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Mail order isn't always my preference on things. I live in a building with a shared entrance so things going missing is always an issue. Then if they can't get it through the letter box they leave a card and I have to go to the sorting office to get it, which is a mile away and has silly opening times that I can't manage when working full time.
Sometimes it's just nice to go in a shop, hold an item in your hand, examine it yourself and then buy it and own it on the spot.
It's understandable that people like to have a choice between buying in a store or by mail.
I only buy things online I've tested/handled. Meaning I won't buy something online (a book, for example) without being able to thumb through it first. I broke that rule with the Sedition Wars kickstarter, but there's zero motivation for me to do it for this book.
My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
Thanks for writing into us. Sorry for any confusion there may have been. Independent Retailers will be able to order this product just like any other Direct items. I also wanted to clarify that Death From the Skies is a compendium not a rules book. It reprints things previously printed in other books. If you have any other questions please contact us at 1-800-394-4263.
Games Workshop
North America Customer Services
Here's what I got back today.
I just wanted to highlight this. IMO if this is a compendium how are you supposed to use flyers in your army? This is the only place to find rules for them. It just seems like this response is knee-jerk reaction to selling out and very few people having the book.
The new storm talon rules definately haven't printed anywhere before, neither have the c:sm storm raven rules been printed anywhere before so they are lying. Yes the digital codexes have been updated but that was after death from the skies was temporarily released.
Customer service are great for replacing dodgy models but when it comes to getting information out of them they are just as bad as the rest of GW.
Fafnir wrote: Oh, I certainly vote with my dollar, but the problem is that that is not enough. The problem with the 'vote with your dollar' response is that it doesn't take into account why we're not buying the product. I want to enjoy 40k enough to buy back in. It was my introduction to traditional games, and there was a time when I enjoyed it very much. I want to buy 40k, but Gamesworkshop is doing their very best to push me away, and simply not buying their product won't tell them that.
As an FLGS gamer and customer, this decision ticks me off because it undermines the profitability of my FLGS.
I have already contacted GW customer service via e-mail expressing my ire over this decision. I intend to call on Tuesday as well.
If you are an FLGS supporter, throwing in your two cents on this unsatisfactory arrangement is worth doing. If you care, but remain silent, don't bitch when it continues.
Cheers,
Nate
If you care you don't email. You don't buy GW products any more.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
jonolikespie wrote: Customer service are great for replacing dodgy models but when it comes to getting information out of them they are just as bad as the rest of GW.
Well, to be fair, that's because it isn't really their job. They're a pretty strictly product-replacement/post-purchase CS department.
@UNCLEBADTOUCH -- No, you're wrong. Simply and clearly. The Storm Talon rules were printed in WD. Right next to the Ork Bomba Rules. I Ripped them out of the WD last night.
Polonius wrote: I have no problem with the "ban," I'm just not sure how people were supposed to play at all with some fliers without it. (or a .pdf...)
I've idly wondered for years if GW is actually worth the hassle for gaming stores. With the huge upfront cost and massive range compared to CCGs or Roleplaying, aside from prestige I've wondered why so many stores even try.
This is a very fair point.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
@cincydooley that's very odd because the current rules for the storm talon are different from the ones in the white dwarf copy so good luck with playing your games with the wrong rules. If something is different from what was printed previously it obviously hasn't been printed before now has it? Need me to draw you a picture?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/19 14:42:22
cadbren wrote: I don't have time to read through 15 pages so sorry if this has been said:
A more appropriate response from the store would have been to provide free copies of Death from the Skies for use in their tournaments. Anyone wanting to use the rules could also go into the store and look at one of the store copies and take notes from it.
It denies sales to GW, is totally legal, and makes everyone happy except a handful of suits at GWHQ.
You have no clue. Free copies of a book we haven't seen, and were denied ordering?
They will print more. It will go up for sale on a saturday. We get to order on a monday. Guess how many will be left?
....and lo!.....The Age of Sigmar came to an end when Saint Veetock and his hamster legions smote the false Sigmar and destroyed the bubbleverse and lead the true believers back to the Old World.
UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote: @cincydooley that's very odd because the current rules for the storm talon are different from the ones in the white dwarf copy so good luck with playing your games with the wrong rules. If something is different from what was printed previously it obviously hasn't been printed before now has it? Need me to draw you a picture?
You said the rules had never been printed. That was categorically wrong. I called you out on that wrongness.
UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote: @cincydooley that's very odd because the current rules for the storm talon are different from the ones in the white dwarf copy so good luck with playing your games with the wrong rules. If something is different from what was printed previously it obviously hasn't been printed before now has it? Need me to draw you a picture?
You said the rules had never been printed. That was categorically wrong. I called you out on that wrongness.
The rules are different I.e. not the same. I can print a picture of a house. I can then print a picture of a different house. Although I have printed a picture of a house before it is not the same as the new house. Therefore the new house hasn't been in print before. Your "call out" was incorrect and can therefore only be classed as a lack of comprehension, that or your trolling for a negative response.
Polonius wrote: I have no problem with the "ban," I'm just not sure how people were supposed to play at all with some fliers without it. (or a .pdf...)
I've idly wondered for years if GW is actually worth the hassle for gaming stores. With the huge upfront cost and massive range compared to CCGs or Roleplaying, aside from prestige I've wondered why so many stores even try.
This is a very fair point.
For a new store, it's a business decision. They can design their space and layout, product mix, etc.
For me at this point, getting rid of GW would just mean not ever getting a paycheck and having a 50' stretch of empty wall.
That said, there are valid reasons to work at maximizing interest in some other games, and cutting down on excess GW product. Such as most anything LOTR, and a lot of WFB is very slow. GW is helping by gutting our wall anyway, with so many things moving to direct.
Seems like they almost want FLGS's to not sell their product.....hmmmm....
....and lo!.....The Age of Sigmar came to an end when Saint Veetock and his hamster legions smote the false Sigmar and destroyed the bubbleverse and lead the true believers back to the Old World.
yeah, so earlier I wrote; including my letter to GW
Spoiler:
Panic wrote: yeah, All we can do is tell GW what we think they are doing wrong and hope they listen. So I wrote GW a letter. pointing out why I'm not happy with them at the moment...
email them yourselves if you feel like letting them know how you feel. uk.custserv@gwplc.com
++ letter to GW ++ Sirs, I hope at this time of public pressure you take the time to think and realise what it is your doing wrong.
I've complained multiple times about being treated poorly as a WD subscriber, receiving my publication frequently after it's street date because you post them out late and your response has been 'that's how we're doing it.' Your not exactly listening are you?
With regards to the Fliers book, (I've already purchased it. hope the fluff/mission content is good) I believe that the rules for the Ork DakkaJets/Bommer and Spacemarine Stormtalon should be available as free PDFs... people who want to use these already have codexs and models. Asking for more is pure greed!
You've given away free unit pdfs before when you released the Eldar night spinner. I thought that was the start of great things from GW. New units added to a codex for free mid cycle! Yes Please! Please go back to that kind of thinking! your customers loved it! bought the models.
Add to this the SpaceMarine IP rants your having and you can see why you come across as a Bully. No one likes a Bully. You know this so why are you acting like one?
I've taken the time to write to you with my ideas and concerns. Please take the time and consider my email and get back to me.
Panic... GW fan.
PS Also removing a customer interaction point during a crisis smacks of cowardice. You don't see tesco deleting their facebook page at the first sign of horse trouble.
++ end of letter ++
Panic...
GW have replied
Spoiler:
GW wrote:Hello Panic,
Thank you for your email.
White Dwarf is released on a Saturday and the first place it becomes available is in retail stores. As a subscriber, your copy will arrive between the release day up until the Wednesday of the following week dependent on your local post service.This is to ensure we do not have leaks of the content before the release day as it is an official Games Workshop product. By subscribing you are guaranteed to receive your copy when many issues sell out and of receiving the issue straight to your door.
If you are unsatisfied with the way that White Dwarf is delivered to subscribers, we do also now offer an in store subscription service, whereby you can purchase in store a booklet of 12 vouchers which are redeemable in any UK Games Workshop store, and can be used either on the day of release or whenever you feel like picking up a copy. This particular method of subscription however does not guarantee you a copy like the direct to door subscriptions.
