customer base to go to them and them alone. Think about what the company has said about having hundreds of more GW stores in America and the shift to make things more direct purchase only from their online stores and brick and mortar locations. Each move costs LFGS more lost revenue as they are forced to compete with their supplier for consumers.

And yet GW's stores in the UK and (especially) Australia appear to be an enormous money pit if you look at their operating costs. It makes you wonder why they don't simply stop the store model and encourage MORE indy shops - especially given that in North America in the 90s a frequent occurrence involved GW opening a store near an independent, driving the indy out of business and then disappearing themselves before too long.

Anyway, Death from the Skies mostly annoys me because I only recently got round to printing out my PDF of Ork flyer rules; now I'll have to wait for another PDF to show up and show me if my info has been invalidated. I may have totally wasted the 16p I spent on printing those pages out.

angryboy2k wrote:

 WarOne wrote:
I think what this is is the continuation of the trend of GW trying to force their customer base to go to them and them alone. Think about what the company has said about having hundreds of more GW stores in America and the shift to make things more direct purchase only from their online stores and brick and mortar locations. Each move costs LFGS more lost revenue as they are forced to compete with their supplier for consumers.

And yet GW's stores in the UK and (especially) Australia appear to be an enormous money pit if you look at their operating costs. It makes you wonder why they don't simply stop the store model and encourage MORE indy shops - especially given that in North America in the 90s a frequent occurrence involved GW opening a store near an independent, driving the indy out of business and then disappearing themselves before too long.

Anyway, Death from the Skies mostly annoys me because I only recently got round to printing out my PDF of Ork flyer rules; now I'll have to wait for another PDF to show up and show me if my info has been invalidated. I may have totally wasted the 16p I spent on printing those pages out.

You know, we can have a real discussion about issues without you coming in and being all like "Look at me, I am cool, I am pirating stuff! Take that GW!"

Your little piracy quip adds nothing to the discussion.

Death from the skies would be an ideal way for retailers to carve some extra goodwill from their customer base.

Buy the books from GW.

Either sell them at cost (retail price) or run a promotion with a copy of the book and some fliers at x discount. Or a 40k DFTS combo deal.

Sure GW gets a sales spike but the shop gets the goodwill, keeps customers interested and the knowledgeable fans will be able to play and see what other goodies the general hobby has to offer.

 Mr. Burning wrote:
Death from the skies would be an ideal way for retailers to carve some extra goodwill from their customer base.

In an ideal world, this would not be a bad idea.

In the retail sense however, many of these LFGS probably cannot afford to do that. A lot of stores have vanished since 2007 (and many have opened as well). A store needs to make money. Carrying a book that nets them exactly zero profit is not in their interests.

I can understand if the retailer gets the kits that allow them to build models for customers to look at (or sell if they're so inclined for more profit), but what does a retailer do if they order six books and they sell the six books but no other merchandise?

Should the retailer feel privileged they should order from GW a product they have no incentive to sell? Should the LFGS make the customers happy? Well, I hope LFGS do not need to do so already as if they're not appreciated, they would be gone anyway.

blackdiamond wrote:

 Kingsley wrote:

If they're trying to help me, they're failing. They're trying to convince me to play a different system, which is not the role of a store. Unfortunately, I have no faith in a store that would sell out a system once. Who is to say they won't end up pulling the same trick against Warmahordes when they next put out a release that the community doesn't like? Fundamentally a store that is willing to sell out a system and stop supporting its customers once has lost its trust with me, and given the easy and appealing "20-30% discounted online store" option such stores will never have my business.

It's not a happy situation. There is no "up side" for retailers. There is little we can do in the face of Games Workshop shenanigans. Our customer bases have eroded, sales fallen as all but the hardcore players have jumped ship in the wake of insanely high prices, anemic releases, and a black out marketing strategy. At a certain point we have to just say NO. Does it make sense that we draw the line in the sand here? I think so. They've made a concerted effort to release a major rules update (or it's completely insignificant, you tell me) by bypassing retailers. I thought it was an empty gesture this morning, but clearly people feel this is a critical rules release, which makes the stand that much more important.

