Retailers ban Death from the Skies

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**insaniak**

gorgon wrote:
At some point, PP will need to go public if they intend to keep growing. It all depends on the vision and greed of the owner(s).

Going public isn't the only way to grow. Quicker, easier... But Lego is pretty darn big, and still privately owned.

**warboss**

insaniak wrote:
gorgon wrote:
At some point, PP will need to go public if they intend to keep growing. It all depends on the vision and greed of the owner(s).

Going public isn't the only way to grow. Quicker, easier...

Does it also give you access to powers deemed unnatural by the Jedi?

**insaniak**

Yes, but once you start down that path, forever will it dominate your destiny...

It's actually an even better comparison than I expected...

**Gentleman_Jellyfish**

Bloodwin wrote:
As for the US I wouldn't be surprised if GW went to one store per state or just went mail order and FLGS only.

That would be fine by me. Leaves enough space for the LGS to thrive.

**Consul Scipio**

There already is enough space for the LGS to thrive. That's part of GWs problem trying to figure out the US market. The LGSs that are "good" don't rely on GW and therefore thrive with or without them. GW store down the street or right next door? So what?* Would the LGSs like to have good sales from GW products? I suspect so. Do they need GW to thrive? No.

GW going mail order and FLGS in the USA makes sense. Therefore they will not do it.

GW opening a store in every state and making it hard for FLGS to purchase their product doesn't make sense. Therefore...

Note that it's been reported by former staff over on Warseer that Trade Sales is GWs most profitable sales channel.

*Reference: Northern VA and Maryland. 20+ years GW has had stores, off and on in some cases, yet some FLGSs are still around and some of those FLGSs are doing quite well it seems.

**timetowaste85**

Tannhauser42 wrote:
The sad part is, GW probably considers the release of this new book to be a resounding success: after all, they're sold out!

I won't be surprised if future releases will also screw over the retailers. All GW has to do is have a new release in limited numbers so that a store only gets one or two of it at most, and then after that initial "wide release", it then becomes direct only.

According to the store I make most of my purchases at, this is already happening. As a partnership store, he is only getting in the stuff during opening weekend, 2-3 copies (other than books) and can't get them back in after. Unless, of course, they're basic kits. The company IS trying to run out the regular FLGSs. Mikhaila is going through it, as is my store. I trust those two places/owners quite a bit.

**kevlar'o**

so gw is controling what they sell and who gets to sell it?

**timetowaste85**

Yeah. They are.

**Adam LongWalker**

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
silent25 wrote:
Adam LongWalker wrote:

I have to agree with Mean Green Stompa with his assessment. I'll say this once again. Wells was only taking orders from Kirby. He should not be the scapegoat for the current business model of the revenue streaming process that has been going on since 2010. Kirby is the man calling the shots. Independent retailers are eventually going to be less and less be out of the equation for GW's future ways of receiving their revenue.

If Kirby is the only one calling the shots and dictating this mentality, Mikhaila would have never started to praise GW back in the day because GW would have never offered those benefits. Kirby has been in charge of GW since 1991. The change in GW's approach to stores in this country and cost cutting reflects the time Wells was CEO. He clearly had an influence on the running of GW and was not some rubber stamp that people think. He left his mark on the company and changed the mentality of company. Will Kirby change things back though? I don't think so.

I spoke to Mikhaila about this in January 2010, that's when he was entirely enthused about GW and explained how much GW USA did for him and why he loved their reliability and support for the indy store.

What else happened in 2010? -Snip-

Oh I agree with you. The networking over the years within the entertainment industry (as well as my expertise) gives me the information that fills the gaps and/or re-enforce, or change view points established on this site. I know what my data tells me and say what I can say when allowed. I also will DCM people who I find are people who can give a logical viewpoint about the hobby. Those are the people I listen too as well as people who can present a logical, well written thought on this site. We both agree that Kirby is calling the shots, gathering more shares of stock, (oh you know that he is probably not buying the shares as currently stated, probably part of his stock options/perks) so when he retires he can cash (some of it or all of it) out.

