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This is not entirely true. Once again, the US has so far had no restriction on selling overseas. It's just made difficult by the 'no webcart' policy.

Very few things are "entirely true" in something as complicated as this, there are generally always exceptions. What you said is also not "entirely true" because some stores that don't deal with GW directly can and DO have web shopping carts. Here's one right here:
http://www.spikeybits.com/servlet/StoreFront

Would it be legal for GW to tell stores in the US who and where they can sell to?

That's the question HBMC, I hope it goes against trade law honestly - I love the product, just not the company attitude. I understand it's a business, but these acts are just taking the piss a little too far. Bite the hand that feeds you too many times and all that.

Regional protection of wholesalers is absolutly legal to a certain degree.

Heres a question for the mathematically minded.

How much does an Australian game store pay for GW stock.

Is it more or less than UK retail?

I could really see some retailers moving away from the GW ordering system and just getting someone in the UK to post stock to them after picking it up for retail prices at wayland.

Retail markup on GW stock used to be 30%, although I'm about 10 years out of date there so it may have changed... so it's entirely possible that UK retail is lower than Oz wholesale.

But given that most games stores here sell at a discount to encourage any sales at all, once you factor in shipping and import duties (unless you're shipping in less than $1000 worth of stock at a time, which would be tedious) I can't see that being financially viable for a store.

 kevlar'o wrote:
If this were to happen and i mean a big IF, do you think i could order online from the us or uk have it sent to my gw here on the gold coast - if it;s still open and pick up in store for cheaper?

LOLWTF?

How could you possibly equate what is being discussed with being able to get lower prices?
How could you possibly equate ANY corporate cost cutting measure with getting lower prices?
I know its nice to hope, but I have to break your bubble - what you pay for GW products is never going to go down. Ever.

GW have done, and will continue to, take steps to eliminate any cheaper alternate route to obtaining your meth-styrene fix other than their own prescribed over-priced channels until either the company implodes or a legal challenge is made and won.

Like all addictions, its a problem stuffed in a conundrum wrapped in an enigma... their addiction is profits. Whats yours?

GBL wrote:
I could really see some retailers moving away from the GW ordering system and just getting someone in the UK to post stock to them after picking it up for retail prices at wayland.

5 bucks if you can guess what clauses GW indy retailer contracts will have included next... Arms dealers style end user certificates anyone?

 insaniak wrote:
Retail markup on GW stock used to be 30%, although I'm about 10 years out of date there so it may have changed... so it's entirely possible that UK retail is lower than Oz wholesale.

But given that most games stores here sell at a discount to encourage any sales at all, once you factor in shipping and import duties (unless you're shipping in less than $1000 worth of stock at a time, which would be tedious) I can't see that being financially viable for a store.

A guy on youtube explained that if they sell to a FLGS they have to sell it a lot lower than they sell it to us (the end consumer) in order for the FLGS to sell at the RRP and still turn a profit. If I buy my new Land Raider directly from GW, their profit margins go up from from about 25%, to 100%!!!

They are doing all this to encourage the FLGS NOT to stock their products, so we have to get it directly from them.

 Kavish wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Retail markup on GW stock used to be 30%, although I'm about 10 years out of date there so it may have changed... so it's entirely possible that UK retail is lower than Oz wholesale.

But given that most games stores here sell at a discount to encourage any sales at all, once you factor in shipping and import duties (unless you're shipping in less than $1000 worth of stock at a time, which would be tedious) I can't see that being financially viable for a store.

A guy on youtube explained that if they sell to a FLGS they have to sell it a lot lower than they sell it to us (the end consumer) in order for the FLGS to sell at the RRP and still turn a profit. If I buy my new Land Raider directly from GW, their profit margins go up from from about 25%, to 100%!!!

They are doing all this to encourage the FLGS NOT to stock their products, so we have to get it directly from them.

You can buy things at 25% off down here and the FLGS is still making a profit. GW wants that extra 25% and has it in their head that people will buy their product no matter what, meaning shutting down FLGS *in their minds* will simply drive people to buy direct. You can see this mindset in play in the new trade contracts they have given the FLGSs in the US.

So if GW Australia shuts down... where can we buy products from? We can’t buy from the US or the UK?