With regards to your point about Facebook, this was a company choice do to the amount of administration effort it was taking to maintain and update. We also decided that our customer interaction should come either directly from us at customer services, or through our other 138 stores and store Facebook pages.
Thank you for your feedback about the fliers, and pdf's, we will make sure that your comments are passed on to the relevant departments.
Best regards, Lydia Games Workshop Customer Service
tel: 0044 (0) 115 91 40000
Open Monday to Friday 9.30am to 6pm
I think they still don't get it that people expect subscriptions to arrive before release day.. But regards the free flier PDFs at least they are passing comment on and that sounds like a little win to me.
Panic...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/19 16:11:11
I imagine the need to prevent leaks and to drive people into the stores is more important than subscriber satisfaction.
It's not even worth pointing out to them that by the time subscribers get the magazine, any limited edition stuff advertised in it is already sold out.
As to the facebook thing, I'm sure they must realised they've moved the admistration of the page from 1 department to 138 of them, so the admin workload can only increase unless customer service is to plummet further.
Kudos on emailing them though, but I'm hardly surprised by the reply.
Panic wrote: I think they still don't get it that people expect subscriptions to arrive before release day..
But regards the free flier PDFs at least they are passing comment on and that sounds like a little win to me.
Panic...
They get it. They just happen to disagree.
Looking for great deals on miniatures or have a large pile you are looking to sell off? Checkout Mindtaker Miniatures.
Live in the Pacific NW? Check out http://ordofanaticus.com
If a majority of FLGS actually stopped stocking GW products would it cause a problem? I would imagine a lot of GW players would think not, but are GW pplaced to cope with something like this? They closed a lot of stores or turned them in to one man stores, would they cope with an influx of customers? Would the online store cope? Could GW expand it quick enough to cope with all the gamers no longer going to their FLGS for their fix?
... or would they loose gamers because they couldn't be bothered to drive to their local GW store or is ordering from GW mail order more expensive due to the p&p?
It is very odd behaviour from GW as their t&c's were that you had to have a bricks & morter store so that you could provide the proper gaming experience for customers. Not only do FLGS provide that, they also save GW money in areas that may not justify a GW store, but still have a good turn over of product. GW gets the best of both worlds, somebody funding a retail operation and buying their product, with no extra costs for GW.
It does make you wonder sometimes what goes on at head office.
Live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart. Trouble no one about his religion. Respect others in their views and demand that they respect yours. Love your life, perfect your life. Beautify all things in your life. Seek to make your life long and of service to your people. When your time comes to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with fear of death, so that when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Sing your death song, and die like a hero going home.
Lt. Rorke - Act of Valor
I can now be found on Facebook under the name of Wulfstan Design
After reading that email, I don't see why anyone bothered to give Panic a hard time about checking his spelling: that letter had multiple issues too: do vs due, and the sentence "when many issues sell out and of receiving the issue straight to your door" doesn't even make sense. "And of receiving"? I don't even...that's a 7th grade sentence error. I appreciate that they took the time to directly answer his email. But there was no attempt to proof read for errors. This isn't a bash on the letter, so much as letting guys know to chill on Panic: if the company he writes to can't be bothered to proofread, why should he?
Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.
timetowaste85 wrote: This isn't a bash on the letter, so much as letting guys know to chill on Panic: if the company he writes to can't be bothered to proofread, why should he?
It is known as talking appropriately to your audience. GWCS figured they better 'spice' their response up a bit.
Looking for great deals on miniatures or have a large pile you are looking to sell off? Checkout Mindtaker Miniatures.
Live in the Pacific NW? Check out http://ordofanaticus.com
Wolfstan wrote: If a majority of FLGS actually stopped stocking GW products would it cause a problem? I would imagine a lot of GW players would think not, but are GW pplaced to cope with something like this?
... or would they loose gamers because they couldn't be bothered to drive to their local GW store or is ordering from GW mail order more expensive due to the p&p?
Maybe in Europe this would be fine, as you guys have more GW stores, but in the US, this would suck. GW stores here are few and far between.