I deal with these types of (rich mind set) people within my commercial holdings. You have no idea on how much sanitizer I use on my hands after shaking theirs and or their subordinates.

I do not like the trend this is taking place on how they are producing product, the current store logistics, and alienating the LGFS partners like they are doing now.

**pities2004**

robpace wrote:
My latest blog post details the tensions between independent retailers and Games Workshop, specifically in relation to the new Death from the Skies supplement.

Fwoosh!

Some of the new flyer rules must be for flamers, because that's the sound of the new Death from the Skies supplement (which is available as of today exclusively through the Games Workshop website) burning bridges at several independent retail stores.

Here's an open letter from Pat Fuge, CEO of the Gnome Games retail chain in Wisconsin:

"Dear Games Workshop. You have made it less than desirable to sell your games and allow our place space to be used for your exclusive sales to the customers we take care of. For that reason all content in your new Aerial Combat Book is banned for all of our events. The book will not be allowed in our stores and is considered contraband.

GW players if you want to trade in your armies for store credit for Warmachine we have an opportunity for you. Please email ihategw@gnomegames.com for details."

Gary Ray of Black Diamond Games posted a similar sentiment on his blog:

"Trade in your current edition Warhammer 40K or Warhammer Fantasy rulebook and you take 40% off a starter box or rulebook for Warmachine or Hordes. We've done this with role-playing before, notably D&D and Pathfinder, so we know there are likely a bunch of rulebooks gathering dust and the need for excuses to start a new game. Let this be your excuse."

Additionally, as of this posting several other independent retailers have pledged to ban the use of Death from the Skies in their stores. The supplement represents a tipping point in the strained relationship between independent retailers and Games Workshop, which released several exclusive products through their official website recently, cutting out independent retailers and driving consumers directly to Games Workshop for their hobby fix.

Aaah nerd rage at its finest.

**Alabaster.clown**

Adam LongWalker wrote:
... We both agree that Kirby is calling the shots, gathering more shares of stock, (oh you know that he is probably not buying the shares as currently stated, probably part of his stock options/perks) so when he retires he can cash (some of it or all of it) out.
...
I do not like the trend this is taking place on how they are producing product, the current store logistics, and alienating the LGFS partners like they are doing now.

For this plan to work, the stock has to actually be worth something when Kirby retires - not something that is likely if current Kirby-GW policies continue.

**jonolikespie**

Alabaster.clown wrote:
Adam LongWalker wrote:
... We both agree that Kirby is calling the shots, gathering more shares of stock, (oh you know that he is probably not buying the shares as currently stated, probably part of his stock options/perks) so when he retires he can cash (some of it or all of it) out.
...
I do not like the trend this is taking place on how they are producing product, the current store logistics, and alienating the LGFS partners like they are doing now.

For this plan to work, the stock has to actually be worth something when Kirby retires - not something that is likely if current Kirby-GW policies continue.

Yep, but he most likely plans to retire just days before it crashes.

**pities2004**

Gas prices keep going up maybe gas stations should stop selling gas!

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kanluwen wrote:
This is a serious question:

How many people who play at shops more than at home/clubs where you would not have access to a store copy actually own a copy of Apocalypse, Cities of Death, or Planetstrike?

Things like "Death from the Skies" strike me as more a "club purchase" at this point rather than an "individual purchase".

I own all if those

**Grot 6**

pities2004 wrote:
Gas prices keep going up maybe gas stations should stop selling gas!

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kanluwen wrote:
This is a serious question:

How many people who play at shops more than at home/clubs where you would not have access to a store copy actually own a copy of Apocalypse, Cities of Death, or Planetstrike?

Things like "Death from the Skies" strike me as more a "club purchase" at this point rather than an "individual purchase".

I own all if those

Where did you get them from?

**pities2004**

robpace wrote:
My latest blog post details the tensions between independent retailers and Games Workshop, specifically in relation to the new Death from the Skies supplement.

Fwoosh!

Some of the new flyer rules must be for flamers, because that's the sound of the new Death from the Skies supplement (which is available as of today exclusively through the Games Workshop website) burning bridges at several independent retail stores.