As for what will the dangerous retailer do next, what kind of power do you think we have? We can carry a game or not carry a game. We can run events or not run events. That's about it. We do this through the grace of our customers, who we acknowledge are doing us a favor by spending their hard earned money with us. Again, there is no up side to this, but Games Workshop continues to push us into a corner.

Honestly, at my store this issue effects about 12 people. However, the perception of hostile action is so strong that people hours away declare their intent to boycott. So I ask, is there anything that this company will do to make you lose your loyalty? Must you condemn others for taking a stand, even as you bend over, and close your eyes?

Gary L. Ray
Black Diamond Games, Ltd.
1950 Market Street, Suite E
Concord, CA 94520

925-681-0600
www.blackdiamondgames.com
blackdiamondgames.blogspot.com

:slow clap: If my LGS owner had your stones... well, he wouldn't be eating tinned beans and placing orders only after new Magic releases. But that's beside the point.

nkelsch wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

nkelsch wrote:
Considering 'second hand' books which are less than a year old are often in 'like-new' condition, they are selling pretty well on ebay. It isn't like it is an out of date edition.

It doesn't seem at all like a deal to me.

Take some stuff to a pawnbroker some time and see how much you get for it compared to how much they charge for it.

Again, you'll never get as much for a trade-in as you will selling it yourself. That's just how the second-hand market works.

oh, I know exactly how not doing the legwork yourself works... Every time an item changes hands to the final destination you should expect a 50% cut in cost. So if I sell to you, and you sell to the final owner. I should expect about 50% of what you plan to sell it for so you get your cut.

The issue is this store owner is not a pawn broker or an ebay auction place who is doing this for his primary business. This is a store owner trying to convert a customerbase to another system so he can stay in business as he has a customer-impacting feud with a distributor in an unprofessional way. If he was interested in helping convert customers, and is serious about basically 'destroying' his 40k customerbase, then I feel like he shouldn't be looking to profit off a trade-in program. I would say run it at cost or a loss so it was actually a discount. If he is selling hardback 40k rulebooks for 25$ and giving people 40% discounts of 50$ boxes, he is still profiting. If he was actually serious about converting, he should give people actual discounts out of his pocket in order to take responsibility of his feud with GW if he was serious about it.

I don't feel it is a deal at all. It doesn't add up and combined with the rest of the situation doesn't seem at all appealing to me.

I don't disagree with this, per se. I think that the stores could afford to offer a straight up trade: New PP core book for Hordes or Warmachine for trade in 6E 40k book. Since the PP book is $30, and the GW one is $75 (!!!) the store could turn around and sell the used GW book in store or on Ebay for $30 and still make a profit, while at the same time screwing GW out of the proceeds on their core rule book and one customer who now jumps to another system. The Army book-Codex comparison is a little harder (but easier with every new release as the GW ones are now $50!) but that still might work well for a trade in, however army books are utterly superfluous due to the fact that PP packages each model with its rules. GW could save alot of butthurt by doing the same for their non-codex releases...

 mazik765 wrote:
A CEO making an email address called 'ihategw', that's fascinating...I wasn't actually aware they let preteens run companies.

Anyone tried that email?

I cannot find that open letter on the actual gnome games website. Only the partial excerpts on that one blog, which also seems to be only a few days old.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Kingsley wrote:
To be honest, if any store owner tells me not to play with official Games Workshop products at that store, I'm going to stop playing (and buying) at that store at all. This strategy might work in places where the store is "the only game in town," but I have many choices for stores to attend and if some of them decide not to support the game system I play, I'm out.

Um, no.