I guess they don’t want us as customers.

Well obviously you should go to GW online and pay $60 for shipping and will track what you buy

I didn't feel safe buying online, but now I do thanks to GW Online.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So if GW Australia shuts down... where can we buy products from? We can’t buy from the US or the UK?

I guess they don’t want us as customers.

I think GW must feel recasters are hard done by and want all Australians to start getting their models from recasters.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Would it be legal for GW to tell stores in the US who and where they can sell to?

Insofar as GW can stipulate it in the supply agreement and make it grounds to terminate the contract; yes.

If you want to sell GW stock then you adhere to that condition.

There is nothing in law that compells anyone to do business with anyone else.

Well I can say this couldn't have happened sooner! I for one am tired of those dirty Ozzies using their vast wealth (no doubt from illegal betting on kangaroo boxing matches) to buy goods from honest US and UK companies at artificially low prices. I say embargo those bastards down-under!

 Ozymandias wrote:
Well I can say this couldn't have happened sooner! I for one am tired of those dirty Ozzies using their vast wealth (no doubt from illegal betting on kangaroo boxing matches) to buy goods from honest US and UK companies at artificially low prices. I say embargo those bastards down-under!

No, no, no Ozy (what an ironic name!). Our vast wealth comes from our huge minimum wage. See, all prices - globally - are controlled by a country's minimum wage. This is why GW is so expensive in Australia, where the minimum wage is twice that of, say, the US, and why GW is so expensive in Brazil, where the minimum wage is 1/4th that of the US.

Wait...

hey hey hey ozy, its some of us crazies buying through america keeping the wheels turning over there (though i must say American minimum wage is rubbish) ill help support the economy over there
and do you realize how hard it is to effectively gamble on roo boxing? it cant be rigged like normal boxing..... so its hard work

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So if GW Australia shuts down... where can we buy products from? We can’t buy from the US or the UK?

I guess they don’t want us as customers.

If they did shut down GW Australia (which is a child company of GW UK), the stores would probably stick around, it's just that the corporate side and HQ would be shut down. That's what apparently happened in Canada. In that situation, management of the stores would probably fall to GW UK, or some regional office they'd set up, and Australians would see little difference from a retail perspective. How such an arrangement would work remains to be seen, if these changes happen at all.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Ozymandias wrote:
Well I can say this couldn't have happened sooner! I for one am tired of those dirty Ozzies using their vast wealth (no doubt from illegal betting on kangaroo boxing matches) to buy goods from honest US and UK companies at artificially low prices. I say embargo those bastards down-under!

No, no, no Ozy (what an ironic name!). Our vast wealth comes from our huge minimum wage. See, all prices - globally - are controlled by a country's minimum wage. This is why GW is so expensive in Australia, where the minimum wage is twice that of, say, the US, and why GW is so expensive in Brazil, where the minimum wage is 1/4th that of the US.

Wait...

Whats that solofalcon? I dont recognize your avatar.

On a serious note though, with the border controls up you're retailers and isolated people will have to order from GW themselves, and that just isnt smart, or sustainable in the slightest way. All this is going to achieve is fester the bitter hate people already have for the company.

 Kavish wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Retail markup on GW stock used to be 30%, although I'm about 10 years out of date there so it may have changed... so it's entirely possible that UK retail is lower than Oz wholesale.

But given that most games stores here sell at a discount to encourage any sales at all, once you factor in shipping and import duties (unless you're shipping in less than $1000 worth of stock at a time, which would be tedious) I can't see that being financially viable for a store.

A guy on youtube explained that if they sell to a FLGS they have to sell it a lot lower than they sell it to us (the end consumer) in order for the FLGS to sell at the RRP and still turn a profit. If I buy my new Land Raider directly from GW, their profit margins go up from from about 25%, to 100%!!!

They are doing all this to encourage the FLGS NOT to stock their products, so we have to get it directly from them.

If a guy on you tube told you that drinking draino was awesome and would give you super powers would you believe it?