Here's an open letter from Pat Fuge, CEO of the Gnome Games retail chain in Wisconsin:

"Dear Games Workshop. You have made it less than desirable to sell your games and allow our place space to be used for your exclusive sales to the customers we take care of. For that reason all content in your new Aerial Combat Book is banned for all of our events. The book will not be allowed in our stores and is considered contraband.

GW players if you want to trade in your armies for store credit for Warmachine we have an opportunity for you. Please email ihategw@gnomegames.com for details."

Gary Ray of Black Diamond Games posted a similar sentiment on his blog:

"Trade in your current edition Warhammer 40K or Warhammer Fantasy rulebook and you take 40% off a starter box or rulebook for Warmachine or Hordes. We've done this with role-playing before, notably D&D and Pathfinder, so we know there are likely a bunch of rulebooks gathering dust and the need for excuses to start a new game. Let this be your excuse."

Additionally, as of this posting several other independent retailers have pledged to ban the use of Death from the Skies in their stores. The supplement represents a tipping point in the strained relationship between independent retailers and Games Workshop, which released several exclusive products through their official website recently, cutting out independent retailers and driving consumers directly to Games Workshop for their hobby fix.

Guru: Hush Nail. I'm speaking for you.

Please don't attach non wargaming images to Dakka. You need to use off site hosting if you wish to display any such images.

**draugadan**

I haven't read all 30+ pages. But it seems to me that Retailers are missing the mark. If it was my store I would be upset about the direct only sales of this supplement. However... there IS a way to not punish the customer and still "stick" it to GW.

So, if it were my store, I would purchase a store copy of the book and make it available to my customers for free. Customers get to use their flyer models, and should be all around happy. GW loses out on sales to every customer in that store. Seems pretty win/win to me.

I would continue to do so for all direct only rules books.

**jonolikespie**

draugadan wrote:
I haven't read all 30+ pages. But it seems to me that Retailers are missing the mark. If it was my store I would be upset about the direct only sales of this supplement. However... there IS a way to not punish the customer and still "stick" it to GW.

So, if it were my store, I would purchase a store copy of the book and make it available to my customers for free. Customers get to use their flyer models, and should be all around happy. GW loses out on sales to every customer in that store. Seems pretty win/win to me.

I would continue to do so for all direct only rules books.

I think the problem with that is that people aren't getting annoyed about this particular book, but rather what it represents.
FLGS in the US have had a really good relationship with GW for years, but now it is clear that GW want to force the UK store structure on the US market. They don't want FLGS selling you models, they want you to be buying from GW stores only. having a store copy is all well and good for this release but what about when is becomes codexs?

**Ravenous D**

If that is the case GW are just plain stupid, with them booting out vets and stopping games at their stores why the hell would I go there over an FLGS or an internet discounter?

Pay where you play.

**pities2004**

Ravenous D wrote:
If that is the case GW are just plain stupid, with them booting out vets and stopping games at their stores why the hell would I go there over an FLGS or an internet discounter?

Pay where you play.

GW kicking out vets? The hell you talking about

**Amaya**

insaniak wrote:
gorgon wrote:
At some point, PP will need to go public if they intend to keep growing. It all depends on the vision and greed of the owner(s).

Going public isn't the only way to grow. Quicker, easier... But Lego is pretty darn big, and still privately owned.

Lego is also a bit of an anomaly. No one could have predicted that building blocks would become so popular. PP is operating in an established and developed market that is at least three decades old ASFAIK.

**McNinja**

Amaya wrote:
insaniak wrote:
gorgon wrote:
At some point, PP will need to go public if they intend to keep growing. It all depends on the vision and greed of the owner(s).

Going public isn't the only way to grow. Quicker, easier... But Lego is pretty darn big, and still privately owned.

Lego is also a bit of an anomaly. No one could have predicted that building blocks would become so popular. PP is operating in an established and developed market that is at least three decades old ASFAIK.

Lego is operating in a market it created in the 1940's.

**Yodhrin**

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
If you've already bought a codex and the company releases a new mini, I personally think that's great. If you then also buy that new mini, the very least they could do is give you the bloody rules for it, not stick them in another book and charge you as much for the rules as the mini costs.

