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 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I hate unpainted armies with a passion. They show no love for the pretty miniatures.

Comments like this really bother me, but I understand you have no real ill will and I'm not holding it against you.

So I'll just get to a little story about a dear friend of mine who has been in the hobby for over a decade and painted a majority of his probably 40K points worth of IG. He loved painting too and had a nice little set up where he would paint said models. One of the nicest guys on the planet, if kindness was a crime he'd get the fast lane to the chair. He's the one that actually got me into the game. Long story short, nice guy who loves the game and has a lot of dedication to paint over 10K worth of platoons.

However my friend has several hinderances to his painting. He's old fashioned and likes dedicating time to make his models look nice, he is married and so has less personal time than really allowed, he's in the military and has long work hours, and of course his dominant hand was severely injured in the line of work making extended use painful.

For any one to tell me that man hasn't dedicated enough time and attention to the game, that he doesn't appreciate the hobby, or that you wouldn't enjoy playing him based on aesthetics of his toy soldiers I'd say to you that you have it the other way around. You are not worth his time.

Is this a single example? Absolutely. Is it always the case with an unpainted army? How should I know or more importantly why should I care? I prefer to judge someone based on the content of their character rather than the color of their army men. If someone is taking time out of their day to play a game with me, that's all I need to know and that's all I will care about it.

That being said, yes I do enjoy seeing painted armies. I love a nicely detailed and themed army, because I try to paint mine and do some conversions occasionally. Never would I place any restrictions or demands on another player. If you want to play against a fully painted army, why not just write his list up for him too since you're so interested in what your opponent is bringing.

It doesn't grind my gears, but I do love painted miniatures. Sure it takes time to paint them all, and it would be impossible for most folks to only field painted forces, but wouldn't it be swell? I think a great deal of GW's product is moved by the skill of the 'Eavy Metal team alone - boxes featuring gray plastic units on the front wouldn't have near the appeal - and that goes for on the tabletop as well. Of course I'll play an unpainted force! I think I'd always prefer players who are into painting as well. I don't think it's wrong to feel this way, it's part of what draws me into the hobby!

I don't place painting requirements on anyone. I prefer to have my stuff painted but its not for me to say wether yours should be or not. If somebody wants to play then I'm in.

I am not picky enough to refuse games or anything, but I will tell them to paint. I harass all of my friends to paint their armies.

"Dude, when are you gonna paint that"

"Do you need help for painting?"

"You should come use my supplies and paint that"

etc etc.

I'm lucky enough that warhammer world is my local store, and as you probably know they have countless gourgeous tables in a stunning venue. About 4 years ago before i took hobby hiatus they didn't allow you to play with models that weren't at least undercoated. That rule has now gone out the window for whatever reason and it is such a shame when you see HUGE armies of completly unpainted miniatures on some of the best tables you will see.

As for me - I REALLY want my Tau painted...but I also want to play. The painting theme I am doing is going to take a LONG time to do (Raver Tau - Blacklight paint in all the little lines on the models). I am also planning on buying the models in bulk when the new stuff comes out - I will atleast get them primed white...but the actual painting is going to take time - I may not like it...but it is how it is...

As for other people - the only things I don't allow my opponents to do, unless we are just playing a trial game like testing out listes or what not, is proxy a MODEL - weapon loadout is fine - but I have seen people say 'These marines are actually TH/SS Terminators and this leader guy is So-and-So'. It has nothing to do with WYSIWYG - but when you are playing a 1.5-2 hour game you will forget what people have and what a unit is - so having to constantly ask is going to drag the game out.

Also, at my FLGS, you can go in and sit and paint all day if you wanted. If I/someone was painting and wanted a game - I wouldn't care...everyone has limitations and such. At a tournament - it is all stated as per how things have to be - you don't have it - then gtfo....

I will play any body with models regardless of their paint status as I was one who for the longest time had no time to paint. I barely had time to put the models together. Now I have plenty of time to devote towards painting one model at a time. Heck I still haven't primed my LRC that I got over a year ago and I'm glad I haven't! As I recently converted from Black Templars to Dark Angels. The Black Templars were a spur of the moment thing and I liked the way they looked and I hadn't read any real rules about either army. After playing for about a year I made the change with the release of Dark Vengence thus the unpainted LRC was a LOT easier to convert.