Profit margin of 100%? WTF are you smoking? GW's profit margin selling through it's own stores is in all likelihood on par or even lower than sales through independents. Putting aside things such as manufacturing costs, warehousing costs and likely shipping to the store itself (are stockists charged for shipping? I'm assuming they would be) kits sold in GW stores have a multitude of extra costs associated with them. the big ones right off the top of my head for example would be:

Staffing costs (such as pay, training, benefits and anything else I'm not thinking of that's staff related)
Rental costs for the space
utilities such as electricity, water, etc.

All this eats into this 100% profit margin you speak of, selling product yourself is usually much more expensive then letting someone else do it, the upside of course being when you sell your product yourself you can control how it's sold and can be sure that it's being focused on which should lead to increased sales. What I mean by that is that an independent retailer is going to be selling dozens and dozens of different products and will not be focusing on yours. Hell you'll be lucky if they mention your product to 1/10 people that walk through their door. However with your own store you can make sure that everyone who walks in is introduced to your product in the best possible light which should lead to a greater volume of sales.....and since (despite what many here have been saying) GW's sales have increased (volume and revenue) since they started the brick and mortar stores it's obviously working.

As for GW Canada....GW Canada and GW USA were wasting money had over fist, GW Canada was apparently still making money buy they had as many or more managers (regional, area, whatever) as they did stores making them stupidly top heavy. GW USA was just plain losing money everywhere, so along comes Kirby apparently who takes on look at it and realizes it's effing stupid and so rolls GW Canada and GW USA into one entity known as GW North America, shuts down DOZENS of stores that were losing money hand over fist and began cleaning house as it were of managers that weren't doing their jobs right and were treating it like a clubhouse. On top of that he changed the pay structure for mangers to be a helluva lot fairer and be based on performance (AKA store revenue). Some managers in some major US cities were making a stupid amount of money while their stores were deep in the red while some of the most profitable stores in North America were paying their managers a pittance (like slightly above minimum wage levels).

To give you an idea, GW Canada had if I remember right between 30-40 staff at it's HQ in charge of maybe 20 stores.....it was seriously bloated and it's not like all the Canadian management staff were let go, a few went with to GW North America.

Chances are Australia is similarly bloated/in the red and might get rolled into a large regional HQ.

Orktavius wrote:

 Kavish wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Retail markup on GW stock used to be 30%, although I'm about 10 years out of date there so it may have changed... so it's entirely possible that UK retail is lower than Oz wholesale.

But given that most games stores here sell at a discount to encourage any sales at all, once you factor in shipping and import duties (unless you're shipping in less than $1000 worth of stock at a time, which would be tedious) I can't see that being financially viable for a store.

A guy on youtube explained that if they sell to a FLGS they have to sell it a lot lower than they sell it to us (the end consumer) in order for the FLGS to sell at the RRP and still turn a profit. If I buy my new Land Raider directly from GW, their profit margins go up from from about 25%, to 100%!!!

They are doing all this to encourage the FLGS NOT to stock their products, so we have to get it directly from them.

If a guy on you tube told you that drinking draino was awesome and would give you super powers would you believe it?

Profit margin of 100%? WTF are you smoking? GW's profit margin selling through it's own stores is in all likelihood on par or even lower than sales through independents. Putting aside things such as manufacturing costs, warehousing costs and likely shipping to the store itself (are stockists charged for shipping? I'm assuming they would be) kits sold in GW stores have a multitude of extra costs associated with them. the big ones right off the top of my head for example would be:

Staffing costs (such as pay, training, benefits and anything else I'm not thinking of that's staff related)
Rental costs for the space
utilities such as electricity, water, etc.

All this eats into this 100% profit margin you speak of, selling product yourself is usually much more expensive then letting someone else do it, the upside of course being when you sell your product yourself you can control how it's sold and can be sure that it's being focused on which should lead to increased sales. What I mean by that is that an independent retailer is going to be selling dozens and dozens of different products and will not be focusing on yours. Hell you'll be lucky if they mention your product to 1/10 people that walk through their door. However with your own store you can make sure that everyone who walks in is introduced to your product in the best possible light which should lead to a greater volume of sales.....and since (despite what many here have been saying) GW's sales have increased (volume and revenue) since they started the brick and mortar stores it's obviously working.