It's highway bloody robbery.

It's a further act of grabbing parasitical lowlife to then limit who sells those rules so that only the parent company, at full price, can sell them, but then also take away gaming in the parent stores so that Independent store owners who DO provide the service of gaming tables are expected to enjoy the sight of you using products they can't sell on their tables.

These stores banning the use of the expansion are as entitled to ban it's use as GW is to ban the use of proxy models. Their store, their rules.

Then they can enjoy the fact that their rules have cost them my money.

This is no different than that truly petty indie store owner over on Warseer who refuses to let people use Forgeworld units or rules in his store because they didn't buy them from him; it's their choice to do so, obviously, nobody has said anything different, but choices have consequences, and walking into a store for a game and being told "You can't use that in here, because GW wouldn't let me sell it to you" is about 10,000% more likely to drive my custom elsewhere than "Check out this cool new model I have for sale, you'll have to order the rules direct from GW though sorry for the inconvenience". The local indie store is already a significantly lower-value proposition because of their inflated prices compared to online retailers, and people are willing to pay that premium because they want the place where they go to play games to remain available; but if they can no longer play the games they want to play there, why would they continue to support the store?

Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

**MeanGreenStompa**

I've never in my 28 years of wargaming every encountered a gaming store that forbade the use of forgeworld models, other than Games Workshop themselves...

**Alkasyn**

pities2004 wrote:
Ravenous D wrote:
If that is the case GW are just plain stupid, with them booting out vets and stopping games at their stores why the hell would I go there over an FLGS or an internet discounter?

Pay where you play.

GW kicking out vets? The hell you talking about

Can't tell if you're being sarcastic, but to give you an example:

the only official GW store in the whole of Poland (40 million people) located in Warsaw (2 million people) only allows 40k gaming from 1600 to 1900 on Thursdays.
FB is allowed in similar hours on Wednesday. Tuesday is LOTR.

You cannot go there and get a game otherwise.

**Savageconvoy**

Alkasyn wrote:

Can't tell if you're being sarcastic, but to give you an example:

the only official GW store in the whole of Poland (40 million people) located in Warsaw (2 million people) only allows 40k gaming from 1600 to 1900 on Thursdays.
FB is allowed in similar hours on Wednesday. Tuesday is LOTR.

You cannot go there and get a game otherwise.

Wow. It's almost like they've perfected the formula on running a terrible game shop. No other days other than those three days?
And only a 3 hour window to play? I'll admit I'm a somewhat slow player, and that'd be really pushing it for me to try and get anything more than 1.5K 1vs1 game in with that time frame.

**AllSeeingSkink**

Alkasyn wrote:
pities2004 wrote:
Ravenous D wrote:
If that is the case GW are just plain stupid, with them booting out vets and stopping games at their stores why the hell would I go there over an FLGS or an internet discounter?

Pay where you play.

GW kicking out vets? The hell you talking about

Can't tell if you're being sarcastic, but to give you an example:

the only official GW store in the whole of Poland (40 million people) located in Warsaw (2 million people) only allows 40k gaming from 1600 to 1900 on Thursdays.
FB is allowed in similar hours on Wednesday. Tuesday is LOTR.

You cannot go there and get a game otherwise.

Wow, that's so incredibly stupid. The local GWs near me you can rock up with an army almost any time and play a game as long as you leave a table free for intro games. There are dedicated vets days, but really you can show up whenever as long as you have an opponent to play against. They'll even let you play with the store armies.

This should be business 101, have people in your store having fun with your products and they'll be more inclined to buy more of your products.

I know half the reason I still buy GW paints and occasionally even buy a full price box set (which is saying a lot in Australia!) is because I go to my local GW to paint things and chat with the guys and they let me use the store paints/sprays/brushes while I'm there. I wouldn't buy anything from them if they didn't.

**mrwhoop**

Savageconvoy wrote:
Alkasyn wrote:

Can't tell if you're being sarcastic, but to give you an example:

the only official GW store in the whole of Poland (40 million people) located in Warsaw (2 million people) only allows 40k gaming from 1600 to 1900 on Thursdays.
FB is allowed in similar hours on Wednesday. Tuesday is LOTR.