As for playing against someone who has card board cut-outs I will have to decline that game. Encouraging that type of behavior will only lead to the down fall of the hobby. Why? Because the hobby depends on it's sales to keep it going and a majority of those sales are the sales of the armies. If I know that someone doesn't have an army and wants to play I will offer them up one of my armies to play as I have several that are good for different points levels and paint coverage.

I love painting, i love helping my buddys paint , but most importantly i like playing. Just have fun with your buds. I know everyone at my club has proxied or played with un painted and un assembled models before. Who cares? As long as fun is had and no friendships are destroyed then hell ill play against a bunch of grey headless orks or whatever. Oh and beer really helps.

I feel bad sometimes since I’m the guy at my FLGS that has the paint free army. I enjoy the play style of 40k, the mechanics of the gameplay, the background fluff, and the many ways that people can bring a single army to the table. The one thing that never really rang my bell was painting. I have no talent for it and seeing all my other members’ models at the store I would feel more ashamed of putting some ugly painted model on the table then just an unpainted one. To make up for it I always make sure I have WYSIWYG.

I keep telling myself to get some time to learn how to properly paint but I’ve always been more of a learner by hands on teaching than from watching the thousands of impressive tutorial videos out there to show you how to paint. If I don’t have someone to ask questions or get instant feedback from to ensure I am doing things properly I don’t want to risk waiting the time and energy on something that might be so awful that I don’t want others to see. Now the my IG army continues to grow, over 300 infantry models not counting vehicles and Heavy Weapon Teams, just seems like too much of a daunting hill to climb with the limited free time I have and total lack of painting skill and lack of hands on knowledge.

Would be disappointed if someone turned down a game with me because of it but that is their right and I won’t hold it against them. Painted or not I’m still there to have a fun game and make friends while I’m at it which I hope what other people are therefor to.

Of course it's nicer to play against and with painted minis, I don't think anyone will disagree on that. But it's not a huge distraction for me. Generally it's me with the unpainted ones, though. I'm not a good painter, so I have to take it slowly to achieve a quality I'm at least content with. I will NOT sacrifice on what little quality I can achieve just to get it done faster.

For example in the last two weeks I've painted 5 Sword Brethren, a Terminator Chaplain and 3 almost finished Neophytes. It's taken me the majority of my free time to accomplish this. And they're not even 100% ready in the sense that there'd always be more that could be tweaked, improved, etc. But I'm trying to get them at least to a decent tabletop level first, hopefully adding some extra touches later.

In any case, with being so slow, anywhere between 1 (Neophyte with no highlighting on black) to 10 hours (the Terminator Chaplain which I love the model of and so took extra extra care, or my first and favorite Ork Nob, of all things) per model completion rate for infantry models, and with me having around 15 000 points of models, it's bound to take a long long time until I can field fully painted armies. As it is, I have maybe 2000 points of Templars in a reasonably painted state, and even of those points a fair amount is from HQs (and the next 4 models on my to-do list are HQs as well). I'm also prioritizing my Templars as far as painting, so if I want play C:SM or even C:CSM or Orks (both of which still require a lot of assembly, not just painting) or perhaps my small IG allied contingent, there's bound to be a lot of gray on the table for a long time yet.

yes, unpainted armies grind my gears, but not for the reason you'd think...

I enjoy painting, but medical issues and time constraints have destroyed my will to keep painting. So my armies are 30% painted, primed sometimes at best. I wanted my whole army to look awesome, instead, they all look ragtag and incomplete, making my painted minis look even worse.

Amaraxis wrote:As for me - I REALLY want my Tau painted...but I also want to play. The painting theme I am doing is going to take a LONG time to do (Raver Tau - Blacklight paint in all the little lines on the models). I am also planning on buying the models in bulk when the new stuff comes out - I will atleast get them primed white...but the actual painting is going to take time - I may not like it...but it is how it is...

As for other people - the only things I don't allow my opponents to do, unless we are just playing a trial game like testing out listes or what not, is proxy a MODEL - weapon loadout is fine - but I have seen people say 'These marines are actually TH/SS Terminators and this leader guy is So-and-So'. It has nothing to do with WYSIWYG - but when you are playing a 1.5-2 hour game you will forget what people have and what a unit is - so having to constantly ask is going to drag the game out.

Also, at my FLGS, you can go in and sit and paint all day if you wanted. If I/someone was painting and wanted a game - I wouldn't care...everyone has limitations and such. At a tournament - it is all stated as per how things have to be - you don't have it - then gtfo....