As for GW Canada....GW Canada and GW USA were wasting money had over fist, GW Canada was apparently still making money buy they had as many or more managers (regional, area, whatever) as they did stores making them stupidly top heavy. GW USA was just plain losing money everywhere, so along comes Kirby apparently who takes on look at it and realizes it's effing stupid and so rolls GW Canada and GW USA into one entity known as GW North America, shuts down DOZENS of stores that were losing money hand over fist and began cleaning house as it were of managers that weren't doing their jobs right and were treating it like a clubhouse. On top of that he changed the pay structure for mangers to be a helluva lot fairer and be based on performance (AKA store revenue). Some managers in some major US cities were making a stupid amount of money while their stores were deep in the red while some of the most profitable stores in North America were paying their managers a pittance (like slightly above minimum wage levels).

To give you an idea, GW Canada had if I remember right between 30-40 staff at it's HQ in charge of maybe 20 stores.....it was seriously bloated and it's not like all the Canadian management staff were let go, a few went with to GW North America.

Chances are Australia is similarly bloated/in the red and might get rolled into a large regional HQ.

Right and what he is saying is they will get 100% of the revenue rather than 55% which is a significant step up. (not a GW fanboy but a lover of the game)

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So if GW Australia shuts down... where can we buy products from? We can’t buy from the US or the UK?

I guess they don’t want us as customers.

NON_GW Product from China? it is not like GW is dissing its Australlian customers

No he said 100% profit, 100% profit and 100% revenue are totally different things, on top of that because the independents shoulder most of the biggest costs, selling to independents is probably more profitable than selling in their own retail stores.

Well i presumed he meant revenue rather than profit as that makes sense....

I learned long ago to stop assuming that when people say something dumb on the internet that they actually meant to say something that makes sense. Lets be honest....this thread turned GW potentially shutting down GW Australia and rolling it into a larger entity to GW pulling out of Australia entirely.

Regarding some of the fallout post closing GW Canada:

In the greater Vancouver area, there was 4-5 stores, all of which have close with a new one opening so there's only one anywhere near the area. In Victoria, the GW store was reduced to a one man store. Overall, at least on the west coast, GW has pretty much eliminated their presence (and some of those stores were traditionally very strong). On a quick scan, there's 5 GW stores west of Ontario (2 in Edmonton surprises me).

 ausYenLoWang wrote:
Well i presumed he meant revenue rather than profit as that makes sense....

Yes, but that means that you actually have made an effort to correctly interpret what other person has written and meant, instead of doing the usual internet thing and just jumping to the conclusion that allows you to launch on a meaningless tirade of your own... Please stop doing that!

Orktavius wrote:
I learned long ago to stop assuming that when people say something dumb on the internet that they actually meant to say something that makes sense.

And most of us learnt long ago to put die-hard GW apologists on ignore...

If apologist means I don't instantly decide that every decision GW makes is the stupidest thing in the world and spells the doom of the company (stuff die hard haters have been spouting off about since the introduction of slotted bases heralded the end) Then yeah, I'm an apologist.....and I'm not sorry about it. I don't agree with everything GW does, but I do see the business sense in the vast majority of it. Most of the things people have been calling 'terrible' business decisions of late would be heralded if done in other industries. I have no illusions about what GW is, they are a FOR PROFIT company whose prime responsibility is to it's shareholders and the bottom line so when they make a decision that obviously has the bottom line in mind I appreciate the business thinking behind it even if I don't neccesarily like it.

Regarding the west coast stores, some were in the red and shut down....as for what happened with the rest from what I head rent and leasing issues happened which is why for a while they actually kept a lot of the staff on doing projects (like terrain for games day) while they tried to get a new store up and running.

Rent in BC is stupidly high for retail space.

decker_cky wrote:
Regarding some of the fallout post closing GW Canada:

In the greater Vancouver area, there was 4-5 stores, all of which have close with a new one opening so there's only one anywhere near the area. In Victoria, the GW store was reduced to a one man store. Overall, at least on the west coast, GW has pretty much eliminated their presence (and some of those stores were traditionally very strong). On a quick scan, there's 5 GW stores west of Ontario (2 in Edmonton surprises me).

The Chinook center GW in E-town is actually one of the most profitable in the world, Chicago is nuts too, Last time I checked they were well ahead of their numbers.