My "local" GW store is 122 miles away.
rigeld2 wrote: Now go ahead and take that out of context to make me look like a fool.
Panic wrote: yeah,
so earlier I wrote; including my letter to GW
Spoiler:
Panic wrote: yeah,
All we can do is tell GW what we think they are doing wrong and hope they listen.
So I wrote GW a letter. pointing out why I'm not happy with them at the moment...
email them yourselves if you feel like letting them know how you feel. uk.custserv@gwplc.com
++ letter to GW ++
Sirs,
I hope at this time of public pressure you take the time to think and realise what it is your doing wrong.
I've complained multiple times about being treated poorly as a WD subscriber, receiving my publication frequently after it's street date because you post them out late and your response has been 'that's how we're doing it.'
Your not exactly listening are you?
With regards to the Fliers book, (I've already purchased it. hope the fluff/mission content is good)
I believe that the rules for the Ork DakkaJets/Bommer and Spacemarine Stormtalon should be available as free PDFs...
people who want to use these already have codexs and models. Asking for more is pure greed!
You've given away free unit pdfs before when you released the Eldar night spinner.
I thought that was the start of great things from GW. New units added to a codex for free mid cycle! Yes Please!
Please go back to that kind of thinking! your customers loved it! bought the models.
Add to this the SpaceMarine IP rants your having and you can see why you come across as a Bully.
No one likes a Bully. You know this so why are you acting like one?
I've taken the time to write to you with my ideas and concerns.
Please take the time and consider my email and get back to me.
Panic...
GW fan.
PS Also removing a customer interaction point during a crisis smacks of cowardice.
You don't see tesco deleting their facebook page at the first sign of horse trouble.
++ end of letter ++
Panic...
GW have replied
Spoiler:
GW wrote:Hello Panic,
Thank you for your email.
White Dwarf is released on a Saturday and the first place it becomes available is in retail stores. As a subscriber, your copy will arrive between the release day up until the Wednesday of the following week dependent on your local post service.This is to ensure we do not have leaks of the content before the release day as it is an official Games Workshop product. By subscribing you are guaranteed to receive your copy when many issues sell out and of receiving the issue straight to your door.
If you are unsatisfied with the way that White Dwarf is delivered to subscribers, we do also now offer an in store subscription service, whereby you can purchase in store a booklet of 12 vouchers which are redeemable in any UK Games Workshop store, and can be used either on the day of release or whenever you feel like picking up a copy. This particular method of subscription however does not guarantee you a copy like the direct to door subscriptions.
With regards to your point about Facebook, this was a company choice do to the amount of administration effort it was taking to maintain and update. We also decided that our customer interaction should come either directly from us at customer services, or through our other 138 stores and store Facebook pages.
Thank you for your feedback about the fliers, and pdf's, we will make sure that your comments are passed on to the relevant departments.
Best regards,
Lydia
Games Workshop Customer Service
tel: 0044 (0) 115 91 40000
Open Monday to Friday 9.30am to 6pm
I think they still don't get it that people expect subscriptions to arrive before release day..
But regards the free flier PDFs at least they are passing comment on and that sounds like a little win to me.
Panic...
Oh wow they are still sticking with the "its maintenence" line for their facebook page. Guess its hard to delete comments faster then they are coming in.
Rick Priestley said it best:
Bryan always said that if the studio ever had to mix with the manufacturing and sales part of the business it would destroy the studio. And I have to say – he wasn’t wrong there! The modern studio isn’t a studio in the same way; it isn’t a collection of artists and creatives sharing ideas and driving each other on. It’s become the promotions department of a toy company – things move on!
timetowaste85 wrote: After reading that email, I don't see why anyone bothered to give Panic a hard time about checking his spelling: that letter had multiple issues too: do vs due, and the sentence "when many issues sell out and of receiving the issue straight to your door" doesn't even make sense. "And of receiving"? I don't even...that's a 7th grade sentence error. I appreciate that they took the time to directly answer his email. But there was no attempt to proof read for errors. This isn't a bash on the letter, so much as letting guys know to chill on Panic: if the company he writes to can't be bothered to proofread, why should he?