You know, you don't need to use a tiny brush to put the Blacklight in. You can just slap it on first then use pseudo-drybrush techniques to paint the armour plates without getting any of that paint in the cracks.

You could also do an oil wash in the seems. It might be easier.

Unpainted - or even unprimed - miniatures don't grind my gears. You know what grinds my gears? Elitists and ass-hats, and a fair number have shown up in this thread.

If our versions of fun don't jive with each other, that's fine. But there is no reason to be a dick about it, or try to enforce your version of how-dedicated-you-should-be-to-the-hobby or how-you-should-paint-your-miniatures. It isn't fun for you to play someone with unpainted minis. No worries, but decline gracefully and don't be a douchebag about it. There are enough douchebags in RL, why bring that into a game?

Me as a painter take a ridiculously long time painting (probably due to my perfectionist style of painting), and I am in college with a major that slams me with 30+ hours of work per week at bad times. So I understand not having time. I like to see the progress made in painting your army, and I find people are generally happy when they can drop down a newly painted mini on the battlefield.
What I don't like is the guy who keeps buying new armies (like 11 total) and then in a way brags about never wanting to paint their minis. "This stormraven is used in 3 of my armies, along with these 2 LR that are in 5 of my armies." I just shake my head. No need for 11 armies if you are going to use certain units in each; just build up say half of them and then you will be able to paint them. This person is a poor sportsman ta boot (got caught cheating 1 time, and in general gets in bad moods and throws his stuff when losing, or gloat and laugh while you are getting demolished).
Don't get me wrong I like people getting creative with conversions, and I am cool with proxy armies (if they are cool and are used clearly/regularly s what they are). I feel for people who can't paint (time) and want to. But refusing to paint and holding back(threats) the group from doing things involving painting isn't cool (like scoring in tournaments and leagues, voting, etc.).
Sorry for the block of text. And roll with the game in a way that is funnest for you; whatever it is.

I play WHF the most and I dont bring an army to the table without the front ranks painted at least. In 40k it doesnt bother me that much but in WHF I see more or less just the back of my army so the painting is more a pleisure for my opponent and having a good painted army on the table and facing just undercoated ones would be a serious drawback for me. Though, there are many reason for people to not paint their armies but I dont like unpainted armies at all so I try to avoid them as good as possible. I mean, you can paint a rank&file model/marine in around 15minutes if you rush it and dont care too much on a good table top standard so at least the basic colours should be on the army after some time.

The person across from me at the table matters more than the paint (or lack therof) on his minis.

If they are a cool dude, then we'll probably have a cool game, whether his minis are grey, black, or masterfully painted.

I would love to have my minis painted. My problem is that my painting "skills" are so god awful that instead of seeing my army, there is an eyesore on the table to the point where people are scratching their heads trying to figure out why I let a 2 year old paint my models. To be fair, my 2 year old nephew could probably do a better job...
That and the fact I work 6 days a week and when I get out of work/my 1 day off I just want to relax and do nothing...

 Happyjew wrote:
I just want to relax and do nothing...

I find painting incredibly relaxing. I put on a podcast and before I know it it's time for me to go to bed.

I'm not sure how painting could be stressful, but maybe try painting for the hell of it, rather than because you want to get it done as quickly as possible. I find my best paint jobs are on the miniatures I don't care about getting on the table immediately. I picked up warhammer after a long hiatus because I wanted to relax and take my mind off work. Just so happened that I love playing the game too.

Paint or no paint, as long as I can make out what the unit is supposed to be I'm OK. Halfway assembled things are much worse IMO.

Chalkybot wrote:
I find it strange that in a hobby that is considered quite expensive that i see so many unpainted armies. For example i played a guy yesterday at my club who didn't have 1 painted model yet about 4000 points of marines. Now im a casual gamer and i understand that sometimes you cant have everything painted but i love the visual appeal of playing a fully painted army on a board with excellent terrain and i think a large amount of unpainted models detracts from this. What do you guys think, do you care about unpainted armies and is it common in your area? Is it just the appeal of buying that causes it?