You cannot go there and get a game otherwise.

Wow. It's almost like they've perfected the formula on running a terrible game shop. No other days other than those three days?
And only a 3 hour window to play? I'll admit I'm a somewhat slow player, and that'd be really pushing it for me to try and get anything more than 1.5K 1vs1 game in with that time frame.

No no sir, I believe those are the times and kits you can buy. After all GW is a model company, not a place to play.

And for the record I buy where I play and since I can't even buy it in a GW (ordering to deliver there doesn't count) I will be going back to M:TG. This gives GW time to try to play properly and me time to assemble/paint my models.

**Ravenous D**

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
If you've already bought a codex and the company releases a new mini, I personally think that's great. If you then also buy that new mini, the very least they could do is give you the bloody rules for it, not stick them in another book and charge you as much for the rules as the mini costs.

It's highway bloody robbery.

It's a further act of grabbing parasitical lowlife to then limit who sells those rules so that only the parent company, at full price, can sell them, but then also take away gaming in the parent stores so that Independent store owners who DO provide the service of gaming tables are expected to enjoy the sight of you using products they can't sell on their tables.

These stores banning the use of the expansion are as entitled to ban it's use as GW is to ban the use of proxy models. Their store, their rules.

Actually today something fun happened, a kid was trying to deepstrike his Vendettas and was told he couldnt anymore because of the new update, the response was "Why the

would I buy a $40 book to nerf my models?"

On a side note, if you want to save money just take a picture of the page with your phone from the book, save money, bam, I did that with IA 10 for Ashmantle, like hell Im spending $90 for one models rules. I plan on doing the same with DftS. $40 for 6 pages? HA, no.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

mrwhoop wrote:
Savageconvoy wrote:
Alkasyn wrote:

Can't tell if you're being sarcastic, but to give you an example:

the only official GW store in the whole of Poland (40 million people) located in Warsaw (2 million people) only allows 40k gaming from 1600 to 1900 on Thursdays.
FB is allowed in similar hours on Wednesday. Tuesday is LOTR.

You cannot go there and get a game otherwise.

Wow. It's almost like they've perfected the formula on running a terrible game shop. No other days other than those three days?
And only a 3 hour window to play? I'll admit I'm a somewhat slow player, and that'd be really pushing it for me to try and get anything more than 1.5K 1vs1 game in with that time frame.

No no sir, I believe those are the times and kits you can buy. After all GW is a model company, not a place to play.

And for the record I buy where I play and since I can't even buy it in a GW (ordering to deliver there doesn't count) I will be going back to M:TG. This gives GW time to try to play properly and me time to assemble/paint my models.

Yeah but GW WAS a place that welcomed play and built communities, tell them to bugger off and play in a basement is the least intelligent thing to do for repeat business.

**-Loki-**

Ravenous D wrote:
MeanGreenStompa wrote:
If you've already bought a codex and the company releases a new mini, I personally think that's great. If you then also buy that new mini, the very least they could do is give you the bloody rules for it, not stick them in another book and charge you as much for the rules as the mini costs.

It's highway bloody robbery.

It's a further act of grabbing parasitical lowlife to then limit who sells those rules so that only the parent company, at full price, can sell them, but then also take away gaming in the parent stores so that Independent store owners who DO provide the service of gaming tables are expected to enjoy the sight of you using products they can't sell on their tables.

These stores banning the use of the expansion are as entitled to ban it's use as GW is to ban the use of proxy models. Their store, their rules.

Actually today something fun happened, a kid was trying to deepstrike his Vendettas and was told he couldnt anymore because of the new update, the response was "Why the would I buy a $40 book to nerf my models?"

Not uncommon. In my FLGS, I was debating the virtues of Tyranid Primes with someone, and they said 'at least they can deep strike with a squad'. I pointed out the FAQ which said you can't, and they were truly shocked there was a FAQ. Long time gamers, unaware GW FAQ'd their stuff.

**insaniak**

Given that they hide the FAQs away in their article section and never actually notify anyone when they are updated, that's really not that surprising.