Forward note: This isn't a bash on the UK.
I'm very, very tired of GW and their lack of any editorial action on ANYTHING they put forward to the public. You'd think the region that cultivated the English language would put a little effort into checking their material. Be it email or codex.
As for the ban, good for the stores sticking up to the man. Capitalism will be Capitalism...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/19 16:38:02
I need to return some video tapes. Skulls for the Skull Throne
Wolfstan wrote: If a majority of FLGS actually stopped stocking GW products would it cause a problem? I would imagine a lot of GW players would think not, but are GW pplaced to cope with something like this?
... or would they loose gamers because they couldn't be bothered to drive to their local GW store or is ordering from GW mail order more expensive due to the p&p?
Maybe in Europe this would be fine, as you guys have more GW stores, but in the US, this would suck. GW stores here are few and far between.
My "local" GW store is 122 miles away.
There are no end to Internet discounters, especially for US customers. So access to GW products as a whole would not actually be harder without FLGS for many people who already do without local GWs or FLGS. The issue is without FLGS, many people lose their location to PLAY as well as their network for meeting people to play with. Even a large portion of the organized play 'tourney' circuit is run and sponsored by FLGS at FLGS.
So making it hard for FLGS to sell GW may not impact sales or availability of product, but it WILL impact ability to play the game and that will impact sales. If I can order 10k of models online for 90% off for a game, that does me no good if I have no where to play it or people to play it with.
Would independent gaming clubs pop up? Yes? No? Maybe? I think it is important for FLGS to be supported, but many new games and Miniature companies seem to be popping up as 'Internet only' distributors so they can cut out the middle man and promote play via 'clubs' and independent groups and not store-based gaming. I am unsure of any of those companies will succeed or just be flash in the pan and die out when the Kickstarter hangover is done, but it is interesting to say the least.
My Models: Ork Army: Waaagh 'Az-ard - Chibi Dungeon RPG Models! - My Workblog! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
RULE OF COOL: When converting models, there is only one rule: "The better your model looks, the less people will complain about it."
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
MODELING FOR ADVANTAGE TEST: rigeld2: "Easy test - are you willing to play the model as a stock one? No? MFA."
White Dwarf is released on a Saturday and the first place it becomes available is in retail stores. As a subscriber, your copy will arrive between the release day up until the Wednesday of the following week dependent on your local post service.This is to ensure we do not have leaks of the content before the release day as it is an official Games Workshop product. By subscribing you are guaranteed to receive your copy when many issues sell out and of receiving the issue straight to your door.
If you are unsatisfied with the way that White Dwarf is delivered to subscribers, we do also now offer an in store subscription service, whereby you can purchase in store a booklet of 12 vouchers which are redeemable in any UK Games Workshop store, and can be used either on the day of release or whenever you feel like picking up a copy. This particular method of subscription however does not guarantee you a copy like the direct to door subscriptions.
With regards to your point about Facebook, this was a company choice do to the amount of administration effort it was taking to maintain and update. We also decided that our customer interaction should come either directly from us at customer services, or through our other 138 stores and store Facebook pages.
Thank you for your feedback about the fliers, and pdf's, we will make sure that your comments are passed on to the relevant departments.
Best regards,
Lydia
Games Workshop Customer Service
tel: 0044 (0) 115 91 40000
Open Monday to Friday 9.30am to 6pm
With regards to your point about Facebook, this was a company choice do to the amount of administration effort it was taking to maintain and update. We also decided that our customer interaction should come either directly from us at customer services, or through our other 138 stores and store Facebook pages.
Ha, ha, ha, ha... I'm assuming from this that their experience of the interweb went badly for them and they pulled back from it again?
Live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart. Trouble no one about his religion. Respect others in their views and demand that they respect yours. Love your life, perfect your life. Beautify all things in your life. Seek to make your life long and of service to your people. When your time comes to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with fear of death, so that when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Sing your death song, and die like a hero going home.
Lt. Rorke - Act of Valor
I can now be found on Facebook under the name of Wulfstan Design
5000pts 
6000pts 
3000pts
I need to return some video tapes. 
Skulls for the Skull Throne 