Oh wow...another "do unpainted armies bother you?" thread...YAWN

Some people can't paint well so don't. Others have the choice of painting or playing, so choose playing when they have the time free. I've never let playing dictate my painting schedule, so all of my armies are in varying levels of completeness for paint. I have fully painted a half dozen large sized armies in my day: Undead, Imperial Guard, Daemonhunters/Grey Knights, Witchhunters/Sisters of Battle and a 3000+ point Tyranid horde, etc. All of them have also been sold off. My longest standing army, my khorne chaos marines, which I have been building and adding on to for the last 20+ years is never "complete". There are always newly converted figs being added to units that are otherwise fully painted, but I add lots of other items to the force too all the time. So it just keeps growing and unless I stick to my guns now of not really buying anything else for it, will never be fully painted. I say no more now, but I still keep eyeing up that Forge World greater Brass Scorpion model...it would look so cool painted up and sitting on the table next to my cauldron old armourcast cauldron of blood which I run as a counts as defiler.

As long as my opponents army is WYSIWYG I don't really worry about the paint much.

Skriker


Automatically Appended Next Post:

J0kerrMT wrote:
I have an idea to all those who "don't want to block the fun of others," lets play with all proxy armies...what would be the problem?

As for not having time to paint..I think you are confusing painting good with painting. To have a decent looking army..spray paint primary color...ink black...use one or two bold colors such as gold to paint over some areas such as shoulder trim..BAM! done. Not much time at all...and if can't afford 3 paints, 1 ink, and a can of spray paint..well, you might want to buy food instead of models.

Funny thing Joker is that you don't get to tell people how to paint their minis. I won't paint a mini in a chintzy way just to "call" it done, because it isn't done in my book. Luckily in this hobby I get to choose the standard to how I paint my minis based on my own abilities and it isn't dictated by others. Given that I have fully painted more armies than most people will ever have in their lifetime, if someone is going to complain that the minis I put on the table today for a newer army aren't fully painted, well then that is most definitely *their* problem...

Skriker

To me they are two separate entities. 1 is a hobby of painting and modeling little toy soldiers. the other is a wargame played between two or more players.

our game is very niche to be excluding anyone interested in playing by telling them they can never play without painted models. Some people simply can't afford the services provided to have them painted, while not capable of painting a single bit.

Others have a plan. They bought all their models, assembled, play and paint them as they go. Some people paint slow, but are not going to lose their fun over the years it will most likely take them to get them all painted. I've seen spray can armies and some people will prefer to just take their slow time and play with unpainted figs.

 Panzer1944 wrote:
I keep telling myself to get some time to learn how to properly paint but I’ve always been more of a learner by hands on teaching than from watching the thousands of impressive tutorial videos out there to show you how to paint. If I don’t have someone to ask questions or get instant feedback from to ensure I am doing things properly I don’t want to risk waiting the time and energy on something that might be so awful that I don’t want others to see. Now the my IG army continues to grow, over 300 infantry models not counting vehicles and Heavy Weapon Teams, just seems like too much of a daunting hill to climb with the limited free time I have and total lack of painting skill and lack of hands on knowledge.

Would be disappointed if someone turned down a game with me because of it but that is their right and I won’t hold it against them. Painted or not I’m still there to have a fun game and make friends while I’m at it which I hope what other people are therefor to.

The only way to learn is by doing. If you only watch videos or read books you really don't know how to do something. You just know how *others* do something. Buy yourself some cheap models off of ebay of differing types and just start painting away. You won't be perfect at first, but once you start *trying* the techniques you've been watching, you'll start to really learn how to do them. At 28mm scale painting is actually rather forgiving. You can acheive results with washes and dry brushing that you couldn't rely on in larger scales without looking muddied. The most important thing about painting is a steady hand and you learn that by doing also. A lot of the techniques are really very simple in practice and just require that steady hand and some consistency to look decent most of the time. You can't base your painting on that of others or you'll never paint anything. Even worse, don't expect to paint like the 'eavy metal folks any time soon either. I've been painting minis off and on for 30+ years and have never had enough time to get myself to that standard because I have a life and don't get paid to paint minis all day long to the exclusion of everything else.

One last suggestion, don't look at the whole of your force to paint. Just paint it one squad at a time. Eventually you will completely finish that IG army and you will be amazed. If you instead try to figure out how you are going to paint 300+ minis every time you look at it you will continue to do what you are already doing and never start. I had that problem with my 'nid horde. Not sure why with that army, but none of the others I have mind you, but that one I just couldn't get myself into a starting point and kept looking at the mass of it and never starting. Finally picked a unit of warriors and got started. Eventually the entire 3000+ point horde was done. IG are tough because the models are mostly the same, so what I would do when painting IG is paint a command squad and a couple of infantry squads, and then I would switch over and paint a unit of sentinels or a tank to break it up.