Say said store wishes to run a tournament with the latest 40k rules. All the rules are a requirements for every player. Lets say we have 32 players. This store, no matter what has lost £640 as GW has decided to stick 2 fingers up at them and say they cannot purchase this to sell in their stores.

It's not a fringe item like Forgeworld (another item which independents cannot purchase wholesale IIRC). This is an essential update for the core game and if the customers wish to support their FLGS, GW is saying a big, fat NO!

Except it's not an essential update, which is what the other half the people complaining about the book are saying. You can play perfectly fine without it, as the flier rules and errata changes to fliers are either included in the BRB, codices, and FAQs. The only thing that this book is required for it to run two optional units, the Storm Talon and the Ork planes. It doesn't change any of the core rules. I'm with Kingsley on this. It's a glorified, admittedly overpriced WD compendium, that's it. Not an overhaul to the core rules or anything required, and banning it from use in a store is just being petty. For me, I'm now inclined to pick up a couple more fliers (Talon, Dakka Jet, and Razorwing) to expand my various air forces, which results in increased sales for my FLGS.

This is just a few people throwing a tantrum over a book that is optional for everyone but the few that want to run specific units that don't have rules entries available elsewhere.

 WarOne wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:
Death from the skies would be an ideal way for retailers to carve some extra goodwill from their customer base.

In an ideal world, this would not be a bad idea.

In the retail sense however, many of these LFGS probably cannot afford to do that. A lot of stores have vanished since 2007 (and many have opened as well). A store needs to make money. Carrying a book that nets them exactly zero profit is not in their interests.

I can understand if the retailer gets the kits that allow them to build models for customers to look at (or sell if they're so inclined for more profit), but what does a retailer do if they order six books and they sell the six books but no other merchandise?

Should the retailer feel privileged they should order from GW a product they have no incentive to sell? Should the LFGS make the customers happy? Well, I hope LFGS do not need to do so already as if they're not appreciated, they would be gone anyway.

A few problems to a retailer carrying the book:

1.) They wouldn't admit it was coming out. I begged for info, i got various lies, evasions, etc.
2.) While I can order Direct Only items, they have to have them for sale. The last few times they sold items like this, we couldn't order until after they were gone.
3.) Most of my customers ordered it already from GW, not knowing if I could or couldn't get it in.

Maybe this week I can order some? Who knows? ....rapidly turning to "who cares?".

As a retailer and TO, I wouldn't ban the book from my store. That just gives gamers a reason to turn their anger on me, and doesn't hurt GW.

As muchas I love GW's models I hate their way of doing business. I only shop the after market for GW's products. Ebay, craigslist, swaps, etc...

The best thing for stores to d is start a "return section." A local store near me "buys" stuff from people wanting to turn in old models and armies for store credit. The store then sticks a price tag on the "returned" models and sells them. Used, cheaper then retail and supports the FLGS 100%.

ender502

 BryllCream wrote:
This thread had exactly what I expected it to have it in. Bravo dakka.

Then leave it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Starfarer wrote:


You paid for a White Dwarf which contained rules for a model released outside of the codex. Now they have released newer rules(possibly) for that model. Would you have preferred they not release the new Ork flyer models until 2014 or whenever they release the next Ork codex?

Heeeyyyyyyyyyyy Starfarer,

Step into my office...




I bought a model.

I bought a rulebook.

I bought a codex.

I still cannot use the model I bought for my army, despite these purchases, because the rules have been placed in another book. I cannot even buy this book locally or at a discount online, only from GW themselves. The vast amount of that book is optional rules that have little chance of making it into my games, yet there will be 3 vehicle profiles that I need to use flyers in my ork army.

And I know, when they finally release the ork army book, this same information will either be suddenly revised and then the book utterly useless to me, or the same information will be repeated.





And you still cannot grasp why we're pissed off?





Really?

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
It is a slap to the face of the independent stores. You can sell the Stormtalon in your store, but you can't sell the rulebook that includes the Stormtalon's rules. How do you explain that to a customer?

This.