Skriker

skriker, that is some good advice. Hats off to you. I will try to put into practice myself (the going squad by squad part). I agree that just doing it works wonders. The models I paint now are vastly better then those that I painted when I first started (and I still have to do/work on my "advanced" techniques).

Joker... Cardboard cutouts?? Ok bud first off, pennies to pounds say I'm a damn sight better painter than you, secondly, to paint to the standard I set myself takes time, time is not something I have alot of between family, work and other hobbies.

How about we flip this around, I hate seeing terrible paintjobs, people who cannot.paint should not be allowed to play this game and must burn there models from shame, how dare they try and join MY hobby!!!

Like Skriker, I've been gaming for decades. In all of that time, across many different rulesets and periods, I have never put an unpainted miniature on the table. I have put some godawful ugly paintjobs on the table, especially when I was young, broke, and just learning how to paint.

For me, half the fun is looking at the models. That said, I would never comment on someone else's army, skill level, time commitment, or anything else that is frankly none of my business.

Now, if you want to play at my house you'll bring a painted army. Outside of my own space I am happy to get a game in with anyone regardless of the state of their army.

 Skriker wrote:

 Panzer1944 wrote:
I keep telling myself to get some time to learn how to properly paint but I’ve always been more of a learner by hands on teaching than from watching the thousands of impressive tutorial videos out there to show you how to paint. If I don’t have someone to ask questions or get instant feedback from to ensure I am doing things properly I don’t want to risk waiting the time and energy on something that might be so awful that I don’t want others to see. Now the my IG army continues to grow, over 300 infantry models not counting vehicles and Heavy Weapon Teams, just seems like too much of a daunting hill to climb with the limited free time I have and total lack of painting skill and lack of hands on knowledge.

Would be disappointed if someone turned down a game with me because of it but that is their right and I won’t hold it against them. Painted or not I’m still there to have a fun game and make friends while I’m at it which I hope what other people are therefor to.

The only way to learn is by doing. If you only watch videos or read books you really don't know how to do something. You just know how *others* do something. Buy yourself some cheap models off of ebay of differing types and just start painting away. You won't be perfect at first, but once you start *trying* the techniques you've been watching, you'll start to really learn how to do them. At 28mm scale painting is actually rather forgiving. You can acheive results with washes and dry brushing that you couldn't rely on in larger scales without looking muddied. The most important thing about painting is a steady hand and you learn that by doing also. A lot of the techniques are really very simple in practice and just require that steady hand and some consistency to look decent most of the time. You can't base your painting on that of others or you'll never paint anything. Even worse, don't expect to paint like the 'eavy metal folks any time soon either. I've been painting minis off and on for 30+ years and have never had enough time to get myself to that standard because I have a life and don't get paid to paint minis all day long to the exclusion of everything else.

One last suggestion, don't look at the whole of your force to paint. Just paint it one squad at a time. Eventually you will completely finish that IG army and you will be amazed. If you instead try to figure out how you are going to paint 300+ minis every time you look at it you will continue to do what you are already doing and never start. I had that problem with my 'nid horde. Not sure why with that army, but none of the others I have mind you, but that one I just couldn't get myself into a starting point and kept looking at the mass of it and never starting. Finally picked a unit of warriors and got started. Eventually the entire 3000+ point horde was done. IG are tough because the models are mostly the same, so what I would do when painting IG is paint a command squad and a couple of infantry squads, and then I would switch over and paint a unit of sentinels or a tank to break it up.

Skriker

I am in the hobby for painting so I am always sad when I see an unpainted army. But I would rather see a single well painted unit and the rest of the army bare than an army of sloppy minis that were clearly speed painted to get 3 colors on them.

Spetulhu wrote:
Paint or no paint, as long as I can make out what the unit is supposed to be I'm OK. Halfway assembled things are much worse IMO.

I actually think I'd refuse to play someone with unassembled models. I've never encountered that, so I have no idea how I'd even say that. Probably just end up playing them to avoid the awkward rejection.

I do like playing with/against painted miniatures. It's a part of the hobby - you know, why we play with little toy soldiers instead of cardboard chits.

That said, I'm not going to begrudge anyone who doesn't paint their miniatures, and I'm not going to come down on people who can't.

Actually, (and it's not 40k related, but bare with me), I enjoy playing against painted miniatures so much, that I painted all of my friends FoW Germans for him. We've gotten to the point where HE has more painted miniatures on the table then I do!

By golly, does it get my goat